View Full Version : REAL Hardware!
for those of you who don't read the front page its fairly rare when we see hardware tests that aren't; A. Fan, B. Heatsink, or C. Heatsink and Fan combo. ;)
Mr B (Brian Berryman) got a couple review samples from www.newegg.com of 9600pro and 5700ultra video cards. his first review of the 9600pro is up here (http://overclockers.com/articles922). the 5700 is due to come shortly.
Congrats to Brian and the OC staff on getting some nice hardware and producing an interesting review. I look forward to the 5700 as i've been pretty well out of it as far as nVidia since the ATI 9500 days.
Keep up the good work B http://www.maxvla.com/smiley/cool.gif
Thanks for the kind words.
The nVidia review is very similar to the ATi one, as the cards performed almost equal in all areas. There's a bit of "cut and paste", at the beginning of the 5700 article, where I outline the article, the testing procedures used, and system specs.
Joe and I want to broaden the scope of items we look at, and this seemed like a good place to start.
I'm thinking of a motherboard (or two) next. Perhaps a comparo between my Abit IC7 and ??? Or the NF7-S and ???
Or both....
I've got a PSU coming in about a week or so. A 500W "silent" job, that according to the spec sheet, puts out an ungodly amount of juice.
We'll see just how "quiet" it is, and I'll plug everything I own into it, and see what the voltages do. :D
Lessee...I'll put it in the the full tower-duallie rig, and plug a couple IDE cards in the PCI slots, plug in four or six optical drives, and add a set of HDD's to the two in RAID-0 now...yank both sets of dual cathodes from the other rigs, and stuff those in there....it's already got 12 fans going...but I'll try to find room for another half dozen or so...bla bla bla...:p :cool:
Brian
FizzledFiend
01-06-04, 06:45 PM
I Belive I caught a glimps of this PSU in an e-mail you sent me regaurding the EL mod contest...I am curious about this PSU sort of a novel fan situation if i am talking about the right PSU...I can only imagine that your silent test is null and void with all those fans plugged into it...as you recall i run an ungodly amount of HDD and power is always a concern...anyways looking forward to your reviews!
cmcquistion
01-06-04, 10:18 PM
Good job, as usual, with your articles Brian. Keep up the good work!
P.S. I hope that PSU you're getting isn't a Vantec "Stealth" PSU. I got their 520 watt "Stealth" and it is the loudest PSU I have ever owned. I modded it about 5 times to make it quieter. Finally gave up and bought a Fortron FSP300 for about 1/4 the cost. Modded its fan for 5V and found a real Stealth PSU.
DayUSeX
01-06-04, 11:09 PM
yeah thnx for review hardware!!! a good opinion from a fellow overclocker is always greatly appreciated
Papa_Legba
01-06-04, 11:31 PM
I've been reading the front page for years now and I can't recall, off the top of my head, a reviewer receiving an item from NewEgg before, perhaps I'm wrong.
Does this have anything to do with all the referrals they must be getting? For those who aren't aware, if you visit NewEgg with this link http://www.newegg.com/index.asp?refer=0vercl0ckers it benefits Overclockers.com. I have it in my favorites as the NewEgg link. I have also, when prompted been filling in the 'where did you hear about us' when prompted on some transactions.
Either way, good articles.
hkgonra
01-07-04, 01:51 PM
Keep up the good work Mr.B :D
I just don't understand why you DID NOT OVERCLOCK THEM. Come on the web site is called Overclockers.com..... Just add coolbits and stir lightly.
Mr.Guvernment
01-09-04, 04:06 PM
because they may have had to return them and did not want to risk damaging them.,....
Originally posted by Mr.Guvernment
because they may have had to return them and did not want to risk damaging them.,....
Bah! Any company submitting hardware to a overclocking site expecting...
1 -- the hardware to NOT be overclocked
and
2 -- the hardware to be returned working
must have shipped the wrong items intended for another hardware review site...
:p
DayUSeX
01-09-04, 05:14 PM
LOL yeah agree pinky. Though I guess that can kind of cheat reviews, as i know some companys send the most over clocker friendly card they can, when in reality batch results equal nothing like that./
Originally posted by Mr.Guvernment
because they may have had to return them and did not want to risk damaging them.,....
That's in large part, why I didn't o/c them.
It was the first time reviewing something from newegg, who is now a major sponsor out front.
I had no "authorization" so to speak, to attempt anything like that, so....
With me still being somewhat "new" to reviewing, this being the first time with newegg allowing us to review hardware, and they being the "hand that feeds us" out front, I decided to play this one straight.
There were other reasons too, and in the article due out Monday (1/12/04), I delve into the whys....
It's a six page comparo, using the two cards just reviewed (9600 Pro, and FX5700U), and my old Ti4200.
However.... I have been given "license", so to speak, to wind 'em up in the future. :D
But yeah, I didn't have the stones to pull the trigger....this time. Next time I'm goin' in with both guns blazin'. :cool:
B.
