View Full Version : Are my eyes playing tricks on me??????
Kenshiro
12-21-03, 11:41 PM
This is the story. My friends and I linked up our computers for some old fashion network gaming. We played a few games, Unreal tournament 2003, Call of Duty, and Halo.
I had a very huge surprise when we played halo. Basically, there are 5 computers linked up to the LAN. Its hard to state spec for all the rigs, but these are the video cards.
ATI 9800 Pro 128 MB
ATI 9800 non pro 128MB
XFX5900 non ultra 128MB (My card)
EVGA 5900 non ultra 128MB
ATI 9600SE non pro 128MB
I think Halo runs smoother in all the ATI cards. Yes, that will include the 9600SE. There might be a twist to that 9600SE card. There is a marking on the card itself indicating it as the 9600 pro.
So, as a recommendation, if you want to "prepare" for future games, get the ATI. I'm kind of upset that I had invested $180 on my FX5900 non ultra after seeing that.
Everyone, please feel free to write your comment.
Sorry you wasted ypur money on that garbage card. :eek: Oh well, better start saving up for r420 or nv40.
ManOfKnight
12-21-03, 11:43 PM
first do you have the latest detonators? the 5900 should keep up with a 9600 easily in Halo...is your system as fast as the system with the 9600? there are a lot of questions...but to ATI's credit they do make awesome cards
Kenshiro
12-22-03, 11:06 AM
I will say my rig should be equivalent to the one using the 9600.
We are both running AMDs, but I have the 1800+ overclocked to 2.26Ghz, while he is running stock with 2500+ barton. I do have the better mobo though.
I have to say that the rumors of Nvidia running slower than the ATI in DirectX 9 games are true. I have seen it myself.
DON'T GET NVIDIA, GET AN ATI.
micamica1217
12-22-03, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by Kenshiro
I will say my rig should be equivalent to the one using the 9600.
We are both running AMDs, but I have the 1800+ overclocked to 2.26Ghz, while he is running stock with 2500+ barton. I do have the better mobo though.
I have to say that the rumors of Nvidia running slower than the ATI in DirectX 9 games are true. I have seen it myself.
DON'T GET NVIDIA, GET AN ATI.
I've been saying the same thing for quite some time...
yet even reasonable people seem to disagree with me.
the sad thing is that what we are seeing is games that are only using a small amout of PS and VS 2.0....
as games start to use more and more DX9.0 features, I feal that the nVidia FX users will have to be blind not to notice.
mica
Kenshiro
12-23-03, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by micamica1217
as games start to use more and more DX9.0 features, I feal that the nVidia FX users will have to be blind not to notice.
mica
I guess most of them are like me. Some are hardcore nvidia fans, other's probably jump into great nvidia deals like I did. Its until you see the difference when you have 2 cards running the same game side by side, then you are truely able to tell ATI rule the current directx 9 domain.
I won't recommend getting ANY nvidia cards now. Their N40 chipset should be able to resolve their current problem with directx9, but i will still wait for tomshardware or extremetech to review their products before buying them.
micamica1217
12-23-03, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Kenshiro
I guess most of them are like me. Some are hardcore nvidia fans, other's probably jump into great nvidia deals like I did. Its until you see the difference when you have 2 cards running the same game side by side, then you are truely able to tell ATI rule the current directx 9 domain.
I won't recommend getting ANY nvidia cards now. Their N40 chipset should be able to resolve their current problem with directx9, but i will still wait for tomshardware or extremetech to review their products before buying them.
THG can at times be very biased towards nVidia...
the same can be said with anandtech.com
I'd wait untill you see people here rave about the new cards.
we don't lie.
we may not like the truth from time to time, but we don't lie.
also start reading over at beyond3d.com....you'll thank me.
mica
Kenshiro
12-23-03, 10:53 AM
Frankly speaking, I was denial during the beginning. I thought Nvidia's real problem is with their drivers, not the hardware. So, when I see a great deal on their FX5900 non ultra, I jumped right on it. You got to admit, for $176 (the actual price I paid for it), it is a great deal. But I would have spend $100 more and be happy with it. This is my personality. Needless to say, now I truely believe that it's their hardware giving them the problems to write their software. I guess I will wait until true directx9 games comes out, I will switch to a better card.
