Those of you with single 120mm fans on your rad...

GM1010 · Jan 15, 2004

I'm getting some less-than-wonderful temps with my first setup and was wondering...for those of you who have whatever type of rad (preferably similar to my Dtek Pro-core), with only one 120mm fan on it, what type of cfm are you running through it? What kind of cfm does one need on this type of rad? I'm wondering if my measly 53cfm Stealth is causing my temp problem. Oh and the rest of the setup is a QuietOne 1200 with 1/2 Clearflex and a Whitewater, so I don't know what else it could be.

Korndog · Jan 15, 2004

i used to have a ~60cfm fan on my radiator for about a year. it was running at 7v. when tested, @ 22 ambient temps. my cpu temp would be ~35. At load ~40c. When i turned the fan to 12v which pushed out ~110cfm, temps would drop to 32c idle, and 36c load, obviously an improvement, but i would have to sacrifice the quietness. If you added a second stealth fan, it would not increase airflow, but it will increase the ability flow more air at higher static pressure, and a heatercore has a very high static pressure i believe. Adding a second one will undoubtly improve your cooling preformance.

GM1010 · Jan 15, 2004

See it's so hard to compare temps because right now running Prime95 I'm getting 31 in-socket and 52 on-die with ~22 ambient and 29 case. I'm assuming you're talking about socket temps? But I really really doubt my setup is better than yours because I'm getting pretty much what I had with air right now.

*edit* Oh and btw, I was leaning more towards a higher cfm fan than just adding another one.

Korndog · Jan 16, 2004

i see.. i don't have access to my on-die temp... kind of strange in your case though..hm..
you setup could be better then mine actually, my pump is weaker, my water block is medioc. (nemesis block) and my radiator is the same.
Our cpus are the same (i have the 0250 tbred also).
Your case temp is kind of high though. my case temp usually stand at around 25c or lower.
how do u have your raditator set up, is it getting fresh air from out side (completly sealed to take air from outside, not just setting in the front of your case in front of the air vent) hot air could be just circulating in your case and that could be the cause..
do you have sufficiant exhaust?

asf for higher cfm, yes higher cfm does do better, but i see you have a stealth which i'm guessing means your not a fan of noise. upgrading to a 100+cfm fan is .. well.. not going to be fun, you're looking at 40+dbA, which IMO is loud. two stealths might just preform as well as one ~120cfm fan.

johan851 · Jan 16, 2004

I have a 120CFM (about) Panaflo 120x38mm. At 7v I get load temps about 2C higher than with it at 12v. I don't think having that stealth on there will be too big of a problem, but keep in mind that a 120x25mm fan has lower static pressure.

2 Stealths would help, but so would a single 120x38mm fan instead.

GM1010 · Jan 16, 2004

I'm sorry I wrote that wrong. My MB is 29c and I have a probe in the case and it's ~26 now. For exhaust I have...you guessed it..2 80mm Stealths

As for the rad, yes it's up front, I wouldn't say absolutely air-tight, but the whole front is cut out and the front case cover with vents is over it. It's this case:

http://www.antec-inc.com/us/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=90510

There is also a shroud on it which I guess isn't perfectly sealed either. I was just thinking about something in-between, like the Panaflo M1A @ 86.5 cfm and 35dba. I think that's within my noise limits but I wish there was a way to know how big of a difference it would make before spending ~$20..

BigSmokey · Jan 16, 2004

Is your waterblock seated properly? It might be worth a reseat.

GM1010 · Jan 16, 2004

Yeah the block as been reseated a number of times. When I first installed it I used the white goop that came with my old SLK-800. Realized I had Arctic Alumina and used that. The first time I put it on and put the block on, I reboot and it comes up with a Checksum error right after the post. I'm thinking, ok I squished it...reset the bios and it works. Temps not that great so I take it off thinking maybe I used too much Alumina. This time I put the block on and don't tighten it as much...I go to turn the comp on, it runs for about 4 sec and shuts down...

After scratching my head for a while it finally works long enough for me to get into the bios...where I check the temp and see 69 deg...uh oh. Hardware monitor is set to shut down at 70. You can see where this is going...Take the block off, and there's barely any tim on the block...ok, not tight enough that time. One last application and that's where I am now. Maybe I'll try a 35mm, I don't really know yet.

johan851 · Jan 16, 2004

It might be worth investing in a couple rheostats or even a rheobus for you. You could get medium to loud CFM fans and then lower the volume to your liking. That's what I do, and I'm pretty happy with it. My system is as quiet as I could want it to be.

Korndog · Jan 16, 2004

GM1010 said:
I'm sorry I wrote that wrong. My MB is 29c and I have a probe in the case and it's ~26 now. For exhaust I have...you guessed it..2 80mm Stealths As for the rad, yes it's up front, I wouldn't say absolutely air-tight, but the whole front is cut out and the front case cover with vents is over it. It's this case:

http://www.antec-inc.com/us/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=90510

There is also a shroud on it which I guess isn't perfectly sealed either. I was just thinking about something in-between, like the Panaflo M1A @ 86.5 cfm and 35dba. I think that's within my noise limits but I wish there was a way to know how big of a difference it would make before spending ~$20..

if your going to spend 20 bucks on that fan, you may want to consider this instead..

