Overclockers.com Intel Bias ? [Archive]

Cuda

12-29-03, 04:34 PM

Actually, there are often threads dissagreeing with not only Ed, but others as well. I read the article your refering to, and like everything else I read online, I "take it with a grain of salt" as my grandmother was fond of saying. I don't let the opinions of one person affect the way I think or what I believe in.
I myself have responded to some of Ed's articles, in a not very positive fassion, I might add. I simply think it's extremely unfair to judge the entire O/C community because of an article written by one person.
Personally, I usually ignore what Ed has to say when he hops on his Intel crate and starts preaching. I don't let it get under my skin, and I certainly don't lose any sleep over it.
As far as giving the O/C forums a bad name, I don't think that's the case. We have a very strong and loyal membership of both Intel and AMD users. Like I said, read through some of the threads, then base your opinion of the forums on what you find there, not just on the front page. :)

C00P

12-29-03, 04:45 PM

Well, i`m from Belgium(dutch language), and the forums in Belgium are all making jokes and pointing out to what Ed`s saying.
So i do think it reflects this way to the hole OC community.
But i enjoyed reading about : Haw to build a cheap AMD dual config :) very interesting to read, Good Job !

But what Ed is saying, is not Intel bias alone, also a bunch of lies, for example :

If Intel offered to let AMD ride the new horse, too, in return for dropping x86-64, they'd do it. They wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. That's quite possible the real reason why they came up with x86-64 in the first place, to eventually use it as a bargaining chip to get to ride the new nag.

This must be a joke, this person can make such a writings ? if he know a little bit of x86 and IA64 he would never spread those words.
I dont mind if someone prefers intel above AMD, but please dont tell lies ! many people who dont know that much of CPU`s will be misinformed !
Did Ed got a big bag of money from Intel ore what ?

Cuda

12-29-03, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by C00P

But what Ed is saying, is not Intel bias alone, also a bunch of lies, for example :

If Intel offered to let AMD ride the new horse, too, in return for dropping x86-64, they'd do it. They wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. That's quite possible the real reason why they came up with x86-64 in the first place, to eventually use it as a bargaining chip to get to ride the new nag.

This must be a joke, this person can make such a writings ? if he know a little bit of x86 and IA64 he would never spread those words.
I dont mind if someone prefers intel above AMD, but please dont tell lies ! many people who dont know that much of CPU`s will be misinformed !
Did Ed got a big bag of Intel ore what ?

Again, I do not know what motivates Ed to write what he writes. It is his own opinion. I am however, glad you enjoyed the dual cooling thread. There is a virtual plethora of useful information to be found here, as well as great people who will bend over backwards to help someone out. Don't worry to much about what one person thinks, time will tell the final truth. :)

David

12-29-03, 05:00 PM

What Ed writes, I beleive, is simply what he thinks would happen. These are his opinions. This is what he things could happen, or might happen. He hasnt looked into a crystal ball and said that this will happen and there is no stopping it.

This might be better in Front Page Discussions btw.

L337 M33P

12-29-03, 05:12 PM

Ed bashes/praises who he pleases - both AMD and Intel. I haven't got a problem with that, I don't read into the articles too much.

Sentential

12-29-03, 05:21 PM

I think you will see by our sigs that there is no Intel bias @ Overlockers.com

David

12-29-03, 05:25 PM

I think in the forums we have our fair share of both Intel and AMD fanboys. Whether there are more posts in either the Intel or AMD CPU forums could mean many things - perhaps more people run AMD than Intel, or perhaps more people have problems they have to post about. Could swing either way.

shortbus_

12-29-03, 07:03 PM

ive owned both intel and amd products. both worked well and did what i wanted. youre taking someone eles opinion too seriously, hes not forcing anything on you so just beleive what you want.

@md0Cer

12-29-03, 07:04 PM

Welcome to the forums! As for Intel biased forums, that is bull****. I am for AMD and I know many others who are as well. There are probably as many or more proud AMD owners as Intel. Even if 90 percent of us were Intel fanboy's that would not be evidence to suggest that this forum was Intel biased. Yes, maybe the some of the members, but not the entire forum. Also, most of us are pretty reasonable, for example, if I am an AMD fanboy and the Intel 3.2EE owns the A64 3200+, it is a fact. If the AMD owns the Intel, it is a fact. To me, this is one of the most un-biased forums. As for the front page articles, that is determined on the author of the article. Just becuase of the person who wrote an aritcle dosent mean the whole website is biased. If I were to write up some bull **** real quick and submit it as an article, that would not represent the site, just the article. People would say " oh look at that author, he's AMD biased!" not "oh look at overclockers.com! they are AMD biased."

here are some quotes that I could not have said better.

"What Ed writes, I beleive, is simply what he thinks would happen. These are his opinions. This is what he things could happen, or might happen. He hasnt looked into a crystal ball and said that this will happen and there is no stopping it."

"hes not forcing anything on you so just beleive what you want."

"I think in the forums we have our fair share of both Intel and AMD fanboys. Whether there are more posts in either the Intel or AMD CPU forums could mean many things - perhaps more people run AMD than Intel, or perhaps more people have problems they have to post about. Could swing either way."

Also, just look in this thread, there are more than 50 percent of us that use AMD. And most people who use Intel, are also owners of AMD processors! ("ive owned both intel and amd products. both worked well and did what i wanted.")

rogerdugans

12-29-03, 09:03 PM

Ed is often accused of bias- by all fanboy camps. :D

I concur with what others have said as far as his writing but would add that he writes his opinions and people can choose to get whatever they want from his writing.
If somebody gets aggravated by it and continues reading, then they must want to get aggravated, that's all.

The only biases I have ever found here (or on the front page) are those towards:
performance computing
getting the most bang for the buck from any hardware.

jazztrumpet216

12-29-03, 10:00 PM

You might think Ed is biased when he's writing for a neutral site. But you're quoting specifically AMD sites... I wonder which way they're biased! Besides, I remember Ed blasting Intel a new one a few times back in the P4 Willamette days. That's what I like about him, he tells it like it is.

Ed speaks truth- AMD does NOT have enough of the marketshare to influence the complete transition to 64 bit, and they don't have the marketing horsepower to influence Joe Sixpack that though the AMD has less MHz, that 64 bit is better than 32 bit. They know what a MHz is (or so they think), but they have no clue what bits are or how they factor into processor speed. AMD does have the advantage in that their 64 bit CPUs are fast in 32 bit applications, though.

If they could step up their marketing and show that 64 bit is better for the average computer buyer, they'd stand a better chance of getting the market changed over and making Intel cream their pants so they release a processor that can compete with AMD, like they did with the Willamette -> Northwood transition.

Skiing Squirrel

12-29-03, 10:38 PM

I do believe Ed is biased in some articles. Some of the things he writes about amd is just rediculas. Totally not worth my time reading them, and they really do not have any information in them whatsoever. It seems he just likes to write them to bash amd. Most of the time I don't even bother reading what he writes anymore, because frankly they aren't exactly filled with information pretaining to overclocking whatsoever. RIAA? That has what to do with overclocking? Thanks but no thanks... Just ignore them if you don't like them.

jazztrumpet216

12-29-03, 10:49 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong- Ed NEVER said Intel was better than AMD. He's just bashing AMD. He has bashed Intel, nvidia, ATi, Via, and many others. Just because he's bashing AMD does NOT automatically mean he's biased toward Intel, just that he doesn't like something that he sees. You cannot infer a bias based on the fact he's bashing AMD, unless he specifically says something to the effect of "AMD sucks, buy Intel!". He might think Cyrix is the neatest thing since sliced white bread for all you know.

I agree, the RIAA has little to do with overclocking. But it's something that overclockers will probably be interested in. I prefer to think of Ed's articles as editorials rather than reviews.

katka

12-29-03, 11:03 PM

I don't belive Ed is biased at all. He speaks the truth mostly and I agree with him most of the time (this coming from an AMD guy to). The only problem I have is that I tire of hearing about p2p and the RIAA.

@md0Cer

12-29-03, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by jazztrumpet216
Correct me if I'm wrong- Ed NEVER said Intel was better than AMD. He's just bashing AMD. He has bashed Intel, nvidia, ATi, Via, and many others. Just because he's bashing AMD does NOT automatically mean he's biased toward Intel, just that he doesn't like something that he sees. You cannot infer a bias based on the fact he's bashing AMD, unless he specifically says something to the effect of "AMD sucks, buy Intel!". He might think Cyrix is the neatest thing since sliced white bread for all you know.

I agree, the RIAA has little to do with overclocking. But it's something that overclockers will probably be interested in. I prefer to think of Ed's articles as editorials rather than reviews.

Yep he ... tells it like it is.

Thats what I like about him, he tells it like it is but bashes the loser :D lol , well not really, maybe so from what everyone has said but, I haven't seen any bashing but then again, I dont read very much of the front page.

XWRed1

12-29-03, 11:27 PM

I don't really like much of Ed's x86-64 talk at all. It just irritates me, mainly the things he speculates on I think.

Like how Intel would desire to make an incompatible x86-64. If they did that, it wouldn't be x86-64 -- it'd just be yet another 64bit arch and Intel has already had one of those for a long while.

And of course sometimes the information is a little off (like the erratic 20% -- he seems to have forgotten about the extra registers; thats what I enjoy most on my Athlon64), having information that is a little off is always grating.

The guy that started that AMDZone thread seems 100x more retarded though. Intel would surely break a law by manufacturing a processor incompatible with AMD? Ok... better get those lawyers ready to sue Intel into oblivion for Arm and IA64.

