(OLD THREAD-updated) Silver Themal Paste -http://www.overclockers.com/articles938/

[stool]

Silver Themal Paste (http://www.overclockers.com/articles938/)

Great article by SSS that should open some eyes. I imagine this one should get a lot of attention, especially as it seems that at least one person from OCZ has joined the forums.

[Fink]

Is the test is dependent on the binder? The muriatic acid/nitric acid test uses a water base, if the binder used to hold the thermal paste together is oil based, I suspect that there is little ability for the two to mix, thus a false negative. I would ask that the author use a second testing method for the presence of silver to confirm his original data.

Wonder if you separated the 'silver' out by dissolving the binder into a suitable solvent (hexanes, mineral oil, silicon oil, etc.) and filtering the 'silver' out, if the test results would be different. Just my $0.02.

[Tekime]

BaldHeadedDork, I'm no lawyer but how is it defamation when they specifically said "if" that was the reason? Sounds more like speculation rather than defamation. But again, I'm no lawyer. It sounds reasonable for me to see a review site express an opinion though.

Anyway, not to distract from the important issue here... I'm no chemist so I have no idea how accurate the test was. But Fink made an interesting point.

Wouldn't it have been a good idea to contact OCZ to give them a chance to react before posting this? Maybe it is silver, I find it hard to believe they would do something so blatantly stupid after their already tarnished past. Then again, people do do some pretty numb things.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Fink
Is the test is dependent on the binder? The muriatic acid/nitric acid test uses a water base, if the binder used to hold the thermal paste together is oil based, I suspect that there is little ability for the two to mix, thus a false negative. I would ask that the author use a second testing method for the presence of silver to confirm his original data.

Wonder if you separated the 'silver' out by dissolving the binder into a suitable solvent (hexanes, mineral oil, silicon oil, etc.) and filtering the 'silver' out, if the test results would be different. Just my $0.02.


My tests results are accurate and have been confirmed to be accurate. I stand by my conclusions 100%

[Softgod]

Sam,

Can I send you a sample of some paste. I have been buying then Antec brand Arctic Silver at Best Buy since it is local to me. It is in the same container at the AS3 but I have a bad feeling that tells me that it is the same thing at the CompUSA brand. If you can pick some up at best buy that is cool or I can send you some.

[Nevin]

The Antec compound IS made with real silver.

Nevin House
Arctic Silver, Inc.

[Huckleberry]

Originally posted by Nevin
The Antec compound IS made with real silver.

Nevin House
Arctic Silver, Inc.

Nevin, at the risk of being excessively prying, it sounds like you have additional information on this subject. It would be interesting to hear of your perspective (delicately, of course) and observations.

[L337 M33P]

Posted this in the Cooling thread cos I saw that first...

The testing solution was Nitric acid and Muriatic acid that was pre-mixed professionally.

So, how come Nitric Acid and Hydrochloric Acid are colourless but that solution is red?

Chemical tests can be fooled or turn up false negatives. As already stated, silicone oil on the silver particles will prevent them from dissolving due to the acid. The only way to tell for definite is to use a Nuclear Mass Spectrometer.

That is one test that turns up postitive or negative. To be more precise you need confirmation. Reduction of silver ions with bromine will result in a characteristic grey precipitate, for example.

[Nevin]

At this time I only will comment on the Antec compound.
Their Silver Reference Compound will have identical performance as Arctic Silver 3 while their Formula 5 Silver Compound will have identical performance as Arctic Silver 5.

If you get my drift. ;)

Nevin

[Huckleberry]

Yes, your drift is "gotten." :)

It sounds like the Antec stuff had a great set of engineers working on it. I'd hire them, if I were you...

[Fink]

Originally posted by L337 M33P
Posted this in the Cooling thread cos I saw that first...

So, how come Nitric Acid and Hydrochloric Acid are colourless but that solution is red?

Chemical tests can be fooled or turn up false negatives. As already stated, silicone oil on the silver particles will prevent them from dissolving due to the acid. The only way to tell for definite is to use a Nuclear Mass Spectrometer.

That is one test that turns up postitive or negative. To be more precise you need confirmation. Reduction of silver ions with bromine will result in a characteristic grey precipitate, for example.

Hmm, the website that talks about the test solutions used (link (http://shorinternational.com/TestGoldScratch.htm)) mentions not a color change but a cloudiness when exposed to silver in various purities.

A color change would lead me to believe that there is an indicator in the solution that will react to a change in the concentration of Cl-, Ag+ or solution pH. But going back to gen chem, a nitric acid/muriatic acid (AKA hydrochloric acid) will give a white solid, AgCl precipitate, so the solution should go cloudy as well.

[computerbias]

Somebody educate me, why would I want silver in my paste anyway, as long as it conducts heat, I am ok. the more heat conducting the better.

Does the silver act as a better conductor to the heat than other materials?

I would wonder also. if the silver may cause an electrical conduit, and if so, should I be concerned?

[Wicked Klown]

Yes silver is a better conductor of heat then normal TIM. Thats also the reason the Cascade SS is better then the Cascade. As for being concerned not really as long as your carefull. Just put in on tthe CPU die and nothing else as in traces and such.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by L337 M33P
Posted this in the Cooling thread cos I saw that first...



So, how come Nitric Acid and Hydrochloric Acid are colourless but that solution is red?

Chemical tests can be fooled or turn up false negatives. As already stated, silicone oil on the silver particles will prevent them from dissolving due to the acid. The only way to tell for definite is to use a Nuclear Mass Spectrometer.

That is one test that turns up postitive or negative. To be more precise you need confirmation. Reduction of silver ions with bromine will result in a characteristic grey precipitate, for example.

The chemical is orange I have additional confirmation, Please head over to this THREAD (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=264186) and read all about my Labratory Test to confirm my findings. There will be a Part 2 to my Article, this will include LAB results. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Originally posted by Softgod
Sam,

Can I send you a sample of some paste. I have been buying then Antec brand Arctic Silver at Best Buy since it is local to me. It is in the same container at the AS3 but I have a bad feeling that tells me that it is the same thing at the CompUSA brand. If you can pick some up at best buy that is cool or I can send you some.

I have two tubes of Dynex from Best Buy coming to me. Anyone that wants any Thermal compund tested for silver can e-mail ME (silversinksam@comcast.net)

Just place a dab in a plastic baggie's corner and I will test it for silver. It would be to costly for me to have every paste sample send to me to be labratory tested. But I can test it for silver content no problem.

[skou]

I have a question, should we trust a manufacturer of other stuff, if they woild try to decieve us with their thermal greases?

Some of these companies also make other stuff. (Like memory.)

SSSam, your article has made it to Abit's forum, someone linked to it. As always, keep up the good work!!

steve

[matrickage]

ive found ceramic to be a better conductor then any AS3 or AS5...

it doesnt have any silver... did anyone catch the review of paste a while ago at dans data and he reviewed some toothpaste and found it to be within 2-3C of the best thermal compound...

this whole thing is a joke... ther are too many variables to place judgement on any company...especially a company that produces better memory than anyone else...

just my .02c :rolleyes:

[Colin]

Now you are using this is an opportunity to attack a legitimate product. Dan's interpretation of the Dan's Data tests is the joke. Read all three pages of this thread (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=77909585&m=7970973985&p=1) and learn.

Colin Thompson
Arctic Silver, Inc.

[matrickage]

Originally posted by Colin
Now you are using this is an opportunity to attack a legitimate product. Dan's interpretation of the Dan's Data tests is the joke. Read all three pages of this thread (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=77909585&m=7970973985&p=1) and learn.

Colin Thompson
Arctic Silver, Inc.

heres some quotage taken from Dans site after a letter from a AS fan.... http://www.dansdata.com/danletters065.htm

"Goop wars
Your article about the difference between thermal compounds came up in a forum I frequent, and to our surprise a representative claiming to be from Arctic Silver responded, pretty much saying your testing is complete ********.

Here's the thread.

So... any response?

James

Answer:
Gee, wouldn't it have been nice of Nevin (assuming it's actually him posting there) to tell me all this when I notified him of the review, well over a year ago? Or, well, ever?

While he's at it, he can take the issue up with LostCircuits, who would like to talk to him about cod liver oil.

Arctic Silver sent me some grease, and I reviewed it, and apparently got it all completely wrong. Who knew, since they couldn't find time in their day to talk to me about my apparently incompetent testing of it, and went on to send me some Ceramique to play with later. You'd think they'd stop sending review product to such a lousy reviewer, but nope.

Oddly enough, I similarly don't have time to address Nevin's backhanded complaints about my review in detail, largely because they're not very coherent; I don't know where he studied the "Science 101" he mentions, but it doesn't work that way on my side of the world.

The basic point he makes, though, is that the more heat you're trying to move and the smaller the contact patch is, the larger will be the influence of the thermal interface material.

I've tested grease with small contact patch simulators in the middle of my CPU-imitating heater plate (the little patch plates are fiddly and annoying, which is why I don't usually bother using them), and so far as I can see, there's bugger-all difference then, too. CPU cooling doesn't deal with above-boiling temperatures or super-hard clamping force, so it's not actually a tremendously critical application for thermal compound.

The meaningful differences between compounds, for CPU cooling purposes, seem to largely be ease of application and durability. If you can't get a good thin consistent layer onto the CPU, it doesn't matter how good the goop is thermally; also, if it all leaks out the edge of the contact patch over six months, or turns into powder, it's no good.

Arctic Silver products have always been pretty durable and reasonably easy to apply, and I've said so."


i feel the same way... in all actuality ive used many types of thermal paste and after dans review i also used some toothpaste because it was late at night and i was out of whatever it was i was using at the time...

i generally think that this whole review is just one big complaint against OCZ from general resentment, and I think AS sees this as a marketing oppurtunity in the truest capaitalistic sense...

to put it in English this is really dumb, and the representatives from AS are making themselves look even dumber for not paying attention to the obvious...

I guess ill just have to hold on while AS captures the memory module market :rolleyes:

[Silversinksam]

Please remember my article has nothing to do with the performance of any any Silver thermal compound. My article dealt solely with the accuracy of the manufacturers claimed ingredients.

BTW matrickage are you still affiliated with OCZ?

[bigtoe33]

Guys im not a mod here but if I was I would be closing this thread.

The issue is we are waiting for results from a lab.All this BS going back and forth is just thst BS...Lets see what the lab says...We at OCZ will act on it accordingly.We DON'T make the stuff but have contacted the people that do and asked the same questions most of you guys are asking.

It is a problem yes...we know and we are doing something about it...

last point I have been a member here for ages...like well over a year so im not new to these forums..I just don't post a lot here.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by bigtoe33
Guys im not a mod here but if I was I would be closing this thread.

The issue is we are waiting for results from a lab.All this BS going back and forth is just thst BS...Lets see what the lab says...We at OCZ will act on it accordingly.We DON'T make the stuff but have contacted the people that do and asked the same questions most of you guys are asking.

It is a problem yes...we know and we are doing something about it...

last point I have been a member here for ages...like well over a year so im not new to these forums..I just don't post a lot here.

Why should this thread be closed? I already know what's in OCZ ULTRA II Silver Premium Compound and what's in Compusa's Silver Grease,(They both are virtually identicle as per my lab findings) should the world stop until you figure out whats in your own product?

Your product is composed of Aluminum Oxide in a Polymeric binder of dimethyl Siloxane (silicone) and it contains an organic Silver coloring to give it a silver 'appearance'. with trace elements of copper and Zinc. Plus some Hydrocarbon, but it has no Silver(Ag)


Originally posted by bigtoe33

last point I have been a member here for ages...like well over a year so im not new to these forums..I just don't post a lot here.

If time has been going by that fast I missed a few pay raises in my retirement, your profile says you signed up in July 2003. That's Seven months ago. Thats less than a year and not even in Internet terms can be considered 'ages'. :rolleyes:

[bigtoe33]

I had to rejoin as i lost my noted password and login.I used to be just bigtoe without the 33 ;)

I wasn't saying close the thread because of what you found.I said close the thread as it was becoming a flaming session.

My home forum is abxzone.com...flaming isn't tollerated at all.Im a mod there and was just stating that i didn't like what i was seeing here from the viewpoint of a mod.

[bigtoe33]

Your product is composed of Aluminum Oxide in a Polymeric binder of dimethyl Siloxane (silicone) and it contains an organic Silver coloring to give it a silver 'appearance'. with trace elements of copper and Zinc. Plus some Hydrocarbon, but it has no Silver(Ag)

Did you test for silver oxide?

[skou]

Having read Sam's posts for at least 2 years, I find it real hard to brelieve that he would allow ANY!! flaming. I've seen him attack flamers like a pit bull on a postman. :D :D

I also haven't seen any attacks on any person on this thread.

steve

[bigtoe33]

Skou

We had a rep from AS going at a member about toothpaste.....jesus!! we have the problem here no one else.

Like i said to you on the Abit forum its best we get on with sorting this issue out without is delving to the depths of a major OCZ bash or anything else with people getting heated up on forums.The paste actually does work...peoples cpu's are NOT going to die here...

Please lets just wait for the results and then we can all discuss what we are going to do.Im talking with the CEO of OCZ about this and he agree's keeping people in the frame is best.

And lastly please leave our ram out of this...We work hard to ensure good quality and an excellent after sales service...hell i was even helping guys on Xmas day who had got new ram as a present..