ATi has won this little battle...good job u didn't post this in the ATi forums :p....hahaha
Your eyes are playing tricks on you.
Kenshiro
12-23-03, 05:07 PM
I wish it is, but that is what i saw.
Originally posted by blurry
Your eyes are playing tricks on you.
Then you must be blind then...
Sir Barton
12-23-03, 06:37 PM
i havent compared ATi with nvidia side by side, but my buddy just bought a BBA 9600XT...and honestly, it makes my card look like a Ti4200 on steroids. halo looks sooooooo much better with his card. i wish i wouldve gotten the ATi now. its not a that big of a deal for me, because when i got this card i was in desperate need as my Ti4800 crapped on me, and this was the next best thing i could find at the time. well, you takes your chances and you pays your money....lesson well learned, the hard way. i dont hate nvidia, im still happy with my card....but its like buying a mustang with a 6 cyl....it looks good on paper, but has lackluster performance.
PreservedSwine
12-23-03, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Sir Barton
i dont hate nvidia, im still happy with my card....but its like buying a mustang with a 6 cyl....it looks good on paper, but has lackluster performance.
LOL:clap: :beer:
Sir Barton
12-23-03, 07:25 PM
it also ticks me iff because the time span between 5600 and 5700 cards is ~6mo. or so. youd think that over that period of time, nvidia could have made their architecture more DX9 compatible.
Originally posted by Excelsior
Then you must be blind then...
The typical ati fanboy...
The Coolest
12-24-03, 11:03 AM
not to start a flame war, but same could be said about u.
Unless you have seen both cards in action side by side I think that Kenshiro is the better judge of his own eyes than you
Originally posted by blurry
The typical ati fanboy...
Lets not start a flamewar here. If someone thinks that, in their opinion, the image quality on ATi is better than NVidias then they are perfectly entitled to express this and share their views. Calling them blind is pure fanboyism.
In an attempt to lighten this thread up.....
http://www.davidjnelson.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fanboyriffic.jpg
Ya know...that blonde is pretty cute....:p
dippy_skoodlez
12-24-03, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Evnas
Ya know...that blonde is pretty cute....:p
thats what i was thinkin:D
is HALO the only game you guy played at that LAN game? How about run soem other game and see....
I heard and saw report of ATI card having problems with NFS: Underground and such....
Some people like ATI
Some people like Nvidia
I like whatever cheap and run smooth on most game I played (buggy in 1 or 2 or 3 games does not hurt much as long as it runs rather than crashed)....
PS: that leadtek 5600U I am using costed me 99buckurus US from newegg (refurbish item) but work great at OC speed 385/890Mhz from 350/700Mhz....:D
Originally posted by MaxTem
I heard and saw report of ATI card having problems with NFS: Underground and such....
What kinda problems? Ive had none so far...i was damn addicted to that game for a while, lol
Ya know...that blonde is pretty cute.... she's only blond on top. Back on the topic. I love my 97pro and I haven't yet felt the need to OC it. I play UT2K3, Tacops, still play some AOM, and watch movies on it. It runs smooth for me. cost a bundle tho, but worth it if I never worry about it. IMHO
micamica1217
12-26-03, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Evnas
Ya know...that blonde is pretty cute....:p
I didn't know you were into little boys.:p
j/k
mica
Originally posted by micamica1217
I didn't know you were into little boys.:p
j/k
mica
Pff...shes no fanboy...shes a seksiefanchica :D
Originally posted by ManOfKnight
first do you have the latest detonators? the 5900 should keep up with a 9600 easily in Halo...is your system as fast as the system with the 9600? there are a lot of questions...but to ATI's credit they do make awesome cards
You need to listen to this man. Sure the shader performance of the FX series is not as good as the ATIs, but that is not the problem with your halo results. Here is a test from xbit-labs.com, and it clearly shows that a FX5900 with the latest drivers can indeed perform very well in Halo. Xbit labs is the most technically astute and unbiased source of performance testing I have seen. And they in general strongly prefer the ATI cards, so this is not the result of an Nvidia bias.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/graphics-cards-2003_24.html
In Halo, the 5900nu in my sig at stock speeds murders the 9600 in my sig that's way past XT speeds.
