Need more RADs, Advice anyone? [Archive]

kamilkluczewski

01-26-04, 10:56 PM

hookkkay, so... I have my trusty p4 3.0C cooking thease days because I added a GPU water block, the Swifty MCW50T with the Peltier on top. So my temps went from like 35C Idle to 50C idle and up to 63C load. (Abit mobo readin temp wrong as allways so roughly 10C less then that).

So what I want to do is add another 2X120 RAD. And my choices are between the Innovatek Dual Fan Radiator or the DangerDen Black Ice Xtreme II Dual 120mm Radiator.

I have an Innovatek water kit with the Rev.3 Block, 3/8 tubbing and a single Innovatek 120mm RAD.

Which one? What do you guys suggest? And no im not stuffing a Core out of a Benz or a Vette or some other Gooli into it :D

Thank you in Advance for your replies.

Kam

OHH HERE IS MY CURRENT SETUP GO TO PAGE 2 for the most recent PICS :D :cool:
http://www.watsonsglen.com/comp/IMG_0968.jpg
http://www.watsonsglen.com/comp/IMG_0969.jpg
http://www.watsonsglen.com/comp/IMG_0970.jpg

I ordered a second Dual 120MM Innovatek RAD. I like my crap to be all the same. So here is the trick, do i run them serial, or Parallel?

Lothar5150

01-26-04, 11:07 PM

Sorry but I'm gonna say it...............Chevette Heater Core with a shroud.

Yuriman

01-26-04, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Lothar5150
Sorry but I'm gonna say it...............Chevette Heater Core with a shroud.

I second and third that. A single chevette has the ability to dissipate more heat than most pc's produce, though there are some special cases.

johan851

01-26-04, 11:35 PM

He wants a larger radiator...if you were to get something like a heatercore, a Caprice core would probably be your best bet. You don't seem to want that though...

I've heard some ok things about the BIX radiators, that would probably be your second choice. Keep in mind that they're fairly flow restrictive. If possible, you'd be better off running the BIX II and your other radiator in parallel.

squeakygeek

01-27-04, 12:45 AM

You could always take a huge A-coil from an air conditioning unit and re-plumb it from serpentine to parallel :D

SK8

01-27-04, 09:31 AM

i fourth that for a core , caprice or bonnivile. i get 35c idle and 38c load , and thats dropping when usps comes with my second blower !

Joe Camel

01-27-04, 10:19 AM

i added a 220w TEC to my sig rig (slitedge WB not the WW) and my water temps went thru the roof!! (75F b4 and 90F now) these TECs add ALOT of Btu. Since your TEC is on your GPU, its not a 220w (probly 80w-85w right?) so it wont be as bad. On the other hand, i only have the CPU in my main loop, so your CPU+GPU+TEC might just be close to my CPU+220w TEC.

All that said, i know I need another rad (second) for my setup, the BIX 2 (with 4x120mm 130+CFM fans) alone isnt enough for me.

i know this isnt an answer to your question, but some info about the BIX 2.

GOOD LUCK!!

When i do upgrade, i plan on adding another BIX 2 (parallel)

AngryAlpaca

01-27-04, 11:09 AM

Heater cores keep everything nice and cool.

SK8

01-27-04, 01:39 PM

GO WITH BLOWERS! , i get a 3c rise with load , idle is 33c load is 36c and i have a caprice with 2 85 cfm blowers. Trust me blowers will kill any axial fans for there price!

Joe Camel

01-27-04, 04:55 PM

i have one of thoes blowers on a sp-97, what 120mm fans did you have on your rad b4 skate? (SK8) i KNOW i could put 4 of thoes blowers on and still be quieter than 2 of these 120mm. what temp diff did you get?