[silent bob]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


Your product is composed of Aluminum Oxide in a Polymeric binder of dimethyl Siloxane (silicone) and it contains an organic Silver coloring to give it a silver 'appearance'. with trace elements of copper and Zinc. Plus some Hydrocarbon, but it has no Silver(Ag)


Article originally submitted by Silversinksam to Overclockers.com


This test was not conducted to test performance, but rather to determine if these compounds have Silver as an ingredient.


I dont see anything relating to silver oxide , just silver coloring .

The only difference I see is when using anything other than AS 3, or 5 , is the RE-application time frame is different , AS for me I go 8 months before I reapply , anything else is 3-4 months . So in my opinion , I dont want to be bothered with the reapplication every 3-4 months , but, some people just dont mind I guess . Me I would rather play some NFSU myself
well thats just my 2¢

silent bob

[PhoenixMDM]

This was a great idea SSS! Glad to know that the Antec stuff I've been using is for real...

It would be great if you could run this test on all the common goops claiming to contain silver, that way everyone can know for sure what they're getting.

*makes note to self: only buy AS/Antec in the future if possible...*

[AntiHeiss]

Am I wrong here but I think many people are getting the wrong impression of who meant what. Also realize now that I am biased towards SSS and AS. Both have earned my trust over the years. With that said, here is what I see...

1. Sam has never proven himself to not be completely trustworthy to me. Bias...I know.

2. The question in my mind is not "does it work" or "does it not work". The question isn't "is it quality product" or "does the manufacturer know about it", the question also is not "what are you doing about it".
The question is:
"were we lied to", and then perhaps "were we lied to again". That is the looming question here. Matter of fact, I have never used anything except Artic Silver. The problem with all of this is that there is a claim that silver is present in a compound when it could not be. This qualifies as pretences, and even false pretenses. Perhaps even false advertisement. I don't even care about that though, I just don't like the idea of being lied to.

3. As for Artic Silver, I have seen them tested and tried and questioned plenty of times. Every time they have proven thier worth as a quality product. As for people saying that Artic Silver is using this as a type of campaign to push their own product, I'd agree. If I worked at AS, I would be happy for this comparison, and I would take full advantage of such an event. Take that, or leave it.

[matrickage]

Originally posted by Silversinksam
Please remember my article has nothing to do with the performance of any any Silver thermal compound. My article dealt solely with the accuracy of the manufacturers claimed ingredients.

BTW matrickage are you still affiliated with OCZ?

its been close to 4 yrs since i worked for them...

[Pinky]

Originally posted by bigtoe33
We had a rep from AS going at a member about toothpaste.....jesus!! we have the problem here no one else.

Like i said to you on the Abit forum its best we get on with sorting this issue out without is delving to the depths of a major OCZ bash or anything else with people getting heated up on forums.The paste actually does work...peoples cpu's are NOT going to die here...

Please lets just wait for the results and then we can all discuss what we are going to do.Im talking with the CEO of OCZ about this and he agree's keeping people in the frame is best.

And lastly please leave our ram out of this...We work hard to ensure good quality and an excellent after sales service...hell i was even helping guys on Xmas day who had got new ram as a present..

"We" are not concerned necessarily with what "you" folks do about "your" problem, k? Sometimes the thrill is just catching "you" folks with "your" pants down. The state attorney general does the rest ;).

As a member of the overclocking community for a number of years now, might I suggest you save face and run away like OCZ usually does? Time heals most wounds. The fact you folks are still in business is evidence of that fact :rolleyes:

Save the act for a more gullible bunch.

[bigtoe33]

Pinky

Why would i run away?....you have me mistaken for someone else i think.

Also OCZ will not run away either as this would just lead to mass bash with a return to "OCZ are no different than they were 2 yrs ago or so" even though most don't know all the facts(many are very private)

We will stand by Sams results if the lab comes back with the same, we will then look to the supplier for further answers...all we have asked is that you all be patient so that we can get answers and pass them on.

I have been away from forums since 5am UK time apart from 3 threads and this is the only one where I have seen anything really negative...its like you want to draw me into arguing with you.Well im sorry..no arguing here from me.Lets see what the lab says.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by bigtoe33
Pinky

Why would i run away?....you have me mistaken for someone else i think.

Nope, you're definitely vested in derailing this thread and Sam's results... got the right guy ;).

[skou]

Pinky, I have been reading his posts, and this sounds like a BIG PR move. So far, I haven't seen any substantial factual information to dispute anything that Sam has posted.

I would like to see something to back up all these speculations. I still can't believe that ANY company would be buying a product from their supplier, (that's supposed to contain 70% precious metal), without verifying that the stated precious metal is in there.

Something smells fishy!

Bigtoe, would you like to say what you do for OCZ?

I've seen (and asked) a few times, what is the status on OCZ's MSDS on this product? Does it reflect the true content of this product, or is it a fabrication? The federal government does NOT like falsifying of these documents, and will prosecute heavily. This alone can possibly shut down OCZ.

steve

[Hoot]

I'm really miffed! I bought some Scott's Liquid Gold for my kitchen cabinets, only to find out there's no Gold in it. Grrr.... :mad:

Hoot

"I wouldn't trade the silver in my mothers hair for all the gold in the world..."

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Hoot
I'm really miffed! I bought some Scott's Liquid Gold for my kitchen cabinets, only to find out there's no Gold in it. Grrr.... :mad:

lol

:p

[bigtoe33]

Originally posted by skou
Pinky, I have been reading his posts, and this sounds like a BIG PR move. So far, I haven't seen any substantial factual information to dispute anything that Sam has posted.

I would like to see something to back up all these speculations. I still can't believe that ANY company would be buying a product from their supplier, (that's supposed to contain 70% precious metal), without verifying that the stated precious metal is in there.

Something smells fishy!

Bigtoe, would you like to say what you do for OCZ?

I've seen (and asked) a few times, what is the status on OCZ's MSDS on this product? Does it reflect the true content of this product, or is it a fabrication? The federal government does NOT like falsifying of these documents, and will prosecute heavily. This alone can possibly shut down OCZ.

steve

Regarding publication of the results of the test and all other documentation, this will come from OCZ direct and not from me.By now the samples should be being tested and the results should come back this afternoon EST.It has been decided to wait till these results come back before any publication is made..i did not make this decission..the CEO did and that is NOT me.Also as far as i know Sam will also recieve these results before they are published.

My role at OCZ is product consultant and online support.When you guys have problems with your memory i help you get them sorted. I also test many of the most popular boards and help manufacturers sqeeze a little more from them in bios files or revisions.I have worked with DFI and Abit on bios files and modded many files for many others. I also published the hack that allows the P4P800D to have full PAT and be faster than its 875 brothers..I was the first to flash the P4S333 with the 533 bios and many other tweaks over the past 5 years.

Im not here to BS you but I don't make the decissions either..your going to have to wait till an official statement comes out..simple as that!!

[Pinky]

Originally posted by skou
Pinky, I have been reading his posts, and this sounds like a BIG PR move.

It's natural for any company to attempt an about 'save-face' when their back's to the proverbial wall. It was anticipated. You may notice the amount of attention from blues and greens ;).

Now the only concern will be validating their results, assuming (as I already am) that they will not be in agreement with Sam's... admission to this will be in violation of enough regulatory stuff that they legally couldn't afford the admission even if it were true... :rolleyes:

[GameFAQsRolo]

Nice work SSS. I look forward to Part 2 of the article.:thup:

[cmcquistion]

This situation at OCZ reminds me of a joke...

"I had to take a drug test for a job. I took the test and got some good news and some bad news. I passed the test, but my dealer has some explaining to do..."

[skou]

Originally posted by cmcquistion
This situation at OCZ reminds me of a joke...

"I had to take a drug test for a job. I took the test and got some good news and some bad news. I passed the test, but my dealer has some explaining to do..."

Best I've heard in a long time!!:D :D :eek: :D

steve

Edit; Still nothing about the MSDS. Strange. /edit

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by skou


Best I've heard in a long time!!:D :D :eek: :D

steve

Edit; Still nothing about the MSDS. Strange. /edit

Still waiting myself for their MSDS and the Independent Lab report from them....

[skou]

Originally posted by bigtoe33


Did you test for silver oxide?

Why test for silver oxide, it is advertised as 99.9% micronized silver. there would be MUCH more oxygen than 0.1% in silver oxide.

Do you use silver oxide in the mix, or is it the silver like you are advertising? I noticed that both you and Sean say that your grease contains silver oxide. Does it?

Where is the MSDS?

there are too many questions that are popping up. And, the answers DON'T depend on testing.

Care to answer any of them? Tony, Sean?

[skou]

Originally posted by Pinky


As a member of the overclocking community for a number of years now, might I suggest you save face and run away like OCZ usually does? Time heals most wounds. The fact you folks are still in business is evidence of that fact :rolleyes:

Save the act for a more gullible bunch.

OOH, that's gonna leave a mark!!

Pinky, I wasn't going to say that, because I really don't remember all of the details, but I do remember some kind of massive stink that went on, just about the same time that I joined here.

steve

[SeanOMatic]

Hey guys,

Please check out our official statement for more details. I have been with my grandmother in Kaiser hospital all day after she had more heart complications.

OCZ will be getting all of the lab information and test results shortly. We will then issue another statement and take every necessary avenue to assist our customers.

-Sean

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by bigtoe33
Im not here to BS you but I don't make the decissions either..your going to have to wait till an official statement comes out..simple as that!!

Originally posted by SeanOMatic
Hey guys,

Please check out our official statement for more details.

...and where might we find the official statement? You didn't post it, here. I'm looking at your homepage and your press releases page and I don't see anything there, either.

[Newbie_Doo]

Let's give them time to produce the "Official Statement" and the "Lab Results". I realize that we are all working in Internet Time here, but lab testing takes time and I suspect that the report will need to be vetted by counsel prior to publication.

I believe Sam's test results. I believe that OCZ got burned. Whether OCZ got burned by Sam, or by their own supplier, remains to be seen. In any case, some explanations need to be forthcoming. In the meantime, let's all take a deep breath or two...

My $0.03, tax included

[Maxvla]

well said newbie :)

[Maxvla]

OCZ Ultra II has been recalled

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27280

[bigtoe33]

OCZ would like to take this time to address the recent article published at Overclockers.com, which shows that OCZ Ultra 2 thermal compound has no silver content.

OCZ does not manufacture Ultra 2 thermal compound in house, it is provided by a foreign manufacturer with our specifications. Previous independent lab tests conducted at the request of OCZ have shown that the silver compound content in Ultra 2 is 25% by volume and 70% by weight.

In response to this article, OCZ has submitted another batch of Ultra 2 to a third party for extensive lab testing. This Independent lab report show’s that the most recent batch of OCZ Ultra 2 indeed contains less than 1% silver by volume. While simultaneously we have received lab reports from an outside source indicating the silver content to be 30% by weight. This leads us to the conclusion that recent batch(s) of OCZ Ultra 2 from our supplier did not meet the agreed specifications.

We accept full responsibility for these problems and we will be seeking legal action against our supplier.

In order to help solve this problem we have contacted Arctic Silver Inc, and entered into a vendor agreement with them to supply OCZ thermal paste.

Beginning January 22nd 2004 we are issuing a full recall of any and all OCZ Ultra 2.

Any Customers who wish to return OCZ Ultra 2 thermal paste with an invoice will in exchange for their full or partially used tube(s) receive:
1- One (dependant on # of tubes returned) 3-gram OCZ thermal Compound (made by Arctic Silver Inc.) or one OCZ Dominator 2 Heatsink.
2- One OCZ EL DDR T-Shirt
3- One 10 dollar off rebate on any OCZ EL DDR Dual Channel Kit (at participating resellers)

For more Information or instructions on returning your ultra 2 please email recall@ocztechnology.com .


http://www.ocztechnology.com/displaypage.php?name=recall

[stompah]

[/Typical]

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by bigtoe33
OCZ would like to take this time to address the recent article published at Overclockers.com, which shows that OCZ Ultra 2 thermal compound has no silver content.

OCZ does not manufacture Ultra 2 thermal compound in house, it is provided by a foreign manufacturer with our specifications. Previous independent lab tests conducted at the request of OCZ have shown that the silver compound content in Ultra 2 is 25% by volume and 70% by weight.

In response to this article, OCZ has submitted another batch of Ultra 2 to a third party for extensive lab testing. This Independent lab report show’s that the most recent batch of OCZ Ultra 2 indeed contains less than 1% silver by volume. While simultaneously we have received lab reports from an outside source indicating the silver content to be 30% by weight. This leads us to the conclusion that recent batch(s) of OCZ Ultra 2 from our supplier did not meet the agreed specifications.

We accept full responsibility for these problems and we will be seeking legal action against our supplier.

In order to help solve this problem we have contacted Arctic Silver Inc, and entered into a vendor agreement with them to supply OCZ thermal paste.

Beginning January 22nd 2004 we are issuing a full recall of any and all OCZ Ultra 2.

Any Customers who wish to return OCZ Ultra 2 thermal paste with an invoice will in exchange for their full or partially used tube(s) receive:
1- One (dependant on # of tubes returned) 3-gram OCZ thermal Compound (made by Arctic Silver Inc.) or one OCZ Dominator 2 Heatsink.
2- One OCZ EL DDR T-Shirt
3- One 10 dollar off rebate on any OCZ EL DDR Dual Channel Kit (at participating resellers)

For more Information or instructions on returning your ultra 2 please email recall@ocztechnology.com .


http://www.ocztechnology.com/displaypage.php?name=recall


I would like to commend OCZ for investigating this once I brought it to their attention and commend OCZ's quick action. I truly was shocked to discover the absence of Silver and I am truly grateful for OCZ's Owner and Staff to quickly find a remedy.

