Difference between PIII and Celeron? Between FC-PGA and PPGA?

[The Dup]

What are the differences between a PIII and a Celeron, other than the obvious FSB of 66Mhz and smaller cache and $$$? Any advantage to using a Celeron instad of a Coppermine for overclocking?

I know that the PIII and Celeron have different pin layouts; are they both Socket 370? So, what is the difference between FC-PGA and PPGA? Two acronyms of the same thing? Or are they different but interchangeable (i.e. one can plug a PPGA cpu in a FC-PGA socket)? Is one better than the other for overclocking?

I want to do my 1st Overclocking on an Asus P2B Rev.1.02 mobo (w/latest BIOS), by replacing the PII 400 in Secc package/Slot 1 for a PIII or Celeron, but don't know which "type" to choose. The mobo can supply 1.8v, and between 50Mhz and 133Mhz

Comments made earlier suggested a PIII 700 of stepping oC0, but I don't know if I should go for a SECC2 or FC-PGA or PPGA version? Would any of these be overclockable?

Or would a Celeron be better in a price/performance ratio and easier to overclock. I.e., if I can get both a PIII 700 and Celeron 700 running at 900+ Mhz through overclocking magic, which is better? Or are they comparable?

Again, any help or advice would help me decide what CPU to buy. Tx,

Dan

P.S. My next PC will be AMD Athlon for sure... They sound better and easier to manage, what with the multipler being available and all. Which makes me think... Is there a type of slotket card I can plug an AMD something in and then the card in a Slot-1 mobo?

[DaveB]

What are the differences between a PIII and a Celeron, other than the obvious FSB of 66Mhz and smaller cache and $$$? Any advantage to using a Celeron instad of a Coppermine for overclocking?

The advantage goes to the Coppermine. All the factors you mention will lead to better performance with an O/C'ed Coppermine.



I know that the PIII and Celeron have different pin layouts; are they both Socket 370? So, what is the difference between FC-PGA and PPGA? Two acronyms of the same thing? Or are they different but interchangeable (i.e. one can plug a PPGA cpu in a FC-PGA socket)? Is one better than the other for overclocking?

Yes, they are both socket 370 but with different pinouts. Compatibility depends on the motherboard. Older socket 370 mobos are generally only PPGA compatible. Newer ones generally take both, although some recent models may not run PPGA CPUs. PPGA Celerons are the old 0.25u cores and don't perform or O/C as well as the newer FC-PGA Celerons. There weren't any PPGA PIIIs. All the previous Katmai PIIIs were slot 1.



I want to do my 1st Overclocking on an Asus P2B Rev.1.02 mobo (w/latest BIOS), by replacing the PII 400 in Secc package/Slot 1 for a PIII or Celeron, but don't know which "type" to choose. The mobo can supply 1.8v, and between 50Mhz and 133Mhz

Your best choice is a PIII 700 FC-PGA mounted in a slotket. That will allow sufficient core voltage adjustment to get to 933 MHz. No matter how high you O/C an FC-PGA Celeron, it will never out-perform a PIII 700 @ 933 MHz. Also check the Asus site as they have many revisions of their boards and only some P2Bs will run Coppermines correctly.



Comments made earlier suggested a PIII 700 of stepping cC0, but I don't know if I should go for a SECC2 or FC-PGA or PPGA version? Would any of these be overclockable?

Go for an FC-PGA version do to the unlimited core voltage settings available through the slotket. My PIII 700 needed 1.95V for stability at 994 MHz. I could only have gotten 1.81V using a slot 1 PIII 700 on my mobo.



Or would a Celeron be better in a price/performance ratio and easier to overclock. I.e., if I can get both a PIII 700 and Celeron 700 running at 900+ Mhz through overclocking magic, which is better? Or are they comparable?

Both are easy to O/C, but the PIII performs significantly better do to the better cache and the higher FSBs. In many benchmarks, PIIIs running with the FSB at 133 MHz or better out-perform AMD T-Birds clock for clock. So getting the FSB to 133 MHz is very important for overall system performance.



P.S. My next PC will be AMD Athlon for sure... They sound better and easier to manage, what with the multipler being available and all. Which makes me think... Is there a type of slotket card I can plug an AMD something in and then the card in a Slot-1 mobo?