At 1024x768 with all the eye candy stuff turned off Halo is pretty much unplayable with the 9600... with the 5900 i can play fine with everything turned on at 1152x864
As you can see my setup is much more worse then your's(not overclocked at all) and it is just a little slow, I think halo just doesn't like nvidia cards.
No, look at the link I posted above. Nothing likes a FX5200.
Kenshiro
12-29-03, 01:19 PM
I think the problem with Nvidia is with shader 2.0. I did read an article somewhere indicating that shader 2.0 is not a priority with nvidia. However, isn't it true that Directx9 games are heavy written base on shader 2.0. I'm not a programmer, so please understand that I might have misuse the words/terms here.
There is no doubt that ATI's shader performance is better, but that is not the factor at work here. As evidenced by the xbit labs link I posted and q149's first hand experience FX5900s are very capable in Halo. Until you start looking for the real problem with your system's performance you are highly unlikely to find it. Simply slamming Nvidia is not going to get you from here to there.
Kenshiro
12-29-03, 02:39 PM
I wasn't slamming on Nvidia. Its just that I'm kind of upset that the 9600SE can keep up with my FX5900NU on Halo. That is one of those moments that I felt the word "SUCKER" floating above my head.
But you still seem to be missing the point. A FX5900 will flat destroy a 9600SE in Halo, and keeps up adequately with a 9800. For whatever reason your system is not performing at the level a 5900 is capable of, and if it were my system I would lift a finger to diagnose and correct the problem.
Kenshiro
12-29-03, 02:58 PM
I think you are right. I will reformat my hard drive and install everything fresh. See what happen then.
Sentential
12-29-03, 07:44 PM
Kenshiro I tried to warn ya earlier, the FX cards are garbage for high end machines. It is very apparent in games like Halo. Sorry to hear that you too got burned by NV too. :(
EDIT: Try the older detonator driver from 5/__/2003...its somethin like Detonator 44.76 or somethin. I know its a det 44. That driver illeviates many slowdowns on Fx cards. Best of luck:(
vidgion
12-29-03, 10:07 PM
I agree with iarva
the 5900 np is in the bracket with the 9800 pro and 5950.
if a 9600se is out performing your card, theres a problem with your setup,
no let's back this up 1st, Halo is not a good game to compare performance gains in the 1st place, it's code is full of garbage, everyone has trouble with Halo if you do some reading
people were forced to run the 800x600 resolution with some configurations
i gave the game a spin myself and it made my "ATI" card crawl at the 1024 res.
but trust me, the card you have is a great card especailly for the deal you got.
one thing is a lot of games are being developed with claims of using dx9 ext.s but i think they are written very poorly.
the hardware on the market shouldn't get eaten alive by some of the games that are being released
i play a game everyday that kills any gpu on the market due to its poor netcode and physics engine plus the fact that in fights there's 200-300 man battles with explosions and anything you can imagine.
during my time playing Halo, the game's engine felt similar to the game i play now, Planetside, you just can't get really good fps in that game.
but make gpu comparisons with "identical system configurations"
and with games that have good fast running engines like the unreal/quake engine.
micamica1217
12-30-03, 06:20 AM
Kenshiro,
I have to agree with larva and vidgion....
maybe my original reply was premature, yet I did take into acount that the 9600se was marked a 9600pro.
I've done alot of testing in halo with both my 9700pro and my friend's 5900u....
let me just say that CPU speed is a bigger facter with this game then most others.
also, what drivers are you using?
the latest drivers from nVidia shold give you about a 40% increase in frame rate as compared to some of the older ones.