I will write an article or an editorial to praise OCZ's actions shortly. OCZ did not turn a blind eye to this situation like Compusa has, and continues to do.

Silversinksam

[computerbias]

Still nobody answered my question of the paste with silver being an electrical conduit, is that ANYthing to be concerned with.

and darn it all, I was going to ask about the compound I use, but can't find in right now. I guess I will ask when I find it

[bigtoe33]

I hope we have shown we are true to our word here.I said we would deliver and we did. Please be aware we can't just release things at will to the internet..there are many factors to take into consideration.

Let's give them time to produce the "Official Statement" and the "Lab Results". I realize that we are all working in Internet Time here, but lab testing takes time and I suspect that the report will need to be vetted by counsel prior to publication.

Wise words..thank you :)

[skou]

Originally posted by skou


Why test for silver oxide, it is advertised as 99.9% micronized silver. there would be MUCH more oxygen than 0.1% in silver oxide.

Do you use silver oxide in the mix, or is it the silver like you are advertising? I noticed that both you and Sean say that your grease contains silver oxide. Does it?

Where is the MSDS?

there are too many questions that are popping up. And, the answers DON'T depend on testing.

Care to answer any of them? Tony, Sean?

Again, care to answer any of these?

steve

[bigtoe33]

skou

Please be aware that we are unable to comment/release anything further as i explained in this post.

Originally posted by bigtoe33
I hope we have shown we are true to our word here.I said we would deliver and we did. Please be aware we can't just release things at will to the internet..there are many factors to take into consideration.

We had hoped the recall would be enough for you guys and allow us to work behind the scenes on the issues with supplier etc.We need to take further advice..this takes time.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by skou


Again, care to answer any of these?

steve

Steve,
It's immaterial at this point since the product is recalled and replaced with another product. For that products MSDS or other info, That particular vendor lists it on their website. Now Compusa still has an issues on the table, but OCZ has done all they can.

[skou]

Bigtoe, you posted in a few threads tha your grease contained silver oxide, as did Sean. Is that true or not?

Or;

Your specs for the product said that it contains 99.9% micronized silver. Is that not 99.9% pure silver?

One of these 2 statements isn't correct, but I don't know which one. Can you clarify?

Also, is there a MSDS?

All of these questions are legitimate, and none of them depend on any testing to answer. And could have been answered last week.

Or am I fabricating something?

steve

[Richard]

Thumbs up to OCZ for the rapid response.

[skou]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


Steve,
It's immaterial at this point since the product is recalled and replaced with another product. For that products MSDS or other info, That particular vendor lists it on their website. Now Compusa still has an issues on the table, but OCZ has done all they can.

Sam, you're right, as usual. I'll let it die.

steve

[Matt761]

Man, i didn't think this site had such an influence. Nice find SSS and im happy ocz has done something about it.

[Trigger_Hippie]

10/10 for OCZ for teh responce..
If the paste manufacture is outsourced then it is quite normal for the brand (OCZ) to spec the product and then pass spec to outsource company. After this point a contractual agreement is entered into ensuring product meets some min requirements. The brand then usually runs independent test on its products at irregular intervals to ensure product is being manufactured at required spec.

Its quite possible that OCZ have just been caught out by a 3rd party trying to increase their profit margin by decreasing % of valuable materials… I’m pretty sure that OCZ would have figured this out anyway without the article. If we had heard about it or not and the subsequent recall occurring is another thing.

[new_novice]

you're on slashdot

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Matt761
Man, i didn't think this site had such an influence.

It doesn't, but the truth and truth seeker (Sam) does. ;)

Frankly, I'm surprised they bothered with the admission. Usually recalls are done when the cost to recall is less than the impending law suit/legal action... okay, wait, nevermind (just answered my own inquiry :p ).

Watch these OCZ folks closely (make sure they keep their word).

Guess compusa has more to lose here... time to contact my attorney general!

[bigtoe33]

I will ask regular updates on returned samples are posted to the website if needed.Please believe Ryan and OCZ are true to their word.

Skou

I Have all you need to see here but im under NDA on it due to possible legal issues.Like I said and Sam did, please let us get on with dealing with this ourselves now..the net is not the place for possible legal wrangles.

[NicePants42]

OCZ should get some serious props for this one. How often do you see swift justice dealt in today's corporate world?

Good luck with the litigations, OCZ. Way to go. :rock:

[Thespis377]

it's been /.ed. I bet your webserver is SMOKING and SCREAMING FOR HELP!!! I hope nothing I ever do gets slashdotted. My host would KILL me!

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by NicePants42
OCZ should get some serious props for this one. How often do you see swift justice dealt in today's corporate world?

Good luck with the litigations, OCZ. Way to go. :rock:

OCZ fixed the problem without entering into any litigation, and they deserve my absolute praise for their quick action. Compusa apparently does not care that they have a misrepresented product on their store shelves. But I am not done with them as Part 2 of my article will be out Monday.

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by Silversinksam
OCZ fixed the problem without entering into any litigation, and they deserve my absolute praise for their quick action.

I agree with you, but...

Although OCZ was quick to fix the problem, I am personally quite bothered by the fact that they sold a product under false labeling, to begin with. In my mind, if a company is going to put their name on something and market it, they need to know what it really is. Are their other products (memory) outsourced, also? If so, how do I know that one of their other suppliers isn't ripping them off and they aren't ripping me off, because they don't know what their supplier is sending them?

[DaddyB]

Wow, I'm Impressed that the article had such an impact. I've only used AS's products so this doesn't really affect me personally but I found the results interesting anyway.

I guess it goes to show that one person really can make a difference (especially when it's SSS). OCZ has done more then I would have expected a company to do already so I'd like to convey my thanks to both SSS and OCZ for finding, verifying and taking steps towards fixing the problem!

Edited to answer the question quoted below:

Originally posted by computerbias
Still nobody answered my question of the paste with silver being an electrical conduit, is that ANYthing to be concerned with.


It doesn't matter if it is used correctly, if you only put it on the core and only use the proper amount (so that it doesnt squish out and get all over your chip) then it's no problem. Let's not forget the heatsink itself is conductive (copper).

I don't know about other compounds but AS is non conductive, it is however capacitive, so it may act as a capacitor. For that reason it is reccommended that you use non conductive/non capacative compounds in places where you are likely to get some of the compound on some leads/pins (such as using epoxy to put RAMsinks onto your video card). That is what Arctic Alumina or Arctic Silver Ceramique are for, they contain no silver but perform almost as well as silver containg compounds.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by cmcquistion
Are their other products (memory) outsourced, also? If so, how do I know that one of their other suppliers isn't ripping them off and they aren't ripping me off, because they don't know what their supplier is sending them?

Wow, reading my mind. I didn't raise this as an afterthought (felt it would be beating a dead horse)... but good to see different minds thinking for a stronger america ;).

[rmonster]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


I agree with you, but...

Although OCZ was quick to fix the problem, I am personally quite bothered by the fact that they sold a product under false labeling, to begin with. In my mind, if a company is going to put their name on something and market it, they need to know what it really is. Are their other products (memory) outsourced, also?

Re: memory question, there's an interesting read to be found here: http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1843

The "hmmm" part begins around the third page. Apparently, lasering samsung memory to burn off a layer of substrate, then remarking the chips as "OCZ" brand at a higher speed rating seems to sum the process up.

Whether this is done on-site, or by a third party is never stated, however, I'd be willing to bank on the third-party theory.

To be fair to OCZ, they disclosed this to Anandtech openly, however, after veiwing the pics of the remarked chips, one wonders if the situation was in any way similar to the current one.
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/memory/ddr/ocz/3700gold/sam-las.jpg

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by rmonster


Re: memory question, there's an interesting read to be found here: http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1843

The "hmmm" part begins around the third page. Apparently, lasering samsung memory to burn off a layer of substrate, then remarking the chips as "OCZ" brand at a higher speed rating seems to sum the process up.

Whether this is done on-site, or by a third party is never stated, however, I'd be willing to bank on the third-party theory.

To be fair to OCZ, they disclosed this to Anandtech openly, however, after veiwing the pics of the remarked chips, one wonders if the situation was in any way similar to the current one.




Please remember this thread is in regards to Silver Thermal Pastes.

I would appreciate if this isn't turned into an Anti-OCZ platform regarding memory. There is a memory section here (http://www.ocforums.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=22), and OCZ has an Official, OCZ Technology Information and Support HERE (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=138) over at XtremeSystems.

[Pinky]

...and from the anandtech article, it appears their memory lasering process is legitimate.

[skou]

Originally posted by bigtoe33
I will ask regular updates on returned samples are posted to the website if needed.Please believe Ryan and OCZ are true to their word.

Skou

I Have all you need to see here but im under NDA on it due to possible legal issues.Like I said and Sam did, please let us get on with dealing with this ourselves now..the net is not the place for possible legal wrangles.

It seems to me, since I'm mostly asking about a MSDS, that they shouldn't fall under a non-disclosure-agreement, since thsy are to be filed with the federal government (OSHA). And as such should be public record. I know of no other MSDS that would fall under an NDA.

The private testing, well we'll just have to wait on.

steve

[SkaGoatMaster]

This is no different then say Ford making a Focus that has unusually sensitive air bag sensors so that just slamming on the brakes can make the bags deploy (it happened, and was an official recall). This type of stuff happens all the time in the automotive industry, but as long as the company is willing to issue a recall it's usually overlooked.

I don't see people jumping all over Dodge for faulty trunk seals in my Neon.... or faulty switches in Volkswagens. They contracted the work out, the contractor didn't do the quality they asked for..... case closed. Pinky is just out to cause trouble, the folks from OCZ did not have to come on here and inform us that they knew of the problem, adn that they were going to fix it.

Thank you for fixing your product so quickly, and u can expect me to be sending mine in for hte recall.

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by SkaGoatMaster
Pinky is just out to cause trouble, the folks from OCZ did not have to come on here and inform us that they knew of the problem, adn that they were going to fix it.

I disagree. OCZ didn't show up until after SSS found the problem. They didn't find it, or if they did, they never informed anyone about it, until SSS published his findings. Then, of course, they show up, defending themselves (rightfully so).

This is nothing like a car recall. Cars are recalled because of problems found after the fact, not because they sell a car, saying it is red, when it is actually blue.

Here's an analogy. Saturn used to make their cars with plastic, dent-resistant side panels. It was a selling point of the cars. If they advertised that the Saturn XYZ had dent-resistant doors, but they were actually made of flimsy aluminum that dented from the slightest touch... that would be similar to this situation.

It is selling something with a label on it that is completely false.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by SkaGoatMaster
Pinky is just out to cause trouble, the folks from OCZ did not have to come on here and inform us that they knew of the problem, adn that they were going to fix it.

Just keeping the facts straight. With so much OCZ pandering going on my conscience wouldn't allow for it.

This company has a VERY sordid history. If we're going to talk about how great they are, then let's show all sides of the coin, shall we? ;)

And, they didn't KNOW of the problem, Sam KNEW of the problem and they're saving face.

Granted, this is not life and death, but it's important enough to take something of a stance on.

Luckily I have plans this evening so after 4:30PM all the OCZ fanboys can take things wherever they wish. Just doing my small and unrewarding job at keeping things even on the playground.

[skou]

Originally posted by Pinky



And, they didn't KNOW of the problem, Sam KNEW of the problem and they're saving face.



Or, at least, we don't think that they knew about the problem. But, I fail to believe that a reputable company, in the USA would be buying a product from a 3rd world communist country, that is cash poor, and not test this product. Especially, if the major advertised component was a metal that is used as currency.

Since I'm a moderator at a motherboard maker's forum, should I be asking if the gold traces on their boards are made of gold? These boards are being made in the same 3rd world communist country.

steve

[SkaGoatMaster]

This is just like a car..

You really think during testing of the cars Ford didn't relize once they slammed on the brakes the air bags deployed on 1 out of 100 cars they tested.... THey are selling a car saying they have safe airbags. or working switches... which obviously is not the case.

It really annoys me when people get on the litigation bandwagon just because they can. It's made our society weak, and no one is willing to admit mistakes because they fear they will get their pants sued off.

sure the company made a mistake. doesn't mean the user has to sue them. It thermal paste for god's sakes, not a seatbelt that's made of paper instead of the advertised nylon. The thermal compound also performed like it was supposed to, which is why it went un-noticed. (my guess anyway)

[Silversinksam]

I couldn't ignore the Slashdot folks, so if you want to add a comment there in my 'thread', feel free to do so.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=93931&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=137&mode=thread&cid=8069366

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by SkaGoatMaster
It really annoys me when people get on the litigation bandwagon just because they can. It's made our society weak, and no one is willing to admit mistakes because they fear they will get their pants sued off.

sure the company made a mistake. doesn't mean the user has to sue them.

I don't think anyone in this thread is talking about suing, at all.

They seem to be talking about finding out the truth, publishing the truth, and holding people/companies responsible.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by cmcquistion




They seem to be talking about finding out the truth, publishing the truth, and holding people/companies responsible.

That's my position ;)

[@md0Cer]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


OCZ fixed the problem without entering into any litigation, and they deserve my absolute praise for their quick action. Compusa apparently does not care that they have a misrepresented product on their store shelves. But I am not done with them as Part 2 of my article will be out Monday.

Yes, and seeing what OCZ gives you is truely amazing, what is it like a choice between a heatsink and a tube of AS as a replacement and you get a T shirt and 10 dollars off ram or something? Well whatever it is I am impressed, OCZ won me over by the performance of the Ultra 2 silver compound, now the way they are dealing with this problem, they deserve a :thup: . Most companies try to cover it up, like what compusa is doing, but man, I love good companies. Well, that does not make sense becuase I like Ford..................

