Dual Opterons, yup, I am going crazy again...

[DanFraser]

Yep, time for an upgrade! This dual is getting a tad on the not so young side, and I want to get a big upgrade this time.

I want to go dual again, no way am I going single cpu EVER AGAIN! And, I am going to stay AMD.

OK, here's some prices I found:

AMD Opteron 242 S940 at around 780 USD.
Mobo, not too sure of.
Ram, 2GB (4x 512MB) Reg ram around 480 USD.

The mobo is the big factor, I want a mobo that can support most types of ram (I found a spec sheet for the MSI K8T800 and it only shows one type of Samsung ram, which is a little off-putting). I am limited in my options of being in the small fry computing country that is the UK. Options are very limited, and it is even a little hard to find Athlon dual boards. I have seen specs of the Tyan version, intruiging.

I found http://www.dabs.com/uk which has given me all this information. I will be upgrading in the next month (or six weeks) at the most. This site also gives me the option of payment via installments, which would help, as three payments would be easier (my card doesnt go up to the full asking price of my wishlist, lol).

If you want to say anything along the lines of don't bother, or wait, press that back button, not the reply button!

I want this upgrade now, and I will use the power of the upgrade, in Rendering, Distributed Computing, and other cpu intensive applications (like windows explorer, heh). Now remember to add a 64-bit OS if needed, or if I can get away with it, I would prefer to stay with XP Pro.

I am also thinking of a new Video Card. One of those ATI 9800 pro (or whatever the proper name is, not been in the ATI arena for a while) would do nicely.

And before anyone asks, this dual is going to be my server! lol!

So to cap it all, get searching on that dabs site, and recommend items for me to get! Though don't get too rudiculous on the price, something reasonable or this type of upgrade. So remember, cpu's, mobo, ram and video card!

[Cjwinnit]

Judging by the weak dollar you might be better off getting someone to buy it in the States for you and sending it over..

How much would a gig stick of RAM be next year?

[Arkaine23]

Might want to get a board that has 4 dimms/CPU, like the tyan. Although the good chipsets for Opterons have not come out just yet, so if you're dropping a lot of money now, you might want to consider waiting for SIS 755 or Nforce 3 -250. The current chipsets (Nvidia Nforce3 -150 VIA K8T800somthing or other) do not fully utilize the HT bus. Even waiting six months, you'd see some price drops and better chipset implementation.

That stuff aside, I'd go for the tyan. Just make sure you get teh one that has an AGP slot.

[everclock]

what server needs a Radeon 9800 Pro, u never mentioned gaming. And dont run a server on WinXP Pro, I hear Gentoo has a nice 64-bit version of linux that works great.

And I dont care what you will say, if you want to buy an Opteron board NOW, price better not be a big concern, or you will be disappointed. You are easily looking at over $2500 just for cpu mobo and ram, u still need vid card case hdd optical drives, opterons are expensive.

And dont expect much overclocking capabilities, u might find a board or two that will have decent overclocking, but it will lack other features you may want.

[DayUSeX]

yes try to run linux as that is really the best server option out there. I was in the same spot as you and i decided to hold off, as there really are no good motherboards out there that support overclocking/features i want. Especially after reading the article onf the front page of ocers.com i am all to happy that i am waiting for the next iteration of hammer. If you wait you can try out those tasty new pcix cards that ATI will be releasing with its new core, as well as a better north bridge.

[Skiing Squirrel]

If Dan is going crazy, then so am I. If you think about it the pricing is pretty competitive.
dual Socket A mobo-190
two 2400 mp's-250
registered ram-125 per 512

opteron dual mobo (msi)-195
two 240's- about 400
registered ram-125 per 512

an opteron rig is only about 200 bucks more than a socket a rig, and much faster.

Im just trying to defend dan against the opteron haters :p

I want to follow this thread because finally someone else is going opteron.

[cmcquistion]

You must be referring to the MSI K8T Master2-Far, as that is the only dual Opteron board in that price range (lowest Pricewatch price is $222.)

Keep in mind that MSI board is the lowest end of the Opteron dual boards. It doesn't offfer 66 MHz or 64 bit PCI slots. It has non-standard heatsink mounts, so I'm not sure what heatsinks you can use with it, other than the heatsinks that come with the motherboard and it has less memory capacity than every other dual Opteron board that I've seen.

Almost every other dual Opteron board costs over $400.

[DaveB]

You're not dealing with the fact that Skiing Squirrel is comparing to a dual socket A setup.

[DanFraser]

Originally posted by everclock
what server needs a Radeon 9800 Pro, u never mentioned gaming. And dont run a server on WinXP Pro, I hear Gentoo has a nice 64-bit version of linux that works great.

