How is this for a low price 1st time watercooling kit?

[ZightZar]

http://www.xoxide.com/theraqiipreo.html

and maybe more importantly, would it fit inside a Antec Lanboy (w/o the backup receiver?)

really wanna get a low price water cooling kit cause my case is just WAY too freaking loud... have 3 80mm fans running at 5000-6000 rpm and a thermaltake spark7 with the fan running close to 7k rpm... almost makes my freaking ears bleed :(

i figure that even a cheeeeeep water cooling kit will cut down my noise to almost nill, and might even give me better cooling than what i have...

[ZightZar]

I was also looking at this one:

http://www.xoxide.com/evecwacokit.html

and yeah, i know they are cheap (if you find any cheaper plz tell me :D ) but im working with a really small budget and im kinda a tightwad w/ money lol... :|

[bigsoomo]

do a search on google....USE THE FORCE

[ZightZar]

use google for wat?? +google doesnt answer my questions as good as the answers i get here most of the time ;)

[AngryAlpaca]

NO! No Aquarius II! The lanboy can support a 120mm fan on the front, can't it? If so, get a BIX (They're just a little over 120mm, right?) a Hydor L30, and a White Water. (That depends on budget, you may be forced down to a small heater core, a Via Aqua 1300, and a Maze 3.)

[vonkaar]

Do a search on these forums for Aquarius II. That'll answer your questions...

Basically... it redefines what 'absolute crap' might mean to you.

[ZightZar]

ok thx for the info :(

hey angry, how much would all of that cost? like i said, im on a really tight budget (meaning ill have to save to even get enough for the aquariusII...), so at max, ill be able to spend around $150. i have no clue as to whether my lanboy can support a 120mm fan (i know for sure the back only supports a 80mm, the front MAY be able to support a 120mm, but i could enlarge my self made window fan hole to support a 120mm :\).

[vonkaar]

$150 is more than enough to get you a very nice customer WC system. As for size, there are many people that have fit whole WC systems in the smallest ITX cases.

[ZightZar]

and what about that evercool one, hows that? i was also looking at this:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?sid=3FF4B48074F5617F&product_code=306871&pfp=BROWSE

[ZightZar]

oh cool thx vonkaar. could you direct me to either a guide that will tell me what i need to get, or give me a shoping list of parts to get to make my own custom one (hopefully total less than $150?)

love you long time if you can :D

[AngryAlpaca]

If it all fits into a 5.25" bay, it sucks. I told you what I think you should go for. That's pretty much the best.

[ZightZar]

and just mesured my case, there aint no way in hell the front or back could fit a 120mm fan w/o some extreme modding skills that im a sad to say i have not (would have to make some pretty crazy mods to the hdd rack and other stuff).... the max i <i>could</i> do would be to enlarge the rear fan to a 92mm (maybe even pushing it a little) using my dremel :/

but from what i've seen, most radiators go in the front of a case, so unless they make 80mm rads, i just may be outta luck :(

dunno if you know how small a lanboy is, but if you ever saw a small dell or emachine case, think of that but about 1 inch longer and taller and aluminum, then you'd get an idea of the size of my case hah...

[bigsoomo]

if you can spend 150...check out www.aquastealth.com or a basic set up from www.dangerden.com would do it

[AngryAlpaca]

Oh my bad. I was thinking of the Super Lanboy. 80mm rads DO exist. Someone on my other forums fit an entire setup into a Shuttle. I might advise two Black Ice Micro's in a parallel setup (One at front, one at back) but I don't know if that would cool well enough.

[xace]

I wouldn't recommend ordering anything from xoxide, for future refrence. Their prices are sooo high

[birdmun]

i would think putting the rads in like that would require a blowhole to remove air that you should be sucking into the case

[ZightZar]

ok, so if i get this:

http://www.aquastealth.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=8

thats ALL i need? nothing more? it comes with EVERYTHING i need to get to have a simple low cost watercooling kit for $65?