Originally posted by DayUSeX
LOL yeah agree pinky. Though I guess that can kind of cheat reviews, as i know some companys send the most over clocker friendly card they can, when in reality batch results equal nothing like that./
They were sealed retail boxes....woulda been tricky for them to know just how "overclocker friendly" they were, with the factory seals still in place.
Well I hope newegg sells them as referbs now and not as new..............
9mmCensor
01-09-04, 10:35 PM
I think this is great. Real HONEST reviews, by a REAL honest review.
Keep 'em coming Mr. B.
PoX Freak
01-11-04, 12:06 AM
Really good reviews, especially when you throw the Ti4200 into the mix.
For some reason though, i kinda liked the coffee cup review also. It was a refreshing idea that re-sparked my interests in overclocking, and was just a load of laughs around the office.
PoX
Hmmm, is this fair? That is comparing the 5700 Ultra to a 9600 Pro? I mean comparing the newest top of the line mid level Nvidia card the 5700 Ultra to the 9600 Pro, shouldn't it have been a 9600XT which is the newest top of the line mid level card form ATI? Also that the 9600XT is cheaper then the 5700 Ultra by a good 10 to 15 percent....
I realize that newegg.com sent you the cards, so you reviewed what you had. I’m guessing the 9600XT would have most likely won most if not every round.
With that said I was most entertained with the review.
mR. STuPiD
01-13-04, 11:42 PM
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing Zazuk. Anyway, good job on the review Mr. B. It refreshing to see some reviews nowdays that aren't done with coughhandpickedcough factory samples.
I think more than anything this review proves that having a Ti4200 is still a good thing. ;)
hkgonra
01-14-04, 07:30 AM
Just my 2 cents , I had a ti4200 64mb and recently upgraded to a 9600pro . The only game I play is America's Army but I did notice higher fps with the Radeon. The 4200 would drop into the 20's every now and then and I don't like to see my frames ever go below 60, they don't with the 9600.
I just got around to reading this article today.
Only real issue that may need to be addressed in future articles is the use of non-standard, overclocked PCs for benchmarking. Having 2 different processors running 2 different bus speeds just throws too many variables into the mix. it's common practice to use only non-overclocked/default machines when doing comparison reviews so the results are consistent with those one might find elsewhere on the internet.
cmcquistion
01-14-04, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Pinky
I just got around to reading this article today.
Only real issue that may need to be addressed in future articles is the use of non-standard, overclocked PCs for benchmarking. Having 2 different processors running 2 different bus speeds just throws too many variables into the mix. it's common practice to use only non-overclocked/default machines when doing comparison reviews so the results are consistent with those one might find elsewhere on the internet.
True, but this is Overclockers.com. Mr B is writing for this audience (overclockers), so I think comparing overclocked machines is ok. I would have preferred machines both running the same FSB, but a non-professional reviewer, using his own machines, can only do so much.
Originally posted by cmcquistion
True, but this is Overclockers.com. Mr B is writing for this audience (overclockers), so I think comparing overclocked machines is ok. I would have preferred machines both running the same FSB, but a non-professional reviewer, using his own machines, can only do so much.
Precisely. ;)
This is also why I've got a major woody to get a 800 bus P4 (or one that will o/c to that FSB. So I can "level the playing field". However, no income = no upgrade.
This is why I rambled on for half a page on the differences between the two systems, and didn't ignore this blatantly obvious fact. As I mentioned in the article, I'd love to get a 800 bus chip, just to see what happens with those PC Mark Memory Test scores....even with one and a half hands tied behind it's back, the P4/IC7 blew away the AMD rig on that score. Every time.
I got a curious e-mail from a fellow this morning, which I can't believe. I'll post it, and my reply below;
===========================
Subject: video punchout
hey brian
i read your article on the video card match... and i have to say.... very nice comparisons, EXCEPT, the gf4ti4200 had a very unfair disadvantage over the other 2 cards... it was a 4x agp card as opposed to the 8x agp form that the other 2 cards come in. the gf4ti4200 DOES come in a 8x agp form as well, why not test that one and stack it up against the other 2 8xagp cards? would it be possible for you to do the benchmarks using a 8x agp version of the card so that we could truly compare? i know not many people are going to go "hmm, i should get a 8x 9600pro... or wait, maybe the 4x gf4ti4200 is better???" c'mon!!! or... what if we take the fx5700 and the 9600pro and we handicap them to 4x agp while we run the benchmarks??? that would be more fair, wouldn't it?
i am sorry to say, but when you do biased comparisons like this, you remind me of tomshardware. come think of it, you probobly should've used the 64mb 4x agp version of the gf4ti4200 to show the "dominance" of the other 2 cards over the gf4
i am truly dissappointed,
(name withheld)
My reply:
Biased?!? How?!?!