It's not going to be a server, this dual (in my sig) shall take that role. I have been running a server with XP Pro for 1 and a half years, with uptimes of 3 months, don't slate what works. I may think about Linux though (anyone says Mandrake and I'll kill ya!)

Originally posted by everclock
And I dont care what you will say, if you want to buy an Opteron board NOW, price better not be a big concern, or you will be disappointed. You are easily looking at over $2500 just for cpu mobo and ram, u still need vid card case hdd optical drives, opterons are expensive.

I dearly hope you mean canadian dollars there my friend, as this will only cost me around 1600 USD after tax and delivery. I already have all the other parts, this is an internal UPGRADE.

Originally posted by everclock
And dont expect much overclocking capabilities, u might find a board or two that will have decent overclocking, but it will lack other features you may want.

Who said anything about overclocking?

Not to flame you, but take more time to read posts, and don't hit that reply button before thinking about what you are going to say.

Originally posted by cmcquistion
You must be referring to the MSI K8T Master2-Far, as that is the only dual Opteron board in that price range (lowest Pricewatch price is $222.)

To be honest, I have struggled to find anything else available in the UK. I am looking towards this or the Tyan if I can find it. The MSI, why? I like the solidness of the K7D, and am thinking that surely its not going to absolutely dire.

Originally posted by cmcquistion
Keep in mind that MSI board is the lowest end of the Opteron dual boards. It doesn't offfer 66 MHz or 64 bit PCI slots. It has non-standard heatsink mounts, so I'm not sure what heatsinks you can use with it, other than the heatsinks that come with the motherboard and it has less memory capacity than every other dual Opteron board that I've seen.

I dont actually have anything that needs 66MHz or 64bit slots, and at this rate, may not for a while. It appears that There are a few heatsinks that can be used. I was expecting to have to get new heatsinks with a new socket design.

Originally posted by cmcquistion
Almost every other dual Opteron board costs over $400.

Ya, I know, makes it darn hard shopping, lol.

Thanks for all your posts. And that was one heck of a quoting session, lol.

[Skiing Squirrel]

Originally posted by DaveB
You're not dealing with the fact that Skiing Squirrel is comparing to a dual socket A setup.

Right. I am comparing two enthusist motherboards. Not a highend socket A vs a lowend opteron, but just two regular mainstream motherboards. And who said anything about using 66mhz pci slots? To be honest, I don't ever use any of those. Frankly, people who would be buying a cheap motherboard probably don't have the cash to spend 500 dollars on a scsi raid settup. That is the only thing where 66mhz slots would come in handy (but correct me if I'm wrong). Dan, from what I am getting at is you're just using this rig for an assortment of things, right?

[everclock]

Originally posted by DanFraser

Who said anything about overclocking?

Not to flame you, but take more time to read posts, and don't hit that reply button before thinking about what you are going to say.


Last I heard this was still the overclockers forum, so I doubt anyone has a problem with me assuming u might want overclocking features. Just because I included the extra info, doesnt mean u need to critisize me for it.

Second of all, in my opinion, you DID flame me. Maybe next time you try NOT to flame someone, "don't hit that reply button before thinking about what you are going to say." Don't criticize people for trying to help. Thats a great way to get ignored, and in this case, lose respect. Good luck finding a decent dual opteron system for $1600, I don't think I could do that. More power to you if you can.

Next time you don't like a post, just ignore it. I didnt say anything derogatory towards you, I was just trying to help.

[cmcquistion]

Let's watch our words here, folks.

I don't think anyone intended to flame anyone else, but let's all be more careful with our wording, ok?

[everclock]

ok

[Mr.Guvernment]

the MSI cuts the memory banwidth in HALF because CPU1 has to go through CPU0 to access raw memory - this kind of defeats one of the greatest features of the opteron! MSi has good boards - but this is not one of them.

deinfetly go Tyan if you are truely being serious about a dual opteron.

i myself will be buying a dual opteron system - but am going to wait till Q1 next year to see what new things come out and to see if they will come out with 2.4op's and higher.

[Xtc4u]

Tyan Thunder K8W is an awesome board. I've had one since October and its been a great performer and has been solid. I do a lot of video editing some graphics and other various things with it. Running Windows XP SP1 and I've only had to reboot after installing new programs. It can also take various ram chips and even supports PC3200. I've started dabbllin with Linux just to learn it and I ran Gentoo with only slight issues. Not sure if I help or not but figured I'd put up the Option.

[DanFraser]

Thanks guys, though you must have dredged a few pages to find this one!

