What intel chip to run?

[samuknow]

I'm having some probs with a PII 450 I have. I just received my mobo and am trying to get it setup.

I think I am going to replace my cpu. What is a decent chip for a good price. My mobo is a slot 1 Soyo 6VBA 133b. Via chipset. I was thinking of a 600 celery with a slotket.
I'm looking for something I can oc pretty good and still not drop a ton of cash for the chip. I see alot of Celeron with great oc percentages. What do you guys think and what can I expect out of a celeron with a slotket?

Thanks

[bdf24]

If you got the cash go for the PIII 700 instead of the celeron. A lot of guys are getting over a gig with those chips. They only run around $100.00 or so.

[bdf24]

As far as how high you will get that celeron all depends. I've seen the 600's going over a gig as well. The celerons arent bad chips. I just believe you will get better overall performance from a PIII. Even a PIII 600 will get well over 900mhz most likely with that board. I ran my old PIII 600E @ 840mhz without even having to touch the vcore. And this was on a BX board. Imagine if I had a VIA, or 815 with the 1\2 AGP divider.

[Mr B]

Check out the thread "P///600@" by kristoffer..I posted my specs and a screenshot there...600E @ 954 MHz.

I think the "king" of intel chips at the moment, is the 700E. Read a lot of good results with those. The 600E/800EB does well, also. (same 6x multi)

For Celerons, take a look at what people have done with the 566 and 600's. I've had a pair of 600's, one did 945 @ 1.9v, the other made it all the way to 1053 @ 2.05v. Running this one at a reasonable vcore setting netted me 1017 @ 1.95v. Great overclockers, there.

A general rule of thumb is to go with the P/// "E" chips, 600 up, or Celerons from 566 to 633. The higher 667 , 700, and 733 have a hard time overclocking, as the multiplier is extremely high. There have been some promising results with the Celeron 800E (100 FSB, 8x multiplier) Lancelot in particular has done well with the 800E....

Take a look thru the Database on the front page here, that will give you a rough idea on what each chip is capable of.

Mr B

[bdf24]

Which ever you get I would not recommend going with anything higher then a 750mhz chip if you go with a PIII. I have an 800 and it's a real pain in the butt to overclock. I'm stuck at 1008 and cant go anymore. I'm looking to sell the board and cpu and cross over to AMD (I know don't shoot me!).

[batboy]

bdf24, the most noteable exception is the 1 gig CPU which is turning out to be the new overclocking king, especially the cD0 version. Mark my words.

[anvil]

batboy,

Is that 100 fsb or 133 fsb or both? Right now, Pricewatch only lists a single p3 1000, the 133 fsb I assume.

anvil

PS The p3 1 gig 133 fsb is just a premium 750e isn't it?

[samuknow]

I'm trying to get in under 100$. if I can. I saw a celeron 600 for about 55 and a slotket for about 20 on pricewatch. The pIII are a little high. What about slotkets????

[Mr B]

Sam (May 27, 2001 01:03 p.m.):
I'm trying to get in under 100$. if I can. I saw a celeron 600 for about 55 and a slotket for about 20 on pricewatch. The pIII are a little high. What about slotkets????

Avoid the Abit !!!, bad stability with these.

Soltek SL02A++, Iwill II, Asus II, MSI Master 2.0 are good ones to look for. You want it to be Coppermine compatable, and have plenty of vcore setting options. These do.

Mr B

[batboy]

I've been hearing more about the Abit slotkets not being the best, but I had one (version III) in my C566/BH6 rig for quite a long time and had excellent luck with it. Sam, if you're on a tight budget, you can't go wrong with the Celery 600.

Anvil, the only 1 gig P-III chip being produced since the cD0 stepping is the 133 FSB ones. Before that, there were a few 100 FSB chips around, but they are pretty rare. You almost never saw them for sale and I only heard of one or two people that owned one.

As of now, I think the only P-III chips that will be produced will be in the 866, 933, or 1000 flavors (all 133 MHz bus). If you guys want the 100 FSB chips, you better buy them now before the venders run out of stock.

[samuknow]

Is there a link to some info in the Celeron? I'm a little confused on the terminology. FC-PGA PPGA? ?

I see some of the 533 celerys are more expensive than the 600's. I think the 600 seems to be the best bang for the buck even after buying a slotket. I did see some PIII's for around 100$. Such as the PIII 700. (These are all on pricewatch by the by). Also saw a 600EB for about 85.