I stated very plainly that the card was at a "disadvantage", being old silicon running at AGP 2.0 spec, not AGP 3.0.
I mentioned that it was the "bottom of the barrel" of the Ti family.
The Ti4200 was thrown into the mix, as its;
a) My personal card, and the best I have.
b) Something a lot of people are still using, and considering upgrading from (myself included).
So, including it in the comparo wasn't trying to detract from the other two, or show the Ti4200 gets "smoked", but merely how it fares in relation to the newer GPUs with higher clocks both core and DDR, at default settings.
I could have handicapped the two better cards (9600P and 5700U) to 4x, but that wasn't the goal I was after. The goal I was after was from a "Joe Sixpack" view, of "This is what you'll get if you plug the card in and set everything to "Auto" and run these tests.". I mentioned this too...well, not the "Joe Sixpack" thing, but that I was after a baseline, of what these cards run without tweaking. How many people are going to pony up the dough for an 8x card when they don't have an 8x slot to plug it in? It's not likely someone with an AGP 2.0 only board is gonna shell out the money for one, to run it handicapped like that. So why should I test it like that?
I'm well aware the Ti4200 comes in a AGP 3.0 (8X) flavour....are you buying it for me? I cannot afford shipping for one right now, let alone the card itself. My current status w/ Newegg is I can get two items a month for evaluation/review only. I got the two cards (9600P and 5700U). I've already picked two items for next month... If you really, really, want, I'll get a 8x Ti for the month following....if you want to wait for 2+ months for the update.
As they stood, in this light, with all things set to "Auto", the Ti4200 I have held up well in the older benchmarks. Frankly, I'm surprised that you're surprised. I did a lot of reading of other reviews and comparos before doing mine, to get a feel of what and how I should put this together. Of course the Ti4200 is gonna get smoked in the DX9 tests....it's not DX9 compatable!
My numbers mirror the majority of those articles elsewhere, that ran these tests the same way I did. For all three cards.
If anything, I might be accused of rehashing other articles around the .net, and not doing anything "new"......... but not bias.
http://www.overclockers.com/articles928/index06.asp
Please reread this last page again...I'm wondering if you missed it the first time through.....
Brian Berryman
Staff Writer,
www.overclockers.com
Forums Moderator,
www.ocforums.com
"Learn to Overclock @ Overclockers.com"
================================
One of the two things coming "next month" (well, I've yet to hear from Newegg, but I'd imagine it would be no problem...) .... Ok..let me rephrase...one of the things I've requested for next month is a 9600XT, as I've gotten inundated with e-mails stating I should have tested that instead of the 9600 Pro.
My next question is...an open question here:
If the 9600XT scores higher than the 5700U, am I going to get an avalanche of e-mails from the nVidia camp, saying now I should get and run a FXxx00 Uber Ultra Platinum Sample instead??
I'd wager yes.
But we'll see, if/when we cross that bridge, eh? :p
B.
cmcquistion
01-14-04, 02:20 PM
Brian, I'll give you a little piece of information that someone gave me, once, when I was being hammered about an article I wrote:
Consider how stupid the average person is, and then realize that 50% of the population is even dumber than that. (To make matters worse, this lower 50% make up the majority of the whiners and complainers in the world.)
When you are a reviewer/writer, you will often get people saying negative things about your work, because they were too dumb to understand it, or too lazy to read it thoroughly. Goes with the territory, I'm learning.
I like to look at the feedback in terms of percentages. For example, I recieved over 100 emails, regarding my Quiet PC series of articles. About 90% of all the emails were mostly positive (may have included some constructive feedback.) Less than 10% of all the emails were negative, or mostly negative.
From what I've seen around the forums, I think the feedback about your work is largely positive. Probably well over 90% and very close to 100%.
Keep up the good work and don't let the naysayers get you down.
True enough...thanks, my friend. ;)
[rant mode on]
Bias is just a heavyweight word to be tossing about like that, and it struck a bit of a nerve.
*Mr B looks around computer room*
My main PC: AMD, nvidia card.
My server (duallie): AMD, ATi card.
My back up main/test rig: Intel, nVidia card.
School PC (which will upgrade/replace the following (wife's) one eventually): Intel, nvidia card.
Wife's PC: Intel, onboard vid.
Next planned upgrade: 9700/9800 Pro for my main rig.
Biased towards WHOM?!?!?
Biased would have been if I raised the AGP bus on one of those cards during testing, or overclocked the core/memory.
I'm not a sheep, and do not answer to AMD, Intel, ATi, not nVidia.
I answer to one. Joe Citarella.
Biased indeed. :mad:
[/end rant]
Ok...I've got that off my chest. I now return you to your normal thread in progress... :D
B.
I thought the article was pretty good. A little cheese ball but good none the less. It would be nice to see OC.com doing MoBo reviews again.