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=257923

it cost me $13 + shipping which comes out to 20bucks. its more quiet then your stealth

zip22 · Jan 16, 2004

i was in your same situation, i had a stealth on my chevette and didn't think it was doing enough. 30 idle 40 load. i just got a panaflo (medium one) and it dropped my load temps 2-3 degrees. but the panaflo is considerably louder. i think i am going to 7-volt mod it, but i might put it on a switch so i can have it on 12 volts or 7 volts.

rogerdugans · Jan 16, 2004

I have tried many different permutations of fans, shrouds and voltages.
Here is what I have found works as for some general rules:
*2 push/pull fans can do about the same as one LOUD fan only much quieter.
*thicker fans (38mm vs 25mm) tend to work much better- more static pressure is the term I believe...
*a higher-rated, thick fan will usually do as well at 7volts as a 25mm quiet fan at 12 volts, and at the same noise level.
**Some type of rheobus for fan voltage adjustment is well worth the money: helps to find exactly the sweet spot in performance and also easily allow changing speeds due to higher/lower ambient temps.

As always, your mileage may vary but if possible, I think your best solution would be two fans in push/pull.
My suggestion for second best would be a Panaflo "medium" 38mm thick.

No matter which way you go, a rheobus will help you really fine-tune the airflow for best results: they can be had for anywhere from about $15 to $50 USD.

FIZZ3 · Jan 16, 2004

I've got a Sunon 120x38 pulling air through my core (shrouded). It's rated at 84cfm free flowing, but I've got it running at 7v now. CPU and mainboard temps rose a couple of degrees each from 12v to 7, but remained in the 20's idle so I left it at that.

kusojiji · Jan 16, 2004

Is your fan shrouded? Might mean all the difference. I run a 120 x 38 AC fan that does 65 cfm. I get about 33 idle / 39-40 load.

As for the procore, it has very low resistance to air flow.

gungeek · Jan 16, 2004

If the difference between idle and load temps on the cpu die are greater than 5C, you've got a problem with the block-cpu die interface; either too much or not enough TIM, uneven pressure, not enough pressure, tubing pressure pulling on the block. If so, that needs to be solved before worrying about the fan. Trapped air somewhere is a long-shot possibility, but my guess is the block mounting. It doesn't take that much airflow through a heatercore for decent performance.

With my lesser setup (see sig), the difference is only 3-4C between idle and 100% loaded. I'm running a generic 120x25mm fan at 7V; nothing special.

johan851 · Jan 16, 2004

If the difference between idle and load temps on the cpu die are greater than 5C, you've got a problem with the block-cpu die interface; either too much or not enough TIM, uneven pressure, not enough pressure, tubing pressure pulling on the block. If so, that needs to be solved before worrying about the fan.

Exactly what I was going to say. From what you're saying:

where I check the temp and see 69 deg...uh oh.

That points to some kind of CPU/Waterblock contact problem. Even a waterblock without the pump running will last longer than 4 seconds or so. A better fan on your radiator might drop temps a couple degrees, but it's not going to make the difference between 70C+ and the temps you're looking for.

A note about 38mm vs. 25mm - I was looking at some Sunon spec sheets. Basically, if you have a 38mm and a 25mm at the same RPM, the 38mm will have higher CFM, higher static pressure, and less noise.

GM1010 · Jan 16, 2004

The 69 deg was from not tightening the springs enough because of overtightening them the time before...those aren't my temps. It's running at 52 on-die now and idles at maybe 47-48 so that seems ok. And yes it is shrouded, I'm going to try sealing it a little better and see if it does anything. Oh and Korndog, I'm sure that works pretty well but i'm looking to keep the front cover on at least, lol.

*edit* The on-die temps are about the same as I got with an slk-800 and ~60 cfm 92mm fan, but the in socket is about 1-2 lower.

Xymurgy · Jan 16, 2004

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25893

gungeek · Jan 16, 2004

Is your case airflow good? Is the room hot? Could air be trapped in the waterblock or radiator? If it was trapped air in the pump you'd probably hear it.

GM1010 · Jan 16, 2004

The ambient is ~21-22 deg and for airflow I have 2 - 80mm exhausting and my fortron with 2 - 80 mm, the only air coming in is the rad. I actually think the temps are ok now, maybe with AS3 or 5 and a more powerful fan things would be alot better. Here is a temp summary running Prime:

Ambient - 22
Case(probe) - ~25-26
MB - 28
CPU - in-socket - 29
CPU - on-die - 52

Here is a picture collage of the progression, not in any particular order:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287987799

One last theory is that because I have the front cover with only a few slits, the 25mm Stealth is having problems pulling alot of air through it...

Those of you with single 120mm fans on your rad...

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