SK8

01-27-04, 05:13 PM

the fans i had b4 where some cheap 80cfm uv green pos's from xoxide :X , blowers are where its @ !!!! i got a 2c drop in idle and a 5c drop in load

kamilkluczewski

01-27-04, 11:37 PM

h.....okay, I really dont plan to use anything made for a car in this PC. Ill leave that for my dual Opteron Setup next month. For now I'm just wondering if anyone here has used either the Innovatek Dual Fan Radiator or the DangerDen Black Ice Xtreme II Dual 120mm Radiator? BIX i hear is good any word on the Innovatek kit?

Sincerely,

Kam (Maverick) (Pylon Hunter)

UUUUUHHH and oh is the Eheim 1250 much louder then the 1048?

Lothar5150

01-27-04, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by kamilkluczewski
h.....okay, I really dont plan to use anything made for a car in this PC. Ill leave that for my dual Opteron Setup next month. For now I'm just wondering if anyone here has used either the Innovatek Dual Fan Radiator or the DangerDen Black Ice Xtreme II Dual 120mm Radiator? BIX i hear is good any word on the Innovatek kit?

Sincerely,

Kam (Maverick) (Pylon Hunter)

UUUUUHHH and oh is the Eheim 1250 much louder then the 1048?

It seems that most ppl have had pretty good luck with the BIX II the only problem with Innovatek seems to be the small inlet and outlet.

LOL.....save a couple of bucks and go with an L-30, mine runs great.

Joe Camel

01-28-04, 04:07 PM

if you plan on having all thoes WBs and big/2 big rads....Danner Mag 3. big BANG, little buck ;)

kamilkluczewski

01-31-04, 12:32 AM

OHH HERE IS MY CURRENT SETUP

I ordered a second Dual 120MM Innovatek RAD. I like my crap to be all the same. So here is the trick, do I run the rads serial, or parallel?

And how else can I install my pump so that i can fit my SBLive back in there. That on-board Abit Sound is absolute GARBAGE! :mad:

johan851

01-31-04, 01:24 AM

Definitely run the rads parallel. Innovatek rads are going to be a lot more restrictive than a heatercore, so you're going to need as little resistance as possible. Running them in series would kill your flow.

pauldenton

01-31-04, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by kamilkluczewski

And how else can I install my pump so that i can fit my SBLive back in there. That on-board Abit Sound is absolute GARBAGE! :mad:

raise it up? so that you could use the SBlive in one of the lower PCI slots?

Bleed

01-31-04, 06:51 AM

OT: how did you make your water look that nice? what did you use? thanks :D

kamilkluczewski

01-31-04, 03:12 PM

Thats just a standard Innovatek rev3 block with the P4 Retention Mechanism. Works damn well and the huge copper block in the middle of it does a good job of dissapating the heat from the core to the water.

Peace,

Kam

SemiCycle

01-31-04, 03:37 PM

I hope I didn't miss you explaining this above, but am I the only person that noticed his radiator is mounted flush against the bottom of the case? Is there an opening on the bottom of the case? **IF** there isn't a hole, I think a reposition would help a ton.

kamilkluczewski

01-31-04, 05:46 PM

Yes i used an coaster CD-R as a template to cut the perfect hole below the rad :D

Ok, will the 1048 give me enough head to run the two rads in Parallel?

Thanks,

Kam

SemiCycle

01-31-04, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by kamilkluczewski
Yes i used an coaster CD-R as a template to cut the perfect hole below the rad :D

I thought so. :)

Anyway, I don't think that pump has enough power to push liquid though 2 rads in parallel

squeakygeek

01-31-04, 07:14 PM

Actually, having two radiator in parallel will cause less flow resistance, so you won't need a more powerful pump.

SemiCycle

01-31-04, 08:27 PM

I know running the blocks in series will give a higher flow resistance then running them in parallel, but something just tells me that the eheim 1048 doesn't have the backbone for 2 rads with a gpu and watercblock ran in parallel.

How about the blocks in Series and the rads ran parallel?

kamilkluczewski

02-01-04, 12:13 AM

I run my rads in in parallel and my blocks in series?