I am getting a little turned off by all the waterblock reviews. It iseems like every one is a good choice if....... I remember when we saw reviews that said "This is a complete watse of cash, Don't Buy It!!!". But that was back in the day when advertising and skip, Joe, Ed, and Dan paid for everything that they reviewed.
I think your review was honest and lighthearted. I liked it. I would have liked it even more if you would have used current games with benchmark capibilities rather than synthetic bench marks. And instead of how many FPS each card can do but instead how much eye candy I can turn on @ 1024x768 and still have frame rates in the 60's.
In other words I want to know:
With this system XXXX video card can do 4xAA and 8xAF @ 1024x768 in Call of Duty and still keep frame rates in the 60's while yyyy video card can only do 4xAA and 6xAF and still maintain those framerates.
I don't want to know synthetic benchmarks as I tend not to trust them. And I don't want to know how many hundreds of FPS it can play Quake III @ 640x480 without AA or AF enabled.
Keep in mind this is meant as consrutive critisism and praise. Not as a rant.
Good work Mr. B and keep it up.
9mmCensor
01-14-04, 09:13 PM
Read the review comparison, and great job. When ever people tell me unfounded lies about my work or opinions I just say "screw 'em".
We could only wish that people were as honest, fair and open as you and the other overclcokers.com staff are. (PERIOD).
Unfortunately, my "selection" of late/recent games is very limited. Actually, my entire "selection" of games is... :p
Yeah...it was cheezy (the "boxing" theme)...but hey, "it ain't easy bein' cheezy" ... :D I had fun putting it together.
Call of Duty...don't have it. Nor BF'42, America's Army, Warcraft, any of Tom Clancy's stuff....HL, Day of Defeat, RTCW, Hitman (I or II), MOH AA, bla, bla, bla... I've got UT, UT2K3, UII, NOLF2, TR AoD, Duke Nukem Manhattan Project, and after that, we start getting into DX7, 6 and even further back.... :rolleyes:
"Would you like to install Direct X 3 now?" NOOOOOO! :p
So testing things on current games is tough, too. I thought about the benchmarking thing in TR AoD, but passed on it where it got killed off by Eidos (it's rumoured that nVidia pressured them into killing it, but I wasn't sure enough either way to include it).
Those are some fine suggestions Staz ("In other words I want to know:"). I'll bear those in mind as I go forward from here.
Newegg confirmed me for the 9600XT, so I'll run the benches for that like I did for the others, and try to incorporate some of your ideas as well.
B.
hkgonra
01-14-04, 09:57 PM
Mr. B , America's Army is free. :D If you don't have a high-speed connection I would be happy to send you a copy.
I don't even know if it is a good game for testing but I couldn't resist the easy jab.
Not complaining at all, but now that he mentioned it I wouldn't mind seeing more real world tests added to the way you already do it. I like to get as much info as possible.
I'll look into d/ling that overnight tonight/tomorrow night. Thanks!
Actually, wait...I might be a moron. (alright, that's been confirmed previous to now, but...:p )
*shuffles thru a stack of cds*
"MAXIMUM CD, Oct 2002"...America's Army....full demo inside. Hmmmm.. does a 223MB zip file sound about right for the full game? If so, I don't need to d/l it after all. :cool:
Hmmmm...I wonder if I can use some of these other demos for benching??
B.
9mmCensor
01-14-04, 11:11 PM
You could also D/L or find on a CD RtCW Enemy Territory... its free... multiplayer only, but still its the Q3 engine, which is still in use.
Honestly I thought the reviews though honest were poorly written & "throwing in what I had" with regards to the Ti4200 was just a waste of time. You can cut the review by more than half if you cut out the fluf entertainment & a bit more if you take out the DX8 vs DX9 card. That leaves us with 2 DX9 cards tested with DX7, DX8, DX9 Benchmarks & a whole system Benchmark that has no real bearing on the Video Cards. Do these influence my decision to buy video cards? PC Mark 2002 CPU PC Mark 2002 Memory PC Mark 2002 HDD PC Mark 2004Nope, most of these variables can be influenced by better matching of mobo/chipset drivers, CPU drivers & video drvers & playing with the different driving values to obtain the maximum system performance. The review isnt for total system performance but of Video Cards. Making a review that tries to cover all aspects of the PC wasnt what I was expecting when I read "Mid-level Graphics Card Shootout".
Why wasn't there FSAA & Aniso in full effect to compare with the standard tests? Why aren't there any image quality tests or at least screen caps of the same scene? Why no comparisson on the different strengths & limitations of each card with FSAA & Aniso?
Good Luck on the next review:beer:
I dont think throwing the Ti4200 in was a waste of time at all. I have never seen a 9600 or a 5700 run and by comparing them to a card I have seen run(and which I happen to own) I can get a better feel for there performance.
And I think testing them in your rigs is a great idea too. Too many review site test video cards(as well as other hardware) On these 'Super Duper Uber Rigs' that probably only 5%-10% of people actually own. You setups are a nice variation of equipment that I think most of the people here can relate to.