This will have to be put off for about a month longer than I planned. Some lowlife pain in the backside nicked my bike on friday (19th) and now I have no transport to work. I need to replace it as walking 8 miles a day is killing me.

[Surfeit00]

Thats going to be a really nice rig whenever you get it.

Hope you crunch SETI or fold

[Mr.Guvernment]

that sucks! dam crooks!


well - bets to wait in my opinion anyways too see what new stuff will be out to drop the prices of current stuff :D

[Xtc4u]

^^^ Yep

[mateo]

I'd save up just enough for 244s, they seem to be the best in terms of price/performance, and they're the newer C stepping, so you can use PC3200. Corsair's Reg XMS3200 is sorta cheap now, too. I'd definitely go w/ a board w/ 64bit PCI, either the IWill or Tyan (melikes the IWill)- if you're this far, you might as well go the distance.

[DanFraser]

Yeah, it does suck having my bike nicked. I am having one problem with getting this stuff though. The Country where I live. Yep, the UK. So far, I have only found the MSI dual motherboard, and after several other suggestions, it would appear I should stay away from that. Does anyone know of somewhere where it might be possible to get a hold of one of these other motherboards? Even having to email the company to specially order it would do...

[dippy_skoodlez]

here ya go man.. I went to tyans webpage, found the mobo (think its right anyways) and clicked "where to buy" 8)

http://www.tyan.com/products/html/europe.html#unitedkingdom

at the very bottom it has soem UK places to buy.

[David]

Hope this helps:

www.komplett.co.uk

Opteron 242s @1.6GHz = £264.38 each
MSI K8T Master-2 = £164.50

www.dabs.com

Opteron 242s @1.6GHz = £269.99 each
MSI K8T Master-2 = £175.00

Might save a wee bit of money by going to Komplett.

Im going dual AMD64 CPUs as well, but not till next year.

[Col_Loki]

These guys are based in germany, the website can be changed to english and they have a good selection of dual motherboards...

http://www.computeruniverse.net/

They deliver to europe AFAIK, worth checkin them out i think..

Loki

[DanFraser]

OMG!! Thanks guys!!

EDIT: It appears I want the Thunder K8S (S2880)

[Xtc4u]

The K8S only has onboard video. No AGP slot to add a 9800 on to it.

whooops I meant AGP slot not VGA. Too much partying this season.

[DanFraser]

DOH! Thanks for pointing that out! Gonna have to look a little closer, lol.

[Xtc4u]

For a dual OPteron with AGP by Tyan it looks like the Tiger K8W(2875) or Thunder K8W(2885)

[Krowa 02]

Deffinetly go with a Tyan board.

Not only will you be happy, your going to be SO happy that your probably going to think your on some kind of trip and your going to get even happier because its not ending.

Im probably going to hold off on a socket A dualy and just wait on a opteron, and judging by your guts to do it, your giving me more inspiration ;).

[BigL]

Mobo: Tyan Thunder K8W (S2885) - £387
CPU: Opteron 242s - £270 each 240s - £175 each (is the extra 200MHz worth the £95 difference :confused: )
Mem: Somewhere else, unless you try the Corsair ECC 2700, but no ECC 3200 available here!! :(

from www.aria.co.uk (http://www.aria.co.uk) based in Manchester, P&P around £10, and quite a good selection :D.

If you put in a request they may be able to get you the tiger version (S2875) as a one off!! :rolleyes:


Just thought this might help!! :)

England isn't all bad, just abit slower with the new technologies!! ;)

When the price of a rig drops into the £400 mark, i may jump on board, but until then good luck!!

[DanFraser]

Thank you BigL, that is one great find! Will certainly take it into account when I come to actually buying the stuff. Just have to work out all the shipping costs etc, and then decide how and who I buy it from!

[pingrico]

hey DanFraser how's it going. this is my first post to this community. i've been working on a spec for a dual processor system for my personal use for the last couple of weeks. it all started when i picked up a pc hardware magazine around january and realized i had better get current with technology - a task i don't mind at all.

here's what i have on my desk in boxes atm
- (1) K8T Master2 FAR
- (2) AMD Opteron 246 cpus
- (1) CORSAIR XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 2GB(1GBx2) ECC Registered DDR PC-3200
(will add a second 2GB twinpack when the price comes down maybe)
- (2) Western Digital WD740 Raptor hard disk drives
- (1) Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum sound card
- (1) Creative GigaWorks S750
- (1) MGE UV Acrylic Case
- (1) POWMAX Demon 580W Power Supply, Model PSDE580
(i'm a little concerned about the quality of this $32 u.s. dollar product i bought without seeing in person first. $32?)