That damn peltier put out massive heat though :S

oioooo has anyone taken the peliter off their MCW50-T and just had a MCW50 out of it?

Thanks

Kam

sanssheriff

02-01-04, 12:52 AM

hookkkay, so... I have my trusty p4 3.0C cooking thease days because I added a GPU water block, the Swifty MCW50T with the Peltier on top. So my temps went from like 35C Idle to 50C idle and up to 63C load. (Abit mobo readin temp wrong as allways so roughly 10C less then that).

Ouch, seems to me that the peltier is dumping an awful lot of heat into your system.

That damn peltier put out massive heat though :S

oioooo has anyone taken the peliter off their MCW50-T and just had a MCW50 out of it?

Thanks

Kam

Given that your setup should perform very nicely with just water cooling your 9800pro(although i'm sure radeon appreciates the pelt :)), I would definately dump the pelt. Maybe it would be more efficient on the cpu rather than the gpu. It seems to me that the differential of the heat output of the cpu and the pelt are much closer than that of the gpu and the pelt. Meaning the temps introduced to the system would be closer to the same amount, and you cpu would be very happy.

I would also elect to run two rads in parallel

just my thoughts, take them as you like

Good luck

sanssheriff

02-01-04, 12:58 AM

oh yeah btw, your setup looks really sweet. Nice work!

kamilkluczewski

02-02-04, 10:30 AM

Thanks Sheriff.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/scanido/images/side2.jpg

Now thats a beautiful rig, it Belongs to a fellow Canadian Scandio.
I think i need to call him for my upgrade setup, so i can get some tips.

Props to him for the sweet install.

Bleed, I just used normal Food Coloring, cost like $0.65 at the food store.

Peace out guys.

Kam

lclark2074

02-02-04, 11:17 AM

is that 3/8 tubimg i see before you get second rad i whuld upgrad to 1/2 tubing first then see what temps you get first i know the gpun will be problem.
I like the wiere loom stuff it keep clean and neat:)

Shadowcat

02-02-04, 11:47 AM

This 'Noise Isolator Glacial X' sounds intersting, there is the link:
http://www.chill-tek.com/products/radiators.html

I actually ordered one from Chill - Tek, but as of yet they have not sent it.. ( 3 weeks and now I'm starting legal action) so I don't recommend ordering anything from them if you feel like giving it a go.

kamilkluczewski

02-04-04, 11:57 AM

I find it to be too much hassle changing all the tubing to 1/2'. Besides my Eheim 1048 wont give me enough flow to effectively move water through 1/2 tubbing, remember it was designed for 5/16 ID tubbing right?

Here is what my buddy had to say about Scandios rig.

"_¸.·`¯)SEB(¯`·.¸_ says:
very impresive
_¸.·`¯)SEB(¯`·.¸_ says:
super hero like even"

DAMN, Scandio, wanna help me with mine? :D I PAY U!! :D

laters,

Kam

Bleed

02-04-04, 12:23 PM

normal food coloring? sweet.. thanks, now i need to redo my whole setup, tube stains everywhere and I think im seeing algae in there too :(.

and i agree, scandio has one of the cleanest watercooled rig I've seen :D

kamilkluczewski

02-04-04, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Bleed
normal food coloring? sweet.. thanks, now i need to redo my whole setup, tube stains everywhere and I think im seeing algae in there too :(.

NAH!!

Water Wetter, some 99% alcohol and food dye and your good to go. No algea and I dont mind blue tubes cause my setup is blue anyways :D

Peaceout,

Kam

squeakygeek

02-04-04, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by kamilkluczewski
I find it to be too much hassle changing all the tubing to 1/2'. Besides my Eheim 1048 wont give me enough flow to effectively move water through 1/2 tubbing, remember it was designed for 5/16 ID tubbing right?

Here is what my buddy had to say about Scandios rig.