Scientia is a little off also. He says that modern x86 processors don't suffer any design baggage from x86 because they use micro-ops internally. Alot of effort has to be spent supporting old, old features and the chip design has to include an interpreter to convert x86 instructions to the micro-ops, surely not a trivial task. Just eliminating that and having compilers compile to the micro-ops instead would likely reduce the work of the engineers or make things faster, or both.

He also says:
What has been dropped is Real Mode. I'm sure the programmers on here recall that ever since 80286, the x86 line has had a Real Mode that allowed the cpu to fully emulate an 8086. That mode has been dropped from K8. K8 still has some of the old x86 quirks, but as time goes on and they are not needed, more will proabably be dropped. For example, 8087 stack based code is now on the way out. It's going to be there for awhile for compatibility but eventually, as more code uses SSE, it will be dropped.

Real mode is still in the K8. If it wasn't, bootloaders wouldn't work. Bioses would break. And not everything that was x86 would be able to run on the thing. Not just by deduction can you say it is there, but just by looking at AMD's docs you will see that real mode is there when you run in compatibility mode. If you run in Long mode, yes, it is gone. Long mode is x86-64 pretty much. So you can say Real mode was eliminated from x86-64, but the K8 still has it and I think it will be in every x86 chip until x86 is gone. Such is the evil of x86.

The x87 stack-based fp is on its way out maybe, at least sse2 is getting pimped over it. But it will never be removed from chips altogether. Do that, and legacy stuff won't work anymore. Most compilers still won't compile all fp code to sse2 either. Past that, I'm not sure that you can just blindly plug any random fp operation into sse2.

stool

12-30-03, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by C00P

But what Ed is saying, is not Intel bias alone, also a bunch of lies, for example :

If Intel offered to let AMD ride the new horse, too, in return for dropping x86-64, they'd do it. They wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. That's quite possible the real reason why they came up with x86-64 in the first place, to eventually use it as a bargaining chip to get to ride the new nag.

This must be a joke, this person can make such a writings ? if he know a little bit of x86 and IA64 he would never spread those words.
I dont mind if someone prefers intel above AMD, but please dont tell lies ! many people who dont know that much of CPU`s will be misinformed !
Did Ed got a big bag of money from Intel ore what ?

I'm sure you are totally prepared to prove that what Ed speculates on are lies, of course.

Z_oc

12-30-03, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by jazztrumpet216
Correct me if I'm wrong- Ed NEVER said Intel was better than AMD. He's just bashing AMD. He has bashed Intel, nvidia, ATi, Via, and many others. Just because he's bashing AMD does NOT automatically mean he's biased toward Intel, just that he doesn't like something that he sees. You cannot infer a bias based on the fact he's bashing AMD, unless he specifically says something to the effect of "AMD sucks, buy Intel!". He might think Cyrix is the neatest thing since sliced white bread for all you know.

Couldn't agree with you more

Originally posted by jazztrumpet216

I agree, the RIAA has little to do with overclocking. But it's something that overclockers will probably be interested in. I prefer to think of Ed's articles as editorials rather than reviews. [/B]

Yes - overclockers.com is a site for overclockers. And who are overclockers? - People who use their computers (we can safely presume). What RIAA is doing/trying to do WILL affect our PC usage models to a considerable extent; so it is a pertinent issue. And Ed's commentary on a wide variety of things makes the site more interesting.

If you don't like the topic of the article, skip it. My two cents.

eg1441

01-01-04, 08:42 PM

I think he has a point. I and many users are obviously capable of taking Ed's articles with a grain of salt, and not letting him get under your skin (I'm pretty sure he actively tries to be inflammatory).

Some people, however, are not. Morever, the community of this site is damaged by what I would describe as his "ceaseless tirades".

It's Ed's site though, right?

It just seems really strange to me, on and overclockers site of all things - a site obsessed with rigorous benchmarking and technical exploration and optimisation based on scientific methods, to have some nut on the front page publishing pages of basically pure speculation on socket 939 and Prescott etc.

And what about the really great community this site has? All those crazy guys writing awesomely inventive articles about cooling and case-modding? Do they really deserve to have their WORK drowned in yet more pages of speculation and RIAA politics?

So, look here, if my friends wanted a new computer now I would recommend the a64 3000+ without hesitation. Ed claims I should wait just 3 months for the arrival of socket 939 (a ludicrously short period in which to expect reasonably-priced socket 939 systems). JUST 3 months eh? For a 5% boost from dual-channel?

Why even bother waiting when the industry is moving so fast that the boost from dual channel isn't even what would normally be expected over a 3 month period? AMD will have to release actual new chips to even keep ahead of the curve... and if that does happen within 3 months, the new designs themselves may not be so crash hot.

So basically I think 3 months is a pretty absurd time to expect someone to wait in such an uncertain future, especially when there are AMD64 products out there now that are ahead of the current curve and WELL worth your money.

Ed has little credibility in my mind, but he is "amusing", in a disturbing kinda way.

9mmCensor

01-04-04, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by C00P
Did Ed got a big bag of money from Intel or what ?
If he did dont you think that he would be touting Intel as the greatestthing since the wheel and that AMD is a crappy clone, that cant compare to the real deal.

I am sure that if Ed got "big bag of money" he would be much happier and I doubt that infact he did get anything from Intel because he is far to moral for that, and Intel probably doesn't care that much about what he says as the Enthusiast market is relitively small.

How can I get one of these big bags of money? I want one!

NicePants42

01-06-04, 01:01 PM

I think Ed is biased against ignorant people who misinterperate other people's words and then stroke their own egos by attacking statements that they never understood rather than trying to do something useful.

I'm running AMD.

ZGOZZ

01-06-04, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by C00P
Think so,I have been reading a little bit around here, and i notice a large group of the members prefere Intel above AMD, Whyle all the review sites in the world(accept TomsHArdwareGuide and this site) show that the A64 is the fastest, and the coolest !

Maybe its because of those funny articles i have been reading here :
http://www.overclockers.com/articles913/
http://www.overclockers.com/articles911/
http://www.overclockers.com/articles902/

All from Ed, he`s realy funny i think.
But some people may take him serious, and that i can not allow :)

This is what AMD folks say about it, see if you can rely to it, ore agree with it.
http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=4397

Its like Ford V Chevy what you like. But Intel makes a great chip.

funnyperson1

01-06-04, 02:02 PM

Ed doesn't have anything against AMD as a desogner and producer of microprocessors rather you'll find it is their business practices that irks him.

The thing is that AMD's marketers do dumb things and also shady things.

Anyone that thinks that AMD is their friend and wants anything other than your money is wrong. AMD is a corporation and just like any other corporation, they need money to survive.

If you read his article today which discusses why you should hold off on buying a new cpu right now you would see that he is just cutting through the hype.

In this case, some of the people reading this will say, "OK, so I'll buy a socket 754 now, and another one nine months later. Big deal." That's fine by us. So long as you know what you're probably getting yourself into and accept that, we've done our job.

What we really want people to do is think before they buy, and consider both the pros and cons. We emphasize the cons mainly because almost everyone else are hyping the pros.

What we don't like to see are people swept up by a lot of manufactured emotion and excitement into wasting money they often don't have a ton of. When you let your emotions make your decisions for you, you lose control to those who can stir those emotions and thus manipulate you into doing what they want while letting you think it's your idea.

Here is his advice on the Athlon 64 situation:
What we think is a better idea, even for the impatient ones, is to wait for for socket 939, make sure the socket 939 mobos will work with 90nm chips, buy that, and then upgrade the processor to 90nm when appropriate. You'll have about a year of use before DDR-II is likely to show up.

Imho thats great advice. He is just trying to make sure people don't buy a cpu because it has been hyped up by marketing.

n_ick2000

01-06-04, 03:57 PM

One thing that I don't like is how much he uses "we" and "us". It seems that he is giving his opinion, and then calling it the opinion of the entire overclockers.com staff. I could be wrong of corse, but don't think Ed's articles are always backed by the rest of overclockers.com staff.

Anyway, I have been reading most of Ed's articles of late. When I started reading them, I was hoping to get a real unbiased review of what's going on in the cpu world. While I can't really say I like or dislike Ed's recent articles, I do know that I need somewhere else to get information as well. Are there any other truely unbiased sites out there?

memphist0

01-06-04, 07:22 PM

Has everyone missed the fact that he is blasting Intel and Prescott also?

How can he be biased when he is blasting both?

It's not like he is telling you to build an Intel based machine or an AMD one, he is telling you to buy neither right now.

hkgonra

01-07-04, 01:49 PM

IMHO Ed is awesome. In fact I would have to say in addition to being an AMD fanboy I am an ED fanboy. ;)

I think he does a great job of looking at things objectively and ticking everyone off equally. :p

V!5!0Nz

01-07-04, 02:21 PM

I think everyone should just stop argueing and agree that AMD rule!

/vision waits for the riots to being :D

ZGOZZ

01-07-04, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by V!5!0Nz
I think everyone should just stop argueing and agree that AMD rule!

/vision waits for the riots to being :D
Ok Intel Rules LOL;)

jazztrumpet216

01-07-04, 03:29 PM

Cyrix pwnz!

stool

01-07-04, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by jazztrumpet216
Cyrix pwnz!
AGGH! BARF!

ZGOZZ

01-07-04, 07:03 PM

How about duel G5 2.8 Rules LOL

drewmister

01-08-04, 03:37 AM

While I am still a hardcore AMD fan it is still a shame to see that AMD is following Intel... For Instance Ed brings up prices and multiplier locking, and personally I feel he is right. The low prices and unlocked chips were a definate plus to picking AMD over Intel but now with their marketing scam on the AMD 64 prices are outrageous and multipliers are only unlocked on the FX... Personally the technology for the 64 just isn't there yet... I built an AMD 64 3200 with the ASUS K8V Deluxe, 2x512 pc3200 ram, GeForce FX 5600, and it is fast but still not worth it...