CELERON 433 PPGA OEM $42.00
CELERON 500 PPGA OEM $47.25
CELERON 533 PPGA OEM $78.50
CELERON 566 FCPGA OEM $74.50
CELERON 600 FCPGA OEM $53.55
CELERON 633 FCPGA OEM $53.55
CELERON 633 FCPGA Retail Box $63.00
CELERON 667 FCPGA OEM $55.65
CELERON 667 FCPGA Retail Box $64.05
CELERON 700 FCPGA OEM $60.90
CELERON 700 FCPGA Retail Box $69.30
CELERON 766 FCPGA Retail Boxed $86.10
CELERON 800 FCPGA Retail Boxed $99.75
Pentium® III 1GH EB (256K/133MHZ) FCPGA OEM $204.75
Pentium® III 650E(256K /100MHZ) SECC OEM $100.80
Pentium® III 667EB(256K /133MHZ) FCPGA OEM $108.15
Pentium® III 667EB(256K /133MHZ) SECC OEM $87.15
Pentium® III 700E (256K /100MHZ) FCPGA OEM $119.70
Pentium® III 700E (256K /100MHZ) FCPGA Retail Box $126.00
Pentium® III 700E (256K /100MHZ) SECC OEM $107.10


I want to pick up something soon but still have done some research on these cpu's .

I basically game and I would like a good oc candidate that will get me a decent oc and nice performance.

I know better cheaper faster. But really just looking for a good all around chip on a budget.

By the way, thank you all for your help. I can always count on you guys....

[batboy]

The PPGA chips are the first series Celerons, I'd avoid them. The FC-PGA (flip chip-pin grid array) coppermine chips are the ones you want. Be aware that OEM chips might have already been pretested and the best chips could of already sold.

[anvil]

batboy,

Do you know if anyone sells OEM as boxed retail chips?

I read a post on Anandtech where a guy had a SL4CF that is listed in the CPU section of Tips and Techniques as an OEM, but he says it came boxed with hsf. Or is the Tips and Techniques article just not up to date? (It was dated 11/22/00)

Just curious.

anvil

[anvil]

Follow up:

It was sold by Atacom, I believe, as a "750 with hsf and 3 year warranty." Did not say sealed Retail Box.

Live and learn. Caveat emptor.

anvil

[batboy]

I think the key here is "sealed retail box" because it really should be 100% factory sealed. Retail CPUs have the Intel HSF and a 3 year warranty.

[samuknow]

Well it appears to be a race between the PIII 700 E
and the Celery 600 FC-PGA. Looks like there is about a 30$ price difference after buying the slotket for the celery. Am I wrong in saying that the 600FC-PGA is the better oc'er and the 700 E is the better performer?

Oh decisions decisions.

I want to thank you all and especially batboy and Mr B. Once again the senior members to the rescue.

Mr B are you happy with your Celeron? Again looking at bang for the buck here.

[bdf24]

I'm not sure about that. That PIII 700E could very well get as high as that celeron 600. But the performance difference I think would be night and day difference like you said.

I would go for the 700 if I were you.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[anvil]

Follow up to the follow up:

Yet another post on Anandtech:

"My chip is also a SL4CF but it came in retail box w/ retail HSF. So either its not an OEM or intel has been shipping OEM chips in their 750 retail boxes."

??

anvil

[batboy]

Sam, sounds like you have a good plan. The 600 is one of the best Celerons for overclocking and the 700 is one of the best P-IIIs for overclocking. I'd spent the extra cash and get a P-III 700, you won't be sorry. I've had a C-566 and a P-III 700 and if both are overclocked to the same clock speed, the P-III will win almost all the benchmarks.

Anvil, it doen't surprise me that Intel is packaging what normally would be OEM chips into retail boxes because of supply and demand reasons. I would not be afraid of getting one. My point was that since OEM chips are not in sealed boxes, an immoral vender "might" pretest the batch and sell the cream of the crop for a premium price which "might" leave the rest as marginal chips that don't O/C as well.. In the past, retail boxed CPUs tended to have a higher percentage of overclocking ability. Maybe because of this reason?

[Mr B]

Exactly, Batboy.

Sam, the general rule of thumb to go by is that an overclocked Celeron is equal (roughly) to a P/// running about 200 MHz less. So, if you can get a C600 to run at 112 FSB (1008 MHz (1.01 GHz)), it will be roughly equal to a P/// 700 running at 800 MHz (115 FSB).

The P/// has the advantage due to the higher memory bandwidth from the higher bus speed, and it's superior L2 cache.

