Pentium 4 3.2C + Swiftech H20-8501 = ?

First of all, I just registered, so I would like to say "Hello!" to everyone... Hello!

Next...I have a Pentium 4 3.2C. I'm currently running the FSB at 220FSB (that's 880FSB Intel-speak). It's about the most I can get without having CPU temps going through the roof when running stability tests. I want to overclock it more so I'm going to cross the line into water cooling. I'm thinking of buying a Swiftech H20-8501 cooling kit and perhaps swapping the rad with a Black Ice Micro. I know this isn't the best kit, but it's pretty much the only one that'll fit in my case since I only have room for 2 80mm fans.

So, after deciding to do this, I got all excited and started dreaming about how high I could jack up the FSB. I was just about to pounce on some Dual Channel OCZ PC-4200 Optimized DDR (DDR533), when I realized that I may not even be able to get close to 266FSB! Naturally, this made me very sad, so I am turning to this forum for guidance.

How high should I expect to get the FSB up to with this setup? Ambient temp in my room is about 25, and I'll probably only be able to get about 15-20CFM through the rad while maintaining acceptable noise levels. I need to plan my overclock so that I don't blow money on PC-4200 when I don't even come close to using it.

Or...(this occured to me also)...should I just buy PC-4200 so that when I can OC up to or beyond 266FSB (either when I lose my mind and buy Vapochill or a faster chipset comes out) then my memory will be able to keep up? Is there any performance difference between running PC-4200 at say...466 (well below spec) vs. Running PC-3700 at 466MHz (at spec) assuming the RAM timings are identical?

I'm sorry for all the questions, but I am very curious about this topic. I therefore call upon the wisdom of this forum to ease my qualms. Any advice you guys could give me will be much appreciated, thank you!

Jason Kim said:

First of all, I just registered, so I would like to say "Hello!" to everyone... Hello!

Click to expand...

Hi & welcome to the forums!

Next...I have a Pentium 4 3.2C. I'm currently running the FSB at 220FSB (that's 880FSB Intel-speak). It's about the most I can get without having CPU temps going through the roof when running stability tests. I want to overclock it more so I'm going to cross the line into water cooling. I'm thinking of buying a Swiftech H20-8501 cooling kit and perhaps swapping the rad with a Black Ice Micro. I know this isn't the best kit, but it's pretty much the only one that'll fit in my case since I only have room for 2 80mm fans.

Click to expand...

It would help if you could be more specific about temperatures, even if you have doubts about the accuracy of your readings.
Let's assume that there is indeed a thermal problem that limits your overclock for the time being. Watercooling can indeed surpass the best aircooling solutions in performance. There are two things to keep in mind though:

1) For high-end watercooling performance you will need high performance parts and most likely a custom setup.
2) Watercooling is still limited by the passive factor; the ambient room temperature is the theoretical lower limit temperature.

How high should I expect to get the FSB up to with this setup? Ambient temp in my room is about 25, and I'll probably only be able to get about 15-20CFM through the rad while maintaining acceptable noise levels. I need to plan my overclock so that I don't blow money on PC-4200 when I don't even come close to using it.

Click to expand...

How high you can go with the 3.2C depends on several things like your particular chip and what board you're running it in. With a good board you could get 266Mhz FSB or more, but your chip will hold you back before the board will in this case. I'd expect 3.5 to 3.8Ghz with optimal cooling.
As I hinted at above, the Swiftech kit is not the ultimate setup. The Black Ice micro coupled with such low CFM will certainly result in very poor performance.
It depends on your personal choices, but I suggest looking around this forum for advice about how to assemble a custom system. It's not that hard. You're basically looking for a pump, radiator and a waterblock. Finish it off with a T-piece for filling and bleeding and matching tubing.
Maybe a short shopping list is helpful here:

radiator: a heatercore like DTEK offers with barbs on it.
pump: can't miss with an Eheim 1048 or 1250, the latter being more powerful.
block: The RBX block seems to be a very good retail solution.
tubing: get 1/2" ID tubing throughout and fittings to match.
For filling and bleeding a T-piece with an end of tubing makes a great T-line.

The custom setup is likely to help you a bit in your overclocking, but how much will depend on the difference in temperature that you can achieve between the water and your current air.

Welcome to the forums! and the wonderful world of watercooling

Fizz3 got it all summed up for ya.

Probably to acheive better overclocking than your getting now (especially Vmods, maybe a mem solution?) the kits on the market presently do just marginally better than a good HSF, so your better off with a custom(check fizz3's post).
Browse this forum and you will undoubtedly will come up with some ideas to fit your own system, and will ultimately have a better performimg system and the fun of building it yourself (usually at a good savings compared to a kit).

Anyway, I guess all that was a bunch of needless babble, but hey

welcome to the forums

It sounds like fitting the radiator is the challenge for you. The radiator is very important for good water cooling performance. The general concensus is to fit (cram?) the largest heatercore that will fit into your case assuming everything has to fit inside. Some do external radiator boxes. A black ice micro or any small radiator designed for a single 80mm fan isn't close to what you're wanting to do, but they are cute. Two of those would be the bare minimum IMO and thats only for cooling the cpu heat adequately, not high performance cooling. From the extreme overclocking you desire, think performance watercooling, not adequate.