EDIT: ok maybe im thinking differently about ford now that I heard that airbag thing......... sorry for the threadjack.
Anyways, with the silver compound,
Mine must have had silver in it becuase it performs pretty well. AMD 1700 at 2.45Ghz on 1.8Vcore, and around 120 watts of heat, I have a cheapo volcano 9 and I am getting 43C load while folding -advmethods -forceSSE

Works nice with my 9000 Pro too.

[DayUSeX]

i for one am very glad for the article and its good to see OCZ being true to their words, still thats messed up, and its going to take alot more for me to get their trust back, wouldnt it be funny if their shirts were mislabled cotten as well?!?!

[coin]

People seem to be taking delight in bashing OCZ for not declaring/spotting this earlier but you have missed two important facts. The original batch and a subsequent did meet the original standards and periodic testing is just that, periodic. If the standards changed before the next tests then OCZ would not have known.
SSS tested the products, they didn't contain what they claimed, OCZ were informed and have responded positively.
It is wasteful for a company to constantly test products. It seems to also be the opinion that because OCZ have a less than shiny past that they must always be that way. Their memory is a regular top performer and their move into other products, namely the thermal paste has been successful. They have simply been let down by their suppler.
It is also naive to imply that because the product was made by a 'developing' communist country that it is more likely to be fake/ substandard. Plenty of products from developed / democratic countries manufacturers have been fake / substandard as well. A fairly recent one here was Europena toy manufacturers using cheaper lead based paints

[CCW]

I really don't understand you people that are taking a "bash" at OCZ Technology for this. We have all been informed that OCZ Technology does not make the thermal interface material, Ultra II, that it is made for them and re-labelled. There is no evidence at all as far as I can see or as far as I’m aware that contradicts this. If you can find something that proves otherwise, feel free to post it here, I'd like to see it.

It isn't OCZ Technology’s fault entirely. The company they sourced the TIM from is to blame. They wanted to illegitimately make an extra few buck, they are the company that have done wrong. Please give the OCZ guys a break. They spend their free time on here to help you and it is their free time. If you don’t appreciate that then you are very arrogant. Im pleased with the effort they have put in to answering your questions about this issue. You've got to remember they work for a company and they cannot make statements until it has been cleared with their superiors so it is not for you to demand information until they see fit to release it.

By the way, when you return you paste, you can choose some TIM provided to OCZ via Arctic Silver or a Heatsink, a t-shirt and then some money off an EL DCDDR kit. I would be more that satisfied with that if I was returning a tube of this stuff seems very fair to me.

Maybe you should all learn some patience and respect for those who are trying to help you.

Craig

[Kendan]

but to anyone who knows how the blame game works knows to not take things as fact that are not backed up by proof. As for them coming forward and recalling the miss labeled product I commend them but until they put up some proof to back up that they had earlier tests and other verifiable evidence to the fact that they did not know there was no silver in there tubes I will not go blindly believeing them. Sorry but this is not a dissagreement between friends this is a company that I am sure is trying make as much money as possible. I am not saying that they have dropped to the level of cheating there customers but instead that where there is an opportunity to increase the bottom line there is temptation. As for who is actually to blame it is OCZ's responsibility to make sure they are not cheating the public. As such they have taken the first step by recalling the product. Now for the next step which is proving that they had no knowledge of the fact that they were selling a lie to there customers. For this I have the patience to wait for that proof. But while I wait I refuse to buy anything from OCZ. As I feel that if they did have knowledge then I do not think that this publicity should make them more money. I patiently await OCZ to release proof that they were the ones that were cheated.

[L337 M33P]

Somebody by the name of Imabiggles did a test on some Ultra II he got somewhere. He found silver in the paste, and he knows his analytical chemistry ;)

[Kendan]

Originally posted by L337 M33P
Somebody by the name of Imabiggles did a test on some Ultra II he got somewhere. He found silver in the paste, and he knows his analytical chemistry ;)

Well unless Imabiggles is a rep for OCZ then it really does not matter. ;)

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Kendan


Well unless Imabiggles is a rep for OCZ then it really does not matter. ;)

I don't think he is, because OCZ has no need to cover anything up at this point, they acted swiftly as I have mentioned over and over again. I have offered to buy Imabiggles tube and I will make him a new offer for it. If what he says is true, then that tube will be further fodder for OCZ in their qwest to go after their supplier.




Originally posted by coin
People seem to be taking delight in bashing OCZ for not declaring/spotting this earlier but you have missed two important facts. The original batch and a subsequent did meet the original standards and periodic testing is just that, periodic. If the standards changed before the next tests then OCZ would not have known.
SSS tested the products, they didn't contain what they claimed, OCZ were informed and have responded positively.
It is wasteful for a company to constantly test products. It seems to also be the opinion that because OCZ have a less than shiny past that they must always be that way. Their memory is a regular top performer and their move into other products, namely the thermal paste has been successful. They have simply been let down by their suppler.
It is also naive to imply that because the product was made by a 'developing' communist country that it is more likely to be fake/ substandard. Plenty of products from developed / democratic countries manufacturers have been fake / substandard as well. A fairly recent one here was Europena toy manufacturers using cheaper lead based paints

I agree with everything stated above :)

[skou]

Thread-jack in progress.

Just out of curiosity, why does CCW have so many links in his Sig? I thought that was for senior members or higher.

We now return you to your current thread. :D

steve

[CCW]

Originally posted by skou


Just out of curiosity, why does CCW have so many links in his Sig?

I PMed a member of staff, he said it was fine.

[Kendan]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


I don't think he is, because OCZ has no need to cover anything up at this point, they acted swiftly as I have mentioned over and over again. I have offered to buy Imabiggles tube and I will make him a new offer for it. If what he says is true, then that tube will be further fodder for OCZ in their qwest to go after their supplier.







My point was only that the comment did not come from OCZ.

[ZGOZZ]

I used the compusa grease.
Is this going to be a issue for my chip down the road?

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by ZGOZZ
I used the compusa grease.
Is this going to be a issue for my chip down the road?

Probably not. It just means that you may not have gotten exactly what you paid for.

In reality, the temperature difference is only a few degrees between different kinds of heatsink compounds.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


Probably not. It just means that you may not have gotten exactly what you paid for.

In reality, the temperature difference is only a few degrees between different kinds of heatsink compounds.

That is exactly what I was going to say. Aluminum Oxide in a silicone base is not detrimental, but it is not what is listed on the package, and is NOT what was written on thier website.

Compusa:
http://www.compusa.com/products/pro...&pfp=SEARCH

2 pack; 97% pure micronized silver
75-80% silver content by weight
Thermal conductivity 8.2 w/m degrees Kelvin
External Temp. Limits; -60 degrees to 170 degrees

[9mmCensor]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


That is exactly what I was going to say. Aluminum Oxide in a silicone base is not detrimental, but it is not what is listed on the package, and is NOT what was written on thier website.

Compusa:
http://www.compusa.com/products/pro...&pfp=SEARCH

2 pack; 97% pure micronized silver
75-80% silver content by weight
Thermal conductivity 8.2 w/m degrees Kelvin
External Temp. Limits; -60 degrees to 170 degrees

That link is busted

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=288619&pfp=BROWSE
This?

[@md0Cer]

Originally posted by coin
People seem to be taking delight in bashing OCZ for not declaring/spotting this earlier but you have missed two important facts. The original batch and a subsequent did meet the original standards and periodic testing is just that, periodic. If the standards changed before the next tests then OCZ would not have known.
SSS tested the products, they didn't contain what they claimed, OCZ were informed and have responded positively.
It is wasteful for a company to constantly test products. It seems to also be the opinion that because OCZ have a less than shiny past that they must always be that way. Their memory is a regular top performer and their move into other products, namely the thermal paste has been successful. They have simply been let down by their suppler.
It is also naive to imply that because the product was made by a 'developing' communist country that it is more likely to be fake/ substandard. Plenty of products from developed / democratic countries manufacturers have been fake / substandard as well. A fairly recent one here was Europena toy manufacturers using cheaper lead based paints


Originally posted by CCW


I really don't understand you people that are taking a "bash" at OCZ Technology for this. We have all been informed that OCZ Technology does not make the thermal interface material, Ultra II, that it is made for them and re-labelled. There is no evidence at all as far as I can see or as far as I’m aware that contradicts this. If you can find something that proves otherwise, feel free to post it here, I'd like to see it.

It isn't OCZ Technology’s fault entirely. The company they sourced the TIM from is to blame. They wanted to illegitimately make an extra few buck, they are the company that have done wrong. Please give the OCZ guys a break. They spend their free time on here to help you and it is their free time. If you don’t appreciate that then you are very arrogant. Im pleased with the effort they have put in to answering your questions about this issue. You've got to remember they work for a company and they cannot make statements until it has been cleared with their superiors so it is not for you to demand information until they see fit to release it.

By the way, when you return you paste, you can choose some TIM provided to OCZ via Arctic Silver or a Heatsink, a t-shirt and then some money off an EL DCDDR kit. I would be more that satisfied with that if I was returning a tube of this stuff seems very fair to me.

Maybe you should all learn some patience and respect for those who are trying to help you.

Craig



Both well said, I could not have said it any better.

-0cer

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


Probably not. It just means that you may not have gotten exactly what you paid for.

In reality, the temperature difference is only a few degrees between different kinds of heatsink compounds.

So I got screwed out of money when I could of got the beter brand for the same price?:mad:

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by 9mmCensor


That link is busted

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=288619&pfp=BROWSE
This?

Thank you both.
I wounder what else is not 100% true at CompUsa too?
It makes you wonder.

[9mmCensor]

I smell a class action suit, against COMPusa.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by 9mmCensor
I smell a class action suit, against COMPusa.

I'm willing to file with my attorney general, but I'm awaiting "orders" so-to-speak before I do so. Compusa still has time to make an about-face...

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by ZGOZZ

So I got screwed out of money when I could of got the beter brand for the same price?:mad:

Yep.

Originally posted by ZGOZZ

I wounder what else is not 100% true at CompUsa too?


Everything.

In my experience, CompUSA has the least knowledgable, least helpful, and least professional employees of any Computer store I've ever been in... anywhere... ever...

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


Yep.



Everything.

In my experience, CompUSA has the least knowledgable, least helpful, and least professional employees of any Computer store I've ever been in... anywhere... ever...

I would agree 100%.
I really think Compusa has to change that. They need good people but they pay like crap.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


Yep.



Everything.

In my experience, CompUSA has the least knowledgable, least helpful, and least professional employees of any Computer store I've ever been in... anywhere... ever...

Part 2 of my article will be out Monday, I am mailing a notorized copy of the findings to Compusa's CEO.

If he, or his legal team does nothing I will do something.

[skou]

Now, this just might be the company to start a fight with. Who's going to cry if they go bye-bye? They'd be replaced with a better company.

OCZ, on the other hand, at least tries to cater to us Overclockers!

Sic'em Sam!

steve

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by skou
Now, this just might be the company to start a fight with. Who's going to cry if they go bye-bye? They'd be replaced with a better company.

OCZ, on the other hand, at least tries to cater to us Overclockers!

Sic'em Sam!

steve

My All Seeing Avatar told me I need to take a closer look at THIS (http://dynexproducts.com/products/components/) (Scroll to bottom)

http://dynexproducts.com/newspics/ix_photo_5909984.jpg


I tested a sample today and it came up negative for Silver (may need to have this sent to the Laboratory)

[skou]

Sam, it is 2 AM in Az right now, don't you ever go to bed? :D :eek: :D

As always, keep up the good work!!

steve

[9mmCensor]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


My All Seeing Avatar told me I need to take a closer look at THIS (http://dynexproducts.com/products/components/) (Scroll to bottom)

http://dynexproducts.com/newspics/ix_photo_5909984.jpg


I tested a sample today and it came up negative for Silver (may need to have this sent to the Laboratory)

Tip off...
Lotsa of packaging, and cheap price.

Exec1: Lets skimp on the packaging to increase profits.
Exec2: Naw, lets skimp on the silver, they'll never know.
Exec1: Good idea, the flash packaging and 'claims' of silver will get them to buy it.
Exec's 1&2: :evil laughter: :run's to bank with sacks full of money:
SSS: Not so fast there. :dun dun da dun - music of hero guy:

(Sorry if this isn't funny, its 4:20AM here- but I cant sleep)

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by skou
Sam, it is 2 AM in Az right now, don't you ever go to bed? :D :eek: :D

As always, keep up the good work!!

steve

When I start something I see it through to the end, then I can sleep.




Originally posted by 9mmCensor


Tip off...
Lotsa of packaging, and cheap price.

Exec1: Lets skimp on the packaging to increase profits.
Exec2: Naw, lets skimp on the silver, they'll never know.
Exec1: Good idea, the flash packaging and 'claims' of silver will get them to buy it.
Exec's 1&2: :evil laughter: :run's to bank with sacks full of money:
SSS: Not so fast there. :dun dun da dun - music of hero guy:

(Sorry if this isn't funny, its 4:20AM here- but I cant sleep)


It's funny, but not if your in my crosshairs as Compusa is, and possibly Dynex in the not to distant future. :eek:

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by Pinky


I'm willing to file with my attorney general, but I'm awaiting "orders" so-to-speak before I do so. Compusa still has time to make an about-face...

