Cascade increased my overclock by 90 MHz

I was using a maze 2 and running at 2420 MHz (220 x 11) with 1.9V. Even using up to 1.95V did not enable my cpu to overclock further. I'm talking about everyday settings here which for me have to be prime95 stable for at least 8 hours.
I put the cascade on there and now its prime stable at 2507 MHz (218 x 11.5) with 1.95V. I'm really happy about this because 2500 MHz has been my goal for a long time.
I know people are going to want temps. But I don't know what's my temps are. The sensor on my NF7 must be screwed because the temps can vary by 10C between boots. I tried to fix it by bending the thermister up further to make sure it makes good contact with the bottom of the cpu. But that didn't change anything. Oh well.
I am using water chilled to 10-15C and a pump with 18 ft. of head.

Congrats! Sounds like a good plan. How are you chilling the water, and what pump is that?

To make you feel better about your NF7-S; mine does the exact same thing, core temperatures read from that socket diode vary a great deal each time I turn the machine on, even though room temperatures remain constant.

It's good to see that the new block got you up to 2500 MHz - why don't you play with your awesome water temperatures, and overvolt a little more - see how high you can go? How's the external unit working out BTW?

Yeah, my NF7-S does that on occasion too. Man...I need a better block.

The cooling is working out really well. I've played with some more volts and ran up to 2640 MHz but I like using under 2V for 24/7.
The pump is a grundfos circulator pump. The cooling is 50' of copper pipe burried outside in wet ground.

wow had to use that much voltage and a "high tec block to get a 2500+ to 2.5...bummer. you got a bteer FSB than me a that I am jelous of...congrats man!

FizzledFiend said:

wow had to use that much voltage and a "high tec block to get a 2500+ to 2.5...bummer. you got a bteer FSB than me a that I am jelous of...congrats man!

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Am very proud of my XP2500+ running at 2.82GHz (and stable) with the Cascade SS. Always gives me a smile when I see guys with Prometia's and the like getting lower overclocks.

I found the Cascade to have excellent "hot-spot" management for CPU's, typically allowing for a higher overclock despite the temperatures not being dramatically different in comparison to some other blocks.

Is that true of the WW as well, or more a result of the indentations on the inside of the cascade right over the CPU?

johan851 said:

Is that true of the WW as well, or more a result of the indentations on the inside of the cascade right over the CPU?

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While the WW does offer very good overclocking potential, especially with its closely spaced fins, the Cascade with its many cups, each receiving their own dedicated jet, means that the cooling effect is more uniform over the entire CPU area.

I'm of the opinion that the White Water cools better than the Cascade right under the nozzle jet where all the water enters, but this cooling effect diminishes as one moves further away to each side of the jet towards the outer edge of the main impingement region. This is true of most any block and is something that I tried to address with the Cascade's design. With the Cascade the cooling effect is much more uniform, which is what gives its overclocking prowess.

I've always believed that this is a story that temperatures alone cannot tell. As we all know, all of the CPU isn't generating the heat, just the small sections that are responsible for whatever the CPU happens to be doing at that time. With the Cascade, it doesn't matter what section of the CPU is generating the heat, it'll still get cooled almost identically to any other section.

Cathar said:

I've always believed that this is a story that temperatures alone cannot tell. As we all know, all of the CPU isn't generating the heat, just the small sections that are responsible for whatever the CPU happens to be doing at that time. With the Cascade, it doesn't matter what section of the CPU is generating the heat, it'll still get cooled almost identically to any other section.

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As long as your not stating that a higher overclock with said block is a better block. That would be an incorrect statement.

Alright, that makes sense. Would the WW's design benefit from shorter fins - like, having a shorter length of fins, more localized over the CPU core?

Cathar what is the stepping info on your cpu , and w/c setup...?

SysCrusher said:

As long as your not stating that a higher overclock with said block is a better block. That would be an incorrect statement.

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I admit that I don't quite follow what you're trying to say with that sentence.

I think he is trying to say that a waterblock's 'goodness' is measured only by how well it cools raw temperature wise, not how high of an overclock improvement it allows (as possibly caused by very uniform core cooling - or 'hot spot' management as you out it ).

Which makes no sense - A higher overclock is the goal here.

Cathar said:

I admit that I don't quite follow what you're trying to say with that sentence.