"_¸.·`¯)SEB(¯`·.¸_ says:
very impresive
_¸.·`¯)SEB(¯`·.¸_ says:
super hero like even"

DAMN, Scandio, wanna help me with mine? :D I PAY U!! :D

laters,

Kam

Using bigger tubing will never result in less flow. The velocity will decrease, but the volume will increase.

ZachM

02-04-04, 05:05 PM

Swiftech warns against using the peltier GPU block in a loop with other non-peltier blocks. I would just take the pelt off. I doubt you can get much higher overclockes with the pelt than with normal WC on your Radeon unless you are willing to volt mod. You might as well try out the dual rads first though if you've already ordered the second one.

CevJuan

02-04-04, 05:49 PM

Awesome setup Kam, I agree with the rest of the guys about getting rid of your pelt. I currently am running a Athlon 3000+ with a 1/2" Danger Den cpu & chipset blocks with a heatercore out of a 86 Mustang.

My temps are freaking incredible & silent as hell.
Attached is a pic.

Just my $.02

But I really like the clean setup homie!!!

kamilkluczewski

02-05-04, 12:26 AM

I didnt know i couldnt run a pelt block with a non pelt block. Frig i wish i knew that earlier. :(

I'm still waiting for the UPS dudley to arrive with my RAD, cause the dudes at FROZENCPU messed up mee order :mad: :(

Peace,

Kam

AlienHack

02-05-04, 05:03 AM

kamilkluczewski , dont change your gpu's peltier and put it on your cpu as sanssheriff said. This peltier is what, 80Watt? do you know what your cpu's output in watts is? almost surely over 100! that means that if you put the 80Watt peltier on your cpu it wont be able to transfer the 100+ Watt heat from the hot side (cpu side) to its cold side (watercooled side) and that would make the hot side even hotter and thus you cpu would fry!! THATS BASIC PELTIER THEORY!!

Almost if you put your rads in pararell the eheim will not only be enough but it will work better than it does now because you will have more flowrate as your radiator bottleneck will double (2 x rad in pararel) .

Finally even if you have a hole on the bottom of your case for the air of the rad, there are some major issiues. Fisrstly, the hole is in the bottom of the case, when the case is sitting on its feet, how does air flow through it? Secondly does the radiators fan blow air or suck air? If it blows from the inside to the outside then the air is hotter (in the case the temps are 5-6 C higher than outside of the case ambiends, that is especially in watercooled pcs where there are no fans to suck and push air in the case) , so change the fans polarity or mounting to suck air form the outside. also put your case on high legs so that the hole is wide open, these two changes will surely drop your temps by 3-6C The ideal would be to place your rad-rads outside your case, screw them at the back side of your case , not the one with the window, the oposite one. Just make holes for the hoses to come out and in and screw them there. It will surely affect temps.

kamilkluczewski

02-05-04, 10:43 PM

Im kinda sketchy about having stuff hang outside my case :S. I wasnt planning to put the 85W Pelt on the CPU, but ill probably just invest in a new Swifty MCW5000-PT with a 225W pelt.

Theoretical question though: if i do get another MCW5000-PT pelt will the GPU_85W+CPU_225W=TOTAL_310W of heat generated by the pelts overload my cooling system?:eek:

Remember, now I'm going to have 2 Rads running in Pars, with 3/8' tubing and 1048pump?? Doable?

Yesh, no, maaaayyyyybeee?

Thanks dudes! Peace out.