Give me this though AMD over Intel for me.

drewmister

01-08-04, 03:40 AM

The system was for a friend of course or I would be running it now instead of my:

ASUS A7V333
AMD Athlon XP 2100+ @ 1733(default)
GeForce4 TI 4400
SB Audigy 2 ZS w/ Logitech Z680 Surround Sound
(got for Christmas amazing sound)

drewmister

01-08-04, 03:50 AM

BTW

Where to post... I know this is not the place but while on the subject...and I am new to forum (in fact this is the first thread I have posted in

After building my friends pc (above) he insisted I teach him how to overclock... So I let all hell break loose. With the multipliers on the AMD 64 3200+ locked He just went for straight FSB overclocking. He lives a distance away so I explained over the phone and everything went fine. He tried it at 205 (from 200 default) and it worked fine then he tried it at 210 and blue screened... alright... so he set it back to 209 and it ran stable with prime 95 for an hour... Anyway I let him loose from there it was late and I was tired. After this however the next day he went to school and left his comp on all day (i know dumb thing for him to do with newly tested expensive parts) and while he was gone it shutdown.... It will not boot anymore he doesn't even seem to get anything to spin on the motherboard like the cpufan or anything... He cleared the CMOS with my instruction and still no boot.... Is this computer hit the hay or does he need to install a new BIOS chip???? I am open to any suggestions because it is said to see such a new system down in 2 days unable to boot...
While running Asus probe was giving temperatures of 50-55 CPU and I have now heard some sick stories about how far off this probe can really be.... I am severly worried he just fried the chip... please help thanx!

On a last note he is on air cooling and not the greatest (Thermaltake Venus 7+)

ZGOZZ

01-08-04, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by drewmister
BTW

Where to post... I know this is not the place but while on the subject...and I am new to forum (in fact this is the first thread I have posted in

After building my friends pc (above) he insisted I teach him how to overclock... So I let all hell break loose. With the multipliers on the AMD 64 3200+ locked He just went for straight FSB overclocking. He lives a distance away so I explained over the phone and everything went fine. He tried it at 205 (from 200 default) and it worked fine then he tried it at 210 and blue screened... alright... so he set it back to 209 and it ran stable with prime 95 for an hour... Anyway I let him loose from there it was late and I was tired. After this however the next day he went to school and left his comp on all day (i know dumb thing for him to do with newly tested expensive parts) and while he was gone it shutdown.... It will not boot anymore he doesn't even seem to get anything to spin on the motherboard like the cpufan or anything... He cleared the CMOS with my instruction and still no boot.... Is this computer hit the hay or does he need to install a new BIOS chip???? I am open to any suggestions because it is said to see such a new system down in 2 days unable to boot...
While running Asus probe was giving temperatures of 50-55 CPU and I have now heard some sick stories about how far off this probe can really be.... I am severly worried he just fried the chip... please help thanx!

On a last note he is on air cooling and not the greatest (Thermaltake Venus 7+)

Remove the cmos battery from the mother board. Unplug system.
Try a new PSU. then go from there. Sucks.

CrashOveride

01-08-04, 09:28 AM

What ZGOZ said and, too both C00P and you:
Welcome To The Forums!:D
Feel Free to Introduce Yourself:D (http://www.ocforums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=241747)
And you really should post a new thread instead of in someone else's:D

stool

01-08-04, 09:30 AM

Try jumpering the PSU like this;

http://www.burningissues.net/how_to/power/images/plug.gif

At the least you'll know if the PSU is the problem or not.

drewmister

01-08-04, 08:31 PM

how will jumpering the psu like that tell me if the psu is the problem? I dont understand how I would know if there is power going through jumper like that set up there... thanx never really tested psu

CrashOveride

01-08-04, 09:16 PM

That just turns on a PSU, so hook up a fan to the PSU (and unplug everything else) and if the fan turns on the PSU works and the problem is probably somewhere else.

You could also just see if the fan on back spins but somtimes those die, so I like to hook up a known good fan.

drewmister

01-08-04, 09:51 PM

omg thank you all... I was so worried something was severly wrong stupid stock psu fried by upping vcore to 1.7 lol... thanx so much guyz this is the kewlest forum I have ever been to such good service

:-) I'm so happy

Mr.Guvernment

01-09-04, 04:02 PM

talk about a thread hi-jacking!

drewmister

01-09-04, 06:01 PM

sorry new to forum

CrashOveride

01-09-04, 06:46 PM

It's ok, just next time post a new thread, you will still get replys if you name it well (and even if you don't :p)

PoX Freak

01-11-04, 12:34 AM

Well, anyways...
Thats what we're here for!
Stupid PSU fry-outs and all........Welcome to the forums, both of you.
Now, back to the thread at hand......
It seems as if there is some biasing going on in Ed's articles, but there isn't.
Its just his way of admitting faults within both fronts, AMD or Intel.
Personally, I started out as an Intel fanboy, but thats because, at the time, Intel was cheaper than AMD and seemed to be more stable (remember, this was in the P1-66 to 166 days).
But then when i finally got around to upgrading, i got the K6/2-500, and immediately began to overclock that to 550 to start.
Now, since then, I am an AMD fanboy, only because the speed increases intel made were always a step behind AMD, although not by much. But the Athlon took me away, even in slot 1 form.
Ed's articles are meant to essentially bash and crash BOTH manufacturers when they goof up, or to complain when they make stupid decisions, such as a multiplier lock on all new CPUs.
The one that took the cake was the 2500-3200 multi-lock on anything from week 39 and above.
For overclockers, this was a really stupid move on their part which will hurt sales because ALOT of their buyers are overclockers who rely on multiplier changes to overclock.
Next is what? A FSB lock? A voltage limit control that would slow down the CPU in case of high voltage conditions to prevent overheat?
They're beginning to tick off alot of their customers with stupid dog tricks like this, trying to get a bite into the 'High-end' of CPU sales (selling high-end CPUs to major manufacturers for mainframe and server use).

Richard

01-13-04, 08:22 PM

Ed, just wants people to think. That's all. He's not pushing agendas, or trying to get people to buy buy buy.

Look. The hardware community thrives off of hype. Every day it seems we're inundated with more hyped up products (or press releases.)

"The Uber 1337 Gigavolt XTREME is the most awesome video card we've ever reviewed. You'd be retarded NOT to buy this card. We give it 10... no 20 exclamation points for greatness. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- John "Demyelinator" Jones"

"I bought the Uber 1337 Gigavolt XTREME and now I pwn in Quake3 -- random schmuck"

"The 5THz Pantalum X with STX and HP5 is the greatest processor we've seen - by far. We're just a bit put off by its pricetag. We advise waiting for the 3THz Vulcanized Tarrasque Supreme motherboard with built in 64 GB Octagonal Quad Buffered Graphix. THEN maybe the prices will have come down on the Pantalum to justify buying the most awesome piece of hardware in the known universe. -- The Lord Our Savior."

Look a bit familiar? Well it should, because that's what is present on a great majority of web-sites. These guys will feed you whatever line you want to read. They'll benchmark and tweak and praise a turd if they thought they'd get ad revenue. "The Turd X4 is new and IMPROVED. Now with less stench!"

Don't be a sucker.

teralec

01-16-04, 08:42 PM

I don't think the author is Intel Bias but he seems to like to nick pick at AMD which is understandable. It seems that overclockers.com and amdzone.com does not have a good relationship.

As for the articles by overclockers, some are good, some are just plain crap. Well, most of his AMD articles are just crap. Most are based on speculations. I am remember reading one where the author is saying what AMD should do to survive etc. Its more of a joke rather than a serious article. The articles mostly lacks depth and insight. Its like a personal opinion from a computer hobbyist. Just take them with a pinch of salt.

Back then when the site is talking about overclocking Celeron 266/300A, the site is awesome. It contains lots of info on overclocking and great reviews. Now, its more of a constant battle with amdzone with hardly and good review and overclocking sutff. Its just a heatsink database site now.

I just feel that that the author should cut the crap on those "ojective" views and focus on the original stuff that was done years ago.

jazztrumpet216

01-16-04, 08:45 PM

No one ever said Ed was objective. He's very much the opposite, extremely subjective. He's just equally subjective amongst all computer hardware brands.

Mr.Guvernment

01-17-04, 12:27 PM

as has bene said - Ed bashes and comments on what he writes about @ that time - at no point is his article a permanent feeling towards one item.

Wazer

01-17-04, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by memphist0
It's not like he is telling you to build an Intel based machine or an AMD one, he is telling you to buy neither right now.

LOL! Great Advice Dont Do anything! Pure Genious. I Personally think that Ed's "speculation" should be taken elsewhere. Most of the guys around here are overclockers, gamers with a few of us still being budget overclockers/gamers.

When hop on the site I'm looking for INFORMATION on STEPPINGS, VARIOUS OVERCLOCK ARTICLES, WATERBLOCK and HEATSINK REVIEWS, as well as other TIPS, TRICKS, and HACKS. NOT BS SPECULATIVE ARTICLES. I mean come on these guys are slipping. The lack of hsf/waterblock reviews as well as some quasi shady fans used on some of the heatsinks with various fans reviewed is bullsnikie. Sup with the Video Card reviews also. Im stuck trying to translate articles most of the time trying to find out new stuff.

