Celeron 600 O`clocking failure

[Optix]

:-) :-) :-) made it at last!!! . My Cel now works at 900 or 945MHz. THANX ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT. I just cnted the VId2 and VId3 pins together.Now I`m supposed to get 1.9V out of that but Sandra reports 1.5-1.6V. My Cel is a Cb0-1.5V. And I have a cooling problem because the cpu is not stable in rendering apps like Softimage.Prolly a better cooler would solve the problem.Thanx again all. :-)

[Phil]

Have you tryed increasing the voltage and if so what to, and what heatsink/fan combo are you using and what thermal compund?

[markedmundb]

Once you get up to 90, the PCI bus should drop to 1/3 of FSB (i.e. 30Mhz) On my Soyo it does anyway.

More info is required...

What type of board you got?
Are you using a slocket? if so, what one?
What cooling, inc. thermal goop? Too much goop can be as much a hindrance to a good OC as too little.
What other components?
Have you tried the END key trick? Press the END key at startup. If it aint gonna boot with the end key pressed, it aint gonna boot at all.
What RAM? type? brand?
How many volts you giving it?
What stepping cB0 (1.5v)? or cC0 (1.7V)?

One last thing to remember: there are good chips and there are some chips that won't even do 75Mhz Bus.

[wild_andy_c]

markedmundb (Feb 17, 2001 07:19 p.m.):
Once you get up to 90, the PCI bus should drop to 1/3 of FSB (i.e. 30Mhz) On my Soyo it does anyway.



But he has a Gigabyte motherboard!!!!!

This pretty much closes the subject!!! I bet there is no voltage manipulation and no FSB between 85 and 100!!!!! The Celeron 600 is not the overclocking failure here, but the Gigabyte board

[Optix]

It`s not about the temperature or overheating.The mboard does not suport voltage increasing or any other frequence multipliers over 85MHz.It`s a gigabyte.Guess it`s all mboard`s fault.Thanx for your reply.

[Newbie_Doo]

Before you give up on the project, consider this:

Try modifying the default voltage on the chip, not with the board. Since you are going straight for 100MHz FSB, you will need a voltage of around 1.90 or higher. This can be done EXTERNALLY on the chip by carefully wiring the proper pins together with a single strand of wire from a stranded 18ga wire. You will need VERY GOOD cooling, but it can be done. I have a cB0 Celeron2-600 running 1.82v (wired for 1.65 default + 10% adjustment on board) and the next step up for me is the same 1.90 default. To get 1.90V, remove the CPU from the board and CAREFULLY wire VID2 (AL37) and VID3 (AJ37) together. Make sure that your wire doesn't contact any other pins. Put the CPU back in the board, hook up your BigAssHeatsinkFan, fire it up and stand back.

WARNING: DOING THIS WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY AND IF YOUR CPU SPITS THE DUMMY, IT'S YOUR FAULT! But you already knew that, didn't you :) .

For a diagram and brief description of this procedure, go here:
http://www.hardocp.com/articles/intel_stuff/bumpvoltage.html

Good luck.

[Daniel ~]

Moved Post to "Intel CPUs"

[batboy]

I did the wire trick on my cB0 Celly, it works great. BUT...can you do it on the cC0 steppings too???

[Newbie_Doo]

batboy (Feb 22, 2001 06:08 a.m.):
I did the wire trick on my cB0 Celly, it works great. BUT...can you do it on the cC0 steppings too???

The Intel datasheet makes no differentiation. Because all of the steppings need to be compatible with the PGA370 socket, the VID pin locations are the same. Make sure that you know what combination your chip has before you mess with the pin wiring. Different speed chips (with different default voltages) have different pins internally wired to Vss. If you don't check YOUR cpu first, you might wind up with a nice keychain. Download the Intel datasheet for the Celeron here: http://developer.intel.com/design/celeron/datashts/243658.htm and check the voltage pinout table for your default voltage.