Kam

sanssheriff

02-06-04, 03:57 AM

Yeah uh, strike what I said earlier bout puttin the pelt on the cpu it's oviously underpowered for that app, but this (http://www.overclockers.com/tips1045/) may be a good use for it:beer:.

but seriously, rads in par, and ensuring a good unimpeded air flow through your rads as AlienHack suggests should net you decent performance <shrugs>. I would think that increasing tubing size will also get you a couple degrees off, but that can mean changing a whole lot (is it worth it?). Good luck Kam

Peace

kamilkluczewski

02-07-04, 03:25 AM

THATS THE BEST IDEA somones HAD YET FOR A PELT!!!

http://www.overclockers.com/tips1045/

I actually think im going to do that, I have enough spare crap laying around to build something like that :D

But but............ my 9800Pro really likes the pelt :( And Im not sure if i cant take apart the MCW50-T very easily.

Anywhoo, my second rad install is going slowly, I decided to revisit some ghosts from the past. The pump is no longer going to be screwed into the case, I added foam insulation to the bottom and the front.

1) for noise
2) for optimal airflow through predetermined air streams
3) looks very savy

The pump will no longer be hard wired into the PSU also, now i just made a second powe connector for it :D

My loop before was like this

Pump -> GPU -> Rad -> Cpu -> Pump -|

Now

Pump -> RAD -> RAD -> CPU -> GPU -> Pump

Also I decided to add two more spare hard drives, thats a beetch along with all the extra wiring. Also I'm adding a power switch for the pelt. So if im ripping stuff or decoding I wont need it running, but I'll turn it on for gameing :D:cool:

I'll keep everyone posted with my progress, but this is going to be one fine system and most of the setup will be internal and have some kick arse cooling properties.

Thanks guys,

Kam

creepy

02-07-04, 04:50 AM

How is the mcw-50t working for you? I purchased one awhile back and have had no luck w/ it at all.

wannaoc

02-07-04, 08:48 AM

Not sure if you have considered this but its something I'm doing right now. Putting the CPU in one loop with its own rad and pump and putting the gpu and possibly a nb block if you want on a seperate loop. It takes alot of room but it should work well. I am using a full tower for this and its still pretty tight though.

lclark2074

02-08-04, 12:59 AM

Yes i like that cooler i nead one but i think it neads switch and temp prob so you will now when the beer is cool enuff:)

Joe Camel

02-08-04, 12:33 PM

did i read that right? your thinking of NOT powering your GPU TEC sometimes? i dont think thats a good idea, but i might be wrong....

AlienHack

02-09-04, 07:04 AM

Joe Camel you are probably right!!
I dont think that the peltiers are very good meanings of thermal tranfer when they are not on.. Theoretically their lack of good thermal transfer may result in higher temps or even extremely higher temps that may hurt the cpu.
All these in theory.. anyway i havent heard of anyone else powering down their peltier at will..

Joe maybe we shouldnt tell kamilkluczewski about it so we have someone trying it out. this way we will have directly hard evidence of whether it is doable or not.. ;-))

Joe Camel

02-09-04, 04:54 PM

heck no!! (i know you were j/k)

TECs are cool but they add SOOO much heat to a loop. ive been using mine for about a month now (i can TELL in my elect. bill) and can say that im "on the fence" about if its worth it or not ($/MHz & effort/MHz) for CPU cooling.

im wondering if GPU TEC cooling might have a better ratio.

thus i dont want any bad "TEC cooled GPU" threads...

kamilkluczewski

02-10-04, 02:22 AM

Creepy Im extremely happy with my MCW50-T pelted GPU cooler. It was a gift from my sister, she got it for me as a Christmass gift. Other then the fact that it adds a lot of hear to the water, I have no worries. My 9800PRO went from 400Mhz Max OC to 469Mhz Max. Even the ram can be pushed a little further, mine is running at 360 or 370Mhz mem (cant remmember) without any ram sinks :D

And yes I tried running the card once without the peltier module plugged in, it ran fine at its stock 9800Pro speed in 3dmark03 and 3dmark01 for 12H Loops each. So the only time im going to turn it on is during 3dGameing.

I still have a bit of work left with the upgrades and and switches and soldering and all the other crap. I'll post new pics and updates as soon as I have it done :D

Thanks Everyone,

Kam