Cut the Speculation/Opinion ARTICLES and get back to the Overclocking. If there is something besides speculation on CPU releases and overclock than put it down. Prediction k8/prescott is a worthless speculative venture as we have all seen. Let it come out then overclock it review it and give us the availability and price. The rest of the stuff is just BS.

Wazer

7keys

01-17-04, 07:14 PM

Don’t take him seriously.

He does write with an arrogant - know it all- style, although his articles are at times very informative. He seems to be constantly trying to push people’s buttons.
He seems to have issues with the “fan boy” type members and tries to get beneath their skin. It can be humorous if you don’t take it seriously.

Richard

01-17-04, 11:59 PM

Of course he has issues with the fanboys. The fan in fanboy means "fanatic." There's nothing about PC Hardware that deserves such complete devotion.

One more thing. People throw the word bias around like it's some kind of awful thing. Bias, is natural. Everyone is biased in some shape or form. No one is truly impartial. The only way to be unbiased is if there are no differences in the products. In the case of Intel vs AMD there are many differences. Therefore, bias just comes with the territory.

And "bias" isn't a static thing. I may be biased towards Intel today, but AMD tomorrow. Does that mean I'm fickle? Perhaps, but it certainly doesn't mean that I'm somehow a bad person for choosing one company's product over another. We all have our reasons for the decisions we make. Ed, is just attempting to be the counterbalance in the pendulum of the hardware reviewer community.

Supertrucker

01-18-04, 05:25 PM

anybody who thinks ed should stop writing about what he thinks will happen, go start your own web page, oc.com is his to do with as he likes, nobody makes you read the articles

anybody saying he is an intel fanboy or amd fanboy (ive heard both) just needs to read a little more because he writes good and bad about both companys.

anybody who thinks they have to listen to him as to when to do an upgrade, does he have your wallet? some other means of leverage over you?

in all of the articles ive read, and i try to read most all of them, he makes it pretty clear that he is speculating on what may happen, he never says things he predicts are set in stone.

anybody who thinks he is wrong to critisize amds future or the way they do buisness, take a step back and look at the fact that amd has not turned a quarterly profit in what, 2 years? they are in debt up to their ears, anyone who thinks this is good buisness is a fool.

most of what he says makes sense, intel really is out to put amd under, every chip amd sells is a loss to intel and they are trying to stop it, thats life. and life can be a cold hard ***** when she wants to be

7keys

01-18-04, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Richard
There's nothing about PC Hardware that deserves such complete devotion.

I agree!
And that is what makes his articles so amusing, you can just see those fan-boys getting angry with every jab he takes at their sacred cow.

Wazer

01-18-04, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Supertrucker
anybody who thinks ed should stop writing about what he thinks will happen, go start your own web page, oc.com is his to do with as he likes, nobody makes you read the articles

Definately true but I believe we the readers and in a way the supporter of the site do deserve more than gross speculation on the site. Its been pretty weak around for reviews of late. Overclockers.com has always been just that for me. Speculative articles just dont have anything to do with how you or i spend our money.

anybody saying he is an intel fanboy or amd fanboy (ive heard both) just needs to read a little more because he writes good and bad about both companys.

I dont think he is a fan boy just a moron at times. Within the last 6 months he has been busy pulling his head out of his arse at times. Just look at the prescott and k8 junk he has posted in the past. Talk about eating some pooh.

anybody who thinks they have to listen to him as to when to do an upgrade, does he have your wallet? some other means of leverage over you?

Definatly not...but I send many newbs around here for info and some guys around here are not experienced users and dont know any better.

in all of the articles ive read, and i try to read most all of them, he makes it pretty clear that he is speculating on what may happen, he never says things he predicts are set in stone.

Some of his more recent articles look to be more speculative but not all.

anybody who thinks he is wrong to critisize amds future or the way they do buisness, take a step back and look at the fact that amd has not turned a quarterly profit in what, 2 years? they are in debt up to their ears, anyone who thinks this is good buisness is a fool.

I personally have no problem with that. I just have a problem with Idiotic Speculative Articles. It does nothing for any of us. I would rather see a WW waterblock review, a TIP roundup with as5 and OCZ ultimate 2 involved. Maybe some 92mm heatsinks tested with 92mm fans. Maybe try overclocking the video cards and use the latest drivers on them. Maybe they should put up the applebred and thorton cache unlocking guide or start a database of boards that are gonna work with prescott. Not all of us have the financial resources or power to get vendors to send us hardware. I find its somewhat the responsiblity of overclocking sites and hardware sites to help us out a bit.

most of what he says makes sense, intel really is out to put amd under, every chip amd sells is a loss to intel and they are trying to stop it, thats life. and life can be a cold hard ***** when she wants to be

I can agree with that...Maybe its better to be level headed and think before writing journalistic articles. Or following one of my personal principles on hardware "Wait and See". That way you dont make people mad and if you do you have concreate evidence do defend yourself against fanboys. Yes fanboys do exist and the do misinform but gross speculation doesnt help any of us PERIOD.

One of the things that urked me the worst was his attack on old anand. Now I dont agree with everything involved with anands buget cpu shootout...but hell what a responce by ed. Go buy a damn dell. Great suggestion to overclockers on the front page. If you dont have much money go buy a dell. Buy yourself a non-upgradeable non-overclockable propriatary based system because its cheap and get what you pay for. Personally I would take a slow clocked northwood p4 or any applebred/tbred/barton over all inexpensive dell systems and most of there mid level stuff not to even start with the rebates that were proposed in the cheapy system.

Predicting the future of k8/Prescott has really made him look like an idiot recently also. Wait and see wait and see thats all I would ask for. I dont mind him tearing up anyone he see's fit as long as there are some FACTS. I would appreciate a few more articles on overclocking and tips but I understand its dificult.

Wazer

Richard

01-18-04, 11:34 PM

There's actually a pretty good reason for the speculative articles. You see, Ed believes there's a better time to buy than others.

Back when the P4C's and Barton XPs were showing promise he said, "Now's the time." (Paraphrasing of course.) But that's essentially what he said. Because it was pretty clear that the second half of 2003 was going to be just minimal speed bumps of the same technology.

Now we're in a different situation. There's a few new products coming down the pipe pretty soon. What Ed is saying is if you're not particularly hurting for an upgrade. Now isn't the time to buy. Prescott, isn't looking to be a great overclocker and it's pretty obvious that 1st generation Athlon 64's aren't either. So that leaves us with waiting.

How long a person waits is the question, but I think it's blatantly obvious that buying Prescott with a socket 478 board is a mistake. For one thing if you've got a i865/i875 chances are you have a pretty decent Northwood already. Why buy a Prescott which will offer no performance advantage? Wait for the new motherboards. And by the time the new motherboards are released chaces are that Prescott will have undergone some improvements. For what it's worth, Precott will have the shortest life expectency of any Intel CPU. Prescott, is a transitional CPU. Don't expect it to stick around very long.

With regard to Athlon 64. It's in very much the same boat as Prescott. For the majority of 2004 it's not going to be a good overclocker CPU. It won't be until 90 nanometer that Athlon 64 will likely be a good overclocker buy.

Wazer

01-19-04, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Richard
There's actually a pretty good reason for the speculative articles. You see, Ed believes there's a better time to buy than others.

Back when the P4C's and Barton XPs were showing promise he said, "Now's the time." (Paraphrasing of course.) But that's essentially what he said. Because it was pretty clear that the second half of 2003 was going to be just minimal speed bumps of the same technology.

Now we're in a different situation. There's a few new products coming down the pipe pretty soon. What Ed is saying is if you're not particularly hurting for an upgrade. Now isn't the time to buy. Prescott, isn't looking to be a great overclocker and it's pretty obvious that 1st generation Athlon 64's aren't either. So that leaves us with waiting.

How long a person waits is the question, but I think it's blatantly obvious that buying Prescott with a socket 478 board is a mistake. For one thing if you've got a i865/i875 chances are you have a pretty decent Northwood already. Why buy a Prescott which will offer no performance advantage? Wait for the new motherboards. And by the time the new motherboards are released chaces are that Prescott will have undergone some improvements. For what it's worth, Precott will have the shortest life expectency of any Intel CPU. Prescott, is a transitional CPU. Don't expect it to stick around very long.

With regard to Athlon 64. It's in very much the same boat as Prescott. For the majority of 2004 it's not going to be a good overclocker CPU. It won't be until 90 nanometer that Athlon 64 will likely be a good overclocker buy.

I completely agree with all those statements. Its just to bad Ed didnt come out and say that though. All you have to do is put up a buyers guide and a what not to buy guide. Or wait for the products to come out and put up some hard truth up. Thats not difficult. Im sure it would save him some face. If you really want me to start quoted how bad ed's speculation has been i can pretty easily. I dont have a problem with COLD HARD FACTS. Just Speculative Opinions on unreleased hardware. I completely agree that k8 and prescott are not anything worth buying for most of us. But I wouldnt go fapping from the mouth about how terrible k8 and prescott are gonna be just as processors and then have to do a 180 and try to defend yourself. Just look at todays article on prescott's and what ed was saying earlier. If you really want to see something bad i can cut and past an opinion article from early last year that ed had on k8. Talk about gross speculation...it doesnt get worse. I have no problem with Ed going after the big boys I just like it when there is something to back him up besides combating the fanboys with the same misleading speculation that they and the big vendors like to push. I find the apple advertisement about the worst on the market and wouldnt mind somebody taking them on...Ed can bring that all he wants.

Wazer

Edit to remove SIG. Ive been asked not to display the link to my folding stats as I am a member of another team...Until then no sig.

