Barton or Thoroughbred For Overclocking?????

[[DAD]MeR|iN]

Alright, I have a tough decision to make, I am building my first Oc'ing rig for myself, have a build a few for freinds but not yet one for myself, and I am still a little bit new, when i built others they were both Thoroughbred (1700 and 2400) they both had aircooling, they all chose the parts etc, they both seemed to be decent overclocks, but since they didn't have the high end cooling, things were halted a bit. I just recieved my Koolance Exos, CPU 200G, mobo northbridge cooler, vid card cooler, and hd coolers (x2), I am going to replace the fans in the Exos with some Thermaltake 80mm Smart Case fan IIs, I read various review that say that helps with the efficency. The Koolance system has been reviewed rather well, for a kit, the CPU 200G is "supposed" to be able to cool roughly 200watts of heat. I am looking for a very aggressive overclock, and I have heard mixed experiences and reviews about both the Barton and the Thoroughbred cores. I would like to know which will preform better, I have seen better speeds out of the Thouroughbreds, and they are cheaper, but i have heard that the Bartons preform better benchmark-wise, and have seen some benchmarks to prove it. It is kind of a toss-up, so i would love to get some advice from people with experience, I dont really mind the money, i just want to know whats the be st OC. The Two I am looking at right now are the Thoroughbred 2700+(seen some good speeds from this one), and the Barton 2400+(have also heard this OC rather well). I have an Antec TrueBlue 480 watt PS, and an Epox 8RDA3+ Ultra 400 rev 2.x mobo, Antec Superlanboy case, and the Koolance Exos and accessories as i explained earlier. I was just wondering which will OC the best and/or preform the best with my setup. Memory will be Corsair XMS Twinx 512mb 3200LLPT. Thanks a TON for the help.

[ChillPhatCat]

Well... I don't see a real dilemma here and you're picking between two less popular chips.

I'll put it this way, if you're gonna be cheap and go for a thouroughbred then you should be looking at the 1700+ or 1800+.

If you want to go for slightly better performance then you should probably look at the Barton 2500+.

Now the breakdown...

It should be relatively easy to get a 50% overclock with the Tbred on Air... I'm at 56% with the system in my sig @ + .2V... But I could get the same clock speed at default voltage with a Barton... just as easily.

You may not get as much of an overclock with a barton, but you're probably going to see a higher clock speed per voltage... ie 2.4-2.5 GHz @ ~1.85V. Then take into account the doubled cache and much better chance of high FSB.... well the choice is simple if you want performance. The Barton simply does better per clock cycle.

[c627627]

With your PC3200 RAM, even the new 2500+ locked Bartons are great.

Bartons have double the cache of Thoroughbreds so that's why they're better even if clocked slightly below Thoroughbred speeds.

There are no 2400+ desktop Bartons. There's a mobile 2400+ Barton.

Either way, DLT3C B (not A) Thoroughbred 1700+ and 1800+ overclock the most but are hard to find now.

New 2500+ Bartons may not overclock as much but they have double cache and are easy to find so that's why people go for the 2500+ Barton.

Third choice would be the $62 2100+ B.

[Susquehannock]

If you get a 1700 or 1800 make sure it's a Thoroughbred B
core and not an "A". Even though they run at 1.6v stock
compared to the "A" core's 1.5v, the extra transistors
in the newer "B" core makes them great OCers.
The 1.5v Thoroughbred B is even better but
are extremely hard to find anymore. :(

dUt3c, .. the "U" = 1.6v default
dLt3c, .. the "L" = 1.5v default

That extra 0.1v gives the Tbred B dLt3c just the extra
headroom they need to break 2.5ghz. :)

And with all the newer chips being "super locked" our
choices are even more limited.

[Quailane]

Bartons are not worth the extra cache. A thoroughbred gives you more power when it is overclocked because it goes up higher. The extra cache does very little for the barton as my duron at 2.2Ghz has slightly less performance than my 2.2Ghz barton. The duron is also at a lower vcore. My first choice would be a 2100+ tbred B. With an unlocked multiplier you are talking about WAY more performance than a 2500+ unless you buy very expensive ram and motherboard compared to what is necessary for the tbred B. Also the 2100+ is around $30 cheaper.

[Susquehannock]

Can you still buy 2100 Tbred B that are not locked?

[Quailane]

Oh yeah, I speak from experience. I regret having gotten two locked bartons. 205Mhz seems the most I can do with moderately priced ram. With an unlocked tbred, even 133Mhz fsb will do.

[[DAD]MeR|iN]

well, the more i read the better the t-bred sounds, i Have liek i said and Epox 8Rda3+ and am buying Corsair XMS Twinx 512X2 3200LLPT. should be a great OC on the memory, and the board has had some descent FSB OCs, have seen over 220mhz, If I am correct(i may be wrong) but THG OCed it to 230, Dont quote me on that, but i think that was what i heard. So with my setup, what would be the best? doesnt matter all around, for boards in general, from experience what would you guys think would be the best for my board(also taking into consideration the new (("""AMD Money Maker""")) "super-locking" on thier new processors)?? Also I order from New Egg for about 99% of my buys, so how would i order the B instead of the A if I chose to go with the T-Bred? thanks a ton once again!!

[c627627]

Sites usually don't guarantee these things, that's the problem.

Note that 2100+ OEM was the only processor for the past year that was guaranteed to be a B by newegg.

People were getting A's for other CPUs, but never for 2100+ OEMs.