Keep the personal touch in your reviews. It makes them more enjoyable and entertaining to read. It help brings the family atmosphere of the forums out to the main page. This plus the fact that your using real world setups (meaning your rigs ) will make me trust your review more than any others. Your keeping it down to 'our' level.
I do think you need more tests to add to your current selection so that it will bring things more to a real world level. Like others said already, actual games would be nice. That would help people get a better feel for what the card can really do. And FSAA and Aniso tests would be helpful as well since there are some cards(not gonna mention names ;) ) that do great with theses settings off, but when turned up they slow to a crawl.
I think you did a great job and feel like the reviews will keep getting better. :clap:
hkgonra
01-15-04, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by Mr B
I'll look into d/ling that overnight tonight/tomorrow night. Thanks!
Actually, wait...I might be a moron. (alright, that's been confirmed previous to now, but...:p )
*shuffles thru a stack of cds*
"MAXIMUM CD, Oct 2002"...America's Army....full demo inside. Hmmmm.. does a 223MB zip file sound about right for the full game? If so, I don't need to d/l it after all. :cool:
Hmmmm...I wonder if I can use some of these other demos for benching??
B.
That is a very old version , they come out with new ones every few months and when they come out with one it isn't usually a patch type upgrade it is a revamp of the whole game. They are on version 2.0a now. If you want I will send you a CD today. Just let me know. BTW It is almost 700mb.
Also I thought it was VERY informative to include the 4200. I know a get asked all the time from people if they should upgrade various parts. It is helpful to have a review that lets me know if they can save their money or need to upgrade.
Originally posted by Sonny
Honestly I thought the reviews though honest were poorly written & "throwing in what I had" with regards to the Ti4200 was just a waste of time. You can cut the review by more than half if you cut out the fluf entertainment & a bit more if you take out the DX8 vs DX9 card. That leaves us with 2 DX9 cards tested with DX7, DX8, DX9 Benchmarks & a whole system Benchmark that has no real bearing on the Video Cards. Do these influence my decision to buy video cards? PC Mark 2002 CPU PC Mark 2002 Memory PC Mark 2002 HDD PC Mark 2004Nope, most of these variables can be influenced by better matching of mobo/chipset drivers, CPU drivers & video drvers & playing with the different driving values to obtain the maximum system performance. The review isnt for total system performance but of Video Cards. Making a review that tries to cover all aspects of the PC wasnt what I was expecting when I read "Mid-level Graphics Card Shootout".
Thank you for your critique. I'm not being sarcastic when I say this... Like I mentioned in the first page of this thread, I'm still a bit green when it comes to doing this (writing comprehensive reviews). This is how I learn.
I included the system benches for a couple reasons. One, I was curious to see if the graphics card would or would not have any effect on these "non-graphics" scores. They obviously do.
So, now that I've proved that, why include them? Let's compare the two DX9 cards to a pair of famous basketball players;
9600 Pro = Larry Bird
5700U = Michael Jordan
Both were phoenominal players, and were keys to their respective teams winning several championships during their careers. They went about it in very different ways, however.
Jordan (5700U) would go out and score 40 or 50 points, and carry his team (computer). He'd get 40 points, and everyone else would get 15.
Bird (9600 Pro), while possessing the ability to also score 40 or 50, more often than not, used other talents to make the rest of his team (computer) better players. He'd usually score 35, but the rest of the players on his team would notch 20 points.
The 9600 Pro, while scoring lower (just slightly) on most of the true graphics tests, showed it was able to make the entire system better, across the board in these tests. This is why I included them.
Why wasn't there FSAA & Aniso in full effect to compare with the standard tests? Why aren't there any image quality tests or at least screen caps of the same scene? Why no comparisson on the different strengths & limitations of each card with FSAA & Aniso?
Good Luck on the next review:beer:
Points well raised, and taken. Again, this is how I learn, and grow. Thoughts and ideas noted for reference.
Thank you.
B.
I'm glad you dont see what I posted as a put down:beer:
The other parts of the system can be improved by better matching of the different(MoBo,CPU,AGP,BUS Master, etc.) drivers to match the video card drivers. The ability to change driving values, individual latencies plus more hidden features thru WPCREDIT & WPCRSET. The software is free & so are the PCR files that you will need.
I guess it all boils down to what we think is important to ourselves when we read a review when researching new products that we want to buy, my Ti4800SE is getting old. We are all tweakers in this forum & we all know how to improve the different aspects of our 'puters. Like how JoeC writes his reviews, always shows the products strengths & weaknesses & way to improve overall performance without forgetting the main concern of the product review.
Originally posted by Sonny
I'm glad you dont see what I posted as a put down:beer:
There's criticism, and constructive criticism. I'm not naive (or blind) enough to not know the difference. ;)
One might say "You suck as a reviewer." Ok, fine. That's your opinion.