[AngryAlpaca]

The fan on the front is moving air into the case, and the one on the back is pushing air out, through the radiator. Putting two fans on each rad would help decrease the suckiness.

[AngryAlpaca]

That's a 120mm rad. That system uses 3/8" tubing. There's no shroud on that radiator. That waterblock isn't the greatest. L30, WW, and, instead of rejoining the outlets, you send one (with 3/8" ID tubing, to fit on the rads) to the rad on the back, and you send the other to the rad on the front, (again with the 3/8" ID tubing) and then rejoin with your ghetto-rigged reservoir.

[ZightZar]

congratz, you just completely confused me alpaca :) i have absolutly no clue as to what you said. are you saying that with what comes with that kit for $65 i will have a complete (if cheap) watercooling system? i think i can still spend a little more, but i think i wanna order from that page cause the price seems pretty cheap.

[AngryAlpaca]

You can't fit a 120mm radiator in your case. That makes it useless. You want two BIM's, a WW, a Hydor L30, a home made reservoir, 4 80 mm fans, 4 80mm shrouds for those BIM's, a few feet of 3/8" ID tubing, a few feet of 1/2" ID tubing, and I think that's it.

[bigsoomo]

aquastealth is pretty good...you can always upgrade they have options u can choose from

[ZightZar]

O_o

i think im starting to consider just ordering from aquastealth, cause i dont understand much of diy'ing it...

sorry, no offence to you alpaca, but i just dont understand about all that you were telling me. by bim's im assuming you mean black ice micros, by ww im assuming you are talking about waterblocks, by hydor l30 im assuming you mean a pump, i have no idea of why i need shrouds nor what they do, i have 3 80mm fans so i know ill just have to get one more, but i dont know why i need 4 80mm fans, by home made reservoir im thinking just a jar filled with water with a tube coming outta it but i know thats wrong... see, im just really confused :/

[AngryAlpaca]

No, the jar with the tube is right. (Surprised?) The Whitewater is the best waterblock that you can get (RBX/WW close enough, the WW is cheaper though...) the Hydor L30 is a good pump, the Black Ice Micros are the only 80mm radiator I know of. Shrouds are used to distance the fan from the radiator, to eliminate the deadspot. Don't bother with buying another 80mm fan, 3 will suffice. 2 would, but more would be better.

[ZightZar]

Alpaca you are a saint :D putting up with my noobishness

now, 2 more questions and ill hopefully be leaving yall alone...

1.) about how much will all of this cost (the Whitewater Waterblock, the Hydor L30 Pump, the 2 Black Ice Micros, the 2 80mm Shrouds, the Tubing [still kinda sketchy on this part], and the Reservior [kinda scared about making my own, so i might just buy one if i can learn quick like how to make my own 'reliable' one])??

2.) where can i get this all from one place (hate ordering from multiple places...) that has a good rep and low prices (shipping and whatnot)?

[AngryAlpaca]

Ohh... Not good. Oh well, you can only afford one BIM. It's 80mm by 80mm by 50mm of copper, with lots of air in there... But no, it's 44 dollars... So, one BIM, one WW, Via Aqua 1300 (It turns out, due to the ridiculous expense of the BIM, that you'll have to settle for this pump) Shrouds... Hmm... I can't find any 80mm shrouds for sale. Making a reservoir is no big deal. It isn't really a sensitive part... I'm using an old margarine container with 3 holes in it. Just buy some 1/2" ID 3/4" OD tubing. 8 feet or so, I'm guessing. Buy 10 hose clamps. www.dtekcustoms.com has it all. I've got to go to bed, if you have MSN messenger you can add me and I can help. I'll PM you my e-mail address.

[vonkaar]

You don't really need a shround on a BIM.
You don't necessarily need a reservoir. In your case (and case), I would go with a T-line over a res.
If you are going to order everything from Dtek (as AngryAlpaca suggested) order 1/2" clearflex60.
BIM, WW, Clearflex60, L30, clamps, water-wetter... you are good to go.

