Tips for aligning nozzles in cups on cascade?

pelikan · Feb 2, 2004

When I received my used cascade it had previously been taken apart for cleaning and reassembled. I put some water in there and it looked like the nozzles were not aligned in the center of the cups. I loosened the bolts and moved the center plate a little so that the nozzles seemed to be more in the center. But its hard to tell for sure because the polycarb and plexi seems to distort the view a little.
Anyone have any tips to make aligning this sucker easier?
Thanks.

Mikeonatrike · Feb 2, 2004

I dont think it matters all that much if they are not aligned rite. They should align them selves anyways when u put the bolts in.

sbud · Feb 2, 2004

Actually, I believe Cathar said that it was crucial for the jets to be aligned for optimum results.... I could be wrong though.

pelikan · Feb 2, 2004

sbud said:
Actually, I believe Cathar said that it was crucial for the jets to be aligned for optimum results.... I could be wrong though.

Yeah, that's what it says in the manual.

nikhsub1 · Feb 2, 2004

sbud said:
Actually, I believe Cathar said that it was crucial for the jets to be aligned for optimum results.... I could be wrong though.

You are not wrong... alignment is crucial for better flowrate. I'm sure Cathar will chime in.

Cathar · Feb 2, 2004

I just do what you did. Tighten the bolts gently - finger tight basically. Put some water into the block which clears up the machined polycarb nicely, and look down at about a 45 degree angle at the jets/cups, and align them. Doing it from just two sides is good enough. Just keep tilting the block, preferably under some good light, and you should be able to clearly make out where the jet tubes enter the cups. I mostly dry assemble them (no water) and can still see the tubes/cups well enough with good light.

felinusz · Feb 2, 2004

I opened mine up last night, just out of curiosity.

I found that the manual's method worked fairly well: first put the middle plate on top of the base, and try your best to get the nozzles lined up.

Next look through the open hole in the middle plate (the one for the out barb), and see if the nozzles are centered in the holes.

Once they looked centered to me, I placed the top on, and gripped the sides firmly to prevent it from moving. If it is lined up the middle plate, and two plates should be perfectly flush, with no overhang/underhang on either side. The manual said that turning the middle plate 180 degrees may be neccessary to find the right alignment.

Gripping the upper plate, and middle plate tightly, I clamped the screws down in a X-cross pattern, one half turn at a time. The nozzles seem to be in their holes, and look nice and even. I still think I should have just left it alone, and not taken any chances with it though.

Cathar · Feb 2, 2004

If you have a Cascade you can also modify it to have a lower flow-resistance, and this is something that I've done with the newer Cascade SS's that are going out in the next two weeks.

Using a 2.2mm drill bit (must be 2.2mm) and a drill press (essential), drill out the tops of the cups down about 1.5mm. Don't go deeper. Follow up with a quick lap of the top of the base-plate to remove any burs/ridges as a result of the drilling. This gives the cups/tubes a little more room to "breathe", and makes about a 10% improvement on the pressure drop of the block, resulting in slightly higher flow rates, and seems to improve performance very slightly too.

felinusz · Feb 2, 2004

Would there be an easy way to customize the block for optimal performance in a very high flow system?

An off topic question:

One thing I'm wondering about Cathar, does the copper block only have two barbs (instead of three like the WW, and RBX) because the mini-cups don't create any signifigant 'cross flow' generated by the jets, making perfectly even water dispersal unnessacery?

Would it be beneficial to add a third barb to the block, to allow for more even water dispersal?

UberBlue · Feb 2, 2004

Cathar said:
If you have a Cascade you can also modify it to have a lower flow-resistance, and this is something that I've done with the newer Cascade SS's that are going out in the next two weeks.

Using a 2.2mm drill bit (must be 2.2mm) and a drill press (essential), drill out the tops of the cups down about 1.5mm. Don't go deeper. Follow up with a quick lap of the top of the base-plate to remove any burs/ridges as a result of the drilling. This gives the cups/tubes a little more room to "breathe", and makes about a 10% improvement on the pressure drop of the block, resulting in slightly higher flow rates, and seems to improve performance very slightly too.