Someone else might say, "You suck as a reviewer because....", well, that's better.
Then there's your post, which was (more or less), "You could improve, and here's how...."
I'll take the latter any day of the week. ;)
B.
Hey B,
Great read, and if you would check your other home once in awhile you would see I have set up a high speed files section for clan members and staff ;)
America's Army 2.0 Full install is on there which is the latest version of the game. Let me know if you would like a more direct link :)
J :cool:
I think the articles were very informative. Comparing newer mid-range DX9 cards to the most powerful series of dx8 cards, the GF4 Tis, is good because it shows how far tech has come and proves that there is finally a series of capable midrange DX9 cards.
However, I stress it would probably be better to get a 5900XT or scarf up a remaining 9800NP, as they offer better performance (30-50%) for only marginally higher prices.
For that old Palomino or Willamette rig with a GF2 GTS or GF3, it's probably a good buy though. :D
any idea if we will see more hardware in the future? it would be great to have a place on the web that reviews a variety of parts that could actually be trusted.
LOL...oh yeah. Chris, ask and ye shall receive;
Already submitted a PSU review (should be posted w/in the next day or so)
Woking w/ a 9600XT right now, as a follow up to the 3 way comparo (will get it's own review, but will include comparo info)
I've got an Abit AN7 sitting, waiting...review/comparo to the NF7-S.
3 items in route from Directron...
3 items in route from www.jab-tech.com...
I've also got one of those "multi purpose" gizmos that sits in a CD bay... fan controller, front ports, 6 in 1 card reader, temp monitor, food processor (Ok...everything but that...LOL). I'm having issues with that item, and am unsure if it's me, or the item is defective... There's ZERO documentation/instructions on how to operate the item, either hard copy with the item, on the driver CD, or online. :rolleyes: I cannot get the temp monitor to function properly, and one of the fan controllers burnt out instantly. :eek:
I've spent a few hours "Googling" (amongst others) looking for info on this item...The manufacturer doesn't even have info on the item at their site. :rolleyes:
But yeah...lots of stuff in the works. ;)
wowzers. you have a regular job on top of all this? ;)
Originally posted by Maxvla
wowzers. you have a regular job on top of all this? ;)
No. I got laid off in November. I am going to school part time nights, and some classes are going to overlap next few weeks...
From the 27th of this month, to the 9th next month, I'll be going four nights and full days Saturdays.
After that, I absolutely have to rectify the "unemployed" situation. Money is getting extremely tight. I'm hoping to NOT have to go back to automotive repair. It's getting too much on my old tired bones. Plus, I kinda like the fact that my fingers aren't all dried out and cracking to pieces...the first winter in 10+ years (at least) that that hasn't happenend.
BTW....in addition to the items I outlined above, a friend from these parts who runs an online e-tailer business (not gonna mention who, because....) sent me seven items from his "RMA" shelf... So far, I've repaired four of them to fully functional. :D (Hello, MacGuyver?? :p ) I may be able to fix two more. Half of them are case fans... Two of them are quad LED fans, w/ one bad LED each. If Rad Shack has the right LED in stock...I'll break out the soldering iron.
One item was an 80mm ThermalTake "Smart Case Fan 2", w/ the LED grill that plugs into the HDD and power LED outputs on the motherboard. That fan had a blade broken off.
Another item was a 120 x 25mm ThermalTake case fan (78 CFM @ 2000RPM, 34dBA). Plugging this in got me a bit of a "grinding" noise. Inverting the fan 180 degrees made the noise go away...
Curious.
The short version of the story....dissassembling the 120 found no rub marks on anything internally.... Swapping out one of the ball bearings from the damaged 80mm fan into the 120mm one (exact same part...YAY), made the noise go away entirely. :cool:
While I probably won't "review" the case fans...I will review the Vantec Multi-function Panel (Model # NXP-101) that I was able to repair....unless Joe already has..I haven't looked to see if he has or not yet.
Fun, fun, fun.... ;)
Originally posted by cV
I think the articles were very informative. Comparing newer mid-range DX9 cards to the most powerful series of dx8 cards, the GF4 Tis, is good because it shows how far tech has come and proves that there is finally a series of capable midrange DX9 cards.
However, I stress it would probably be better to get a 5900XT or scarf up a remaining 9800NP, as they offer better performance (30-50%) for only marginally higher prices.
For that old Palomino or Willamette rig with a GF2 GTS or GF3, it's probably a good buy though. :D
Thanks for the kind words.
Yes...any of the three (so far) cards would make a fine upgrade for a system like you describe.
I've been kinda "goofin' off" the last two days...getting totally engrossed in No One Lives Forever 2, which looks absolutely amazing, graphics wise, with the 9600XT, with all in game settings maxed out, and 6x AA and 4x AF. I installed "Fraps" to monitor FPS while playing, and the framerates I'm getting are still very good, despite cranking up the detail.