The BIM will set you back a lot more than you are probably willing to spend. I would seriously try and figure out a way to fit a small 120mm radiator in your case. I promise... no matter how small you think your case is, someone has installed water-cooling in one smaller.

[johan851]

I saw some pictures of the LanBoy - could you possibly mount a 120mm fan as a blowhole on top of your case? A BIX or a JR120 might fit up on the top. A little work, perhaps, but the performance gain will be worth it. Also, if you're tight on cash, go with a scratch and dent waterblock from DTek for only about $30 or so. I think they have some TC-4's.

[ZightZar]

yeah, i was just about to ask about the tc-4 they have at dtek... they only $39 when the ww for a p4 is like $55...

and no, you caint fit a 120mm blowhole on top (already tried b4 i made my window fan), the optical drives stick out about 2" farther so a 120mm fan is just about 1" too big :(

[ZightZar]

ok, so from dtek heres what im getting, so yall tell me if thats all i need, and if it sounds good for my price range... anyways, here it is:

Black Ice Micro 80mm PC radiator BLACK
Price $44.00

Via 1300 Pump (370GPH) 1/2"
Price $22.99

ClearFlex High Grade Tubing: 1/2
Price $1.50 each x13 $19.50 (for 13')

TC-4 Poly Topped Block P-4 (478) 1/2"
Price $46.99

RedLine Water Wetter (4oz)
Price $3.50

T-Fitting 1/2"
Price $0.99

Your Cart Subtotal Before Discounts: $137.97
Cart Discount: $94.18
Your Cart Subtotal: $43.79
Your Card Subtotal Plus Shipping: $54.83


So, thats all i need? sound pretty good for my low budget watercooling correct?

Edit: Mwhahahahah by buying more tubing they give me a even BIGGER discount!!! haha, instead of getting 8 feet, i got 13 feet and dropped my price almost $30... like i said, MWHAHAHAHAH

[E-Licious]

Huh?? What's with the $60 cart discount? If you are really getting all that for $80 shipped, I'd say thats a sweet deal! It'll outperform the aquarius and drive bay WC kit, for less $. It will probably perform close to your air cooled setup, but at a much quieter level.

P.S. don't forget to buy hose clamps. Your tubes probably won't fly off on ya, but why take the chance?

[ZightZar]

cool. and whats the deal with "t-line" or t fittings? i head you can get one of these instead of a res, and just wondering if its a good idea for me? also at dtek, where are the hose clamps located? cant find em :/

[ZightZar]

and i have no clue as to whats up with the discound but by god im happy im getting it :D

[ZightZar]

and would twisty ties work (not really twisty ties, but those make shift police handcuffs? where you stick the 'tail' through the little box and it clicks down and is hard as hell to undo?)

cause i have the exact right amount of money for it now, and if i put the extra $7.50 then it throughs it all off (yeah, i found where the clamps are located at dtek...).

[E-Licious]

The proper term is zip ties. And yes, I guess they would work. I think there are some other people on here that use them.

The T-line is where you would fill/bleed the system from. You need either a T-line, or a resivoir, or you can't even fill the system to begin with. Also, even if you did manage to get the system running without a T-line or res, you would have no place to collect the air bubbles, which a T-line or res will do. A T-fitting would be where you would connect a T-line. It's basically a hollow T with barbed openings to plug your tubing into.

And about your discount. That's a 46% discount! On the website, it says there's a 10% discount on all orders over $100, but that's actually officially over as of yesterday (jan. 1st). You better hope they honor that crazy discount, because they have the right to cancel your order. But, I'm sure if they did cancel your order, you could ask them to give you the 10% discount and they'd probably agree to it.

[ZightZar]

ok, so now that i added that t-fitting to my cart (and hey, it looks like a t :D lol) thats all i need? nothing else? and it will work? im done?

[gungeek]

You can buy a Tee fitting at lowes, home depot, etc. for $1-$2. That is a huge discount, I wouldn't count on the order being filled.