Start thinking in terms of 120mm fan(s) and heatercore(s). A slightly smaller heatercore is the D-tek JR-120 (sized for 1 120mm fan), it might be enough. Each fan should have a shroud holding it away from the radiator surface, this helps with noise and increases the amount of air pulled through the rad.

Think whitewater, RBX, or similar waterblocks and a strong enough pump to make them work well. The Swiftech MCP-600 pump is the logical choice at $80; lower cost options exist but require more work for use. For tubing, 1/2" ID 3/4" OD clearflex60 is a good and popular choice at $1-1.50 a foot; you'll need 6 feet at least.

Do some looking around the watercooling group for ideas and knowledge. Notice how people have their systems setup, tubing routed, etc. We can give you a list of parts that would work if you could fit it into the case, but wouldn't it be nice to know why they were selected? Education can help you put together a better setup and save money.

Hey, thanks for the advice guys! Let me give you some more specifics about my system.

What prompted me to consider watercooling is that I've been toying with the FSB a bit, and basically I can get it up to 220 before it'll go nuts on me with the heat. Even at 220, I get temps close to 60C when running Prime95 Torture Test. At 230, temps go through the roof. The Zalman CNPS-7000Cu is pretty good considering how quiet it is, but it's not the best cooling solution. It'll just go nuts if I try to put it up to 235 or 240, I really think the board is resistant to overclocking and combined with the inadequate cooling that I have, it's causing problems.

I'm currently using a Gigabyte GA-8KNXP Ultra (the expensive one with the on-board SCSI controler). I have some old SCSI drives left from my old system so that's why I thought it would be a good investment, but it's been giving me problems (maybe too much junk on the board), so I've decided to E-Bay it and go for an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe or an Abit IC7-G

Because I'm currently using Dual Channel PC-3200, I had to do an asynchronous overclock of the FSB so that also probably contributed to instabilities, but like I said, I want to buy faster RAM depending on how high I should expect to get my chip.

I have a Cooler Master ATC-220C-VX1 which is why my space is limited. I love this case, and that's why I'm reluctant to give it up for something bigger and better for watercooling. So, basically that's why I'm talking about putting in 80mm rads and stuff. Is this a futile attempt at trying to cool my CPU better with such limited space? I would really like to stay away from external solutions.

I was reading around, and the Swiftech MCW5000 seemed to be one of the best around with a C/W of about .23 The RBX is better though with a C/W of closer to .15 I think, but I'm not sure the MCP600 can handle it? I plan on using a GPU waterblock also. I'm having trouble finding good pumps. I would rather not use aquarium pumps since they are bulky, any of you guys know of a decently sized pump stronger than the MCP600?

By the way, what's a shroud? And where can I buy one? It's not the same as an adapter I'm assuming. If it helps with airflow and with noise, then I'm all for it since I'm getting annoyed with the "dead spots" in the airflow with my case fans and the noise that they produce.

Once again, thanks for the posts, and I'm very sorry for the long post... I'll try to cut it down in the future. If you guys want pictures let me know, I just saved up and got a Leica Digilux 1 and the pictures it takes are superb!

Hey jason i used the same kit and here's pics of my case. It works very well.

water coole case pictures

if you have any questions on how to do anything i've practiced a lot. I have a raid max scorpio case so it isn't that big either.

Jason Kim said:

I have a Cooler Master ATC-220C-VX1 which is why my space is limited. I love this case, and that's why I'm reluctant to give it up for something bigger and better for watercooling. So, basically that's why I'm talking about putting in 80mm rads and stuff. Is this a futile attempt at trying to cool my CPU better with such limited space? I would really like to stay away from external solutions.

Click to expand...

I think it will be very hard to achieve better cooling if you limit yourself to 80mm radiators, especially with that case. The ATC220 has that acrylic plate covering the front, and this cuts off most of the room the case has in the lower front from access to outside air. I have the ATC210 myself, which has a sizeable grille instead of the acrylic- my core is getting its air through it.
Anyway, if you want to stick with that case and still want performance watercooling I suggest looking for an external box. Certainly, you're now looking at a more extensive project of a custom setup in a custom box that will have to be linked to the ATC220 (i.e. it will have to have some holes in the bottom or top for the tubing to pass through). However complicated it may seem, there really are only seriously compromised ways around this approach if you want to meet the goals you set yourself.

By the way, what's a shroud? And where can I buy one? It's not the same as an adapter I'm assuming. If it helps with airflow and with noise, then I'm all for it since I'm getting annoyed with the "dead spots" in the airflow with my case fans and the noise that they produce.

Click to expand...

This is a shroud:

http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=116

It serves to match the surface area of a X by X (say 120x120mm) fan to a typically larger fin area of a radiator. Simple yet effective. People make these from tupperware boxes, but buying them pre-made doesn't drain the wallet in a bad way either.

Thanks for the input! Know any other sites I might be able to find a larger variety of shrouds?

Dangerden also offers shrouds, for example.

http://www.dangerden.com/mall/Misc_Hardware/shroud.asp

I'm sure there are others, as shrouds are becoming common watercooling accessories, so just look at what your retailer of choice offers.