View Full Version : R420/423 specs "released"
We have been hearing about R420 for quite some time now and recently the name R423 has been in the headlines. As you can guess, R420 is the AGP successor to the R350 (Radeon 9800) while R423 is a PCIe version of the R420. The specs on the two GPUs are as follows:
0.13-micron low-k manufacturing process
160M transistors
~500MHz core clock
8 pipe design
6 vertex engines
Improvements to all of the basic architectural features (shader engines, AA, etc...)
256MB 256-bit GDDR3 (~1GHz data rate)
Single slot design
The R420/423 chips will offer twice the pixel fill rate and vertex throughput of the R350 core, as well as increases in memory bandwidth. Initial indications show that there may be two versions of the R420/423 with different memory clocks; one design calls for ~1GHz GDDR3 memory while the other calls for slower DDR1 memory.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1966
Not as "Impressive" as all the rumours were (ie, 12-16 pipes, etc), but still not too shabby. Since it sounds like it will properly utilize the GDDR3, as well as having improvements in the overall architecture, I'm guessing there will be a good increase in performance, especially in newer games.
I'm wondering how it will compare to the NV40 now, since there aren't any "official" numbers for that yet.
Also, at least the 9800 Pro will remain a reasonable mid-range card for at least another year, judging from the specs of the RV series.
scanido
02-13-04, 01:21 PM
The article is still all based solely on rumors and is not official, thus should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.
Word of mouth is the vertex shaders are much more efficient and based on the R500 so that alone will be an improvement.
Originally posted by scanido
Word of mouth is the vertex shaders are much more efficient and based on the R500 so that alone will be an improvement.
The R500 is still in development, so they cant be based off the R500 because its not done being written up, let alone tested.
xtrmeocr
02-13-04, 01:45 PM
can only hope those numbers are wrong, because i'm less then impressed :(
SewerBeing
02-13-04, 02:39 PM
yeah, I was expecting some revolution in the graphics card industry, but if those are the specs, it makes me sick.
scanido
02-13-04, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Evnas
The R500 is still in development, so they cant be based off the R500 because its not done being written up, let alone tested.
Your a wise guy eh! ;)
I should of phrased it better. What i meant was the vertex shaders would be thge underlying architecture for the much anticipated R500 core. The point I made was the new vertex shaders will be more efficient, that's all, and there's 6 of them!
Anyways, it's only specs and noone should judge performance just on those numbers alone! Wait till the release and the official benchmarks!
Honestly, i could give a rats *ss about GPUs!
Well it seems that even tho the specs aren't that impressive the card would use PCI-Express which means the card should be runing fast. But oh yeah, new mobo would be needed.. oh well it is almost like a revolution :). And again, this could be like the migration of 4x AGP to 8x.. not much difference.
DDR-PIII
02-13-04, 02:54 PM
Hmmm, seems kinda, slow, but oh well, even of those are real specs, its good to see what kinda mem they will finally be using :)
Steven4563
02-13-04, 03:03 PM
i hope them numbers are wrong too becuase i would off like to see 12*1 or 16*1 pipes :(
Sentential
02-13-04, 03:19 PM
B4 we start flaming ATi, we still dont know the price!
Now if its $500 they we have a right to be kinda ****ed. But if its $300 its a different ball game. Lets just see how the benchies look.
Steven4563
02-13-04, 03:23 PM
i wasnt flaming ATi just saying what id like to see :p
Voodoo Rufus
02-13-04, 04:25 PM
I posted that same link in the ATI section, but oh well.....
If people went to higher pipe widths, where the heck are they going to get the bandwidth?!?!!
I want to see more power pumped into the RV380 myself. It's all less than impressive.
DDR-PIII
02-13-04, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Voodoo Rufus
I posted that same link in the ATI section, but oh well.....
If people went to higher pipe widths, where the heck are they going to get the bandwidth?!?!!
I want to see more power pumped into the RV380 myself. It's all less than impressive.
wyh ? its a midrange chip witha midrange speed:)
Voodoo Rufus
02-13-04, 04:45 PM
Yeah but they're not cranking it too much higher. Needs more mem bandwidth. I guess 800 isn't so bad.....
If the price is right....