[bigsoomo]

yeah home depot got a bunch of fittings n tubes

[E-Licious]

You'll need something to cap the T-line, otherwise water will come flying out of it. I'm not sure exactly what people use, as I've never really looked into T-lines. But here's a pic of a T-line setup, so you have an idea.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/scanido/images/side.jpg

And no, that's not my setup. It's just the cleanest WC setup I've ever seen, and I really like it for it's simplicity.

Also, they may not even notice the 46% discount. They may just get the order, give the parts list and address to the shipping department, and the total, and CC info to the billing department, and call that order done. I wouldn't be surprised if the order did go through. But I also think they'll cancel the order if they notice it.

[bigsoomo]

you wouldnt happen to know what series that rad is would you?

[E-Licious]

nope

[ZightZar]

think this might work for capping the t??
http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=104&strVarSel=&strCompare=

[E-Licious]

I doubt it.

[ZightZar]

oh well, ill figure it out :) maybe ill wrap a cork in some tape and just tape her shut or something...

and dont that pump look like a Eheim 1048?? at lease thats what i thought is was, but couldnt zoom in all that much...

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
...the Black Ice Micros are the only 80mm radiator I know of.
somewhat academic given the OP's astounding discount (assuming he gets it...), but Thermochill do an 80mm rad also - as reviewed by Bill Adams here
http://overclockers.com/articles778/

i don't know how it compares to a BIM, but it certainly has the major advantage of taking 1/2" tubing .....

they also do a 92mm rad which i suspect might fit into the front of a lanboy ..... http://www.antec-inc.com/images/400/Lan_Inside2.jpg

looking at the mechanical drawing (http://www.antec-inc.com/pdf/drawings/LANBOY_en.pdf) i suspect a bigger rad might well fit on the back.....

no idea how readily available they are on your side of the pond though....

[E-Licious]

Damn that's right. I forgot the BIM has 3/8" barbs. You'll need 2 converters if you go that route then. Just find 1/2" to 3/8" and you should be cool. Home depot should have em. Or they are right here (http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=72) .

[ZightZar]

yeah, just realized that the bim are 3/8" and every thing else is 1/2", so i just hope that home depot or lowes has some 1/2" -> 3/8" reducers... dtek didnt have any 80 or 92mm thermochills, so i guess thats outta the option :/ oh well, im happy with my discount heh :) i just hope they dont cancel the order.

[E-Licious]

Don't forget to buy a small section of 3/8" tubing when you go get your reducers, or you won't have any tube to connect the reducer to your rad :p

[ZightZar]

damn your right.... thing 1 foot of 3/8" tubing will do the trick?

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by ZightZar
yeah, just realized that the bim are 3/8" and every thing else is 1/2", so i just hope that home depot or lowes has some 1/2" -> 3/8" reducers... dtek didnt have any 80 or 92mm thermochills, so i guess thats outta the option :/ oh well, im happy with my discount heh :) i just hope they dont cancel the order.

i think dangerden are their only north american distributor...
http://www.thermochill.com/where2buy.htm
http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Radiators/thermochill.asp

[MoreGooder]

I would advise against Water Wetter. If you review the boards here you will see that Water Wetter puts an ugly stain on your tubing. Just use a small amount (10% or so) of antifreeze (cheep) and you can skip the Water Wetter.

[vonkaar]

Thermochill would probably perform better than BIM.

[AngryAlpaca]

They'll probably perform about the same. You DO need a shroud. The deadspot on an 80mm fan is huge (relative to the size of a fan) Also, with an 80mm rad, you need all the cooling you can get. Nice discount! Also, I don't think the price difference between the TC4 and the WW will be worth the cooling loss, but, it's your system. Water wetter's only disadvanatages are its smell, and its possible staining. Staining doesn't occur for years if you use the right amount. Antifreeze is a poor fluid for cooling. Take your pick. The Lanboy is HUGE compared to this: http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75814

[vonkaar]

It's still only an 8cm cube. The 'dead spot' in your typical 80mm fan may be critical on heatsinks, but it is much less of a factor on radiators. A 4cm diameter 'hole' in a radiator that small would likely make so small of a difference in cooling potential, it's not worth the extra space. Even if you did use a shroud, you are only shrinking the 'dead' spot. You would have to go fairly far out to completely remove it. With a push/pull configuration, in his size case... going to all that trouble for 0.8° difference seems stupid.