(my friend thinks that with the latest drivers, halo is now running with 12bit shaders, instead of 16bit...yet it could be PS1.4 or lower too)(I wish I had a way to test this)
so, if your cpu speed is slower then the other rigs...
and maybe you were running an old driver...
your results sound about right.
yet, doing a reinstall could help alot too.
good luck
mica
Kenshiro
12-30-03, 08:36 AM
Currently, I am using Nvidia's latest driver, 53.03. I think I do have to reformat my hard drive. Its over a year since the OS was installed, and I probably have tons of garbage running in the background. I have 512MB PC2700 memory, and my CPU is 1800 XP DLT3C JIHUB overclocked to 2.26Ghz @ 16*141. For some reason, my system is very unstable when the FSB goes above 141. I think this could be the mobo because I did hear that the A7V8X, KT400 chipset is not really good for overclocking.
Sentential
12-30-03, 10:01 AM
Kenshiro, I can help ya out with your MB ocing problem. You must use the Pinmod to get high FSB on VIA MBs.
The Pinmod puts copper wires into your CPU socket. It shorts certian birdges out and bingo a 400/333FSB+ stable chip. Trust me it really works (check sig)
Kenshiro
12-30-03, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Sentential
Kenshiro, I can help ya out with your MB ocing problem. You must use the Pinmod to get high FSB on VIA MBs.
The Pinmod puts copper wires into your CPU socket. It shorts certian birdges out and bingo a 400/333FSB+ stable chip. Trust me it really works (check sig)
how do i do the pinmod? Is it something I can get from here??
http://www.ocinside.de/go_e.html?/html/workshop/pinmod/amd_pinmod.html
Will I mess up my CPU??? Its really hard to find an unlock 1800 now, so I really do want to f#*k up this chip?
Kenshiro
01-03-04, 12:32 AM
Anyways, I just upgraded my XFX FX5900 NU to the ATI 9800 pro. Halo runs soooooo smooth now.
Anyways, I will be selling that FX5900 on ebay. Anyone interested please email me and I will tell you when exactly I will post it on Ebay. I will even tell you my asking price.
TheGreySpectre
02-15-04, 01:59 AM
First off let me say I am biased towards ATI
but in multiple reviews I have read the FXs have a faster processer but the ATIs preform much better in pixel shading
Buhammot
02-15-04, 05:54 PM
When i an gonna upgrade... of course i fall for the marketing gimics... hell i even bought an MSI 5200nu to replace my 4200... i figured it was still a fast and dx9 card.. however, *cough* i was quite dissappointed by my old gf3ti200 whooping its a**.
Ok, ok, i fell for it, and came here asking for assistance. Due to past and still current reasons i care not to share, ATI is not my fancy. So i was lookin around and i was ready to spend some money. The 5900ultras were too expensive, and even moreso the 5950's. Ok, so i went to some places for reviews, anout 10 in all, and still wasnt satisfied.
larva here helped me quite a bit as well... so i got the $188 EVGA 5900se from newegg... and was quite pleased. Given i havent seen any side by side comparisons with any ati cards yet.. but now that i have it.. i ask this...
Is the Game Playable with all settings cranked up?
Is it playable at all?!?
and if i am satisfied.. i keep it
Mr.Guvernment
02-17-04, 02:23 AM
my simple contribution - probably already said
Halo is a Dx9 game - and we all know about FX's "so called" DX 9 support :D
quote:
Originally posted by MaxTem
I heard and saw report of ATI card having problems with NFS: Underground and such....
What kinda problems? Ive had none so far...i was damn addicted to that game for a while, lol
dido - i got this game and player for hours and horus on end - all settings @ max AA . FSAA - res - details - and not one issue using det from 3.7 - 4.1 :D
Mr.Guvernment
02-17-04, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by larva
There is no doubt that ATI's shader performance is better, but that is not the factor at work here. As evidenced by the xbit labs link I posted and q149's first hand experience FX5900s are very capable in Halo. Until you start looking for the real problem with your system's performance you are highly unlikely to find it. Simply slamming Nvidia is not going to get you from here to there.
Process of elimination - the best way to trouble shoot :D
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