First off, AMD systems are harder to setup and manage do to their VIA chipsets. Nothing is easier to setup than a PIII/BX system and nothing is more compatible with hardware and software. Second, the multiplier is a crutch that AMD O/C'er had to use since FSB O/C was impossible beyond 10% or so. Now that the KT133A has opened up the 133 MHz+ FSB world, you'll see the use of the multiplier fading. For total system performance you want the FSB as high as it will go. Also, higher multipliers lead to performance issues as the caches become overwhelmed. That's why AMD is going to 133 MHz CPU - to bring the multipliers down. Any multiplier over 9.5 cripples the small Duron cache, and going over 12.5 chokes the T-Bird. They appear to run fine, but performance stops increasing as the clock speed increases.

There won't ever be any way to run an Athlon in a Slot 1 motherboard.

[markedmundb]

The Dup (Feb 23, 2001 09:09 a.m.):
What are the differences between a PIII and a Celeron, other than the obvious FSB of 66Mhz and smaller cache and $$$? Any advantage to using a Celeron instad of a Coppermine for overclocking?

I know that the PIII and Celeron have different pin layouts; are they both Socket 370? So, what is the difference between FC-PGA and PPGA? Two acronyms of the same thing? Or are they different but interchangeable (i.e. one can plug a PPGA cpu in a FC-PGA socket)? Is one better than the other for overclocking?

I want to do my 1st Overclocking on an Asus P2B Rev.1.02 mobo (w/latest BIOS), by replacing the PII 400 in Secc package/Slot 1 for a PIII or Celeron, but don't know which "type" to choose. The mobo can supply 1.8v, and between 50Mhz and 133Mhz

Comments made earlier suggested a PIII 700 of stepping oC0, but I don't know if I should go for a SECC2 or FC-PGA or PPGA version? Would any of these be overclockable?

Or would a Celeron be better in a price/performance ratio and easier to overclock. I.e., if I can get both a PIII 700 and Celeron 700 running at 900+ Mhz through overclocking magic, which is better? Or are they comparable?

Again, any help or advice would help me decide what CPU to buy. Tx,

Dan

P.S. My next PC will be AMD Athlon for sure... They sound better and easier to manage, what with the multipler being available and all. Which makes me think... Is there a type of slotket card I can plug an AMD something in and then the card in a Slot-1 mobo?

Old Celeron (up to 533) is PPGA, new celeron (566, etc) and Coppermine p/// are FCPGA.

Both are Socket 370 (i.e. they fit into the same socket) but with a few pins that are in different places.

All cB0 and cC0 stepping (revision) CPUs are FCPGA AFAIK, so you'll need to get a slocket converter to go into your Slot 1 board.

Most CPUs have the ability to be overclocked, the question is how much of an OC are you after?

Depending on how much you've got to spend, go for a celeron 600 <$100, or a p///700E. Any p/// will p/s2 over a celly, therefore the p///700 is a lot better, as it has a larger cache, and will run at a faster FSB- the whole system will run faster.

The problem w/ Cellies is they are running at a high mulitiplier (which Intel lock), so a Celly 700 is 10.5x66, as opposed to a p/// 700 being 7x100, therefore it's a lot easier to get a p/// 700 to 933, as opposed to getting a c700 to 1050 (although some folk have done it, it's a rarity!)

Unfortunately there's no way that an Athlon would plug into a p/// board. The Athlon has a completely different (ddr EV6) system bus (so a Gig's really running at 200x5 (AFAIK) in spite of what it says in the BIOS/on the jumpers) and a completely different socket- Has 462(?) pins.

[DaveB]

Gee, markedmundb, if I knew you would give such a comprehensive response, I wouldn't have bothered!

[The Master]

The Dup: wow! You sure do know alot about CPU's and stuff for a newbie in oc'ing!
I am truly impresssed.
Good luck with your oc'ing!

[markedmundb]

DaveB (Feb 23, 2001 10:36 a.m.):
Gee, markedmundb, if I knew you would give such a comprehensive response, I wouldn't have bothered!

SNAP to you DaveB :¬)}

[The Dup]

Thank you for the responses,

So to conclude my discoveries here at www.overclockers.com, I should buy a PIII Copermine 700 cB0 or cC0 in an FC-PGA format, buy a non-Intel HSF, like a gOrb Silver or something, and buy a Slocket card for the CPU, like an Asus S370dl. The database shows that a lot of you guys have been successful at 933Mhz with the same motherboard and similar components, so I should be able to achieve at least more than 800, which would be 2x more than what I have now (PII-400).

Any last minute advice on the "accessories" to buy (HSF, slotket)? Any particular brands to avoid?

Thanks again for the tips, and thanks for the accolades; I tend to research things to death before buying anything.

I will be back here when I have purchased everything and am ready to "pump up the volume" with more questions on burn in and lapping, etc.

The Dup