[Dr Brain]

Newbie
I have a newer Celeron II 600 but the default core is 1.7v. It runs fine @900 at that vcore and cool (80-90 F). I know I can get more out of this but my mb does not have vcore adjustment. Based on the data sheet it seems if I connect vid 1 (not connected to vss) and vid 3 (which is already connected to vss) together it will get me 1.8vcore. Am I understanding this right? Thanks.

Dr Brain

[Newbie_Doo]

Dr Brain (Feb 22, 2001 10:45 a.m.):
Newbie
I have a newer Celeron II 600 but the default core is 1.7v. It runs fine @900 at that vcore and cool (80-90 F). I know I can get more out of this but my mb does not have vcore adjustment. Based on the data sheet it seems if I connect vid 1 (not connected to vss) and vid 3 (which is already connected to vss) together it will get me 1.8vcore. Am I understanding this right? Thanks.

Dr Brain

Make sure that your chip says that the default is 1.70 volts. read the sticker, not the BIOS readout. If so, then you are correct. You can also connect just that pin to the adjacent Vss pin at AK36.

[Dr Brain]

Newbie
Yes sir. It is listed on the cpu itself as 1.7v. It's a cC0 and a pack date of 12-08-00 on the retail box. However, that article on Hard OCP was written 6 months ago back in July. I wonder if the pin config is still the same? What do you think?

[Newbie_Doo]

The VID pin locations will not change without making the CPU incompatible with existing boards. See my earlier post. My intel datasheet covers all of the releases up to the C2-800 cC0, and the VID pins are in the same locations on all of them. They have to be for backwards compatibility.

Since you are going to wire for a higher voltage, why not go to 1.85V instead. It's not quite a 10% adjustment and should work just fine as long as you have adequate cooling.

[PupsterXero]

Well, it's the same type of board I have...I don't REALLY like it because no voltage adjustment, lack of better FSB speeds, and no bloody support, but it works alright for what I payed. As for this wire trick, I think I might give it a go, mine holds stable at 900 with 1.7v, but wont post at a higher speed, and I've been lookin at the voltage the whole time. This might be just what it needs.

Oh yeah, and do you think this HSF would do me if I were to goto 1.9v?

This Heatsink/Fan (http://www.uniballcentral.com/puppy/pupscomp.jpg)

[Newbie_Doo]

Glad to help Pupster...Download the datasheet and study pages 18 and 87 as if your cpu's life depended on it, 'cause it does. You only get one shot at the wiring because when you put it back into the socket and fire it up, if you shorted the wrong pin the cpu will be toast.

Get a magnifying glass and check the wiring to ensure that the wire only touches the desired pins. Sorry to be so anal about it, but if you goof, it's your fault that the cpu fried. Being an old fart with failing eyesight (36), it's what I had to do!

Good luck.

[batboy]

Yes, I absolutely HAD to use a magnifying glass and tweezers. Be careful not to zap the chip with static electricity. Those pins are kind of soft and easily bent, so be careful. Also, make sure when you install the chip back into the socket, that it seats all the way down and locks down into place nice and square.

[Dr Brain]

Actually 1.8v only requires wrapping wire around vid 1 and vss. 1.9v (12% jump) only requires wrap around vid 2 and vss. But 1.85 requires wrap around vid 1, vid 2 and vss. Looking at the picture and knowing there is only bare wire being wrapped it seems 1.8 or 1.9 would be easier. But then I don't know because I haven't attempted it yet. What do you think?

[Newbie_Doo]

Dr Brain (Feb 22, 2001 08:42 p.m.):
Actually 1.8v only requires wrapping wire around vid 1 and vss. 1.9v (12% jump) only requires wrap around vid 2 and vss. But 1.85 requires wrap around vid 1, vid 2 and vss. Looking at the picture and knowing there is only bare wire being wrapped it seems 1.8 or 1.9 would be easier. But then I don't know because I haven't attempted it yet. What do you think?

For YOURS, yes. On a chip with a 1.70V default, VID3 is internally connected to Vss. Match the right VID pin combo for your desired voltage, wire it up and away you go. Us poor souls with cB0 1.5V chips can't play between 1.7V and 1.85V, we only have the jump from 1.65V to 1.9V. You can go 1.70 to 2.05 in .5V increments.