Since there's no guarantee, I'd say the chances of you getting a 2100+ B from newegg are good, simply because I haven't seen anyone here get a 2100+ A.

[[DAD]MeR|iN]

hmm... but does the 2100 OC as well as the 1700 or 1800? also, do you know of any other New Egg type sites? (reliability wise?)

[c627627]

2100+ B overclocks better than DUT3C 1700+ and DUT3C 1800+ on average.

Yes,
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Main.hmx?UID=&CID=&Back=
and newegg sister site:
http://www.nutrend.com/

[[DAD]MeR|iN]

Ok, well I was looking at prices, and wow, they sure are pretty cheap, only $55-$65, not bad. Just need to make sure i get a B I guess, a few last questions, how can I know if it will be unlocked or not, and if its not, can i send it back for one made in one of the weeks it was unlocked? Also, can you send an A back for a B? Are there any sites out there that tell you the week and rev(A or B) that they are selling you?? thanks for all the help I think I am going with a T-bred, just which T-Bred to buy now is the issue... 2100+ best OC?? or is there another...?? thanks again for the help!

[Axis]

If you are cool with an xp3200+ speed then the barton 2500 is the chip for you. If you want more than 2.3Ghz you "should" have better luck with the t-bred B.

[Axis]

Originally posted by [DAD]MeR|iN
I just recieved my Koolance Exos, CPU 200G, mobo northbridge cooler, vid card cooler, and hd coolers (x2), I am going to replace the fans in the Exos with some Thermaltake 80mm Smart Case fan IIs, I read various review that say that helps with the efficency.

Check my sig.. same as yours. I love my Exos. You may get flamed for buying one but I have been very pleased.

[Sir Barton]

sorry didnt have time to read the whole thread. i say get either Tbred B or barton, either way you wont be disappointed.

[[DAD]MeR|iN]

sounds good, and yeah i have a feeling this Exos will be nice. Ok last and final(hopefully) question... which do I have a better chance at getting an unlocked proc?

[c627627]

2100+ B is the only semi-guaranteed unlocked CPU because not one person got a locked one so far.

But this only matters if you don't have good PC3200 RAM as they overclock FSB enough to take a multiplier locked Barton way up.

MHz speed = [FSB] x multiplier.

[Zerileous]

My locked Barton 2500+ i just got the other day is running @ 3200+ perfectly stable on stock voltages so far. I plan to push it alot harder tomorrow. The locked 2500+ bartons are nearly guaranteed to hit 3200 as far as i have heard and mine had no problem jumping up to 200mhz fsb. I am pretty tickled that i saved like 120 bucks just so far with my OC.

[[DAD]MeR|iN]

alright, so I will go with the 2100+ if i go for a T-bred, but those Bartons, a question about the locking stuff: can you raise the voltages on a locked proc(noob question sorry, but like I said, I'm new to the "locked" stuff). thanks!

[Quailane]

You can raise voltges as it is motherboard dependent. Don't go with the barton though. Unless you have the 1 exact perfect fsb speed to overclock the 2500+ to its max, go with the 2100+. You will get a 3200+ from the barton at 200Mhz, but you will get a 3400+ or higher from the t-bred at the same fsb.

[[DAD]MeR|iN]

alright T-bred it is, but the question is 1800+ or 2100+ T-bred(not which is better((2100 obviously better)) which will be unlocked????) Sounds good to me, now just to find a site i can request a B and find an unlocked one.

Originally posted by Susquehannock
dUt3c, .. the "U" = 1.6v default
dLt3c, .. the "L" = 1.5v default
[/B]

This is the ad they have for the 2100 they have in stock. Is it a B? and is it unlocked?

++++++ Computer Hardware > Processors > AMD > N82E16819103370
AMD Athlon XP 2100+, 266 MHz FSB, 256K Cache Processor - OEM
Specification
Model: AMD Athlon XP 2100+
Core: Thoroughbred
Operating Frequency: 1.73GHz
FSB: 266MHz
Cache: L1/64K+64K; L2/256K
Voltage: 1.65V
Process: 0.13Micron
Socket: Socket A
Multimedia Instruction: MMX, SSE, 3DNOW!, 3DNOW!+
Packaging: OEM(Processor Only) (limit 5 per customer)

Model# AXDA2100DUT/3C
Item# N82E16819103370
Stock Status: In Stock++++++++++


thanks for the help once again! :)

[c627627]

There is no way to tell locked/unlocked untill you boot it up.

2100+ is probably unlocked.
DUTC3 comes both as A and B's.

Everyone ordering 2100+ from newegg is getting B's though, but they no longer guarantee it in writing.

[[DAD]MeR|iN]

alright, I will be placing my order tonight then. thanks for all the help, wish me luck getting an unlocked B! :D

[Quailane]

It's a virtually guaranteed 'B'.

[prynce_qt]

good luck to ya

[autoMATTic]

Originally posted by Quailane
Bartons are not worth the extra cache. A thoroughbred gives you more power when it is overclocked because it goes up higher. The extra cache does very little for the barton as my duron at 2.2Ghz has slightly less performance than my 2.2Ghz barton. The duron is also at a lower vcore. My first choice would be a 2100+ tbred B. With an unlocked multiplier you are talking about WAY more performance than a 2500+ unless you buy very expensive ram and motherboard compared to what is necessary for the tbred B. Also the 2100+ is around $30 cheaper.

Processor performance isn't just about clock rates. U got any benchmarks to back this up?