Originally posted by scanido
The article is still all based solely on rumors and is not official, thus should be taken with a 'grain of salt'.
Agreed, but at least the article and source are slightly more reasonable that what the Inquirer spews out every couple weeks. :p ;)
Contrary to my previous post, I wouldn't be surprised at all if these aren't the real specs. To me they seem alright, but not a revolution at all.
I'll be pretty dissapointed if those are the real stats unless they pull a quick one and it runs games like no other.
=(
tom10167
02-14-04, 07:29 AM
Why would ATI decide to make a revolutionary card? There's no need for it.
harryinny3
02-14-04, 07:41 AM
Heck my 9800pro is kicking out 175-200fps in CoD MP with 15 other dudes on the screen. If anything, My broadband needs more. It seems like it has a hard time keeping up.
Why would you need Anything more than 150fps @ 1280x1024x32 6X and 16X All Set to Highest quality.
This 9800pro will handle any new game i decide to throw at it.
Harry
comfortablynumb
02-14-04, 08:26 AM
I'm with Tom and Harry, unless some revolutionary new shading tecnology etc
emerges, 150fps @ 1280x1024 is plenty.
It seems few games take full advantege of the current tecnology, and considering
the time it takes to fully develop a game it would seem todays top of the line cards
would still be pretty good a year from now.....
My 2 pennies...
CN
tom10167
02-14-04, 08:41 AM
Well the thing is, they're not going to come out with some revolutionary game tomorrow, things go in gradual steps because its safer, easier, more logical. Just because they come out with a new video card doesn't mean you have to get it.
Originally posted by scanido
Your a wise guy eh! ;)
I prefer smart ass, but yes :D :cool:
Originally posted by tom10167
Why would ATI decide to make a revolutionary card? There's no need for it.
Exactly. ATI can't do anything revolutionary on their own, they need software support for it as well. There is no reason for ATI to make major architectural changes at this point. These are still DX9 parts and as such will have similar features and limitations when compared to other DX9 parts. These parts should add PS3.0 support, but that was part of DX9.0b, so it is about time someone released hardware supporting it.
Don't ever expect major hardware changes unless a part is being released near the time of a major DirectX release, that is the way it has worked in recent history and I don't see any reason why that would change. For example, the original Geforce/Radeon came out near the introduction of DX7 which supported the fixed function T&L engines; the Geforce2 was mearly an evolution of that part. The Geforce3/Radeon 8500 came out with DX8 which added support for programmable pixel and vertex shaders; the Geforce4 was mearly an evolution of the Geforce3. The Radeon9500+/GeforceFX came out with DX9, which had support for PS2.0 and VS2.0; the R420/NV40 are simply evolutions of those parts.
Every major release has made some fundamental change in the way graphics were programmed. All of the evolutionary parts, however, added new features and speed over the original parts, but were still of the same generation and worked within the same general framework as the original parts of their generation.
I see these new chips as being similar to the change from the Geforce3 to the Geforce4. The GF4 supported better pixel shaders (1.2 and 1.3), was faster, and eventually added AGP8x support. Where here, the R42x supports better pixel shaders (3.0), is going to be faster, and will eventually add PCI-E support.
What I find most interesting is this is the first generation ATI has come out with follow up products. Every other release they have had to fight with the drivers for the entire generation in order to get/keep the original part competitive, never refreshing the hardware. They have now done it a number of times in this generation, from the R300 to R350 to R360, and now seemingly to R420. I attribute this to the fact they were always playing catch-up in the past, and now are vying to maintain the performance lead.
comfortablynumb
02-14-04, 12:11 PM
well, all I wish for is for ATI to release good Linux support for whatever they decide to
make...........
CN
I think kct2 put it all perfectly into perspective. It does make more sense (especially after reading his post ;) ) for both ATi and nVidia to make a 'evolutionary' part rather than a 'revolutionary' since there is nothing really out there that can utilize any new features.