Make sure that you are comfortable with the cooling solution that you have for your cpu. Coppermines are a little more sensitive to temp than the AMD chips are.

[Dr Brain]

Thanks for the advice! I'm guessing I just get a strand and wrap it tight around the two posts so there's no play so it doesn't touch anything else and then plug it in, right?? I'm starting to get nervous. I shouldn't be. I've done the "wild thing" on Athlons before. But this is the first time I'm flirting with Intel.

[batboy]

Nervous? I was sweating bullets when I did it! Yes, it needs to be nice and tight. I used three wraps around each pin, but I probably could of gotten away with two wraps. Take special care to use tweezers and curl the tail end of the wire around the pin so it doesn't stick out. If you plug it in, and that wire is touching the wrong pins...goodbye chip!

[Newbie_Doo]

I didn't have the benefit of tweezers when I did mine. I used a mechanical pencil to make two loops in the end of the wire, lasso'd the Vss pin, took 2 wraps around each of the others and checked the work with the magnifying glass. I was sweating bullets too. If you have a 0.5mm mechanical pencil, it will help you make the first wrap, and also seat the wire on the pin before you put the chip back. Just slide the end of the pencil over the pin and tamp the wire down. Then, check to make sure it still contacts just the desired pin. I seated the chip, took it out, checked the wire again, then put it back and clamped it. All told, it took about 10 minutes because I was very careful. Keep a steady hand and good luck.

[PupsterXero]

Well, I went and did it...strange thing is I don't think it worked. DMI reports 1.6v! I have no clue why, i quadruple checked the pins and everything before I put the chip in. Strange :|

[Dr Brain]

What connections did you make?

[PupsterXero]

First, some info.
It's a cC0 Celery II 600, 1.70 default voltage (says on label).

I connected VID2 and VID3 to VSS to try for 1.9V.

If I still can't get it to work after some feedback, I'll try again for 1.85V

[Dr Brain]

Your mistake was that you connected both vid 2 and vid 3 to vss. On your chip, which is the same as mine (Celeron II 600 cC0), vid 3 is already connected to vss. According to Intel data sheet listed at Hard OC (see link above near top) to get 1.9v you only connect vid 2 to vss.

[PupsterXero]

I removed the connector from VID3. only VID2 is connected to the VSS now, but it hasnt made a difference. DMI still reports 1.6V

I wonder if its possible that DMI isnt reporting properly, are there any programs that would show it properly?

[Dr Brain]

The most trustworthy source for that info is the bios. Monitoring programs may or may not report correctly but the bios is always right. What does your bios say in the health or monitoring part?

[Newbie_Doo]

When I did my wiring, I connected the VID pins to each other, not to Vss. Not sure if it will make a difference (it shouldn't) but give it a try. Also, make sure your wire is snug to the base of the pin. Otherwise, it might not be making good contact when the cpu is pressed back into the socket.

[PupsterXero]

My bios doesn't show the voltage, gigabyte severly neutered it. I guess I will have to try connecting vid2 to vid3 or 1.85v.

[Dr Brain]

Let me know what happens. Check this out. My 600 boots to 100 fsb without a hitch and has been running fine @900 since I got it at default 1.7vcore (bios reports 1.68v). I was dickin around with the fsb yesterday trying for 105fsb and running it hot for a while with software DVD and now my bios started changing it's reading to 1.63 and 1.66vcore and now I can't boot to windows at 100fsb without blue screen! "Thank you sir, may I have another!?"

[PupsterXero]

Well, I'm gonna give it another shot, this time with copper wire, and a piece a bit thicker than what I used. It seems that even if it works, I have no way to tell if it really is at 1.9v or not.

[batboy]

If you do decide to try 1.9v, please make sure you have really good cooling.