Randall

01-22-04, 06:41 PM

I think one thing that people disagreeing with Ed need to think about is economics. Ed says the things he says because that's what he thinks and that's what he wants to contribute. He doesn't try steering people into a world of "Haha Intel Rulez!" but more of "Well, back in the day, the Celery 366 was a great overclocker. Then we had the Athlon 1gHz. Etc." He understands that our community is one of overclockers, not one of "Gimme that 9800XT and a dual Opteron board, pronto!"

Just think about the economics (and, yes, financial reports) when it comes to this stuff.

On a personal note, I use AMD currently, but given the performance vs. price between Intel systems and AMD systems right now, I'd rather go with a 2.4c Intel system and get over 3gHz and an extremely large memory bandwidth. Personal preference here, but I feel it's the best bang for the buck.

(I apologize. I'm studying economics at school)

-r

specific

01-24-04, 11:50 PM

I missed this one by a few pages

Just like to chime in here....

Ed is as objective as they come. He sums it up with the facts, and throws his opinion on them for future consideration. I wouldn't spend as much time here as i have had it not been for the front page editorials/articles.

Drink one for Ed!
:beer:

Gnufsh

01-25-04, 09:17 AM

I personally like Ed's articles. I would, however, like to see some more technical/overclcoking articles. I guess I should get off my rear end and submit some, shouldn't I? One thing I would really like is longer, more indepth HSF reviews. Give us some thoughts about the design and that sort of thing. I don't want to know just how well it performs, but why it performs that way.

One more thing, the surge suppressor and cord tieing articles were very interesting.

specific

01-25-04, 08:13 PM

He gives a different take on this business, the products and the people who patron it. There are so many review sites out there. The front page here is the breath of fresh air needed in these circles sometimes, whether you agree with him or not. He tends to put things in a wider perspective than many would otherwise perceive.

It's easy everyday reading.

Wazer

01-25-04, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by specific
He gives a different take on this business, the products and the people who patron it. There are so many review sites out there. The front page here is the breath of fresh air needed in these circles sometimes, whether you agree with him or not. He tends to put things in a wider perspective than many would otherwise perceive.

It's easy everyday reading.

As Long as he continues with pure speculative articles he is gonna be busy pulling his head out of his arse. Nothing wrong with eds opinion but its not writen as an opinion article. He write's these as fact articles. The speculation on K8 and Prescott this year have really made him look idiotic. If he would take more time to sit back and ACTUALLY WAIT for products to get out and then make remarks he could aviod all the gross specualtion about any of the comanies.

Wazer

XWRed1

01-26-04, 02:51 AM

The tone seems tabloid-like at time.

"We tell you the real problem with prescott!" turns out to be "It probably runs at 4ghz when they meant to run it at 5 which is bad news! In reality they barely got it from 3ghz to 4!"

Feels like spinning half-full/half-empty glass scenarios as fact.

He does that from all angles though, I wouldn't say he is biased towards any group - if anything he is the paranoid looking for conspiracies everywhere.

funnyperson1

01-26-04, 12:33 PM

Tell me where is the Intel bias in this article here?

http://www.overclockers.com/articles942

Really Ed's articles are just analyzing and prediciting the very little data put out by companies that are all trying to make money off of us.

Wazer

01-26-04, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by funnyperson1
Tell me where is the Intel bias in this article here?

http://www.overclockers.com/articles942

Really Ed's articles are just analyzing and prediciting the very little data put out by companies that are all trying to make money off of us.

To analize something you have to have FACTS first. I dont believe he is biased to any company. Just grossly speculating on most of his articles. If you say he is a predictor well he has been wrong on two of his biggest issues. Prescott and K8. So maybe you should go back and read the artciles.

I like what XWRed1 had to say about the issue.

<<<Feels like spinning half-full/half-empty glass scenarios as fact.>>>

Thats what most of us have a problem with...not any form of a bios for any company.

Wazer

JaY_III

01-26-04, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by Wazer
Thats what most of us have a problem with...not any form of a bios for any company.

Wazer

I fail to see the problem.
You voluntarily read his articles, you seem to know they tend to be his opinions, and what he thinks is going to happen in the near future…
but when you don’t like his opinion you get upset.

Anyways, i get a real kick out of threads like this.
I have seen every major brand of FANBOYS call Ed BIAS.
Good stuff people, keep up the DRAMA as we hardware geeks need some entertainment

JigPu

01-26-04, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by Wazer
To analize something you have to have FACTS first. I dont believe he is biased to any company. Just grossly speculating on most of his articles. If you say he is a predictor well he has been wrong on two of his biggest issues. Prescott and K8. So maybe you should go back and read the artciles.
The problem is that he dosen't have many facts to play with. He's trying to look 6-12 months into the future based soley on AMD's shady roadmaps, and the small information drip coming from Intel regarding Prescott.

It's hard to NOT speculate when you don't have enough to make a half-reasonable subjective article. :)

I don't mind his writing, he brings up a lot of points that I wouldn't have thought of. While his information does seem limited (and thus 90% of each article is then devoted to speculation), I can take that tiny grain of information and decide for myself what my beliefs are on the situation. He makes his point, and tells why he thinks it. I use his 'why' to come up with my own thoughts.

JigPu

Wazer

01-27-04, 11:15 AM

I fail to see the problem.
You voluntarily read his articles, you seem to know they tend to be his opinions, and what he thinks is going to happen in the near future…
but when you don’t like his opinion you get upset.

Sry if you cant see the facts in front of your face. Gross speculation was handed off as FACT. He has had to eat major poop for his articles about k8 and prescott performance. Not to mention these are not writen as OPINION articles. Last time I checked he has had some issues predicting the future...not exactly nostrodomis. Oh well I'm just of the school of "wait and see". This way you put all the cold hard facts down and you dont have to worry about doing a trick to pull your head out of your ass like Ed has had to do with K8 and Prescott. Saying K8 and Prescott such before they get out is a waste of all our time. When they come out and he wants to say they are a bad value or dont overclock worth a **** thats FINE with me.

Anyways, i get a real kick out of threads like this.
I have seen every major brand of FANBOYS call Ed BIAS.
Good stuff people, keep up the DRAMA as we hardware geeks need some entertainment

Ed Is not biased. He just gets caught up using the same type of information that all the fanboys use. Cold hard Facts are all he needs. Writing articles with no FACTS and pushing Opinions without them is the same material all the fanboys have always used.

Drama is good...but the front page looks more like a magic show recently with Ed writing some piece without any FACT and then writing a piece later where he has to do the magic trick and pull his head out of his arse. No BIAS from Ed just plain Gross Speculation.

Wazer

Wazer

01-27-04, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by JigPu

The problem is that he dosen't have many facts to play with. He's trying to look 6-12 months into the future based soley on AMD's shady roadmaps, and the small information drip coming from Intel regarding Prescott.

Definately True

It's hard to NOT speculate when you don't have enough to make a half-reasonable subjective article. :)

Why then Speculate on the performance and overclockability of a CPU before its actually released then. I must have missed something.

[QUOTE]I don't mind his writing, he brings up a lot of points that I wouldn't have thought of. While his information does seem limited (and thus 90% of each article is then devoted to speculation), I can take that tiny grain of information and decide for myself what my beliefs are on the situation. He makes his point, and tells why he thinks it. I use his 'why' to come up with my own thoughts.[/B]

I really dont mind any point Ed has to make I just think it would be alot easier if he would wait for some facts before he busts out the rediculous specualtion. I dont know about you but i have never made opinions about any hardware or software till it actually COMES OUT. Thats my main point. Dont write articles based on nothing. And I personally would suggest Ed start waiting on Products to hit the market rather than doing a half assed prediction.

Wazer

Gnerma

01-28-04, 01:05 AM

Wazer, give us links to the Prescott & K8 speculations that were totally wrong that you keep referencing. And what was so wrong about them? If its speculation about the future how do you know he is wrong? Maybe you need to follow a wait and see policy?

Ed analyzes tidbits of information about future hardware as it comes, and he usually has interesting and insightful things to say about it. If you want to see more of the types of articles you mentioned, by all means, submit some. If you don't like Ed's articles don't read them. I promise, he isn't going to stop writing them because you think he should be doing something else ;)

As for the fact vs opinion thing, the english language is setup so that one can tell fact from opinion without the speaker/writer having to say either way. If Ed is writing about something in the future that there isn't much info about then of course much is opinion and speculation. If anybody can't figure that out its their problem not Eds.

If Ed has one major analytical flaw I'd say he is in "don't buy now" mode too often.

/me can't believe he got involved with this one :o

dropadrop

01-28-04, 01:32 AM

I enjoy reading his rants even though I usually don't agree with all the speculations in them. He almost allways manages to bring in something that I did'nt think about, and as such the articles are wellcome for me.

Ofcourse I rarely agree with anyone in everything they say, so I don't even expect to do it here. :)

JaY_III

01-28-04, 01:53 AM

Originally posted by Wazer
Saying K8 and Prescott such before they get out is a waste of all our time.

then dont read the article.
No one help a gun upto your head and forced you to read it did they?
And if past experience has taught you you dont like what Ed has to say, why do you keep reading... Perhaps thier is something worth reading in his viewpoints?

Originally posted by Gnerma

If Ed has one major analytical flaw I'd say he is in "don't buy now" mode too often.

Like when?
I think most of his dont buy now modes are failry justified (I dont always follow them myself), but they do give a good idea of what is out thier.

And his current stance makes sence.
You have a high end Northwood right now, upping to a prescott with a 30 stage pipeline isnt going to do anything for you.