here's what's in the pipe to get ordered sometime soon:
- Asetek Antarctica WaterChill CPU Cooling Kit
- Asetek Antarctica water block
- Asetek WaterChill Modified Black Ice Pro II
- PVC Blue Tubing (why not)*
- MSI MS-P8452M X52 DVD 16x + CD-RW 52x24x52x Combo Drive
- Kensington Turbo Mouse Pro - Wireless*
- Blue Illuminated Black Keyboard*
- Viewsonic VP201B
* might as well make it look different

as far as a video card, haven't decided yet between the
- RADEON_ X800 XT Platinum Edition
or the
- GeForce 6800 Ultra video card

i intend for it to be dual bootable (if i can, using sata raid array i'm not sure) win 2k adv svr or 2003 server for work related sql benchmarking and winxp pro for personal use.


the first item in the list is the K8T Master2 FAR motherboard. i picked it up at a local electronics store after some research on it. it's very clean, sans a bizzare cpu cooler arrangement. it might be a point of confusion, but no matter, i intend to liquid cool this system if i can.

i'm not exactly at that point yet. i'd like to go with the Asetek Antarctica WaterChill CPU Cooling Kit and modify it to accomodate for dual opteron 246 cpus. if i could get my hands on a antarctica block to see if two would fit on it, or, find on the web a build like mine, i could carry on. but at present i can't. suggestions would be appreciated from anyone in the know, but here's what i've come up with on my own. should anyone from ansetek read this thread a little feedback would be appreciated )

modified Asetek Antarctica WaterChill CPU Cooling Kit (http://www.b3de.com/cooling_solution.htm)

in any case, here's a mental image of what i was going for (http://www.b3de.com/dream.htm).

[Mr.Guvernment]

^^^

if u get 2003 - no reason to dual boot with XP - server can do all that Xp can and more!


As for vid card right now my vote is in ATi side - simply due to rumour of NVIDIA already possibly releasing "optimized *cough* cheating *cough* drivers for their 6800's. :( - i would of thought they learned their lesson with the FX line - anyways - awaiting some image quality tests to be posted to hlp[e clear up any roumours.


Myself i am waiting until intel releases their Xeon 800FSB chips later this Quater or early Q2 sometime and see how they perform - it looks like AMD wont be releasing a new opteron chip till Q4 - but then again - they are supposedly making dual core opterons next year which will be fully comaptible with todays opteron mobo's!

[BigL]

I second the ati vote as they run cooler (asus looks good), but are you going to water cool your graphics as well?

If you get the HL2 pack you can sell the game on ebay for a recoup of cost, unless you want it for yourself!! :)

Good luck with the rig, perhaps you should get youself a normal sata hard drive as storage, controllers are about £15 here, must be really cheap over there! :D

Wonder if SP2 has sorted out the ocasional problem with XP booting on striped arrays, and the corruption of registry files after quick or forced shut downs / resets. :rolleyes:

[Audioaficionado]

Iwill is coming out with a new nForce3 250 that has AGP/PCI lock if for some crazy reason you decide to OC in the future. It's the DK8N. It will be AGP of course. However there will be two releases of PCI-Express after that. DK8E & DK8E2.

BTW AMD is dropping the prices of their Opterons well over 30% so you might want to wait for these developments before you buy.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/07/amd_opteron_price_cuts/

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_609,00.html

[liquidtrance123]

would dual 1.4ghz opterons be anywhere near the speed of dual 2.4ghz xeons?

[liquidtrance123]

Also when did intel first start adding hyperthreading to the xeons? 2.0 or 2.4?

[BigL]

I thought the hyperthreading started at 2.6GHz???

Could be wrong!

[new_novice]

I have just what you need in my sig. it takes this 3200 OCZ just fine, I mounted a tornado on the provided heatsink just fine too, 2 gigs of memory is enough for now, but if you can I'd rather get at least a 244 or 246 if possible, to me 242 is a bit lacking even though I have it running at 1.7 Ghz.

[darthdana]

i agree, just load windows server 2003, 64bit if you can find the drivers and be done with it.

If it was me, not that I follow my advice, get something with NUMA, such as the Tyan, or what not, and buy the 250's, this is where the Opterons are starting to catch a move. If you go with Windows 64, go with 8 or more gigs of ram, it will cache most of anything you are doing for the day.

[Mr.Guvernment]

^^^ 250's are out now??? woo hooo 2.4ghz?

liquidtrance123 a 1.4 no for a 2.4 xeon, not liekly maybe the 1.8 vs 2.4 xeon - also depends on what - video encoding? compressing?

with all the reviews i read it was not until the 2ghz / 2,2ghz where opterons started to whip past xeon 3ghz systems in all areas.