[Dr Brain]

Yeah baby, it works! Check it out. I got a 3/8" strand from a piece of copper 18 gauge speaker wire. I then used a sowing needle and inserted one end of the wire and turning the needle to loop one end like a candy cane loop (no double wrap) so the loop just touches the strand. I then slid the needle out and placed that end over a side pin to make it easier to work with at looping the other end. I used the sowing needle to loop around the adjacent pin, slid the needle out and used tiny (medical) scissors to clip the end off so the loop just touches the strand. I then used the sowing needle head to bend the strand inward to be right in the center of the 2 pins and away from any other pins adjacent to the center of the strand. Since all of the pins are spaced evenly from each other I could then lift my double loop strand up and over to any 2 adjacent pins I want. In my case I wanted to set it over pins 1 and vss. When I set it down I used the tiny scissors like pliers to carefully crimp the two loops snug at the bottom of the 2 pins. Now my bios reads 1.76 vcore instead of 1.66! Now all I have to do is lift up the double loop wire and place it over adjacent pins vid 2 and vid 3 and I should get somewhere between 1.85 and 1.9vcore! Yep! Another successful surgery performed by Dr Brain. I want to thank all of you for your valuable input! You are all gentlemen and scholars!

Dr Brain

[PupsterXero]

I also hit success earlier today! I stopped trying for 1.9V, tried 1.85V with copper wire and success! My CPU is holding at 945 (9x105). The downside is that my motherboard jumps directly from 100 to 112 FSB, so I had to use gigabyte's Easy Tune III to overclock any farther than 900 because it wont post at 1008. Before the pin modification, any attempt to use Easy Tune III to go above 100FSB would just lock the system up.

Thank you for your help through all of this :)

[img="http://www.uniballcentral.com/puppy/cpubench.jpg"]
[img="http://www.uniballcentral.com/puppy/easytune3.jpg"]

[batboy]

Cool! I'm so proud of both of you.

I'd never attempted the wire trick without the assistance of other forum member. Overclockers.com rocks!

Now, get serious about tweaking your cooling and do some case mods. Who knows, you just might make one more step up the ol' O/C ladder...

[PupsterXero]

Well, I currently leave my case open, but I'm working on a case mod right now. Already have it spray painted black, gotta order some fans, grills, and a neon light system :)

I would have a fan on my north bridge heatsink, but I don't have anything that fits. Suppose I'll take a trip to radio shack one of these days and see if I can find something that I can use for it.

Gonna pick up another 256MB of PC133 soon as well.

I think overclockers.com rocks, the people are nice, there aren't as many flame wars like you see on other boards about AMD vs Intel and stuff like that. Thanks again :)

[batboy]

Most mobo northbridge heatsinks that I've seen will accept a standard 40mm fan, like the ol' 486 CPU fans, perfectly. You can buy 40mm fans at most computer shops for maybe $5 tops. I bought a Sunon double thick fan (20mm thick rather than the normal 10mm) which moves more air than the thin ones. The fan I'm talking about is the one with the "3dfxCool" sticker on it in the pic that I have mounted on the northbridge sink. Additionally, I have an old 486 CPU fan (40mm thin) that I recycled from a junk computer, mounted on the heatsink of my GeForce II MX video card. Follow the link below to see a pic of my mobo setup. Five fans are in the pic, my wiring loom is wired tied back, the flat cables are rounded for better air flow. I have a 80mm front case fan not shown.

http://www.fiero.nl/uploads/comp-innards.jpg

[Dr Brain]

Well, I just dropped my double loop wire over vid 2 and vid 3 and now I'm running my 600@1035 with 115fsb and 1.87vcore. Heat doesn't seem to be a problem so tomorrow I'm going to drop a double loop wire over vid 0 and vid 2 to vss to get somewhere between 1.90 and 1.95. Might as well see where I can push it to and then back it off a bit. Hell, this is even more fun than oc'ing AMD!

[batboy]

I hate to sound like an ol' nanny, but be real careful if going over 1.9v, you MUST have a cool running rig. Maybe post some O/C load CPU temps. Try not to let the temps get much into the 40's. Heat is the enemy!