You got a Good Video Card NOW, well dont buy a new one, as AGP is on its way out.

Remember, .09micron has been a bust for both AMD and Intel.
And with the ATX form factor to soon die (replaced by BTX), along with DDR and AGP and all current socket you can buy for ANY platform will be gone really soon.

So if you got OK hardware, and want to be left with an upgrade path. Wait!. If you still crusing along with a Slot CPU that doesnt apply to you. you need a new system now.

Silversinksam

01-28-04, 02:18 AM

Gnerma

01-28-04, 02:25 AM

Originally posted by jAY
Like when?
I think most of his dont buy now modes are fairly justified (I dont always follow them myself), but they do give a good idea of what is out their.
Doh! now I'm in two arguments :bang head

Okay, to clarify. Let's say Ed is in 'don't buy now' mode 90% of the time. I'm not saying that it should be something much lower like ~ 50%. If you haven't bought exactly when Ed has said to buy then the whole thing is out the window. Or if your financial means are much lower or higher than Ed's target its also out the window.

So, Ed's buy/don't buy analysis' work wonderfully if you are 'joe average hardware enthusiast' but many variables can throw them way off. The fact of the matter is only YOU know what hardware you have and how much new hardware/speed you need and can afford. But yes Ed's recommendations often can be helpful in that they get another mind working on the upgrade problem. Fair enough compromise?

I searched for 20 minutes for a reader email Ed printed on this topic but could not find it.. maybe somebody remembers. :-/

Fushyuguru

01-28-04, 05:21 PM

Ed talks Politics, Economics and Business trends. Its all wrapped up and related in a language that any computer enthusiast should follow easily.

If you read Money and the Wall Street Journal, then you should be able to grasp how Ed confronts the issues facing our particular hobby on a coorperate and dollars and cents scale.

Hes not afraid to point out any fault, nomatter whose making it, Intel or AMD. Whether you notice that or tend to hamper on particular evaluations of AMD, tends to be a more personal thing.

I find Ed to be a rather Insightfull and Objective critic. In this day and age of multi-billion dollar marketing schemes, hes the type of guy you need to peel back the shiny coating and let you know how broken something may be, wether its Blue or Green.

Wazer

01-28-04, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by Gnerma
Wazer, give us links to the Prescott & K8 speculations that were totally wrong that you keep referencing. And what was so wrong about them? If its speculation about the future how do you know he is wrong? Maybe you need to follow a wait and see policy?

As for the fact vs opinion thing, the english language is setup so that one can tell fact from opinion without the speaker/writer having to say either way. If Ed is writing about something in the future that there isn't much info about then of course much is opinion and speculation. If anybody can't figure that out its their problem not Eds.

If Ed has one major analytical flaw I'd say he is in "don't buy now" mode too often.

/me can't believe he got involved with this one :o

If you take the time to look through the last couple months of Prescott articles is pretty apparent. Not to mention the earlier articles saying amd was blaming microsoft for lack of performance...saying that AMD could not live up to there statements that k8 could run as fast (er) than northwoods in 32bit mode. He pretty much got caught on those articles. I personally wouldnt buy either of these products myself P4C and the XP tbred-b/barton are the only things to touch in my opinion. If a product is not on the market then WHY should we speculate on how it will 1. perform 2. overclock. Its an endless fight. When it comes to pre-order and engineered samples are released and prices are realease I say go for it. But when you specuate on any future technology you have to be VERY CAREFULL.

I have NO problem with the "dont buy no" mentatality I actually applaud that. I dont like missing tid bits of misleading facts in opinion articles. Nor did I enjoy the suggestions to Buy a Dell if I wanted a sup 100 dollar processor. Not exactly swift especially for overclockers. What I like are quasi factual information in opinion articles. It counters the very purpose of an opinion article if there are misleading facts used within them.

Wazer

Wazer

01-28-04, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by jAY
then dont read the article.
No one help a gun upto your head and forced you to read it did they?
And if past experience has taught you you dont like what Ed has to say, why do you keep reading... Perhaps thier is something worth reading in his viewpoints?

See the problem is his viewpoints have to change so much on one topic that its defeating. The WAIT AND SEE philosophy would make his opinions worth something more than a good laugh for me personally. I get a kick out of reading an article flaming prescott then seeing "prescott is not going to be as bad as I though". I mean comon man do you have to put up an "insert head into arse" sign to aviod this. His opinion articles can be right on point every once in awhile and it seems to be right before the product is actually released or even while its out. I completely argree with ed's views on K8 and his recent change of views on prescott. It just took a hell of a lot of speculating to do so.

I personally feal ed could help me out by having a TIM roundup with you know TIM ROUNDUP that actually includes all the latest TIMS. Or maybe a waterblock review with a WW block. Or say maybe a HSF review with multiple fans. I know thats awfully optimistic but i think its better of for Ed and myself. And the opinion articles can come out closer to actual release with a more relivant and factual basis. As I said earlier if i had the financial resources or connections to do these articles I would...because I look to those like overclockers.com that do.

BTW I dont enjoy reading translated russian articles on how to unlock the l2 on applebreds and thortons either :)

Wazer

GoodKarma

01-29-04, 05:50 AM

What a hilarious thread...

(all paraphrases)

-- Ed and OCs. com is Intel biased...
-- Maybe Ed is, but we're not...
-- Ed bashes fanboys of both types...
-- Ed bashes all parties (companies, fanboys) when they deserve it
-- Ed writes to much about non-hardcore computer topics (but I'm too much of a freeloader to contribute content)...
-- Ed says don't buy...
-- Ed says think before you buy...
-- Ed speculates too much...
-- Ed was wrong when he was bashing both K8 and Prescott
-- Look at how Ed ate crow because of his Prescott bashing

What a circus.
:p

JaY_III

01-29-04, 09:23 AM

@Wazer

Joe does the hardware.
so gona have to bug him if you want certain blocks tested...
But thier is demand for the WW and Cascade blocks

Artisan

01-29-04, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by eg1441

So, look here, if my friends wanted a new computer now I would recommend the a64 3000+ without hesitation. Ed claims I should wait just 3 months for the arrival of socket 939 (a ludicrously short period in which to expect reasonably-priced socket 939 systems). JUST 3 months eh? For a 5% boost from dual-channel?

Why even bother waiting when the industry is moving so fast that the boost from dual channel isn't even what would normally be expected over a 3 month period? AMD will have to release actual new chips to even keep ahead of the curve... and if that does happen within 3 months, the new designs themselves may not be so crash hot.

So basically I think 3 months is a pretty absurd time to expect someone to wait in such an uncertain future, especially when there are AMD64 products out there now that are ahead of the current curve and WELL worth your money.

I got out of that article that IF you already have a computer, AND its capable of lasting another three months, AND you don't upgrade often, THEN for your sake wait and buy a 939 mobo becuase it will be easier to upgrade with another 939 chip later on. The emphasis was on the upgrade path, not immediate performance gain.

I wonder if you may have missed the point of the article.

I think Ed has the best interest of the community in mind when he writes these articles, and I haven't owned an intel in years.

Didn't he just have an article (http://www.overclockers.com/articles942/) talking about how AMD will be justified in upping their chip ratings if Intell again lowers the value of their MHZ. That doesn't seem anti-AMD.

His advice helped me, as it made me think more about my long term upgrading strategy. As opposed to being lead by the sway of the latest hype.

That said, I mostly skip the RIAA articles but am baffled that they get under anyone's skin. And if Ed isn't always right, I don't care since I can think for myself and because last I checked I've been charged a grand total of ZERO $ to visit this site, and I have gotten tremendous value from it. Including more than a few articles from Ed.

eternalprophet

01-31-04, 01:21 AM

I actually like what Ed does. He gives his opinion, and many times he is accurate.

I have seen him give props and blast both intel and AMD.

If you are an AMD fanatic, then you tend to call people who do not praise AMD to the high heavens liars, sellouts, misinformed, etc.

If you are an Intel fanatic, then you tend to call people who do not praise Intel to the high heavens liars, sellouts, misinformed, etc.

See what I mean?

Intel recycled CPUs (http://www.overclockers.com/tips00513/)

Just be aware that this is something you'll need to check into before buying. If you want to be the first kid on your block with a Prescott, you might end up with a rather early version of one, which is not what you want to do.

Prescott not a must have (http://www.overclockers.com/articles935/)

The Two Prescotts We talk about Prescott I and II, explain why II will be better, but also explain why it's hardly a must-have.

It says a lot about Intel's problems that if I had to bet today, odds are at least 50-50 that even a socket T Prescott is going to join the ranks of the "not-quite-good-enough" along with the 130nm AMD products.

Now, myself, I am a huge AMD fan. I know AMD does some stupid things and some smart things. I know Intel does some stupid things and some smart things, but I am not a AMD man Intel hater type of guy.

I like the facts, and I like reading the opinions of others in the field or on review sites on occasion. If you think Intel has every advantage over AMD, you are mistaken. If you think AMD has every advantage over intel, you are mistaken.

Neither is perfect, so I do not expect to see any total pro amd or pro intel on any website OTHER then say, if something was called AMDISTHEBESTINTHEWORLD.com

If you choose to ignore when someone blasts Intel and then say they are biased, then you need to read more of the articles that are posted :)

Audioaficionado

01-31-04, 12:28 PM

I like 'em both as you can see by my sig.

I was all set to get a Xeon dullie this spring but I've decided to wait until later this fall. By then most of the newer technology will have been released for the year and I can then make a better informed decision on a platform I'll have to live with the next several years. I'm hoping both AMD and Intel will have good i86-64bit dual SMP platforms to chose from.