Would you have a pic of this handy? Seems easy enough for a substantial 10% decrease in pressure drop.

With that being done, would over-boring the jet tubes have a positive effect?

EDIT: Just plugged the data for the cascade -10% pressure drop into Excell and graphed it. That 10% makes up for the pressure drop from two 2-342 rads in series and 5' of tubing with a little left over. Well worth it IMO. Crosses the MD-20RZ data right at 9.3lpm

vonkaar · Feb 2, 2004

My butter fingers would screw it up... I just know it.

UberBlue · Feb 2, 2004

vonkaar said:
My butter fingers would screw it up... I just know it.

I feel your pain. Taking a drill press to an irreplaceable hunk of silver is a frightening thought.

Cathar · Feb 2, 2004

UberBlue said:
Would you have a pic of this handy? Seems easy enough for a substantial 10% decrease in pressure drop.

With that being done, would over-boring the jet tubes have a positive effect?

Will take a picture when I do it later this week.

Over-boring the jet tubes is NOT recommended at all. Your block will perform worse, and there's a high chance that you will break the tubes if you don't know what you're doing. If anything, with higher pressure pumps (>Mag3) the jet-tube bores should be a little smaller.

UberBlue · Feb 2, 2004

Cathar said:
Will take a picture when I do it later this week.

Sweet! Thank you.

Cathar said:
Over-boring the jet tubes is NOT recommended at all. Your block will perform worse, and there's a high chance that you will break the tubes if you don't know what you're doing. If anything, with higher pressure pumps (>Mag3) the jet-tube bores should be a little smaller.

Increase in jet velocity over flow. To a point I'd imagine.

pelikan · Feb 2, 2004

Thankyou everyone for the help. I'm glad to know I was doing it right. I think the reason it was difficult for me is my lack of 20-20 vision.

Edit: Cathar, thanks for the tip to increase flow rate!

Cathar · Feb 2, 2004

felinusz said:
Would there be an easy way to customize the block for optimal performance in a very high flow system?

Assume you meant "high pressure".

One thing to try if you're handy with a stanley knife, is to grab a piece of plastic (such as is used on binders). Cut out a small piece that would fit into the plenum cavity in the lid under the inlet barb. Now cut out a shape into the plastic that is the same size of your CPU plus about 1mm each side.

For example, for a Barton Athlon XP CPU, cut out a 16x9mm rectangle from your little plastic insert.

Now stick the insert into the plenum chamber so that it basically blocks off the flow to the jets that don't sit directly above or just to the sides of the CPU. This will make the block more restrictive, but it will boost jet velocity quite dramatically where it's most needed.

FIZZ3 · Feb 3, 2004

Cathar, did you make more design changes to this new CSS series you spoke of? Also are these 3-barb versions again?

felinusz · Feb 3, 2004

Assume you meant "high pressure".

One thing to try if you're handy with a stanley knife, is to grab a piece of plastic (such as is used on binders). Cut out a small piece that would fit into the plenum cavity in the lid under the inlet barb. Now cut out a shape into the plastic that is the same size of your CPU plus about 1mm each side.

For example, for a Barton Athlon XP CPU, cut out a 16x9mm rectangle from your little plastic insert.

Now stick the insert into the plenum chamber so that it basically blocks off the flow to the jets that don't sit directly above or just to the sides of the CPU. This will make the block more restrictive, but it will boost jet velocity quite dramatically where it's most needed.

Yep, thats what I meant

Sounds good, I'll try and give it a try, and see if it makes a signifigant difference with lots of pressure, Thanks!

.

feyd83 · Feb 3, 2004

I believe the 3-barb versions were per requests of the customer(s).

FIZZ3 · Feb 4, 2004

feyd83 said:
I believe the 3-barb versions were per requests of the customer(s).

I know, and those were the Silver ("SS") blocks- Cathar was talking about a new batch of these silver puppies, hence my question.

Tips for aligning nozzles in cups on cascade?

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