[Newbie_Doo]

You guys rock! I feel like a proud parent! Glad to see you having success with the voltage mod. I was feeling bad that Optix was ready to give up when there was still a way to make it work. You guys have proven the point that it can be done without voltage tweaking on the mobo. As soon as I get the new case (a week or so...need $$$) the watercooling is going on the Celly. Currently I can post at 1008, but am unstable above 845 because of voltage and thermal issues. I will join you guys in the 1Gig club soon!

[marty]

We should have the moderator change the topic so that it reads failure becomes a success!!!!!

8-)

[PupsterXero]

This thing is working great so far. I may try again for 990 or 1008 another day, but I need to find a place that sells some arctic silver first :)

[batboy]

Expect to pay about $13 for Arctic Silver, kind of expensive. If you're in a hurry, directron.com is very fast and has it in stock. But, don't overlook the $2-$3 Radio Shack thermal paste. It's not bad for the price.

[Newbie_Doo]

PupsterXero (Feb 24, 2001 02:59 p.m.):
This thing is working great so far. I may try again for 990 or 1008 another day, but I need to find a place that sells some arctic silver first :)

Try www.warpfactor-e.com for the arctic silver. Terry sells it for $10.00 plus shipping ($4.00 for me in VA) and that's the cheapest I have seen it so far.

[PupsterXero]

I may look into that radio shack stuff, but I don't know at the moment. I'm not at all disappointed with 945, infact when I bought the chip with christmas money, I came from a Pentium Pro 200 @ 233, even the 600 sounded good, it was alot better than my old CPU, and it had new and better features. I also figured that it would be highly overclockable, the average speed reached is 900, and I would definitly be happy with that. But overclocking this chip turned out to be much more fun than I thought, it's really involving. Much more than just changing the jumpers on my board, but actually getting right down in there and wiring the pins, it is very fun. The extra 45MHz i've gained so far is an added bonus, if I get anymore great, if not, so be it, i'm still ahead of what I bought it for.

[Newbie_Doo]

If you can get the arctic silver, then do so. It will mean a few degrees C lower than the stuff from the 'shack. See the comparison on the main page.

[Dr Brain]

Well, I've tried several pin configurations and I was able to run this little rig at 1080Mhz at 120 fsb and 1.95vcore. However I found it to be rock stable at 1008Mhz at 112 fsb and 1.85vcore. I thought of trying 2.0 or 2.05 v but I figured there's no point in maxing this 600 out. I'm averaging 80f at 1008 which is great since it has a max of 90C which is well over 170f.

[Newbie_Doo]

WOOOOOOOOOOOHHHOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! WTG!!!

[PupsterXero]

Wow dude, way to go. Makes me want to go do it even more now :)

[Dr Brain]

I take that back. I was just playing a DVD movie with "Power DVD" software which is extremely cpu intensive and I got blue screen after a few minutes. I guess I'll have to up the vcore again.

[Newbie_Doo]

Are your hands still shaking? I'd start to seriously worry about the cooling solution right about now. Makes me want to do the watercooling tomorrow, new case be damned! Now if I could just get this radiator to reach outside.....Hmmmmm......where's that house fan?

[PupsterXero]

Well, it seems 990 and 1008 are attainable goals. I upped my voltage to 1.9V because games would close for no reason @ 945 - 1.85V
It's nice and stable at 1.9V, i left sandra burning in all night, no lockups. But 990 and 1008 are within reach, I can select 990 in EasyTune III and it will work idle, but as soon as I put pressure on it, it blue screens. And 1008 will post 1 outta 5 times, once i get some thermal paste I'll up the voltage a bit and try for those.

Note: I already have thermal paste but its really crappy stuff that came with my HSF.

[Dr Brain]

Oh well. Heat is definitely the problem. I've got the newest version of a "Book PC" and it's packed-in like a laptop. No way to add any extra cooling. I can run it at 1035 fine in business and light games but if I run cpu intensive apps like DVD player software it overheats. I think I've seen some powered ice add ons for heat sinks at computer shows but unless I find something like that I'll have to make do with 945 as it doesn't heat up too badly at 9x105.