I don't think Ed is bashing AMD so much as he is just trying to get people to think logicly about purchasing decisions and quit falling for all the emmotional marketing hype out there from both camps.

Some people have their minds made up already and don't want anyone confusing them with the facts.

diehrd

01-31-04, 12:47 PM

Why not just send ed an email..Seams sily to talk about a man and not to him...

Audioaficionado

02-01-04, 09:25 PM

He has full access to the forums and can read the front page discussions at will. I've sent him several emails and never got a response. So I wouldn't worry about him as he seems to be in control of his situation.

stroligo

02-04-04, 10:31 PM

After the Prescott articles of the past few days, does anyone still think I'm an Intel fanboy. :) Some ought to consider the possibility that someone who criticizes AMD for something does not automatically love Intel, or vice versa.

There's no problem with me and anyone at AMDZone. If Chris Tom occasionally disagrees with me, he's perfectly entitled to do so, and that's fine by me. He has a perspective and bias, but he's perfectly open about it, which is fine.

Per "speculation," the irony is that the people who are complaining most about "speculative" articles are the ones that most need to read them. There are better and worse times to upgrade systems, and there are better and worse systems to buy, but you'll never be able to figure that out unless you look down the road a bit and know what is likely to come in the near future.

That's a good deal more important towards making the best purchases than, buying the right waterblock and the wrong CPU. That is why we emphasize it so much.

If you don't do that, if you refuse to look at anything other than the here-and-now, you're going to get blindsided and make some bad purchases, either by buying products that will soon be technologically obsoleted, or by paying too much for items that will soon drop in price. If you don't say anything about anything until it's out there, it's too late for the people who acted beforehand before they should have.

I'm sorry, but that's not a good way to approach buying this equipment, and you're going to find out in life that for a lot of things, you can't ignore the future.

I'm not exactly sure what Wazer is talking about with these "speculations Ed got caught on." The best I can figure out, I think he's referring to comments I made quite a while back saying that AMD needed x86-64 to signficantly outperform Intel. That turned out to be quite true. Of course, when I use terms like "significant," I'm talking along the lines of 15-20%.

My comments about x86-64 and IA-64 seem to have upset a few. The reality is AMD would be in a lot of trouble if Intel ever brought IA-64 to the desktop and they didn't somehow get the right to make IA-64 compatibles. AMD's whole existence has been based on Intel compatibility. If that situation ever came up, AMD would trade a lot to get that. If you don't think so, that's fine, but just calling me stupid doesn't prove it, you ought to give reasons for why you think I'm wrong.

Per "don't buy now" mode, well, frankly, ideal times come rarely, but I am trying to broaden the comments to cover people in a variety of situations.

Per RIAA and the like, I know it's not a vote-getter, but there's so much ignorance and misinformation and disinformation out there. I know full well that this isn't exactly the most receptive audience for an "obey the law" message, but that's why prisons are mostly filled with young men. When I started talking about it, everyone said, "They can't do anything to us." Would you say that today after the RIAA lawsuits? Was I wrong?

I would say that three years from now, in the US and EU, DRM will be firmly in place, and what is today normal P2Ping will be a crime. It will become like small-time drug dealing, you may well not get caught, but if you do . . . . Is it worth it?

Per paranoia, it's not paranoia when they ARE out to get you.:) More seriously, what I do is look for the type of word games a lot of these companies play to give one impression without actually saying it. Most of the time, when people do that, there's something going on. There's a lot of subtle manipulation going on out there, and unless you're looking for it, it goes over most people's heads. It's meant to mislead the less careful and inattentive.

Finally, in general, those who made positive comments explaining why I do what I do "get" me. They're right in what they say.

uvaman

02-05-04, 05:51 PM

From and overclockers point of view , I tihnk that most of eds articles are right on target... the only chips that are worrth our college milk mone are the barton 2500 or so and Intels 2.4c or so....

But I t do disagree with overclocker's .com point of view about AMD's current pricing ... in the past they have had excellent performing chips for cheap and that hasnt taken them anywhere with oems all, I dont see why would that change anytime soon.

Even though AMD has the best performing chip right now OEMs carry one maybe 2 models based on AMD64, and those system are hidden somewhere, in fact Im unable to find them one (of any AMD system) the compUSA where I live. execpt for emachines's which were sold out/./...
Seeing how Compaq sells Celeron like crazy makes me realize that is not a matter of performance, but of favoring one company over the other (Intel over AMD) and AMDs pricing would change that in my opinion, afteall the price of the cpu are already a small part of the price of the system, and cosidering Companies like compaq and hp give so little exposing to AMD system I think it matter little if they price those chips at 700$....

Wazer

02-05-04, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by stroligo
[B]Per "speculation," the irony is that the people who are complaining most about "speculative" articles are the ones that most need to read them. There are better and worse times to upgrade systems, and there are better and worse systems to buy, but you'll never be able to figure that out unless you look down the road a bit and know what is likely to come in the near future.

That's a good deal more important towards making the best purchases than, buying the right waterblock and the wrong CPU. That is why we emphasize it so much.

If you don't do that, if you refuse to look at anything other than the here-and-now, you're going to get blindsided and make some bad purchases, either by buying products that will soon be technologically obsoleted, or by paying too much for items that will soon drop in price. If you don't say anything about anything until it's out there, it's too late for the people who acted beforehand before they should have.

I'm sorry, but that's not a good way to approach buying this equipment, and you're going to find out in life that for a lot of things, you can't ignore the future.

See Ed my problem is with calling it too early not making the call. I honestly agree with most all your articles. I however think it would be wiser to wait closer to actual release before popping out the speculation. I do agree that you should inform us of products coming out and potential issues and overclocking performance I just think you called k8 and prescott too early even though i wouldnt touch these with a ten foot pole in current form. As Ive said in other posts I think a system build guide is perfect. Hey man I do REALLY want to see a WW review also ;)

I'm not exactly sure what Wazer is talking about with these "speculations Ed got caught on." The best I can figure out, I think he's referring to comments I made quite a while back saying that AMD needed x86-64 to signficantly outperform Intel. That turned out to be quite true. Of course, when I use terms like "significant," I'm talking along the lines of 15-20%.

The only things that got me riled up were the early calls on k8 and prescott. I did not care for the "dell suggestion" for budget builds on a enthusiast website either.

Per "don't buy now" mode, well, frankly, ideal times come rarely, but I am trying to broaden the comments to cover people in a variety of situations.

Actually Im personally a dont buy now kinda guy. I would love to see a system build guide with a budget overclocker and all out overclocker system layouts...and an upgrade guide also.

Prediction of k8/prescott is a worthless speculative venture as we have all seen. Let it come out then overclock it review it and give us the availability and price. The rest of the stuff is just BS.

thats my personal view on the subject as I posted earlier. I can understand informative articles I just dont like things called too early.

Wazer

Voodoo Rufus

02-05-04, 06:30 PM

Bias? I don't think Ed has any towards anyone from what I read. In my opinion he's normally spot on for educated guesses. Sometimes I get a little annoyed at hearing about one thing or one side (like all on Athlon 64 or P2Ping and whatnot), but he's normally right and I generally agree with him. There's enough bashing to go around everyone gets their share. :D

I think Ed's speculation and articles towards both Intel and AMD on their products and business tactics are spot on though. I really like how he looks into the future a bit. It's the kind of stuff I always think about.

If there's one type of user he doesn't think too much about though, it's the user who builds/upgrades a rig every 3-4 years who's on less than a AthlonXP and who looks for upgrades that are so far removed in speed difference than what he has that anything looks pretty nice, and will last the next 2-4 years.

Keep up the good articles!!!! I really like them.

There already is a review of the WW block here:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles692

and a good thread here:
http://www.ocforums.com/vb/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=267540&highlight=cascade

Krowa 02

02-05-04, 07:39 PM

Im going to be honest right now, and say that Ed really annoys the heck out of me sometimes. This is partially due to the high ammount of negative articles about new stuff. He isnt biased like alot of people think, but he assumes alot of things and bashes just about everything, sounds like an old broken record. Everytime I read an article it gets negative at one point and I see no purpose to continue reading it.

I still do enjoy reading the main site time to time, but to be honest I can get really annoyed at myself for wasting my time with some of the articles. But to answer the original question, no intel bias here, neutral place.

JaY_III

02-06-04, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
If there's one type of user he doesn't think too much about though, it's the user who builds/upgrades a rig every 3-4 years who's on less than a AthlonXP and who looks for upgrades that are so far removed in speed difference than what he has that anything looks pretty nice, and will last the next 2-4 years.

You are correct, he doesnt think too much about them..
But then again, they do think too much about overclocking.
This is an overclocking web site, and the information is geared towards us. And 4 year old computers dont really have any upgrade path. As you need a new everything pretty much

Originally posted by Krowa 02
Im going to be honest right now, and say that Ed really annoys the heck out of me sometimes. This is partially due to the high ammount of negative articles about new stuff. He isnt biased like alot of people think, but he assumes alot of things and bashes just about everything, sounds like an old broken record. Everytime I read an article it gets negative at one point and I see no purpose to continue reading it.

Well you need to give the guy credit for the broken record he is.
How many hardware sites do you know of that say DONT buy? Most hardware sites are like a broken record too, and it only plays BUY.

Originally posted by Wazer
I however think it would be wiser to wait closer to actual release before popping out the speculation. I do agree that you should inform us of products coming out and potential issues and overclocking performance I just think you called k8 and prescott too early even though i wouldnt touch these with a ten foot pole in current form.