Ninety percent of the people that use shrouds on radiators are more likely doing so to 'capture' the airflow than they are attempting to kill deadspots. Shrouds are primarily used to simply attach the fan to the radiator, 'dead spot' comes second. I won't argue that the whole 'dead spot' problem exists, but it shouldn't be a critical factor in designing a first-time compact WC-system.

[AngryAlpaca]

The deadspot is approximately 2cm across, I believe, and that means that around 13 square centimetres of the front isn't being used, of 64. That's around 20% of a loss of cooling capacity. With an 80mm radiator, he needs all the cooling he can get from it. Also, he has PLENTY of room to add a shroud in. I don't think it's critical, but I think, seeing as the shroud would be easy to get, that it would be worth it.

[vonkaar]

No. If we assume that the fan is flush mounted against the surface of the radiator and that there is exactly a 2cm 'dead spot' on the front side, it may be said that there is a 20% loss of surface area, not 'cooling capacity.' If 20% is correct, that's an even smaller area than I imagined. It's been proven that these radiators shed a considerable amount of heat, with almost no airflow. A push/pull configuration that utilizes 80% of the surface area of a radiator would provide much more than 80% of the 'cooling capacity.' Even the 'dead spot' will radiate a lot more heat than your assumption of 'zero'. The remaining 80% will naturally 'cool' better than the space with little airflow, but the difference will be much less than you are thinking.

A 24cm radiator (ex, caprice size) with 2 120mm fans mounted on each side will have much more than 20% of it's surface area lost due to 'dead spots.' You lose airflow on the corners of the 'square' fans, as well as the airflow 'dead spot' in the hubs. Switching over to a 1" shroud on each side will not kill the dead spots, as much as you think... nor will it provide dramatically better cooling. Going much further out will reduce the airflow-less areas, but you not likely have justifiably better cooling.

In his case, space is at a premium. In your model of physics, he would need to completely remove the 'dead spot' in his radiator to get back the 20% of supposed cooling capacity. To do so, you are looking at 2-3 inches of 'shroud'... on each side. That's a foot long radiator assembly... and it's still only an 80mm radiator. If you have room for 12" of radiator, you should have no problem putting a 'standard' heatercore in.

I look at this in a much different light than you. If he is forced to use a tiny radiator, his cooling will be sub-par, at best. In automotive terms, adding 10hp to a 120hp Hyundai seems silly if you could spend the same amount and buy a 300hp V8. Maximizing the tiny performance he'll get out of a miniature radiator is silly if he can simply fit a better radiator in the same space. If he has room for a fan, a shroud, a radiator, a shroud and then a fan... he surely has room for a better radiator.

[sandman001]

But, where the air does go through you're getting more airflow because it's going through a smaller area.

You still get the same airflow through it, not worth worrying about IMO.

[AngryAlpaca]

No, it wouldn't be worth it, to add a shroud, that can be acquired for a small price? Spacewise, it's width or depth... He has plenty of room to add a long radiator, but not much for a wide one, seeing as he has 80mm holes, and he apparently doesn't want to mod... With a 24cm radiator it isn't quite so critical to get all the performance he can get. You won't have "justifiably" better cooling by adding a shroud on something that massive? Of course not! You could probably remove one fan and still have enough cooling. Okay, maybe my numbers were a bit too high, but, for something that is rated to cool 275 watts, and costs 44 dollars for a second one, he needs to squeeze every last bit of performance from it (Unless, of course, it ends up costing more than a second radiator, in which case he should just get the second radiator)

[vonkaar]

So, you are no longer saying he'd get 20% 'better cooling capacity', it would simply be 'better'? Add up what you are saying...

