Is BH-5 BH-5 no matter how it's packaged?

[johan851]

I'm looking at a memory upgrade, and there are obviously quite a few sources to get BH-5 from. Right now, I'm looking at either Mushkin PC3500 Level 2, or Kingston PC3000. I'm not opposed to spending what it takes for quality RAM, but I hate to spend more than I really need to.

What kind of overclocking results have people gotten from Kingston's PC3000? How about Mushkin's PC3500? I know one is rated higher, but since they're both BH-5, can I expect the same from each?

[Tedinde]

Ive got mushkin LVL2, Kingston 3500 Older one's with BH, Geil with bh5 and some buffalo BH5's, They all do pretty close to each other.

My Kingston seems to shine though. I got 262fsb out of it @ 1:1 cas 2-2-2-6 last weekend 3.6v though!!!

BH sticks are getting scarce. Notice the 3200's are gone from newegg. The OCZ guy said they are out of BH-5;s they dont make them anymore.

Better get them while you can.

[Grandpa Dan]

Mushkin is the only one with bh-5 to use up. Yes and no they are the same...it's the same chip but the pcb it's on can make a hage difference(4 layer or 6 layer).

[larva]

Sure PCB matters, but Mushkin isn't the only company on earth that uses ones of sufficiently high quality. In fact, it is extremely rare to find a case these days where the PCB is sub-standard, especially when you are talking about a quality manufacturer like Kingston. HyperX 3000 or 3200 non-A are just as good as anything made bearing BH5, within the variability you see in the BH5 chips themselves.

[johan851]

Alright, that helps. I still have a question though. You mention variability in the BH-5 itself. Since the Kingston is rated for 2-2-2-6 @ 183mhz, and the Mushkin is rated 2-2-2-6 at 216mhz, are the BH-5 in the Mushkin hand-picked? Or does the fact that the Kingston has a lower MHz rating mean that the chips used in their PC3000 are kind of sub-standard for BH-5?

[Grandpa Dan]

Originally posted by larva
Sure PCB matters, but Mushkin isn't the only company on earth that uses ones of sufficiently high quality. In fact, it is extremely rare to find a case these days where the PCB is sub-standard, especially when you are talking about a quality manufacturer like Kingston. HyperX 3000 or 3200 non-A are just as good as anything made bearing BH5, within the variability you see in the BH5 chips themselves.

Agreed, I didn't mean to imply that those manufacturers pcb was an inferior product. My point was more to the fact that the bh-5 chips are disappearing and Mushkin is the only company AFAIK that still "guarantee's" their level 2 product will have "bh-5" chips.

If you go to both websites and read the fine print neither company guarantees their product to run at 2-2-2-5 or 2-2-2-6 with a 865/875 chipset.
GD

[Shade00]

It means that Mushkin has tested those sticks and verified that they will run 2-2-2-6 at 217. The Kingston HyperX is only verified at 185. Simply put, they are handpicked.

I found a stick of the old revision (2.5v on sticker) HyperX 3500 at Best Buy yesterday - I was quite surprised, and I picked it up to play around with. She seems to be happy at 215 using 2-2-2-6 (it's rated for 2-3-3-7), and at 225 using 2-2-2-6. Unfortunately I can't give the stick more than 2.8v. :( It's going nowhere fast.

[larva]

I can't speak as to Mushkin's internal workings, as they are not known to me. But anectdotally, I have as many dissappointing BH5 sticks from them as from any other maker. Ratings mean nothing, except for the fact that if the Mushkin does not meet its rating you can hold them liable and get the ram replaced until you find better examples.

I've seen really good results with Mushkin, KHX, Buffalo, and basically any other module carrying BH6 or BH5 chips. My old Kingston value ram 2700 did 450MHz 2-2-2-5 turbo on 2.9V (BH6). I would rate KHX 3000 as safe a shot as any other in this no-gaurantee world of overclocking, but you never know exactly how good anything is until you test the particular examples you get with your equipment. I tend to trust the KHX 3200 non-A a little more in the 512MB size, but great results have been turned in with essentially anything carrying BH5 at one point or another.

The largest degree of variablity with BH5 stems from the time of manufacture. The stuff made in 2002 tends to be a little better than the 2003 production. Obviously nobody has 2002 examples left around to pick from at this point.

[johan851]

Alright, thanks for the info. Would the PC3000 be better in the 512mb size as well? I want to end up with 512mb total, and since running dual channel with an AMD rig doesn't do much, 512mb might not be a bad option - a single 512mb will overclock better than 2x256, perhaps to the point of counteracting the loss of performance you get going w/ single channel. Is this what you were talking about larva?
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-144-108&catalog=147&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1

*Edit - maybe I'll take a look at Best Buy tomorrow...you say if it's rated at 2.5v (with the corresponding sticker) it's pretty sure to be BH-5?

[Shade00]

The sticker on the RAM stick will say 2.5v. The box also had a giant white sticker with the UPC on top. The others didn't have the sticker and they also said 2.6v. When Kingston switched from BH-5 to CH-5, they upped the voltage requirement to 2.6v. I'm going to another Best Buy to see if I can find another - the stick does as well as my Buffalo CH-5, and I'd rather have the BH-5 around in case I have the opportunity to use them to their full potential someday.