If you do lets, us know. I would love to help anyway I can.
I am not happy about this. Rather feel mislead big time.
:mad:

[Matt761]

The storys made its way onto xbit labs
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20040125073138.html

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Matt761
The storys made its way onto xbit labs
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/20040125073138.html

Part 2 that I just finished writing an hour ago will be interesting, I hope you all enjoy the Lab reports and other info and pictures.

Part 2 of my article will be out Monday, stay tuned.

[Sony]

Part 2 is out, good read very interesting.

Linky (http://www.overclockers.com/articles938/index02.asp)

[Richard]

Nice work, SSS.

I'll bet the guys at Arctic Silver are pretty happy with your article. :) Nothing like a weak man (OCZ / CompUSA) to make you (AS) stronger.

[9mmCensor]

Originally posted by Richard
Nice work, SSS.

I'll bet the guys at Arctic Silver are pretty happy with your article. :) Nothing like a weak man (OCZ / CompUSA) to make you (AS) stronger.

Also AS is esp happy because OCZ is now going to get AS to make their TIM for them.

As they say in sailing, "The ball is know in "CompUSA's" court".

Great article.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Sony
Part 2 is out, good read very interesting.

Linky (http://www.overclockers.com/articles938/index02.asp)

The Inquirer picked it up immediately (They picked up the Xtremesystems version although Joe is running it Simutaneously on the Overclockers.com front page. I like both versions as it reminds me that Compusa is Charging $9.99 for a product that is common run of the mill Silicone thermal paste. Compusa is probably buying it for less than a Dollar and selling it for $10. NICE JOB COMPUSA in hosing the consumer with a 900% profit on a MNISREPRESENTED PRODUCT. :mad:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=13815

[filip04]

i smell a part3 coming out soon... keep us updated...

[skou]

I can hear it now, "we can hardly expect to believe the lab reports that Sam has provided, since he PAID the lab."

Sam, you did it again! OCZ, you did the right thing! CompUSA, you'll never see another dime of mine. Admit the truth.

I wonder, since the testing has stated that the 2 samples were probably from the same manufacturer, if CompUSA first got the idea to make the fake silver grease, and OCZ just got shipped some of the wrong stuff?

Enough postulating, I'll be back.

steve

[harryinny3]

I bought it saturday, And by chance asked sam if he had any to test. To my surprise he had been sent some. It came up Negative for silver.

The first thing that tipped me off about it was the Tube. It looks Exactly like the OCZ tube, and the contents look exactly like the OCZ and Compusa sample. So i took out what tiny amount of AS i had left and compared them in color. Something smelled funny right off the bat.

What ****es me off so much about the dynex, is. I Made it a point to ask the TECH at bestbuy if indeed this product contained silver, He said it definately did. I went on to tell him that i Found an article that Found that The compusa and OCZ compounds infact did NOT contain silver, but Aluminum. He still assured me that the dynex had silver in it.

Im not a happy camper, #1 i paid $7.99 for this junk, #2 This is just another case of a company trying to make More money while shortchanging there customers. Bestbuy is A Much larger chain of stores that compusa, I would be Seriousely looking into this, Now i have to drive my crippled butt back to bestbuy to get my money back. When all along i could have just bought the AS product.(slaps self in the head) DOH!

Whats worse is, I has to order some AS, While alot cheaper, The shipping killed me. Now it came to $10.50 to get a REAL product. $3.99 + $4 shipping, + $2.99 rush order. Grrrrrr. Money i didnt really have, But thanks to bestbuy, I had to spend it anyway.

Sorry for edit #3, But i forgot to thank Sam for all his work. He might have just saved me a dead Vid card and new Proggy. Thank you Sam.
Harry

[Crash893]

Great artical sss


i do have one small problem with it

why do you praise ocz for pulling there crappy product i dont think they just found out they had to have known and were trying to bambosal everyone

it would be like if i tried to pay you with a fake 20 and you said thats a fake 20 and i paid you for real and then you thanked me for my reall 20.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by Crash893
it would be like if i tried to pay you with a fake 20 and you said thats a fake 20 and i paid you for real and then you thanked me for my reall 20.

Well put.

Sam, I need to say that the attitudes expressed by certain parties and xtreme places around the world :rolleyes: have conflicted with the spirit of the initial inquiry.

We're out to keep the businesses in check through minor victories for the little guys, right? We need to keep what crash said in mind when dealing with companies, especially ones with a history of lies that benefit from continuing to lie (to tell the truth in this case would cost them customers, but I think the PR thing's been well explained already, eh? wouldn't want my front page discussion access to be masked :rolleyes: ).

[cmcquistion]

Be patient folks.

SSS isn't finished, yet;)

[hkgonra]

Is it just me or is SSS our own personal consumer watchdog ? :D

Good Job sam.

[CCW]

Originally posted by Pinky

Sam, I need to say that the attitudes expressed by certain parties and xtreme places around the world

Well, what can you expect when you were being very Edited by sss Please curtail the flaming at XS.

Second part of Sam's article is excellent, can be found HERE (http://www.xtremesystems.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=410&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)

Craig

[Sniperboy]

Folks, I wouldn't go burning your local CompUSA to the ground just yet. They are a large corporation, which means that they are horribly slow and inefficient. :D I'd say, after another week or two of no response, then they would be ignoring SSS.

However, I have an idea to get CompUSA's attention. We could all print out SSS's article and lab report and give it to the manager of our local CompUSA.

I'm just throwing this out; tell me if you like it.:)

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by CCW


Well, what can you expect when you were being very Edited by sss Please curtail the flaming at XS.

Second part of Sam's article is excellent, can be found HERE (http://www.xtremesystems.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=410&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)

Craig

This is flaming and won't be tolerated in our forum. Please edit your post.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


This is flaming and won't be tolerated in our forum. Please edit your post.

That's okay, just an example of his caliber...

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by Pinky


That's okay, just an example of his caliber...

Careful, Pinky. Flaming back at him isn't helping. Let's all keep this a civilized discussion and not a flame-fest.

[CCW]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


This is flaming and won't be tolerated in our forum. Please edit your post.

His forum name at XS is stoopid, it is in my opinion a play on words, not intended as a flame and it is not a flame. I won't edit it, if the forum staff feels it needs to be edited I will not object at all, they are welcome to edit it.

Craig

[Pinky]

CMC, If I direct this post at you am I flaming you too?

Sorry mods, I realize all of this will need to be tidied up later on...

Poor example of senior behavior here, but hell I'm human too...

[skou]

I was just getting ready to ask, "isn't Pinky's nickname at XS stoopid?"

steve

[CCW]

Originally posted by skou
I was just getting ready to ask, "isn't Pinky's nickname at XS stoopid?"

steve

;)

Hes now been masked from seeing certain parts of the forum due to his poor behaviour. Give a person Senior Member at one forum and he will think he can do whatever he wants at all forums.

*Sigh*

[hkgonra]

Originally posted by skou
I was just getting ready to ask, "isn't Pinky's nickname at XS stoopid?"

steve


Wasn't that his name here as well for a little while ?

[Burning Phoenix]

I doubt it can be proven that OCZ knew what they were selling if they did at all. I personally don't think they knew.
What matters to me is the quick response from them to make things right. They could of easily ignored the incident and hoped for the best. Instead they offered an exchange +$10 rebate + T-shirt. What do you want? Blood?

[Kendan]

NO, what we want is for them to show the previous lab tests and the other documents that state that they originally and continued to order the stuff with silver in it. I am not sorry for saying that I will not be spending a dime for OCZ stuff untill I see these things.

[Crash893]

i would however give them propes if they did a full refund on all the crap they sold? that to me would make things right with the world

[CCW]

Originally posted by Crash893
i would however give them propes if they did a full refund on all the crap they sold? that to me would make things right with the world

Replacing it is good enough, they are replacing it with Arctic Silver. A replacement (or OCZ heatsink), $10 off EL DDR kit and T-shirt not good enough for you?

Craig

[NicePants42]

Originally posted by Crash893
i would however give them propes if they did a full refund on all the crap they sold?

Last time I checked, that was pretty much what a recall was...

Just send in the old tube and get a tube of arctic silver, free t-shirt, and $10 off RAM. I think the old tube could even be empty.

Do you want them to pull all the sales receipts complete with names and addresses of people who've bought the stuff and send them all a check? I think they're being more than reasonable.

[Kendan]

Originally posted by Crash893
i would however give them propes if they did a full refund on all the crap they sold? that to me would make things right with the world


What is this propes you talk about? :p

As for everything being all right with the world, I do not think it has been that way the whole time I have been alive! I just want to see the proof that backs up there claims.

[Crash893]

well i ment them andddddd compusa

but i think well all be in the dirt before compusa says they are sorry and replaces all the crap tubes they sold

[Kendan]

I almost forgot about Compusa. I am content to wait until SSS's letter gets there and they respond to it.

[harryinny3]

Is going to do.

They replied to me saying," sorry your dissapointed with your recent purchase" And that the complaint is being forewarded to the proper department.

Prolly gonna sue, But they cant get blood from a stone. Ha!


Harry

[9mmCensor]

Taken from:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=410&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
Manufacturer's official comments of the article - OCZ Technology: None as of January 26, 2004
Manufacturer's official comments of the article - CompUSA: None as of January 26, 2004

Didn't OCZ issue a recall, which would therefore be a "Official Comment"?

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by 9mmCensor
Taken from:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=410&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0


Didn't OCZ issue a recall, which would therefore be a "Official Comment"?

I guess he's referring to the actual manufacturer of the paste, since OCZ doesn't make it, in-house.

[Kendan]

Originally posted by 9mmCensor
Taken from:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=410&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0


Didn't OCZ issue a recall, which would therefore be a "Official Comment"?

This is just the second article which came out today. which is in two places OC and extreme. OCZ has already responded to the first article.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by 9mmCensor
Taken from:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=410&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0


Didn't OCZ issue a recall, which would therefore be a "Official Comment"?

I agree (a total recall is better than any further response they could make at this point), perhaps they just haven't got around to editting that with a link.

[cV]

Yeah, let's hope Compusa is as yielding as OCZ.

I'm interested in where this heads.

[9mmCensor]

Two threads for this is silly. Can we make it into one? (Or close one?)

[9mmCensor]

Looking into CompUSA... was hoping to see that they are a listed company, cause I wanted to see if they took a hit on the market... but no they are private...
Link (http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/15/15490.html)

Also it looks like they haven't been doing as well, as in the past.
link (http://www.hoovers.com/compusa/--ID__15490--/free-co-fin-factsheet.xhtml)

[Crash893]

what the hell does "CompUSA is owned by Mexican holding company U.S. Commercial. "

mean

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Crash893
what the hell does "CompUSA is owned by Mexican holding company U.S. Commercial. "

mean

When I was looking up the CEO information I noticed this info as well. "CompUSA, founded as Soft Warehouse in Dallas, Texas, in October 1984, originally sold "direct" to business customers. The company then opened its first retail store in April 1985; opened its first Computer Superstore in April 1988; changed its name to CompUSA in March 1991 and, in September 1998, CompUSA completed its acquisition of the Computer City chain from Tandy Corporation. In March 2000 CompUSA became a privately held company, under the new leadership of Mexican retail company, Grupo Sanborns."

what your asking just shows that the company is owned by a Corporation stemming out of Mexico and they own American interests.

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by Crash893
what the hell does "CompUSA is owned by Mexican holding company U.S. Commercial. "

mean

I think it means that "U.S. Commercial" is the name of the Mexican company, which owns CompUSA.

[9mmCensor]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


I think it means that "U.S. Commercial" is the name of the Mexican company, which owns CompUSA.

Yeah thats what I was thinking.

hummm seems that US. Comercial is a Corprations...

owned by Carlos Slim, Latin America's richest man.
http://www.ajc.com/wednesday/content/epaper/editions/wednesday/business_f32ff564b3ac625a0095.html

The plot thickens....
Carlos Slim has lots of money...
Check this out...
http://biz.yahoo.com/t/52/513.html
4,168,251 of Altria Group Inc -
"Altria Group, Inc., formerly Philip Morris Companies Inc., is a holding company and the parent company of wholly owned subsidiaries Philip Morris USA Inc. (PM USA), Philip Morris International Inc. (PMI) and a majority-owned (84.2%) subsidiary, Kraft Foods Inc. (Kraft)."

4.1 Million shares @ 54.80 = 224,680,000... And thats just one of the companies Carlos owns...

SOOO... you would think he'd be able to afford putting a bit of silver in some goop he sells for $10, eh?
:mad:

[Crash893]

dont get me wrong i dont have to much agenst mexico

but you would think that compUSA would be an american biz

well i guess that puts another wrench in my plans to buy anything from them

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Crash893
dont get me wrong i dont have to much agenst mexico

but you would think that compUSA would be an american biz

well i guess that puts another wrench in my plans to buy anything from them

I have no issues with Mexican corporations or any Foreign corporations, I do have issues with Compusa for misrepresenting an item that has no silver in it and it says it does.

They probably buy these tubes for under a Dollar and sell it for $9.99, thats almost a 900% profit. That I have an issue with :eek:

[hkgonra]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


They probably buy these tubes for under a Dollar and sell it for $9.99, thats almost a 900% profit. That I have an issue with :eek:

Lots of places do that ..... ever bought a printer cable or usb cable at Best Buy ?

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by hkgonra


Lots of places do that ..... ever bought a printer cable or usb cable at Best Buy ?