God...Cate Archer is such a "hottie"..... *sigh* :drool:
:D
Originally posted by SpeeDj
Hey B,
Great read, and if you would check your other home once in awhile you would see I have set up a high speed files section for clan members and staff ;)
America's Army 2.0 Full install is on there which is the latest version of the game. Let me know if you would like a more direct link :)
J :cool:
J, I wish I had another lifetime to immerse myself in the [OCG] site the way I'd like to, as you and the guys have made it flourish.
I'm hoping things will pan out somehow, and I can swing the $ for (Sierra's) NASCAR 2004 when it's released. I've still got the dream of hosting a racing server, as part of the [OCG] "family".
Keep up the awesome work over there! :thup:
BTW...I got a copy of AA 2.0.0a in the mail from hkgonra (Thanks again, BTW!!!). I've been working with this in relation to the 9600XT, as well as a few other games. The 9600XT review will be chock full of screen caps.... ;)
B.
Originally posted by Mr B
J, I wish I had another lifetime to immerse myself in the [OCG] site the way I'd like to, as you and the guys have made it flourish.
I'm hoping things will pan out somehow, and I can swing the $ for (Sierra's) NASCAR 2004 when it's released. I've still got the dream of hosting a racing server, as part of the [OCG] "family".
Keep up the awesome work over there! :thup:
BTW...I got a copy of AA 2.0.0a in the mail from hkgonra (Thanks again, BTW!!!). I've been working with this in relation to the 9600XT, as well as a few other games. The 9600XT review will be chock full of screen caps.... ;)
B.
You could always do a review of it for [OCG] you know ;)
I know you would bro I will never slight you in the least EVER we still love ya regardless. Keep up the awesome work bro :)
J :cool:
hkgonra
01-23-04, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by Mr B
BTW...I got a copy of AA 2.0.0a in the mail from hkgonra (Thanks again, BTW!!!). I've been working with this in relation to the 9600XT, as well as a few other games. The 9600XT review will be chock full of screen caps.... ;)
B.
Just thought I would let you know I used to run it with a ti4200 64mb and now with my 9600pro. It runs GREAT with both of them.
Penguin4x4
01-31-04, 06:45 PM
Sounds weird, but Madden NFL 2004 is also excellent as it uses pixel and vertex shaders, as well as bump mapping textures, (very good for a comparo, wouldn't you say? :D)
Originally posted by Penguin4x4
Sounds weird, but Madden NFL 2004 is also excellent as it uses pixel and vertex shaders, as well as bump mapping textures, (very good for a comparo, wouldn't you say? :D)
It could very well be. I haven't played any form of football game since "John Elway's Quarterback" for the Sega Genesis... :p
I was always into baseball sims more than gridiron games. Haven't played one of those since the Sega days either, though..LOL
I'll be using NOLF2 and TR AoD in the 9600XT review. AoD makes use of shaders and bumpmapping as well. The Jupiter Lithtech engine in NOLF2 looked outstanding with the 9600XT, with 6x AA, and 8x AF. ;)
Besides...Cate Archer and Lara Croft are a lot better looking than the majority of pro football players... :cool:
I'm processing all the raw data, and sifting thru the (literally) hundreds of screenshots I took for the 9600XT review now. AoD has a "debug" feature that allows going in and visually looking at the graphics end of things, turning on and off bumpmapping, and whatnot. It also shows a readout of FPS while running in this mode.
I used "Fraps" with NOLF2. I got some really high framerates, even w/ the AA and AF on. Plus that game is fun as hell... :p
B.
Originally posted by SpeeDj
You could always do a review of it for [OCG] you know
I know you would bro I will never slight you in the least EVER we still love ya regardless. Keep up the awesome work bro
J :cool:
Just downloaded the demo for UT2004 last night.
Me like.......ME REALLY LIKE!!!!!
Played the CTF map. 100+ FPS throughout, hit 200 in spots.. :eek: :eek:
Smoooooooooooth.
6 CDS? Hell, I'll buck up for the DVDs on this one. I'll sell my left (insert body part people have multiples of) here to get that. :p Esp. where it's supposed to include hours upon hours worth of stuff on level editing, model skinning, etc...
Oh yeah...BTW. 9600XT review is up. ;) http://www.overclockers.com/articles960/
B.
Originally posted by Mr B
Just downloaded the demo for UT2004 last night.
Me like.......ME REALLY LIKE!!!!!
Played the CTF map. 100+ FPS throughout, hit 200 in spots.. :eek: :eek:
Smoooooooooooth.
6 CDS? Hell, I'll buck up for the DVDs on this one. I'll sell my left (insert body part people have multiples of) here to get that. :p Esp. where it's supposed to include hours upon hours worth of stuff on level editing, model skinning, etc...