[marty]

I have a PIII 700 with a default voltage of 1.65. I would like to change the default to 1.7 or 1.75 but I don't think I have that luxury. If I read the table correctly all I can do is connect VID3 to VSS as the VID2 VID1 and VID0 are already connected to VSS. If I connect VID3 to VSS then my default is 2.05. Wow that's hot.

So am I reading the table correctly and is my logic right???

Thanks.

VID3 VID2 VID1 VID0 VccCORE

1
0
1
1
1.50 (Default)

1
0
1
0
1.55

1
0
0
1
1.60

1
0
0
0
1.65

0
1
1
1
1.70

0
1
1
0
1.75

0
1
0
1
1.80

0
1
0
0
1.85

0
0
1
1
1.90

0
0
1
0
1.95

0
0
0
1
2.00

0
0
0
0
2.05

1
1
1
1
No Core

[batboy]

Marty, it looks like your logic is correct. However, there might be a silver lining. Depending on your motherboard and BIOS, you'll probably still keep your lower voltage settings too. At least when I did the wire trick on my C-566 cB0 on an Abit SE6, my default went from 1.5v to 1.65v. In the BIOS, the settings still can be set as low as 1.3v , but the upper range went from a max of 1.75v to 1.9v. I'll bet even if you wired in VID3 to one of the other pins for a default of 2.05v, that you'll still be able to "user define" your voltage to a lower setting, depending on your motherboard of course. If it does not allow you to change voltage at all, then yes, 2.05v is too high for air cooling. You cB0 P-III guys are kind of screwed. The cC0 C-II and P-III chips are a different story. Lots you can do with them.

[marty]

My motherboard is the SE6 and so yes I can lower the voltage.

I thought you were running a PIII700 cCO on an SE6??? Is the default for the cCO 1.7 and does the SE6 then give you 1.95 for a max??

[batboy]

Yes, yes, and yes to your three questions. What confused you was my story of the wire trick done to my last CPU I just took off on Friday. My P-III 700 is truly brand new... well... ok, only 48 hours old.

[marty]

The Big Red Bear thanks the Batboy.

I am going to bring my magnifiers home from work tomorrow!!

[batboy]

Marty, I don't know if you've done any cooling mods to your SE6 board, but I found that mounting a 40mm fan onto the northbridge heatsink (the square greenie next to the CPU socket) really helped cool the motherboard and added some more stability when overclocking. NOTE: that old 486 CPU fan laying in the back of the junk drawer is a 40mm fan that will work perfect on that ol' Abit greenie heatsink. I also added a small sink onto the southbridge chip and also a trimmed down sink onto the ICS clock generator. These poor mobos start getting warm at 150 MHz bus speed. Of course, it goes without saying that you need extra case fans to move fresh air in and hot air out. Keep tweaking!

P.S. I found that by downloading the SE6 utility update and latest INF files from Abit, then going through the update setup, that it added a little more overclocking stability. Maybe your mobo is new enough to already come with the newest drivers.

[marty]

Thanks. I did add a fan and grease to the green heatsink but never thought of any improvement with the drivers. I will try that, too.

I don't have the best PIII 700 cBO in the world. It only did 840 out of the box. But with an Alpha cooler is does 933 at 1.9 volts. I need the 1.95 to try to see how high it can go. I don't plan to run faster than 933 or 960 but it is fun anyway to try.

Thanks again.

[marty]

Well I tried the trick and it worked. I connected Vid2 and Vid 3 on my default 1.65 volt chip. The default is now 2.05 as we discussed above. So I immediately set the voltage down to 1.95 and was able to run Windows at 980 MHz. But even at 2 volts 980 was it.

I imagine with better cooling or better memory I could do a bit more. But for now I have reached the limit.

It is snowing out so there will be no northern tropic out the window cooling today. I would like to hit 1015 but such is life. This isn't bad for a chip that only did 840MHz out of the box!

Thanks to all who posted on this thread. It is a treat to have such resources.