[larva]

Originally posted by johan851
Alright, thanks for the info. Would the PC3000 be better in the 512mb size as well? I want to end up with 512mb total, and since running dual channel with an AMD rig doesn't do much, 512mb might not be a bad option - a single 512mb will overclock better than 2x256, perhaps to the point of counteracting the loss of performance you get going w/ single channel. Is this what you were talking about larva?
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-144-108&catalog=147&manufactory=BROWSE&depa=1

*Edit - maybe I'll take a look at Best Buy tomorrow...you say if it's rated at 2.5v (with the corresponding sticker) it's pretty sure to be BH-5?

No, I was saying if your were going to get 512MB dimms, I trust the KHX3200 a little more. If you're getting 256s I'd get the KHX3000, the last several I've seen have been monsters.

[Grandpa Dan]

There are several people on this forum that have gotten KHX with the 2.5v sticker that was ch-5.

[johan851]

Ah, thanks for the heads up Grandpa Dan. In that case...I think I'll be looking into the 2x256mb PC3000 DIMMs. Thanks for all the advice guys, you've just saved me about $40! :)

[wingman99]

IC7 mem 86 testing my new HyperX PC3200 BH-5 finally good luck i was able with good timing 2-3-2-5 run FSB 278 mem 222 no volt mod or mother board change. That is a much better BH5 chip, now if i go for volt mod or a new board much better results. but my p4 max is at 286 anyway because of temp at 3/2. Mem speed at 219 2-2-2-5 is better. Also i can boot up fsb 300 at 3/2 no beeps but XP locks up.

nothing against mushkin pc3500 level II only clocked 213 stable beeps and all kind's of problems unstable unable overclock it was just bad luck of the BH5 pick

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by larva
I can't speak as to Mushkin's internal workings, as they are not known to me. But anectdotally, I have as many dissappointing BH5 sticks from them as from any other maker. Ratings mean nothing, except for the fact that if the Mushkin does not meet its rating you can hold them liable and get the ram replaced until you find better examples.



Mushkin Memory has a Lifetime guarantee, and best of all they have a 30 day NO questions asked return policy. I know of no memory maker with as good a warranty. This is one reason I prefer Mushkin, but there is plenty of other great memory to choose from.

[larva]

Yeah, Mushkin stands behind their product well, but it's also expensive. Newegg wants $167 for 2x256MB Level 2 PC3500, and $283 for the 2x512MB kit. In contrast 2x256MB of Kingston HyperX 3000 is $115, and 2x512MB is a mere $200 these days.

Personally, I overclock mainly to find parts that cost as little as anything, but are capable of as good as performance as the most expensive. If you are trying to take risk out of the equation (something not always possible in the OC field), and don't mind spending an extra 50 or 85 bucks to do so, Mushkin certainly is good ram and a good company. I'm just a little cheaper than that.

I can't afford things like a 3.2GHz P4, so when I find a 1.8a that runs happily at 3.4GHz it tickles me pink. In the same way I like taking bargain ram like KHX 3000 (or my bargain buffalo bh5s), and producing cutting edge results. It all depends what your priorities are, and how you like to play the OC game.

One nice thing is you can return newegg purchase for 30 days, no questions asked, for 15% restocking fee. Or if you have really good reason to return it, you can call them and they will waive it. I often buy motherboards as refurbs, test them, and just eat the restock fee if the board doesn't OC like I want. It's the only way I can afford to try a bazillion pieces of hardware these days, and that is what gives me the best results over time.

[ColtIce]

my kingston hyperx 3200(non a) is rated at 2.6 and i have taken the heat spreader off to confirm that they were in fact BH-5

[gixxer420]

nice idea Larva. I bought my nf7s back in Dec, now that I'm with intel I just got me a RMA for the board. So hopefully I'll use the money for some mushkin pc 3500 lvl 2. Thanx for the idea

[Speed_Mechanic2]

Mushkin Black Level 2 PC3200 is only $70 per 256MB($140 for 2x256MB). It is only $128 per 512MB ($256 for 2x512MB). It comes with Winbond BH-5 chips that have passed all of Mushkin's testing and doesn't cost inhibitively more then Kingston HyperX PC3200 (non-A).

[johan851]

Yeah, thanks again you guys. I found someone selling 2x256mb Mushkin PC3200 Level 2 in the classifieds for $115 shipped. It's a dual pack too, so the modules are spec'd to run dual channel together. I thought it was just as good a deal as the HyperX PC3000, as the guy who had them could do 227MHz 2-2-2-5 @ 2.85v.

[pkrew]

Well, money is money and its all luck of the draw. I have some old pc3500 bh-5 hyperX that will do 247 at 3.15 and some more expensive pc3500 lvl 2 that will go 243 at 3.15. Both at 2225 and F1 and both have lifetime warantees. IMHO go with the least expensive. Both companies make high quality ram.