Oh yeah...BTW. 9600XT review is up. ;) http://www.overclockers.com/articles960/
B.
[OCG] Has a private UT2k4 server, check the staff section on the site B for the pass. It's off scoobies rig, plays pretty good.
J :cool:
funnyperson1
02-13-04, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Mr B
6 CDS? Hell, I'll buck up for the DVDs on this one. I'll sell my left (insert body part people have multiples of) here to get that. :p Esp. where it's supposed to include hours upon hours worth of stuff on level editing, model skinning, etc...
Oh yeah...BTW. 9600XT review is up. ;) http://www.overclockers.com/articles960/
B.
Kidney?
Personally, the reviews are ok.
No disrespect to Mr.B, but hardware reviews can be done a lot better at websites like anandtech who have the resources and the clout and the time to have a full suite of benchmarks.
I would be far more interested in these articles if they just overclocked these cards to the max, and then checked the performance, no stock numbers...nothing.
They should discuss more how these products are of interest to overclockers and modders. Cut out all the other stuff which all the other sites have already done, and stick to what you know best...overclocking.
Overclock it and they will come.
Originally posted by funnyperson1
Kidney?
Personally, the reviews are ok.
No disrespect to Mr.B, but hardware reviews can be done a lot better at websites like anandtech who have the resources and the clout and the time to have a full suite of benchmarks.
I would be far more interested in these articles if they just overclocked these cards to the max, and then checked the performance, no stock numbers...nothing.
They should discuss more how these products are of interest to overclockers and modders. Cut out all the other stuff which all the other sites have already done, and stick to what you know best...overclocking.
Overclock it and they will come.
I'm kinda hoping in a way to evolve into an "anandtech" situation and envoronment here. ;)
Not to take away from overclocking and modding, but supplement that, with info on products as they run "out of the box".
If I could, I'd love to have cut an old AMD OEM CPU sink in eighths, stuck it on the ram on the 9600 (Pro or XT), and see what that might have gotten. I'd have trouble fitting it back into the retail box to go back to Newegg though.... :p
All feedback like this is welcome. And the last vid card did get overclocked, so I'm heading that directon. ;)
B.
I really liked that you added some screen shots and told us what AA and AF it could take and still have playible frame rates. I bet if you through that at the 4200 it wouldn't have looked quite as competitive against the DX9 cards.
BTW I sent that package on Monday so you should soon have a retail copy of MOH:AA Breakthrough to throw in with your benchmarks. Someone else out there must have a DX9 game that they have beaten that they are willing to donate to the cause (hint hint wink wink nudge nudge)
Funnyperson1 has a point about modding it though. Maybe you could write one quick and dirty paragraph on how the HSF is mounted, weather or not it is sufficiant for ocing, is there room for ram sinks, and how easy it would be to mount a waterblock or pelt on it.
hkgonra
02-14-04, 11:38 AM
I have loved this series of articles. We have almost the exact same AMD rig. The wierd thing is that my ti4200 that was in my system only scored right around 10000 on 3dmark2001 my 9600pro scores around 13000. I guess you never can tell exactly how each card will run until you out it in and try it.
KrisMCool
03-12-04, 08:37 PM
I'd just like to say that I appreciate the time and effort it takes to sit down and write a review. Especially when this is something relatively new for you. And considering how the real world has been treating you, I'm sure you've got plenty on your plate. I enjoy your articles, as I do the majority of the Overclockers.com articles. That site is how I got to these forums and folding, so I'm enjoying many new things due to articles like yours.
Anyway, I'd say most of the forum members stand behind you in your efforts, as this is a great group of people here. I look forward to reading more of your reviews. Thanks.
Originally posted by KrisMCool
I'd just like to say that I appreciate the time and effort it takes to sit down and write a review. Especially when this is something relatively new for you. And considering how the real world has been treating you, I'm sure you've got plenty on your plate. I enjoy your articles, as I do the majority of the Overclockers.com articles. That site is how I got to these forums and folding, so I'm enjoying many new things due to articles like yours.
Anyway, I'd say most of the forum members stand behind you in your efforts, as this is a great group of people here. I look forward to reading more of your reviews. Thanks.
Thank YOU... ;) It means a lot to read that... :)
Staz, I humbly apologize for me tardiness in resonding in any way...I've been flat out busy here, most of it RL... I've got a backlog of items waiting to get written up (some really cool stuff, too).
I had the P4 rig in my sig die on me a couple weeks ago...the IC7 bit the big one. I've successfully used every last other component in different machines (I don't have another P4 Northie to test the IC7, but do have another P4 machine w/ a Willie. that mobo takes the Northie (and runs), but the IC7 doesn't support Willies...either way, the IC7 is gone.
I opened the box, said "HOLY *expletive*!", and haven't had a chance to get back to it. :(
I was going to inquire on a 9800 Pro or XT from Newegg this month, but where the IC7 snuffed it, I went a different direction instead.
B.
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