Fan1 - 1.5 inch
Shroud1 - 3 inches (sufficient length to completely remove dead spot)
BIM - 2 inches
Shroud2 - 3 inches
Fan2 - 1.5 inch
total: 11 inches (or 10, if he uses 25mm fans)

Go to newegg and look inside a lanboy. Do you realize that 12" from the front, you are more than within the area that the motherboard occupies? Would you justify not being able to use any expansion slots (besides AGP) by lowering your water-temperature by 0.5°? That's how far back your little radiator assembly would take you.

You are splitting straws so thin, you aren't even noticing two very obvious facts:

1) The front grill on the lanboy sucks. It provides very little airflow, regardless of the size of the radiator.

2) His hard drive bay is removable. That is clearly enough space to fit one of at least 20 different inexpensive heatercores into the front. Saves money and cools better.

You are transposing the 'actual' reason for shrouding your radiator with the need to remove a deadspot. In every WC system I've built, I've never even given the 'dead spot' issue more than 5 minutes of thought. Even commercial radiator shrouds are more designed for 'installation' than 'dead spot removal.' In short, the dead-spot matters very little... *especially* in a radiator that small. It can only handle very small heatloads, increasing the surface area by a supposed 20% will do *very* little to help.

It's just *much* better to figure out a way to fit a bigger radiator in place of a tiny rad. Spending time and money on little tweaks and fixes on a Hyundai of a radiator is foolish.

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by vonkaar

Go to newegg and look inside a lanboy. Do you realize that 12" from the front, you are more than within the area that the motherboard occupies? Would you justify not being able to use any expansion slots (besides AGP) by lowering your water-temperature by 0.5°? That's how far back your little radiator assembly would take you.

Y

you're not kidding! - it's only 16.5" deep - you'd be about 5" from trhe back of the case....

i'd forgotten that the hd cage is removeable... that definitely improves the options a lot.... it's definitely worth trying for a bigger (& 1/2") rad in that case.....

edit: as it's 8.25" wide, i reckon getting a pro-core & shroud + 38mm fan'd be fairly easy - only about 6" of the height taken up if it was on it's side (with the tanks by the door...)

[AngryAlpaca]

I see. You thought I was still talking two fans. I realized a while ago that that wouldn't be practical.

[ZightZar]

ok, well cant i just make a shroud? casue the only shrouds im finding at dtek are 120mm ones... also, i got a question for how the fans will go onto the rad... hopfully yall will understand this pic:

http://zman.web1000.com/pictures/case.jpg

is that right or should i be pointing the fans a different way? note, the pics arnt 100% right, so give a little freeway ;)

[AngryAlpaca]

Don't worry about the two fans. You should probably have the fans pulling fresh air in from the outside. You can just make a shroud. http://www.overclockers.com/tips1022/ this is a good how to. Or, a gutted 80mm fan might do the job.

[vonkaar]

I'd freaking quit with the shroud... I *promise* you'll get better performance with 2 fans over 1 fan with a shroud.

[ZightZar]

taking out the hdd rack wouldnt be good cause i need my floppy zip and both hdds....

[ZightZar]

i dont really care about the shroud, im more concerned about how i should put my fans on the rad... have no clue yet.

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by ZightZar
ok, well cant i just make a shroud? casue the only shrouds im finding at dtek are 120mm ones... also, i got a question for how the fans will go onto the rad... hopfully yall will understand this pic:

http://zman.web1000.com/pictures/case.jpg

is that right or should i be pointing the fans a different way? note, the pics arnt 100% right, so give a little freeway ;)

all the fans want to be reversed - i.e in at front and out at the back....

i guess all those drives blow the "remove the drive tray" option out of the water..... :(

best bet'd be 2 38mm fans on the rad... since they develop more pressure than 25mm ones.

[vonkaar]

How opposed are you to cutting your case?

[ZightZar]

not really opposed at all. made myself a fan hole in the window, but as long as it wont look ugly or that i have to cut the hdd rack (my whole rack is filled, so i cant get rid of it), i have no qualms about cutting it.

[ZightZar]

so what would i actually be cutting?