1008 is a good number to overclock that C600 to. A good percent will achieve 1 GHz. Not all, but quite a few. I think it's more than a safe bet that virtually ALL P/// 700E's will get to 800, most well past that. Let's say you get to 133 FSB (not unreasonable), you'd be running the P/// at 933 MHz. While the end number is lower than the C600 (1008 to 933), the P/// would blow the doors off of the C600 in the real world.

I've got that exact situation going on right here. Read my "sig". I've got a C600 that runs up to 1053, and a P/// 600E that runs to 954. The P/// is the far better chip, which is why I run it full time now, until I can get the $$ to build a 2nd rig around that C600.

This more than justifies the extra $30 for the P///, IMHO.

I'd go that route, if I were you. P/// 700E, hands down.

Mr B

[anvil]

I hear you, batboy!

I have seen Celerons sold out of a carton with absolutely no factory sealing. No question that they could be pretested rejects. Same would be true of any opened Retail Box. I just wanted to pass along the 2nd guy's story so folks know that the OEM classifications may not be entirely correct.

Another fellow did say that his understanding was that Intel sent the more marginal chips to companies building computers since they were more likely to have techs to catch the problems and that the retail box chips sold to consumers were chips more likely to perform to spec since those would come back to Intel staff if there was a problem.

Sounds reasonable, but I certainly don't know.

I did run quickly through the 750 Database again and noticed that there were now several cCO's in the database, but I believe every single one had an OEM stepping code (SL4CF). The SL4M9 (Retail) and SL4BZ (Slot 1) are not there at all.

anvil

[samuknow]

Well,
I guess we have a verdict. Thanks again to all.
Looks like I will shell out the extra $$$ and get the PIII 700 E. Next will be what to use for cooling, but that is a different subject altogether.

Thanks again guys.......

[batboy]

Sam, you might already know this, but the P-III SECC chips are slot 1 and the FC-PGA chips are socket 370. There are some advantages to getting the S370 P-III CPU and a slotket. I know, more bucks, but it'll give you more voltage selections and maybe run a tad cooler. Then if you upgrade your motherboard, you have the option to get a socket 370 one with all the nice features such as bus dividers etc.

[samuknow]

I have been looking at that option. I just received my Soyo 6VBA mobo. Slot 1 and it has a 1/2 AGP divider option. Plus 29 FSB settings. The only prob is the V settings. there is only a % setting with 10% the max. This may not be enough for a good oc. The slotket will allow me to get past this problem.

Thanks

[Mictlan]

If you buy a good sloket you have many diferent Vcore to select. For example, I have the Iwill II sloket and I can select the Vcore from 1.3V to 2.3 V or so. The only problem is thats is by a series of jumperes.

[samuknow]

Does the slotket v adjustment override the mobo v adjustment? Plus I am having a hard time finding a name brand or specs on a slotket. I'm assuming these things run about 20$.....

[Mictlan]

Yep, the sloket tells the mobo what Vcore it needs, so you can fool the mobo and give more or less power to your CPU

[Mr B]

Sam (May 28, 2001 06:08 p.m.):
Does the slotket v adjustment override the mobo v adjustment? Plus I am having a hard time finding a name brand or specs on a slotket. I'm assuming these things run about 20$.....

Um....

1) Yes.
2) Keep looking, you'll find one.
3) Yes. =)

Mr B

[Newbie_Doo]

bdf24 (May 28, 2001 07:39 a.m.):
I'm not sure about that. That PIII 700E could very well get as high as that celeron 600. But the performance difference I think would be night and day difference like you said.

I would go for the 700 if I were you.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

I don't know about night and day...maybe night and pre-dawn. Except for the framerate war in Quake3, I am not sure the average person could tell the performance difference between a Pentium3 and a Celeron2 running at the same speed. I can tell you that I cannot tell the performance difference between my Celeron2-600@945 and the same chip running @1008. Maybe if I was playing my games at 640x480 instead of 1200x1024 it might matter more. But for how I use my system, the difference is negligible.

Use what you can afford to buy.

(Boy, I probably stepped in it with this post, huh Brian?)

[Mr B]

Before I got the P///, Tim (our esteemed Moderator) said in a thread once, that once you move up from a C II to a P///, you won't want to go back. I have found out what he means by that.

I'd swear on a stack of MAXIMUM PC back issues THIS high (holds hand at desktop level), that I boot up a good deal faster, and apps load faster, etc... I've never timed it, but there is a bit of a difference.

