Celerons, 1Ghz, and all that ???

[leep]

Hi ,


I`m new to overclocking and have a few questions -

1) I`m considering upgrading my 350Mhz PII 440BX Slot 1 (66-133 FSB) board by obtaining a Celeron (plus adaptor) 667Mhz (66Mhz FSB) and raising the frontside bus to 100Mhz (the reason being I hope to scrape 1 Ghz). How likely am I to obtain the magical 1 Ghz figure with a Celeron ?

2) Steppings are slightly confusing for me - the cC0 stepping of the Celeron apparently sometimes refuses to boot with BX boards because a "split-plane" is necessary for a core voltage of 1.7 (Intel say - "These processors implement independent Vtt and Vcccore power planes" on their website), would this be addressed by a Slot 1 adaptor ? If not is the C0 stepping still available ?

3) My memory is PC100 and if I could obtain 1Ghz surely the processor would simply spend much of it`s time waiting to read/write using the system`s bus i.e. the extra clock cycles would be wasted ?

4) Assuming that 1Ghz is feasible/useful what cooler should I be using to obtain this (has to be mounted on the adaptor) ?

5) If it can`t be done with a Celeron what cheapish Intel chip would you suggest to obtain 1Ghz+ again assuming that that clock speed is of any real benefit ?

6) One of the reasons I`m looking to upgrade is that there may be some low cost cards coming out that basically use the CPU to decode and display digital TV signals (I think the Hauppauge Nova card, available here (UK) soon I believe, does this for digital satellite transmissions - Internet/TV/radio e.g. min. 233Mhz for data/ min. 500 Mhz for TV). Does the Celeron suffer from poor multimedia (MPEG really I suppose) processing compared to the the Pentium III and IV ?


Any help would be much appreciated, as I said I am a complete novice when it comes to overclocking.


Regards,


Leep

[Tim-]

The optimum celeron chips for overclocking are the lower multiplier versions. It seems that the cc0 stepping 600 is turning out to be the best of the current lot. Your chances of getting near 1GHz would be better than with the 667. The split plane issue hasn't turned out to be a problem for anyone that I'm aware of.

PC100 ram is sufficient for most celeron projects, however would need to be replaced for PIII use. For processor intensive applications such as video processing and editing, the PIII is a better choice.
The celerons are inexpensive so it would be worth trying, and if it doesn't suit your application, you can easily sell it and move to the PIII.

The Alpha PEP66 is one of the best slotket adaptor heatsinks.

[leep]

Thanks for your help.

My board will only take PC100 memory so I`m not sure about the benefits of raising the FSB above 100Mhz e.g. with a PIII. Also am I wrong about clock cycles simply going to waste with limited peripheral (i.e. RAM) speeds ?

Leep.

[batboy]

Ok, I'm not an expert, but since some of your questions are basic and I have some Celeron O/C experience, I'll give it a shot. Others can fill in the blanks or correct me if I'm wrong.

1) You might have to flash the BIOS with an upgrade in order for the motherboard to use the newer, faster CPU chips. Check your manual to see what chips are supported. Also, I've read that only 10-15% of the Celerons will overclock to 1+ GHz, and that's doing everything right with cooling and voltage.

2) I don't know much about the cCO stepping except that it's the newest version (I think) and that it seems to overclock the best so far. No troubles that I'm aware of with this stepping. Most slocket adapters work good.

3) The PC100 RAM should work as long as you don't try pushing much past 100 MHz bus speed. Better memory might increase your odds of O/C success though. I don't know if there is a bottle neck at this speed on the bus, but I doubt if there's much. The harddrive will still be what the CPU waits for the most, in my opinion.

4) Coolers are often a matter of preference, but it's hard to go wrong with an Alpha PEP setup (works with the slocket adapter). Cooling is critical if you wanna dance at 1 Gig. Lots of the guys are using peltier or water cooling to increase their O/C odds.

5) The odds of reaching 1 GHz are better if you use a P-III 700e chip (what about the 750e?). But, as you suggested, is it really worth it or practical to break the 1 GHz mark? Well, probably not. It's more like a hurdle or a goal for us overclockers. I want the bragging rights of being the first of my buddies to do it, so I can gloat. I'm running an overclocked C566 at 850 right now. Honestly, it'll do everything that the 1 GHz rigs can do, just a few nanoseconds slower.