True, but if the you need a USB cable and the box says its a USB cable, you buy it and when you get home and discover its a seriel port cable instead, this would be annoying and an inconvience :rolleyes:

[hkgonra]

Agreed. :)

[skou]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


They probably buy these tubes for under a Dollar and sell it for $9.99, thats almost a 900% profit. That I have an issue with :eek:

I don't really have any problem with that, it's when they say that it has a certain amount of a precious metal, and it doesn't.

Markup, even outrageous markup, is just good business. But stealing the public's money through deceptive advertising, is criminal.

steve

[silversinkbam]

The fact that Neiother of these comapnies have done this testing on their own seems to to be a bit suspisous (sp) if it was me and i sold this I WOULD do some testing on it every so often to make sure that i am giving the consumers the right murchandice(sp). If i bought it from a different source like OCZ "claims" they do then why would they take the word of that comapny? i sure wouldnt...like i said i would do some spot checks on the products comming off the line to make sure it is what the packaging claims to be.

[Falcon-K]

Originally posted by ArmyMech
The fact that Neiother of these comapnies have done this testing on their own seems to to be a bit suspisous (sp) if it was me and i sold this I WOULD do some testing on it every so often to make sure that i am giving the consumers the right murchandice(sp). If i bought it from a different source like OCZ "claims" they do then why would they take the word of that comapny? i sure wouldnt...like i said i would do some spot checks on the products comming off the line to make sure it is what the packaging claims to be.


OCZ said that it did do periodic testing, they did an initial testing of it and then said to do periodic testing, so yeah they did everything, it was said many posts ago.:rolleyes:

[skou]

Sam, I gotta ask, what possessed you to even do the original test? Just because your sister had the supplies? Or, did you have a hunch?

Just curious.

steve

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by skou
Sam, I gotta ask, what possessed you to even do the original test? Just because your sister had the supplies? Or, did you have a hunch?

Just curious.

steve

I mentioned this in the part 2 article. The Compusa silver grease and the OCZ silver compound were to perfect in its silver color and I became suspicious that the color had been manipulated or fabricated, and I was right.

Heres what I wrote in the article,

I looked at the Arctic Silver products and they seemed to be a light grey to almost silver color (Arctic Silver II and Arctic Silver adhesive was the most silver in color amongst the Arctic Silver products I had). I couldn’t help noticing that the CompUSA and the OCZ Ultra II Premium Silver Compound was extremely silver in color. It was perfect in its silver color - too perfect! When one is in the market to buy a Diamond and you find a stone that is perfect upon inspection, it’s either very, very expensive or it could be a Cubic Zirconium.

When I get some time I will polish a silver .999 bar and place a drop of both Compusa's paste and Ultra II on the polished bar.

[skou]

Makes sense to me. :D

steve

[Voodoo Rufus]

I've been watching and reading all this up to now, and I think Sam's done a good job.

It's unfortunate to see companies taking advantage of other companies by not producing what OCZ is paying for. They had a good response to the problem as well. Sellers shouldn't have to periodically test stuff to make sure the producers are giving them what they want, because it costs money.

As for CompUSA, heh, hopefully they come around and acknowledge it. Maybe they're too busy making money to bother with thermal grease.

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


I mentioned this in the part 2 article. The Compusa silver grease and the OCZ silver compound were to perfect in its silver color and I became suspicious that the color had been manipulated or fabricated, and I was right.

Heres what I wrote in the article,

I looked at the Arctic Silver products and they seemed to be a light grey to almost silver color (Arctic Silver II and Arctic Silver adhesive was the most silver in color amongst the Arctic Silver products I had). I couldn’t help noticing that the CompUSA and the OCZ Ultra II Premium Silver Compound was extremely silver in color. It was perfect in its silver color - too perfect! When one is in the market to buy a Diamond and you find a stone that is perfect upon inspection, it’s either very, very expensive or it could be a Cubic Zirconium.

When I get some time I will polish a silver .999 bar and place a drop of both Compusa's paste and Ultra II on the polished bar.

I called CompUSA and gave them a riot act.
They said they get it from FMI and FMI is responsible for the content of the product.
So he goes the passing the buck.

[Pinky]

Originally posted by ZGOZZ
They said they get it from FMI and FMI is responsible for the content of the product.

Let them tell your attorney general that! :p

[Kendan]

Originally posted by Falcon-K



OCZ said that it did do periodic testing, they did an initial testing of it and then said to do periodic testing, so yeah they did everything, it was said many posts ago.:rolleyes:


It was stated but never backed up :eek:


I am still waiting for the documents to be posted that back up there claims.

[Krusty]

Wow, I guess I should check the front page discussions more often. After reading Sams first article, I wasn't particularly moved by it because I had heard before that products that claim to be silver really contain some sort of silver oxide. It wasn't until reading his follow-up article today that I just had to hop in here and say something in this 6 page long thread that I read every word of. Seriously folks, stop talking so much!

Anyways, I just wanted to hop in and congratulate Sam for his tireless work towards truth, justice, and the overclocking way. It really is unbelievably impressive that one man could make a simple observation, conduct some tests, and completely turn a product market upside-down.

I do commend OCZ for acknowledging the issue, but, as stated by other people in this thread, they are still in trouble for having a false product to start. I personally wouldn't trust them until they can prove that they checked to ensure the product they were selling was legitimate.

The big victory, however, won't come from proving OCZ had a bad product. The victory will come from the large distributors that are selling the exact same product. The big victory will come in tracing this product back to the manufacturer and shutting them down. Though some blame can be placed on the distributors for selling a product that they may have not thoroughly tested, it seems that the true root of evil is in the one (or more) company that is cutting massive corners in the manufacturing of this product. Once the big companies (CompUSA, Best Buy) officially catch wind of this, there may be enough pull on our side to shut the offending manufacturer down.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Krusty
Wow, I guess I should check the front page discussions more often. After reading Sams first article, I wasn't particularly moved by it because I had heard before that products that claim to be silver really contain some sort of silver oxide. It wasn't until reading his follow-up article today that I just had to hop in here and say something in this 6 page long thread that I read every word of. Seriously folks, stop talking so much!

Anyways, I just wanted to hop in and congratulate Sam for his tireless work towards truth, justice, and the overclocking way. It really is unbelievably impressive that one man could make a simple observation, conduct some tests, and completely turn a product market upside-down.

I do commend OCZ for acknowledging the issue, but, as stated by other people in this thread, they are still in trouble for having a false product to start. I personally wouldn't trust them until they can prove that they checked to ensure the product they were selling was legitimate.

The big victory, however, won't come from proving OCZ had a bad product. The victory will come from the large distributors that are selling the exact same product. The big victory will come in tracing this product back to the manufacturer and shutting them down. Though some blame can be placed on the distributors for selling a product that they may have not thoroughly tested, it seems that the true root of evil is in the one (or more) company that is cutting massive corners in the manufacturing of this product. Once the big companies (CompUSA, Best Buy) officially catch wind of this, there may be enough pull on our side to shut the offending manufacturer down.




Thanks for the kudos :)

Larry Mondry, Chief Executive Officer, COMPUSA was sent a Notarized copy of my findings and it was sent to HIM directly via Certified Express mail this Afternoon.

[Mr B]

Originally posted by Silversinksam
Larry Mondry, Chief Executive Officer, COMPUSA was sent a Notarized copy of my findings and it was sent to HIM directly via Certified Express mail this Afternoon.

SilversinkSam = "The People's Champ" :D

[ZGOZZ]

Lets go get CompUsa.
:mad:

[silversinkbam]

the fact of the matter is IF they were really testing the product then they would have known way before this thatthere was no silver in "their" product. i mean come one im sure sam can attest that these big companies can afford a little solution for silver testing...im sure it isnt going to break them to test at least 1-2 batches a month...i mean come on sam used 1 drop of the stuff and it was negative for silver......they get a bottle im sure that bottle would last them a good while...the facts are all there and they are that the "SELLERS" of this product couldnt care less if the product contained real silver or not....WELL let me rephrase that.....they couldnt care less UNTIL they get caught with their pants down..which is what sam has done.....they knew there was NO silver present in their product but yet they decided to do nothing about it...but now thaqt some one has "caught" them they are doing a complete and total back track to "do right" as it were in the community.....KUDOS sam for doing this test and showing these companies that the consumer is still being looked after by good guys like you.....

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by ArmyMech
the fact of the matter is IF they were really testing the product then they would have known way before this thatthere was no silver in "their" product. i mean come one im sure sam can attest that these big companies can afford a little solution for silver testing...im sure it isnt going to break them to test at least 1-2 batches a month...i mean come on sam used 1 drop of the stuff and it was negative for silver......they get a bottle im sure that bottle would last them a good while...the facts are all there and they are that the "SELLERS" of this product couldnt care less if the product contained real silver or not....WELL let me rephrase that.....they couldnt care less UNTIL they get caught with their pants down..which is what sam has done.....they knew there was NO silver present in their product but yet they decided to do nothing about it...but now thaqt some one has "caught" them they are doing a complete and total back track to "do right" as it were in the community.....KUDOS sam for doing this test and showing these companies that the consumer is still being looked after by good guys like you.....

But the thing is... you could say the same thing about every single other item compUSA sells. It's easy for us to say they should have tested it now that we know it was wrong, but they can't go around opening all of their products and testing each one to make sure the packaging is correct.

[silversinkbam]

see your reading into my post i didnt say go into every one of them im saying take 1 tube from a batch they recieve and test it....that not to hard to do...

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by squeakygeek


But the thing is... you could say the same thing about every single other item compUSA sells. It's easy for us to say they should have tested it now that we know it was wrong, but they can't go around opening all of their products and testing each one to make sure the packaging is correct.

Actually there are controls in place for 'other items' like electronics for example, these controls are there so that the consumer is protected, like Underwriters Laboratories. (http://www.ul.com/) These controls are there for your protection. If a product is not as described such as a thermal paste, and the MSDS is misrepresented/Altered, then the offender could face Federal and State action, including but not limited to Incarceration and/or fines.

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by ArmyMech
see your reading into my post i didnt say go into every one of them im saying take 1 tube from a batch they recieve and test it....that not to hard to do...

What I meant was, sure, it's not that hard to do, but why would they test the thermal paste instead of product x? There was no cause for suspicion. There was no reason for them to do it in the first place. After they've been selling it for ahwile, and there haven't been any customer complaints, they aren't just going to say, out of the blue, hmm, I think we should check to see if this thermal paste has silver in it. It would actually be kind of comical if you think about it.

[silversinkbam]

wether there were consumer complaints or not.....MOST people take what they see for the truth......i use AS and only AS becasue a good friend of mine told me that is the only thing to use...i wont mention names but his initials are (SSS)..lmao.

companies like the ones listed are more worried about their bottom line then the actual product they produce (you can say im wrong but we all know its true) its actually not comical its actually tragic that a "consumer" has to point out that there product is crap. not what it is marketed to be and has no traces of the elements it claims to have....

[Pinky]

Originally posted by squeakygeek
What I meant was, sure, it's not that hard to do, but why would they test the thermal paste instead of product x? There was no cause for suspicion. There was no reason for them to do it in the first place. After they've been selling it for ahwile, and there haven't been any customer complaints, they aren't just going to say, out of the blue, hmm, I think we should check to see if this thermal paste has silver in it. It would actually be kind of comical if you think about it.

That's 100% correct. There was no reason to ever test again once the product was initially tested (part of the reason I started to "go off" when I heard they did periodic testing... why would you??). then they tried convincing me they were victims (which they kinda are), but as far as the law sees it, they sold a misrepresented product. What happens now is they pay the price for the other company's mistake, then hire lawyers and sue the other company to recoup their damages from the recall (and backstock).

[cmcquistion]

Two words... QUALITY CONTROL

This is what OCZ should have been practicing and wasn't.

[gamefoo21]

And this is why I buy my thermal transfer grease from a chemical company for dirty cheap. It doesn't look much like silver more like AS5 in terms of the dark grey color. But damn I stuck it under my hsf and it slammed my temps back 5c over insanely well done white stuff. So yeah where do I get that silver testing stuff? I just want to make sure? Why buy silver heat transfer grease when you can buy Silver conductive grease for cheaper.

[rmonster]

Originally posted by Pinky


That's 100% correct. There was no reason to ever test again once the product was initially tested (part of the reason I started to "go off" when I heard they did periodic testing... why would you??). then they tried convincing me they were victims (which they kinda are), but as far as the law sees it, they sold a misrepresented product. What happens now is they pay the price for the other company's mistake, then hire lawyers and sue the other company to recoup their damages from the recall (and backstock).

Not to do this entirely to death, but has anyone yet seen any of OCZ's third party test results? Presenting independent test results from both before and after the article was published could go a long way towards clearing this issue up once and for all.

[Kendan]

Originally posted by rmonster


Not to do this entirely to death, but has anyone yet seen any of OCZ's third party test results? Presenting independent test results from both before and after the article was published could go a long way towards clearing this issue up once and for all.

Nope we are still waiting on the proof that they purchased the grease that contained silver.

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by cmcquistion
Two words... QUALITY CONTROL

This is what OCZ should have been practicing and wasn't.

But the question is, if you were OCZ, would you have thought to test it for silver (assuming there was no suspicion)? OCZ's job is retail, not quality control. Quality control is the responsibility of the manufacturer.

One last thing; quality control is meant to recognise a defective product, not to expose dishonest manufacturing.

edited: grammar/punctuation

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by squeakygeek
But the question is, if you were OCZ, would you have thought to test it for silver (assuming there was no suspicion)? OCZ's job is retail, not quality control. Quality control is the responsibility of the manufacturer.