I remember the first day I had it in the rig. I fired it up at 133 FSB (800 MHz). Now, mind you, I was used to a 1053 Celeron. After tweaking the vcore, etc.. in the BIOS, I let it fly. I remember the first thing I thought was, "HOLY COW, I'm on my desktop ALREADY?? (Soyo 6BA+III mb)

I can see a difference in my rig. Not a HUGE percentage, but a noticable one. The faster bus speed does indeed help out, as does the better L2.

Mr B

(No, Newbie Doo, don't see anything on the soles of your shoes...=) )

[Wunder]

Batboy!

http://208.55.28.22/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000873.html

Its the powerleap forum, they say 1 & 1.1 GHz P3s with 100 MHz FSB will be released...
Wonder how those will oc?

[samuknow]

I've been doing a great deal of article surfing lately. I does seem that a PIII does have an advantage over a Celeron, not much I add. As far as I can tell most games will only pick up a few frames with the PIII. The desktop apps is where this will shine. Again I'm going by what I have read. I still haven't ordered my cpu yet. Just wanting to make sure I have thoroughly looked at the comparison. (engineer you know). I'm still trying to stick at 100$. The PIII will send me a little over with a HSF. The celery will get me in under even with the slotket which gives me the added advantage of more V adjustments. My guess is that with the mobo I have (Soyo 6VBA 133B) I will get a higher % oc on the celeron, Just due to the fact I am limited to a 10% max V adjustment on my board. But will that give me better performance? I'm not really sure at this point. It would be pretty cool to get the 600 celeron to a gig. But whose to say I can't get the 700 E close to that. This is about the oc but oc is about performance. I'm still leaning to the PIII. Due to the fact of the higher bus speed and larger onboard cache. I appreciate all the help here and comments.

Thanks as always....

[Mictlan]

I also only have on the mobo a 5% and a 10% Vcore increase, but using the sloket you can set the base Vcore higher. What I'm doing is the following:

1.-With my current Vcore, I up the Vcore 5%.
2.-I try to raise my FSB.
3.-If that doesn't do the trick, then I up the Vcore to 10%.
4.-If it boot, I run a 3dmark loop test to test the system.
5.-If everything is OK, I change my default Vcore, and return the mobo jumper to normal.

About the PIII 1 GHz@100 MHz, you can see at the data bank that the 850 is a better chip than the 900 (both a 100MHz FSB). That makes me wonder if the 1GHz will be a good oc chip.

[samuknow]

I have one last question here. My mobo says that it supports PIII up to 933mhz. I'm assuming this means the coppermine processors?
DESCRIPTION
66/100/133MHz FSB Pentium® II/III processor Based ATX main board with AGP Port
PROCESSOR
Intel Pentium III processor (450~933 MHz)
Intel Pentium® II processor (233~450 MHz)
Intel Celeron Processor (266~566 MHz)
66MHz,100MHz & 133MHz FSB(Front Side Bus)
FRONT SIDE BUS OPTIONS
Available FSB options of 66/ 75/ 81/ 83/ 90/ 95/ 100/ 105/ 110/ 112/ 113/ 115/ 117/ 118/ 120/ 122/ 124/ 126/ 133/ 135/ 137/ 138/ 140/ 142/ 144/ 150/ 155MHz
AUTO PCI CLOCK
The PCI bus speed is automatically set between
30MHz and 41MHz regardless of FSB setting.
ADJUSTABLE CPU CORE VOLTAGE
CPU Core voltage may be increased in increments of 2.5%, 5%, 7.5%, and 10%.
CHIPSET
VIA Apollo PRO133 two chip AGPset

[e laursen]

Sam,

Keep in mind that if you run the PIII, and overclock, you SHOULD be running PC133. PC100 may make it to 133 and beyond, but that is an additional risk factor. Remeber that additional risks are multiplicative for your overall chances of success; limit your risks.

I have a retail cB0 c2600@901. It will go to 945+, but gets sketchy after 927. I like the chip, work great, I would still prefer a PIII700 for the additional cache and memory bandwidth.

[Newbie_Doo]

I am running the successor to your board (SY-6VCA). Rest assured that it will support speeds in excess of 1Ghz.

I am using a cB0 stepping Celeron2-600 on an Iwill SlocketII at 1.95V (set on the slocket, not on the board). 945 is granite stable, 981 is 97% stable, and 1008 is 90% stable (voltage, not thermal issues). I am still below the max voltage spec and Mr.B hasn't convinced me yet because I am a little conservative for an overclocker.

Maybe when the backup board arrives from service.....(hello, tech support?)

[samuknow]

I did pick up a stick of pc 133 SDRAM.

I am pretty pumped about getting this together.

Thanks for all your help guys. ....I'll let you know how it turns out...