6) The P-III chips have more L-2 cache (twice as much I think) than the Celerons, so if the clock speeds were the same, a P-III would slightly out perform a Celeron. The cost is where the big deciding factor cames in. Hope this helps.

[kunsunoke]

Leep:

IMHO the Celeron II 667 is a worthwhile overclocking project. I have a system now running with this chip at this speed (1030 MHz, actually) & it is stable even for 3D gaming applications. You will need to take the usual precautions first, however.

If you are going to oc to 1 GHz:

1) Make sure your board can handle the CPU microcode & voltage & that you have a CuMine compatible Slocket adapter (e.g. Abit Slotket !!!; MSI 6905 v.2). Even if your motherboard manufacturer doesn't officially support the Celemine, you may still be able to get away with it if you use one of the better slocket adapters. However, your best shot is with a cumine compatible board with lots of overclocking features (tweakable BIOS, voltage settings, etc.).

2) Try to get a cCO-stepping 667. The S-codes for these are SL4NZ (boxed; same as mine) and SL4P9 (OEM). These are more tolerant of high voltage & high temperature than the cBO steppings (SL4AB and SL48E). This may be due to the split-plane thing you were talking about. Mine requires only 1.85 volts (0.15 above spec.) for stability at 100 FSB.

3) By all means, get a decent S370 heat sink and fan and some Arctic Silver thermal paste to go with it. Your CPU will require extra voltage to run at 100 FSB & so you will need an above average thermal solution. I am running a Thermaltake Golden Orb with Arctic Silver & my CPU temperature has been maxing out at 43 deg. C under load... so far. Might want to check out offerings from Global Win or Alpha as well - they should cool significantly better than the Tt Gorb, albeit at significantly higher prices. Stay away from active (Peltier-effect) cooling for now.

4) Get some blowholes cut in your case. You will have to get heat away from the board and CPU as quickly as possible & the best way to ensure you don't have a heat buildup problem is through adequate ventilation. Also, consider replacing your existing case fans with higher speed / cfm versions - Panasonic & YS Tech make some nice 80 mm. fans now.

5) Wouldn't worry so much about the PC100 if it is CAS-2 & has decent chips (Micron, Infineon, Kingmax, etc.). However, PC133 CAS3 or CAS2 is fairly low in price at present & should give a nice boost to overall system stability.

6) General rule of thumb is that Celeron IIs perform about as well as the Pentium III CPU with about 100 fewer MHz. In other words, if there were such a chip, the 1000 MHz C-II would perform like a P-III / 900 MHz. The Celeron II CPUs are pretty good with the graphics - nearly as good as P-III. P-4 is out of range of most people's wallets.

Good luck,

k

[Mr B]

The Celeron II cC0 600 is a fairly readily available chip, and is ripe for overclocking. You might be looking at a major system overhaul, though. I'm not familiar with the mb you currently have, and therefore don't know it's compatibility with the CeleMines.

Here's what I have, where I got it, and how much I paid, and lastly, how it runs. Hope this will help you decide if you want to go for it.......=)

(all prices INCLUDE shipping)

A-Trend ATA V931-CX0 Slot 1/Socket 370 (both) VIA Apollo Pro 133 chipset (e-BAY, $65.00)

cC0 600 MHz Celeron II, Soltek SL02A++ slocket (Celemine compatable, for vcore voltage adjustment), and ThermalTake Golden Orb (e-BAY, $131.00)

128 MB PC133 7.5ns SDRAM (e-BAY, $53.00)

This setup is running @ 945 MHz with the vcore set at 1.85 v. I'm expecting the Arctic Silver in the mail in a couple of days, at which point, I'll push it harder. (I had it up to 990 MHz @ 2.05 v for a while, but didn't want to push it too hard w/out the Arctic Silver)

These chips are all over the place at e-BAY, some pre-tested up to and over 1 GHz. But like the previous post says, my 945 is the equivalant of a P III 1050.

But a LOT cheaper.....=)

Good luck with whichever choice you make!

Mr B