Thats funny. You said you dont like how he commented on Prescott and Hammers so early.... Even thought what he said is coming to light and you now too hold the same opinion, good stuff

Wazer

02-06-04, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by jAY
Thats funny. You said you dont like how he commented on Prescott and Hammers so early.... Even thought what he said is coming to light and you now too hold the same opinion, good stuff

No it hasnt and Ed even made that clear on his responce to me. He has had to flop around on these to products because of speculating on these products to early. His flops on K8 on performance speculation and taking stands on prescott a litte to early. Prescott is not going to be as bad as Ed speculated...its not going to be something to upgrade to till .09 though most likely.

I didnt see and defense for ed suggesting a dell to those looking for budget cpu's comon man lets get real ;)

Wazer

macklin01

02-09-04, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by Wazer

... Prescott is not going to be as bad as Ed speculated...its not going to be something to upgrade to till .09 though most likely ...
Dude, all Prescotts are going to be .09. A Prescott is a P4 on a 90 nm architecture with a few additional instructions, a longer pipeline, and a few minor changes.

And though I don't always agree with the mothersite editorials, I would like to interject one quibble here: what Ed is doing (or trying to do) isn't so much speculation (wondering / pondering / reviewing idly and inconclusively), but rather projection (an estimate of future possibilities based on a current trend) or extrapolation (the estimation of variables or data outside the known range from those that are currently known).

Little logic or data goes into speculation, whereas projection / speculation is based upon a logical examination of currently available data and past experience to (hopefully) get a good approximation of the near future.

Can it be wrong? Of course it can! All future planning involves an element of projection or extrapolation. One cannot plan for a future when s/he hasn't considered what that future may be and chosen the several most likely scenarios. One doesn't simply cease and desist from planning for the future because the projections may or may not be correct, nor does one comletely reject all future plans because there is some element of uncertainty. Rather, one tries to make the best projections possible with the currently-available data. As more data becomes available, the projections are checked for accuracy and updated to incorporate the most current data. -- Paul

funnyperson1

02-13-04, 02:22 AM

Well Ed had been making a lot of speculation about Prescott, and that seems to have upset quite a lot of people.

Its okay you can relax. From articles like this: http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1693/ you can see that Ed was totally, completely, horribly, and insanely................

Right.

The reason why I read the front page here is because it gives me something the other sites don't.

Every site and its mother has hardware reviews, if I want to know how prescott performs after it comes out then I could go anywhere on the net to find it.

Ed was telling us Prescott might be too hot MONTHS AGO.

If you want facts about stuff thats already out go to anandtech, go to tomshardware, go to xbitlabs. If you want rumours go to inquirer.

What Ed does is he takes a little bit of the rumours and the facts and he analyses them and makes an educated guess at what will happen, and that is pretty rare imho.

If you don't like him telling you not to buy something, then don't, no one is holding a gun to your head.

Just remember when something new comes out, and you spent a load of money on something inferior which can't be upgraded(S754 or Prescott) that you have become a marketing tool.

Remember that you were used like a condom, and someone was trying to warn you.

Fushyuguru

02-13-04, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by funnyperson1
The reason why I read the front page here is because it gives me something the other sites don't.

Every site and its mother has hardware reviews, if I want to know how prescott performs after it comes out then I could go anywhere on the net to find it.

Ed was telling us Prescott might be too hot MONTHS AGO.

If you don't have a "perk". What are you?

Just another one of the hundreds of lookalike hardware sites.

Thanks Ed for our "Perk"!

Voodoo Rufus

02-13-04, 12:00 PM

Ed isn't the only thing giving the site it's "perk".

We got Joe's sink/block reviews!!!!

Between those two, the site has it made. :D

jhl3

02-15-04, 12:29 AM

Ed isn't biased toward intel. Read the prescott reviews. IMHO he was only partially correct on Prescott. It sucks voltage and generates heat worse than he said it would. So let's all thank him for the positive objective review that he did. Intel shouldn't have released it until what will be the 2nd revision if then. I think it will eventually develop into a great cpu. But for now Ed is correct. Save your money until then or spend it on AMD or something else. AMD is the reason that we have 3.4Ghz CPU's now. If it weren't for AMD, Intel would probably still be milking our money with the P3 at 1G and giving us 50mhz incremental increases and telling us how freaking great their newest chip is while they sandbag on the technology.

Thanks AMD.

Oh! BTW, I'm an Intel fan.:p

TO: Richard, Jay, Supertrucker,Gnerma, Fushyguru, Artisan, Funnyperson1, and finally, last but certainly not least, Stroligo (ED) :clap: CHEERS
:beer:

Keep on speculating ED! And please don't wait until just before or at product release. It will result in a lot of waisted time, effort and money for most of your devoted readers. That's why we continue to come here. Your speculation counters the hype!

If people don't like what you offer for free then maybe someone can develop a pay site that tells them only what they want to hear.

But they would probably complain about that too!

WAZER, I'm a bit :confused: by your interpretation of the reviews!

Morpheus

02-19-04, 12:43 AM

From an ex-overclockers point of view:

I have had to give up on Ed and the OC.com frontpage... I am tired of wading through buckets of BS to find a grain of truth...

I hate to read somthing that I feel was only written to fill a daily void on the homepage... No news is OK... I don't think there has been anything newsworthy in a while...

my new overclocking motto: if it doesn't suck and it doesn't fry, keep it: if it fries, buy something else...

It might cost more money, but it sure takes less time... :rolleyes:

Wazer

02-26-04, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by Morpheus
From an ex-overclockers point of view:

I have had to give up on Ed and the OC.com frontpage... I am tired of wading through buckets of BS to find a grain of truth...

I hate to read somthing that I feel was only written to fill a daily void on the homepage... No news is OK... I don't think there has been anything newsworthy in a while...

my new overclocking motto: if it doesn't suck and it doesn't fry, keep it: if it fries, buy something else...

It might cost more money, but it sure takes less time... :rolleyes:

Couldnt agree with you more! Waste less time on speculation and more time on reviews and build/upgrade guides or just dont put up anything at all. All the bashing and praising of k8/prescott is a waste of time until you and I can even think about putting our paws on one. All the reviews are out on them now...its alot better than specualting on overclocking potential or even performance before they are released. If there is a problem with something and you have some facts or something more than speculation BRING IT. The stuff ED is doing now is fine because these chips are ACTUALLY AVAILABLE for some people to get there paws on. I would like to see some time spent into some site cleanup also. As I've said i dont think Ed is a zealot either way I just thinks he gets off on bashing a horse before its at the gate.

Wazer

Wazer

02-26-04, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by jhl3
WAZER, I'm a bit :confused: by your interpretation of the reviews!

Nobody wants to put there paws in the mess that is the Dell suggestion for overclockers who want a budget cpu huh!!! anyone for a bite. Go back and read all my posts its pretty clear that my only problem is specualting way to early. When you have to write an article about why prescott isnt going to be as bad as you thought leaves you in pooh. Just wait till you know till some of the guys actually pick some up. Ed should put up a build/upgrade guide and ditch the speculation...or at least wait till we have some actually engineered samples to see what they do.

Wazer

Wazer

02-26-04, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by stroligo
I'm not exactly sure what Wazer is talking about with these "speculations Ed got caught on." The best I can figure out, I think he's referring to comments I made quite a while back saying that AMD needed x86-64 to signficantly outperform Intel. That turned out to be quite true. Of course, when I use terms like "significant," I'm talking along the lines of 15-20%.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles703/

The buying advice hasnt really been touched for 3 years.

BTW I bought my cpu last year in march for 90 bucks and probably wont update for another year. Most of us have the sence to know what to purchase without reading every one of you many (too many) prescott or k8 reviews. Just read my first few posts it shows what i think pretty clearly.

Wazer

macklin01

02-26-04, 10:30 AM

You have some good points, but do consider that when one makes a decision to buy, he should consider what's coming down the road in addition to what's currently available.

In other words, Prescott should have been affecting Northwood decisions 6 months ago (At that time: Is Prescott worth the wait, or should I go for the NW I want now?). Future Prescott revisions, Tejas, and Socket T should be influencing current NW and Prescott decisions.

The same thing is influencing graphics card purchases: it's probably a good idea to look down the road at upcoming PCIe-based graphics cards and what type of mobo you might have in 6-8 months before laying out $200-$400 for an AGP graphics card. We sure don't have the heck of a lot of PCIe graphics cards to "think about putting our paws on one", but they should nonetheless be a factor in our current buying decisions.

I think perhaps one thing that you and others disagree on is the extent to which one can make predictions. To you, as far as I can tell, predictions are speculation. To others, prediction is taking the currently-available information and making an educated guess. Here's where experience helps.

One thing that may also make you uncomfortable is Ed's use of economic / business data to make inferences on the technical situation. I can say that based on the business and economics background I've had in my education and when keeping tabs on economic / financial news for the past 10-12 years or so, the analysis is generally sound. -- Paul

diggingforgold

02-27-04, 08:18 AM

Ed is a great writer for the front page. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but not all articles on the forums are to be taken as unbiased reviews. There are many articles that are more like editorials (like the file sharing article- heavily biased towards the side of the RIAA).

You just have to get used to the style of writing and arrangement of these articles on our forums. If they say they are going to make a article on a review of a product, you can almost always guarantee to see a very unbiased review with the facts known. Some authors throw in their own comments- and they make it very clear that it's their opinion.

If you have you're own opinions about AMD/INTEL that's in the tech news- make sure you try to write up your own article, without bashing one of the senior editors tho ;). With the money generated through advertisements, they are giving away $100 to great articles, and runners-up prizes to the others. GIVE IT A TRY!!!