MetalStorm
02-14-04, 01:31 PM
Who ever said this card would be revolutionary?! if anything, the DX10 cards will be the next revolutionary thing, so R500, and NV50
jtjuska
02-15-04, 01:31 PM
I agree with MetalStorm, I believe that the new cards will be an improvement and no doubts about that but there isn't a need for things to change dramatically. It would be a waist of ATI's money to release something that the full potenial of isn't used for say a year from now. What they are doing makes a lot of sense to me, I won't like it if they stick with 8 pipes but what can I do, the other pipe enhancement will help, and as already stated it really depends on how much it costs when its released. Personally I hope its released in April, but who am I to say what should be done. (sorry if I got a little long winded)
Overclocker550
02-15-04, 02:43 PM
If ati gets too confident and uses only 8 pipes, Nvidia would just own this time around, especially with their "famous" forceware drivers. Itll be something like nv40 50% faster than r420 but somewhat worse IQ. this all doesnt matter to me, ill just hold onto my ti4200 longer if no good cards are yet out. my card before that was a geforce2mx
harryinny3
02-15-04, 05:30 PM
on this NV40 would NOT make the card 50% faster than the R420. Where are you getting this info from?
My 9600XT isnt 50% slower than a 9700pro that has 4 more pipes, and thats 50% more pipes. And double bandwidth. So please explain the 50% your talking about.
Harry
Originally posted by Overclocker550
If ati gets too confident and uses only 8 pipes, Nvidia would just own this time around, especially with their "famous" forceware drivers. Itll be something like nv40 50% faster than r420 but somewhat worse IQ. this all doesnt matter to me, ill just hold onto my ti4200 longer if no good cards are yet out. my card before that was a geforce2mx
here we go again...:rolleyes:
tom10167
02-15-04, 06:42 PM
Aaaanddddddddddd I'm not going in this topic anymore.
Overclocker550
02-15-04, 08:42 PM
in 1600x1200 with aa/af a 9700 pro will blow past your 9600xt by more than 50% just check the reviews
Oh my god guys, give it a rest already.
=0
harryinny3
02-15-04, 11:34 PM
Reviews dont mean squat man I have real world cards To use and test. I do more than read, I actually get the cards and run em. And yes ive had a 9700pro here also. Got a few LAN friends around.
This issue is dead till the cards come out. Unsubscribe is a good thing.
Harry
Voodoo Rufus
02-16-04, 08:36 PM
Hmm, I'm with Excelsior.
There's so much cool stuff coming out this year, graphics cards are just one piece of the pie.
snyper1982
02-16-04, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by Overclocker550
in 1600x1200 with aa/af a 9700 pro will blow past your 9600xt by more than 50% just check the reviews
but we are NOT talking abou two parts based off esentialy the same core here are we? you are pulling numbers from your @ss again, and basing your reasoning on complete speculation.
HungryForHertz
02-17-04, 05:53 AM
Just because its a new line of cards we shouldn't expect something revolutionary. It all depends on when new drivers appear. If you hear of DirectX10 emerging, then you can get excited. When the mobo manafacturers start planning pci-e and other new connection methods, again get excited.
I don't think nVidia or ATI will launch with anything fantastically new, I think they will be fast and a few new things. They'll see how it all goes, if the new line does well they will start the real new & special things, getting driver releases just at the right time.
snyper1982
02-17-04, 09:10 AM
what are you talking about? pci-e is going to make absolutely NO difference in performance, and in case you didnt know, they are going to be releasing a version of the r420 that is pci-e. and dx is not a driver, its an api.
Sentential
02-17-04, 10:19 AM
How about we focus on something we will all agree with. Reguardless of how the cards perform, just enjoy em.
Besides you still need a good CPU to play games too ya know!
Bertus02
02-17-04, 11:24 AM
whats the release dates on the next gen cards?
Mr.Guvernment
02-19-04, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Aslan
Not as "Impressive" as all the rumours were (ie, 12-16 pipes, etc), but still not too shabby. .
the 12-16 pipes rumours were all about NVIDIA i had heard - from the start it was always ATI would have 8 of them.
Mr.Guvernment
02-19-04, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Bertus02
whats the release dates on the next gen cards?
March / April - so we dont have long to wait - ATI already had a demo card for PCI-E @ the IDF show.
Voodoo Rufus
02-19-04, 11:57 AM
Sounds good. Though I've heard some things about summer....
stabber
02-19-04, 01:26 PM
WHAT? AGP is being replaced? lol
As is standard PCI, just like ISA was replaced ~6 or 7 years ago
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