If I were OCZ, I would have quality control. This means that I would test any product that had my name on it, period. Would I test each and every sample? No. But I would do periodic testing. That is the right thing to do.

Originally posted by squeakygeek
One last thing; quality control is meant to recognise a defective product, not to expose dishonest manufacturing.

The goal of quality control is to maintain QUALITY. This means that you test your product, before it goes out the door. You either test every one or at least test samples, regularly.

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by cmcquistion


If I were OCZ, I would have quality control. This means that I would test any product that had my name on it, period. Would I test each and every sample? No. But I would do periodic testing. That is the right thing to do.



The goal of quality control is to maintain QUALITY. This means that you test your product, before it goes out the door. You either test every one or at least test samples, regularly.

It's easy to say what you might do if you were OCZ, and you may even believe it, but in reality, it is highly doubtful.

You are right about the goal of quality control, but the product already went out the door (of the factory), and was accepted to be up to spec. There was no reason to suspect a defect. From OCZ's statement, it appears that the manufacturer (or a "third party") has done regular quality control testing on the paste. Obviously the tests were lies, but noone suspected this.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by squeakygeek


It's easy to say what you might do if you were OCZ, and you may even believe it, but in reality, it is highly doubtful.

You are right about the goal of quality control, but the product already went out the door (of the factory), and was accepted to be up to spec. There was no reason to suspect a defect. From OCZ's statement, it appears that the manufacturer (or a "third party") has done regular quality control testing on the paste. Obviously the tests were lies, but noone suspected this.

I don't agree with anything you've stated. If the product bears the Companies name it better be as-stated, Non Defective or otherwise.

Period

As far as the testing being lies, that is speculation, and until proof is shown doubt will remain.

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


I don't agree with anything you've stated. If the product bears the Companies name it better be as-stated, Non Defective or otherwise.

Period

As far as the testing being lies, that is speculation, and until proof is shown doubt will remain.

I wasn't refuting that. I totally agree. I didn't mean to imply that what happened was acceptable, what I was trying to say was that I don't think OCZ did anything wrong, and didn't do any less than what any other company (or you or I) would do. If their statement is correct, they did have quality control tests done. I don't see how you can blame them for not actually doing tests of their own when there didn't appear to be a reason for them to do them.

As for the testing being lies, if the tests showed that there was silver, and it was proven that there is no silver, isn't that proof that the tests were lies? The only other possible situation would be that they had been using the correct silver formula, but stopped using silver recently, which I don't think would be possible, because there would be a noticible difference in physical properties such as color.

[Staz]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


True, but if the you need a USB cable and the box says its a USB cable, you buy it and when you get home and discover its a seriel port cable instead, this would be annoying and an inconvience :rolleyes:

Actually that would be bad. I think it is more like needing a USB cable to hook up a printer. Going to CompUSA and picking up a 6' cable at 50% off. Then getting home and finding out that the price wasn't 50% off, the cable was. So now you have payed full price and are stuck with a 3' cable.

Now here comes Silver Sink Sam and points out to OCZ and CompUSA what the problem is.

OCZ takes a little time and does it's own test. They say "My god, you're right! Our supplier has screwed us over, but don't worry. We'll make this right. OK, everybody that got screwed please send us your 3' cable and in return we will send you a 6' cable that you shouyld have gotten origonally. And just so there are no hard feelings we'll let you do some free advertizing for us with a free T-Shirt and give you a cupon so you can buy our RAM which is priced right alongside Corsair RAM. So we're sorry and please buy our RAM and advertise for us."

Just the fact that they are replaceing the thermal grease was good enough. Throwing in the T-Shirt and cupon for the RAM just makes good business sense. Those who bought OCZ thermal grease should be happy with the recall. Those on the sidelines should stop slingong mud and kicking OCZ while it is down. Thier reputation has been tarnished.

But the people that bought the CompUSA grease have a very ligetimate gripe. They have so far ignored the issue completely. After all, How many people tech savy enough to actually read articales on the contents of thermal grease actually buy thermal grease at CompUSA.

Good work SSS and please keep us updated on the CompUSA statement.

[rmonster]

[i]Originally posted by squeakygeek

As for the testing being lies, if the tests showed that there was silver, and it was proven that there is no silver, isn't that proof that the tests were lies? The only other possible situation would be that they had been using the correct silver formula, but stopped using silver recently, which I don't think would be possible, because there would be a noticible difference in physical properties such as color.

I can follow your logic, and it appears to make sense, however, there's always room for doubt. Simply producing the documented test results on OCZ's part would make this all crystal clear.

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by rmonster


I can follow your logic, and it appears to make sense, however, there's always room for doubt. Simply producing the documented test results on OCZ's part would make this all crystal clear.

True, there is always room for doubt, but assuming OCZ is telling the truth is not the same as speculating, which is what SSS said it was.

[rmonster]

Overview for "Speculation"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The noun "speculation" has 4 senses in WordNet.

1. guess, conjecture, supposition, surmise, surmisal, speculation, hypothesis -- (a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence)"

speculation (http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn?stage=1&word=speculation)

I dunno, Sam's choice of wording seemed pretty apt to me. Evidence from OCZ is what we're currently lacking.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by rmonster
[b]

I dunno, Sam's choice of wording seemed pretty apt to me. Evidence from OCZ is what we're currently lacking.

All OCZ would have to do is provide a copy of their old laboratory report and this doubt that many people have would abate.

I really don't understand why they dont show anyone, it would do nothing but help them show the nay sayers that they themselves got duped.

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by rmonster
Overview for "Speculation"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The noun "speculation" has 4 senses in WordNet.

1. guess, conjecture, supposition, surmise, surmisal, speculation, hypothesis -- (a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence)"

speculation (http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn?stage=1&word=speculation)

I dunno, Sam's choice of wording seemed pretty apt to me. Evidence from OCZ is what we're currently lacking.

Speculation is guesswork. My words were far from guesswork.

speculation (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=speculation) conjecture (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=conjecture)

On the other hand, thinking you know the definition of a word based on a list of words from word net is true speculation.... When you want the definition of a word, generally one would use a dictionary.

[skou]

That is kinda showing, they haven't said anything here, since the recall notice. I wonder what's up?

They could be putting out fires, since Sam kicked over the barbecue. (So to speak.) They just might be busy.

I too, am waiting for the old tests, that they said were coming. As well as the MSDS.

Awesome job Sam!!

steve

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


All OCZ would have to do is provide a copy of their old laboratory report and this doubt that many people have would abate.

I really don't understand why they dont show anyone, it would do nothing but help them show the nay sayers that they themselves got duped.

Has anyone specifically asked for this? If so, how long ago?

[rmonster]

Originally posted by squeakygeek


Speculation is guesswork. My words were far from guesswork.



Do you have the lab reports in question from OCZ? If not, then all you can do is guess.

Again, OCZ producing the reports would end all theorizing. What may have happened is of no consequence to me. What did happen is another matter entirely. I don't understand why they haven't produced this yet, but they might have good reasons. A public statement justifying this decision, coupled with a date when such might be provided would be better than remaining silent.

I hold them to no higher standard than I do Sam. He's shown his evidence. What's good for one is good for all, but that's just my opinion.

[rmonster]

Originally posted by squeakygeek


Has anyone specifically asked for this? If so, how long ago?

Yes. Re-read this thread from the beginning, and then check here (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=264186) and here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27280), I'm sure you'll find it requested a time or three ;)

[rmonster]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


All OCZ would have to do is provide a copy of their old laboratory report and this doubt that many people have would abate.

I really don't understand why they dont show anyone, it would do nothing but help them show the nay sayers that they themselves got duped.

I couldn't agree more.

[Silversinksam]

Here's the link to OCZ's new Silver paste (http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/accessories/OCZ_Ultra_5%2B_Silver_Thermal_Compound)

I'm going to get a tube and taste it....uhhm, I mean test it :rolleyes:

[9mmCensor]

Originally posted by Silversinksam
Here's the link to OCZ's new Silver paste (http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/accessories/OCZ_Ultra_5%2B_Silver_Thermal_Compound)

I'm going to get a tube and taste it....uhhm, I mean test it :rolleyes:

Sounds like AS5 too me.

[skou]

One question, does anyone know what Micronized means?

Everybody is advertising "Micronized Silver," but I have no idea what it means.

Sam, I am not really asking you, I wonder if Nevin, Sean or Bigtoe would respond.

steve

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by skou
One question, does anyone know what Micronized means?

Everybody is advertising "Micronized Silver," but I have no idea what it means.

Sam, I am not really asking you, I wonder if Nevin, Sean or Bigtoe would respond.

steve

"To reduce to particles that are only a few microns in diameter."
micronized (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=micronized)

[skou]

Thanks, Squeak!!

That's kinda what I thought.

steve

[rmonster]

Originally posted by 9mmCensor


Sounds like AS5 too me.

Yeppers, I believe you're right.

From OCZ's ad:
"OCZ Ultra 5+ contains over 88% thermally Conductive filler by weight. In addition to micronized silver, Ultra 5+ also contains sub-micron zinc oxide, aluminum oxide and boron nitride particles. These thermally-enhanced ceramic particles improve the compound's performance and long-term stability."

From the ArcticSilver:
"Arctic Silver 5 contains over 88% thermally Conductive filler by weight. In addition to micronized silver, Arctic Silver 5 also contains sub-micron zinc oxide, aluminum oxide and boron nitride particles. These thermally-enhanced ceramic particles improve the compound's performance and long-term stability."

[squeakygeek]

Originally posted by rmonster


Yeppers, I believe you're right.

From OCZ's ad:
"OCZ Ultra 5+ contains over 88% thermally Conductive filler by weight. In addition to micronized silver, Ultra 5+ also contains sub-micron zinc oxide, aluminum oxide and boron nitride particles. These thermally-enhanced ceramic particles improve the compound's performance and long-term stability."

From the ArcticSilver:
"Arctic Silver 5 contains over 88% thermally Conductive filler by weight. In addition to micronized silver, Arctic Silver 5 also contains sub-micron zinc oxide, aluminum oxide and boron nitride particles. These thermally-enhanced ceramic particles improve the compound's performance and long-term stability."

...Now don't succumb to speculation... :p

[rmonster]

Originally posted by squeakygeek


...Now don't succumb to speculation... :p

Heheh! I'll do my best;)

(Btw, I kinda cheated, OCZ made a public statement regarding their deal with AS to use AS5 in their new OCZ branded paste)

[cmcquistion]

OCZ plainly said in their recall notice that they were partnering with AS to provide them with Thermal Paste (for the recall, at least).

It stands to reason that they aren't going to make the mistake of using a shady vendor (for thermal paste) after this situation.

*EDIT* rmonster beat me by a nose:)

[rmonster]

Originally posted by cmcquistion
OCZ plainly said in their recall notice that they were partnering with AS to provide them with Thermal Paste (for the recall, at least).

It stands to reason that they aren't going to make the mistake of using a shady vendor (for thermal paste) after this situation.

Spoilsport! :D

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by cmcquistion
OCZ plainly said in their recall notice that they were partnering with AS to provide them with Thermal Paste (for the recall, at least).

It stands to reason that they aren't going to make the mistake of using a shady vendor (for thermal paste) after this situation.

*EDIT* rmonster beat me by a nose:)

A little more digging brings you to this THREAD (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=1231709&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=) at Anandtech where Nevin, the owner and mad scientist over at Arctic Silver inc. wrote this:

Originally posted by: Nevin

WobbleWobble,

It will be our latest compound, Arctic Silver 5.

Nevin House
Arctic Silver, Inc.

PS I don't know if 'Partnering' is the key phrase, more like providing, but what do I know, I taste Silver pastes :p

[cmcquistion]

Originally posted by Silversinksam
PS I don't know if 'Partnering' is the key phrase, more like providing, but what do I know, I taste Silver pastes :p

Providing is definitely a better description. I was using 'partnering' in the most generic sort of way.

I always hear statements on the news (particularly radio) about how "such-and-such company is 'partnering' with so-and-so" for a new product. I'm sure the true meaning behind the generic words is often more like "such-and-such company was taken over by so-and-so" or "such-and-such company just realized that they can save Billions of dollars by outsourcing their product manufacturing to so-and-so" (who happen to be in another country with a much cheaper source of labor).

I'm going to slap myself, now, for using lame NPR-speak.

[skou]

Originally posted by Silversinksam



PS I don't know if 'Partnering' is the key phrase, more like providing, but what do I know, I taste Silver pastes :p

Sam, you need to be careful, too much ingested silver will turn your skin blue. (Along with all your internal organs.) It will also show up on an X-ray. :D :eek: :D

Just test the stuff, don't taste too much. :D

steve

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by skou


Sam, you need to be careful, too much ingested silver will turn your skin blue. (Along with all your internal organs.) It will also show up on an X-ray. :D :eek: :D

Just test the stuff, don't taste too much. :D

steve

I'm like a wine taster. I swoosh the silver pastes around in my mouth, then spit them out :p

[harryinny3]

MRI! LOL. That could be bad.


BTW, Got my AS Ceram, The other day, It works GREAT! 40C Load on the vid card after 5 hours of CoD Multiplayer. 42C Load or Proggy With new volcano 7+ On Medium Fan speed. WooHoo.
Harry

[rmonster]

*OCZ test results bump*

Is there any chance we'll get to see the independent test results from before and/or after the publication of Sam's article? Sean, Ryan, BigToe, can anyone from OCZ please shed some light on this?

[harryinny3]

I swear its from the same Manufacturer as the OCZ UltraII was from. Same tube, same color, Ect. And NO silver.