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Using overclockablity as a gauge of a blocks performance shouldn't be used. Each CPU is different and will overclock differently. As an example; I have two Bartons and one overclocks quite nicely at 2400 with 1.9v. The other only gets to 2200 at 1.75V and will do no more no matter what block i use or volts I use. With different blocks, they acheive their same overclocks. I even chilled the water. True gauge of performace would be their c/w rating which the cascade does quite well within it's design. I expect it to do even better with a higher heat load where most blocks just can't do better. I'm even betting load temps with the cascade will level off until idle temps are the same as load temp. Then climb out of control after that.

felinusz said:

Which makes no sense - A higher overclock is the goal here.

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Makes every bit of sense. Higher overclock is always the goal for me too. Get what I can for my hard earned cash.

Using overclockability as a gauge of a blocks performance would be an understatement for all blocks. Not to mention, alot of consumers would be ****ed off if said block didn't get them the high overclock. I presume we're a bit smarter than most consumers are though.

But if you are comparing the *same* processor's overclock, with several different waterblocks, and results at a specific Vcore are different with each block, isn't that a good indication of each block's performance as well? I see what you mean about different processors.

If the 'Hot Spot' theory is correct, then there ends up being more to a 'good waterblock' than it's c/w rating.

I really shouldn't have said 'it makes no sense' to juge a block solely by it's performance temperature-wise, but if other factors do exist, and are signifigant, then they really do need to somehow be factored in as well, don't they? Current testing methods don't.

EDIT: To the consumer, temperature is a very 'visible' guage of performace - so it makes perfect sense to juge waterblocks by their c/w ratings.

Next, however, we get into specific flow rates, and how they affect performance, and whether any given block is ideal for a low flow, or high flow system. Add the double edged sword of pump heat that needs to be dealt with for a high flow system. Next add the possibility that 'Hot Spot' management might just be a major factor in a waterblock's performance, and you see why I hastily said 'it makes no sense' above .

I am a hobbyist overclocker. Having been part of the MadOnion/FutureMark high-score chasing scene part-time in an opportunistic sense, meaning that I'll chase high scores if my present hardware allows me to do so. I don't buy/upgrade every month like some of the serious "racers".

For me though, and given that this is an overclocker's dedicated forum, the peak achievable stable overclock is always the goal here.

Here's a scenario:

If you have to pick between a block that cools on average about 5C better than another block, but the higher temperature block allows for a higher overclock, which block would you choose?

Fortunately the choice isn't that hard with the Cascade. As a number of tests have shown, the Cascade does tend to offer the lowest outright temperatures (within margins of user error).

I agree that each CPU is unique and that some will not overclock more, no matter what you do, but not all CPU's are like that (most will overclock more the better you cool them and the more voltage you push through them).

For example, I put up my Cascade SS against someone's Vapochill PE in an overclocking "shootout". The end result was that the two cooling solutions fell within 20MHz of each other for a peak stable overclock, with the Vapo winning on the T'Bred B tested by 15MHz, and the Cascade SS winning for the Barton CPU tested by 20MHz. The Vapo unit had to be remounted about 10 times before it even achieved results that got that close to the Cascade, typically seeing results of around 50MHz worse.

Hey, that's phase-change though. Sub-zero temperatures and all that. It gets back to how well the cooling is being applied across the CPU surface.

For me it always comes back to the potential to overclock better. When the Cascade is offering a ~2C improvement over a White Water the tendency is to think that's a pretty small difference, but if over a number of CPU's tested that 80% of the time the CPU's could be overclocked further, then that tends to seal it for me, regardless of the actual temperature difference.

The key word here is potential. Every CPU is different, and nothing is a guarantee, just like all savvy overclockers know. It's all about improving one's odds.

SK8 said:

Cathar what is the stepping info on your cpu , and w/c setup...?

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XP2500+ that does 2.82GHz
AQXEA 0330 RPMW "Y"

XP2800+ that does 2.72GHz
AQUCA 0304

Cascade SS
Iwaki MD30-RZ pump
Dual heatercore setup

Alright, that makes sense. Would the WW's design benefit from shorter fins - like, having a shorter length of fins, more localized over the CPU core?

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No. No benefit by shortening the fins.

Doesnt that md30-rz put heat in the loop. Wouldnt you benefit of having a 20rzt. Btw any hints of when the Cascade SS will be ready you can answer by pm if you prefer.
TheNewGuy