Anything more on this deal SSS? I still havent had time to return it, but rest assured they will know when i get there that there junk doesnt have silver in it.


Harry

[9mmCensor]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


I'm like a wine taster. I swoosh the silver pastes around in my mouth, then spit them out :p

I hope you rinse your mouth with water, to get accurate results.

You dont want that silvery taste lingering.

[Voodoo Rufus]

Not sure what the point of seeing the independent test results would be. Sam posted his test reports, OCZ recalled their paste, all that anyone should worry about is what CompUSA and the maker of the paste will do. What's the point of arguing over it still?

[rmonster]

Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
Not sure what the point of seeing the independent test results would be. Sam posted his test reports, OCZ recalled their paste, all that anyone should worry about is what CompUSA and the maker of the paste will do. What's the point of arguing over it still?

My point exactly, the published results would put to rest any doubts on the topic, and end all argument (edit: Where OCZ is concerned, that is :D )

[rmonster]

Update:

Ryan has posted a response regarding lab results at xtreme forums:

Were waiting on approval from our lawyers before we release any more info , about our supplier , test results ect.

I was thinking of leaking the info , but would like to avoid any trouble.


link (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=343263#post343263)

Considering the current situation, this certainly sounds reasonable to me.

[Cuda]

Dang! This is a long thread to read through in one sitting!

Once again SSS proves to be the Ultimate Troll Hunting Mod.

No wonder the front page server is taking such a beating, what with Sams article and the G5 fake mod article both running at the same time.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by Cuda
Dang! This is a long thread to read through in one sitting!

Once again SSS proves to be the Ultimate Troll Hunting Mod.

No wonder the front page server is taking such a beating, what with Sams article and the G5 fake mod article both running at the same time.

Thanks for the kind words. The G5 hoax article decimated my article by a factor of 4 to 1, when its all said and done it will be around 10 to 1, but at least my article was fact and not fiction ;)

PS good thing you picked this thread to read, as the one in Cooling (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=264186) is 6 pages long. I was going to merge the two, but that would be a bit excessive to wade through.

---- Still no word from Compusa, and the clock is ticking and my patience with them will not last forever. The CEO hasn't responded to my notorized letter.

[DaWiper]

Originally posted by Silversinksam



My tests results are accurate and have been confirmed to be accurate. I stand by my conclusions 100%

First, I'm not biased towards any of the products mentioned.

Did you test reliability over time? In other words, do any of the products loose performance over time in a real-life situation?
Maybe it's dumb question, I don't know. But as it seems no one has asked the question. I will....

[Krusty]

Originally posted by Silversinksam
---- Still no word from Compusa, and the clock is ticking and my patience with them will not last forever. The CEO hasn't responded to my notorized letter.

Think it would help much if you gave us a printable copy and we can all go to our neighborhood CompUSAs and ask them to pass the report up in the ranks?

EDIT:

Originally posted by DaWiper


First, I'm not biased towards any of the products mentioned.

Did you test reliability over time? In other words, do any of the products loose performance over time in a real-life situation?
Maybe it's dumb question, I don't know. But as it seems no one has asked the question. I will....

Better read through the thread a bit closer DaWiper. His "test results" do not mention the performance of the product. It is a test that proves there is no silver contained in their product even though they claim to have some 80% silver in the product.

[DaWiper]

I've read the thread.
I might be a bit off topic(sorry!) but....
My point is that you can have 100% silver in the paste for all I care. If the stuff looses performance over time it's no good anyway. Do you buy paste for the amount of silver or the performance?

(edit): Let me add that selling a product that doesn't contain what it's suppose to is a complete rippoff!

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by DaWiper


First, I'm not biased towards any of the products mentioned.

Did you test reliability over time? In other words, do any of the products loose performance over time in a real-life situation?
Maybe it's dumb question, I don't know. But as it seems no one has asked the question. I will....

"I decided to test Arctic Silver 5, Arctic Silver 3, OCZ Ultra II Premium Silver Compound, and CompUSA Silver Thermal Grease. This test was not conducted to test performance, but rather to determine if these compounds have Silver as an ingredient. "

http://www.overclockers.com/articles938/




Originally posted by Krusty


Think it would help much if you gave us a printable copy and we can all go to our neighborhood CompUSAs and ask them to pass the report up in the ranks?



Thats a good suggestion, I'll have to think about that one, in the meantime I will badger the CEO and Compusa's Lawyers. Next step is The State Attorney and a possible class action suit.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by DaWiper
I've read the thread.
I might be a bit off topic(sorry!) but....
My point is that you can have 100% silver in the paste for all I care. If the stuff looses performance over time it's no good anyway. Do you buy paste for the amount of silver or the performance?

you buy the paste for the performance. Most people are under the belief that putting large amounts of micronized silver into a thermal paste improves performance. The thermal paste Sam tested claimed to have large amounts of silver yet were proven to contain none whatsoever.

So silver being known as performance + claiming your product contains lots of silver = promises made about performance that are based on lies.

For an easier to understand example, let's say you go out and buy yourself a new Mazda RX8. A big selling point of this vehicle is that it uses a rotary engine, which is different than the other cars out there. So you buy your RX8 because you think the high rpms of the rotary engine makes the car more efficient, more powerful, more durable, whatever. You take the car home, pop open the hood, and find that it, in fact, has a plain old 6 cylinder engine in it. The engine may have been able to provide enough performance for you not to notice any difference, but it still isn't the engine you were promised.

[DaWiper]

Ok, I give up. My fault.....

[Cuda]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


Thanks for the kind words. The G5 hoax article decimated my article by a factor of 4 to 1, when its all said and done it will be around 10 to 1, but at least my article was fact and not fiction ;)

Just show me the facts ma'am...er Sam.

PS good thing you picked this thread to read, as the one in Cooling (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=264186) is 6 pages long. I was going to merge the two, but that would be a bit excessive to wade through.

Thanks. I think I got all I needed in this thread. It appears that OCZ has done the right thing. Notice I say "appears". I too am a little curious about those first test results, however. It does seem a bit reckless to attach your name to a product that you know is blatently mis-represented, and with pc extremists being a sizable purchaser of OCZ goods, I find it hard to believe they would knowingly do such a thing. The repercussions of such a dastardly act would reverberate throughout the overclocking community long after the dust settled and the chapter 11 was finalized. Actually, I don't believe the loss of the extremist community would drive OCZ into Bankruptcy, but it would certainly sting the bottom line for long time.

---- Still no word from Compusa, and the clock is ticking and my patience with them will not last forever. The CEO hasn't responded to my notorized letter.

I would expect that you will receive no answer. Compusa is a large corporation controlled by non-US interests. An obvious flaw or mis-representation of a single product, especially a product sought after by only a small portion of their customer base, won't deter them them from their primary goal of keeping it in the black, the very, very black. At most, I expect the product to be pulled from the shelves quietly and replaced with some other over-priced, sub-standard product.

[silversinkbam]

ok we all know comp usa wont get off their butts and do anything about this so i was sitting here thinking..OCZ didnt make their thermal paste and has done a recall and has even said it will look into the manufacturer of their thermal paste...SO i was sitting here thinking idont think COMPUSA makes their thermal paste do they? and if the dont make it then why not find out who does make it and go after them? i mean arent they liable for the stuff they manufacture? come on if they are seeling this stuff tocompusa and telling them it contains silver and they provide an MSDS (required AFAIK) for it then that is way wrong...providing a false MSDS is BIG trouble(as stated earlier)...so why not lookon one of those packages of COMPUSA thermal paste and see who actually manufactures it for them.....Maybe the same company OCZ used?

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by ArmyMech
ok we all know comp usa wont get off their butts and do anything about this so i was sitting here thinking..OCZ didnt make their thermal paste and has done a recall and has even said it will look into the manufacturer of their thermal paste...SO i was sitting here thinking idont think COMPUSA makes their thermal paste do they? and if the dont make it then why not find out who does make it and go after them? i mean arent they liable for the stuff they manufacture? come on if they are seeling this stuff tocompusa and telling them it contains silver and they provide an MSDS (required AFAIK) for it then that is way wrong...providing a false MSDS is BIG trouble(as stated earlier)...so why not lookon one of those packages of COMPUSA thermal paste and see who actually manufactures it for them.....Maybe the same company OCZ used?


The lab tests seems to think Compusa's silver paste and Ocz's old recalled pastes were one and the same.

[silversinkbam]

do we know where that was? and if we do can there be something done about it?

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by Silversinksam



The lab tests seems to think Compusa's silver paste and Ocz's old recalled pastes were one and the same.

CompUsa Does not. TSI makes it for them...

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by ZGOZZ


CompUsa Does not. TSI makes it for them...

I believe you mean FMI, and if you look up who FMI is you will find that FMI is Compusa. Its not made by FMI and it has no silver in it...:rolleyes:

[harryinny3]

Your right about FMI. I bought my case from Compusa, Its an exact copy of the antec, but is built by FMI. Antec parts will interchange with it.. The box also said Compusa brand. So in short FMI is Compusa.

Try to find FMI on the internet, Everything points you to compusa. Because i want a replacement door for my case, and i can only get an antec one because theres no way to contact FMI. Believe me i looked for 2 days and everything led back to compusa Grrrrr.


Harry

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


I believe you mean FMI, and if you look up who FMI is you will find that FMI is Compusa. Its not made by FMI and it has no silver in it...:rolleyes:

oh please say you have a link..:p

[harryinny3]

Just google FMI, You will see.


Harry

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by harryinny3
Just google FMI, You will see.


Harry
I did nothing on Compusa

[silversinkbam]

ok well i founf out (on their own site) that they are a BBB company this means they are a part of the better business bearue (sp) so i think if enough people report thisarticle of sames then im sure that they CANT overlook it....i dont think COMPUSA would want a "bad" rep from the BBB

http://search.bbb.org/

type in compusa in there

[harryinny3]

because i sure couldnt find it to ask about the door being covered because of cheap clips holding it on.

Theres no info or contact point for FMI except for a listing for compusa.



Aslo anything FMI links to compusa. Products, Ect.
Harry

[ZGOZZ]

BBB of New Jersey,Inc.
1700 Whitehorse-Hamilton
Square, Suite D-5
Trenton, NJ 08690-3596
(609) 588-0808

COMP USA
1130 Rt. 1 North
Edison, NJ 08817
View Location Map



Principal: Bernard Henderson, Business Solutions Manager
Local Phone Number: (908) 000-0000
TOB Classification: Computers-Dealers


The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.

Customer Experience

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to a pattern of complaints. The company has resolved some complaints presented by the Bureau; however, some complaints remain unresolved.



Report as of: 2/1/2004

Copyright: 2004 BBB of New Jersey,Inc.

As a matter of policy, the Better Business Bureau does not endorse any product, service, or company. BBB reports generally cover a three-year reporting period, and are provided solely to assist you in exercising your own best judgment. Information contained in this report is believed reliable but not guaranteed as to accuracy. Reports are subject to change at any time.

The Better Business Bureau reports on members and non-members. Membership in the BBB is voluntary, and members must meet and maintain BBB standards. If a company is a member of the BBB, it is stated in this report.


For further information about this type of business category, please read the following publications, provided by the Council of Better Business Bureaus:

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by harryinny3
because i sure couldnt find it to ask about the door being covered because of cheap clips holding it on.

Theres no info or contact point for FMI except for a listing for compusa.



Aslo anything FMI links to compusa. Products, Ect.
Harry

BBB complaints don't bother Compusa, I have more effective methods up my sleave. I just need to wait the appropriate time before I go to plan B. Plan B will get Compusa'a attention. ;)

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


BBB complaints don't bother Compusa, I have more effective methods up my sleave. I just need to wait the appropriate time before I go to plan B. Plan B will get Compusa'a attention. ;)

Silversinksam I will be PM you on this mater.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by ZGOZZ


Silversinksam I will be PM you on this mater.

I got the PM, I will update you and all when the time for action comes. Only the people that own this paste will be needed, I need to talk to council to determine if this will apply to people that have purchased this in the past and have a reciept or a Credit card statement to that effect as well. Stay tuned.

[rmonster]

A little CA litigation, perhaps?

[skou]

So, here I was, in CompUSA to take a test for a job (TSA), while I was there, I ran across an employee, and pointed out the small discrepancy in their product. (The Front Page article.) He downloaded the lab reports, and was going to tell the store manager.

Hope I didn't speak out of turn, but someone at CrapUSA knows about it.

I was considering buying a package of the grease, but those 2 TINY tubes didn't look all that good. Those 2 tubes probably have as much as 1/2 of a decent AS3 tube. And a LOT more silver!

steve

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by skou
So, here I was, in CompUSA to take a test for a job (TSA), while I was there, I ran across an employee, and pointed out the small discrepancy in their product. (The Front Page article.) He downloaded the lab reports, and was going to tell the store manager.

Hope I didn't speak out of turn, but someone at CrapUSA knows about it.

I was considering buying a package of the grease, but those 2 TINY tubes didn't look all that good. Those 2 tubes probably have as much as 1/2 of a decent AS3 tube. And a LOT more silver!

steve

The Corp Office Off Crap USA knows about it.

[Silversinksam]

Originally posted by ZGOZZ


The Corp Office Off Crap USA knows about it.

They still havent replied back, but they have till Friday. Then as Emerill says, were 'Kickin’ It Up a Notch'.
;)

[ZGOZZ]

Originally posted by Silversinksam


They still havent replied back, but they have till Friday. Then as Emerill says, were 'Kickin’ It Up a Notch'.
;)

looking foward to it...........................:mad: