Tom attacks AMD openly?

[chasingapple]

check it out, cant believe I just read this!

LINKAGE (http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20040218/scenario-01.html)

[dead_man311]

its more like Toms a joke, i dont even listen to many reveiws site. i mainly go off of oc. lease i know here people wont stear me wrong

[tfr2087]

what a bigot. pfft, does anyone really even care about 64bit extensions right now? its the ownage in 32bit apps that make the A64 good today.

[HungryForHertz]

Thats disgraceful. Damn I thought that was a good site. Bunch of bias gits. AMD in April will begin to thrive and Intel have admitted AMD are taking the better road. If as Tom's is pretty much saying 32 bit is better and 64 is unnecessary then why is Intel going to change over early:rolleyes: ? Thery by no means have to if their processors are better.

What asses. That really is a disgusting article.:mad: :temper:

[tfr2087]

as if $#@ing with the latencies of AMD procs vs P4's wasn't bad enough, now the ass is being explicit.

[Silent Buddha]

Good thing I haven't been to Tomshardware in years...

[BartonBadBoy]

...cojones and react positively, or retreat into the twilight world of their fan base, and embrace the very people who have the least influence on their future.

thanx a lot tom

If the company reverts to its usual act of self-pity at having to directly compete with Intel, it will get beaten up easily. If the company decides to do the whole bang for buck argument and go against Intel on the basis of its lower cost chips then, it will just be back to where it was at the tail end of 2002. Not good.

would you mind elaborating tom???

Intel can now dictate the pace, and maybe, here's the clincher, kill the market for everyone. Anyone consider that Intel's move is not a validation, but maybe the beginning of the end?

I'll have an ounce of what that guy is smoking thanx

w$%^&r

[Jex]

What a jerk! I bet he will lose quite a bit of his reader base due to this smug stunt.

[Silent Buddha]

Most of Tom's reader base aren't really computer enthusiasts. Most their readers are just everyday computer users (albeit who aren't exactly computer illiterate either) who go there for the occasional printer round-up :burn:

[glock19owner]

Originally posted by Jex
What a jerk! I bet he will lose quite a bit of his reader base due to this smug stunt.

Probably not since most of his "fans" are stuck up his ass anyways...

[HungryForHertz]

Originally posted by Jex
What a jerk! I bet he will lose quite a bit of his reader base due to this smug stunt.

Probably a majority if people feel like I do.

[Molester]

glad i don't use tomshardware for anything, just some Intel fanboy jeleous that amd made 64-bit processing mainstream before intel

simple as that

what's funny is that no-one ever mentions the fact the intel's base money maker are idiots buying oem computers from dell/compaq/gateway/etc..., you know, mindless fools w/ zero knowledge about computers

don't get me wrong, intel chips are very good, but as we know, you can spend a helluva lot less w/ amd, and push it further than the EE(at stock of course)

plus you'll have fun doing it, meet a bunch of freaks at oc-forums.com, learn alot, and save cash

[obsolete]

WOW, thats just down right offensive & rude.

There is nothing finer than raising the hackles of delusional AMD lovers. However, today I do so with a heavy heart. This is no time to take aim at the pompous, self-righteous head-in-the-sand-ostriches of the alternative chip lifestyle. One must embrace them, hug them and wipe away their tears. I don't hate one CPU vs the other. I just prefer AMD. Not because of money or anything, (trust me I waste plenty on PC's) BUT that statement is down right offensive & just plain asking for a fight? Not something I would expect out of TH. I have went there less & less, somethings I found interesting here & there. But.......Now, I will never go there. Not because they dissed AMD, but because they dissed me for using AMD basically.

[Rilian]

Couldn't agree more infact Tomshardware has often shown its outdated intelligence as far as comps are concerned. The only thing that its good for these days is comparing AMD k6-2s to the P2. and by the way AMD was first to 100fsb, go underdog go.

[sixshot666]

Originally posted by BartonBadBoy

I'll have an ounce of what that guy is smoking thanx

w$%^&r
no he's not.
he's gotta be hitting the pipe hardcore.
i wander how many intel tattoos hes got?

[Rilian]

I know its not a case of AMD Vs Intel but I look at it this way, I have the choice of 2 horses for my wagon 1 horse is speedy but oftentimes lags under heavy workload the other horse is a gigantic monster of a horse, even though he doesnt have much getup he can shoulder 150% of the load... so even if his legs are cutoff he can still handle a good load. So which am I gonna pick? a speedy horse or a gigantic beast of a horse.... gimme the beast! the beast!

[glock19owner]

One must embrace them, hug them and wipe away their tears.

I didnt catch that earlier...the only thing I can say about that is...I have something for him to wipe...http://www.theforumisdown.com/uploadfiles/1203/moon.gif

[Silent Buddha]

Originally posted by glock19owner
http://www.theforumisdown.com/uploadfiles/1203/moon.gif

Trying to recover from laughing heart attack...:D

[spazzmattah]

Typical Tommy boy's propaganda. But this time he exposes his true stupidity. On second thoughts, maybe he's not too stupid if Intel pays him good.

[obsolete]

LLOOL @ glock

[BartonBadBoy]

There is nothing finer than raising the hackles of delusional AMD lovers. However, today I do so with a heavy heart. This is no time to take aim at the pompous, self-righteous head-in-the-sand-ostriches of the alternative chip lifestyle. One must embrace them, hug them and wipe away their tears.

i missed it as well, and i reiterate

w£$%^r, of the highest order

wtf gives him the right to bang on like that exactly???? doesnt he realise that coming out with bs liken that makes him look a right **** in the eyes of inhell and amd owners???

he wants a ******* good wedgie that guy like

[necromanx13x]

They are the freaks of low-cost computing, the poor, downtrodden users of products that never seem to be able to match PR numbers to actual performance, now almost beaten into marginality for all time. Of course, they won't admit this. They will howl at the moon, scream obscenities at nice, unassuming columnists with no axe to grind, and most of all, they will say:

"Hah! We are proven right! Intel is copying our beloved god of impecuniosities. Intel has succumbed. Intel admits we are superior. We are right. We have always been right. We is winners. We will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!"

What the hell is up with that? Man, what a prick.

[tfr2087]

meet a bunch of freaks at oc-forums.com

LOL

[HungryForHertz]

Originally posted by Molester
glad i don't use tomshardware for anything, just some Intel fanboy jeleous that amd made 64-bit processing mainstream before intel

simple as that

what's funny is that no-one ever mentions the fact the intel's base money maker are idiots buying oem computers from dell/compaq/gateway/etc..., you know, mindless fools w/ zero knowledge about computers

don't get me wrong, intel chips are very good, but as we know, you can spend a helluva lot less w/ amd, and push it further than the EE(at stock of course)

plus you'll have fun doing it, meet a bunch of freaks at oc-forums.com, learn alot, and save cash

Exactly. Why do you think there are more posts in the AMD section of the CPU forum? Because knowledgeble people here, in their majority have AMDs. What does that tell you?

Intel is just advertised a hell of alot more than AMD.

[BartonBadBoy]

I AM A FREAK OF LOW COST COMPUTING

CHEEKY *******

wtf is his problem??? is he upset cos his rig cost twice as much as a lot of people's here, and no faster do you think?????

scream obscenities at nice, unassuming columnists with no axe to grind,

EXCUSE ME???? NO AXE TO GRIND???? ARE YOU HAVING ME ON OR WHAT TOM???? YOU NEED A GOOD LONG TALK WITH YOURSELF MATE, BEFORE YOU TYPE OWT ELSE

[BartonBadBoy]

THIS THREAD SOULD BE RENAMED "TOM OPENLY ATTACKS AMD USERS PERSONALLY"

im getting more and more irate the more i think about it

[obsolete]

Yeah sorry my cut & paste functionality seems to be low on INTEL POWER, as that is what I'm using here at work. (I left out a few sentences out of the article).

Intel crack was just a joke!! I'm neither AMD Bias or Intel Bias. (just thought it would fit in with this conversation) :argue:

[theflyingrat]

I don't understand why anyone is freaking about Omid Rahmat (who has run on with silly rants like this before) writing an "offensive" article about AMD users.

Grow some skin, people. So he likes running his mouth about AMD users. Woah, mind-blowing.... *groan* Blow him off and don't think twice about it - let his argument die on its own lack of merit. And have fun with your Athlons, for chrissakes!

[obsolete]

Just surprising that is all. I'm sure most realize it is a matter of opinion. Basically it would be like Newegg posting on their website. AMD'S SUCK, WE NO LONGER SELL THEM, INTEL OWNS AMD!!! Would you not be taken back by that?

Just a well respected place people goto & they make offensive comments..........Dunno, just unexpected.

[Captain Newbie]

Wow...I used to simply turn the other cheek at THG's anti-AMDness.

Now however, it is time to take up arms.

For the record:

I find (found) THG's reviews to be *MOSTLY* well crafted, and scientifically conducted. I do want to applaud their accurate and scientific approach, but this is over the line.

Congratulations THG, you are now on my **** list.

[#18]

Didn't finish reading. Well this article is funny.

Tom must be getting tons of fund from Intel.(I thought Nvidia "donate" him as well) And he is mad about Microsoft never pay attention on him. Linux is 64bit too right?

Another misunderstanding of the example he used - "like the great arms race of the 80s, which ultimately resulted in the Soviet Union bankrupting itself trying to keep up with Ronald Reagan's America."

It is one wide spread false news.(started by the US tried to scare people not to go against all powerful itself, or you'll be bankrupt on your own.) Soviet had great economy before they broke up into pieces. They went bankrupt AFTER the political reform. Their society couldn't keep up with the big change since it was socialism for so long. They would never go backrupt if they remain socialism.

[99'erForever]

Does he remember the Intel 386 which did not have any software to take advantage of it for 10 years? I do not think Win95 was beta back in 1986. Perhaps Tom cannot think clearly due to the lack of oxygen to his brain because his mouth is stuffed with money.

[BartonBadBoy]

Grow some skin, people. So he likes running his mouth about AMD users. Woah, mind-blowing.... *groan* Blow him off and don't think twice about it - let his argument die on its own lack of merit. And have fun with your Athlons, for chrissakes!

my skin is thick, and i dont mind people prefering inhell over amd, thats there choice, but i object to a writer on a well respected website making personal slants about amd USER'S

theres a difference between attacking a company and attacking the people who use its products. He's bang out of order and its inexcusable.........simple as that.

he wants stabbing

[felinusz]

They are the freaks of low-cost computing, the poor, downtrodden users of products that never seem to be able to match PR numbers to actual performance, now almost beaten into marginality for all time. Of course, they won't admit this. They will howl at the moon, scream obscenities at nice, unassuming columnists with no axe to grind, and most of all, they will say:

"Hah! We are proven right! Intel is copying our beloved god of impecuniosities. Intel has succumbed. Intel admits we are superior. We are right. We have always been right. We is winners. We will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!"

A uninformed, outdated, and self-centered columnist wrote this article. "The poor downtrodded" users of hardware that never sems "to be able to match PR numbers" happen to have some of the fastest computers in the world.

Who's howling at the moon here?

impecuniosities

The people who frequent Tom's, and rely on it for information don't know anything about computers, but they ARE easily impressed by big words.

[chasingapple]

Originally posted by BartonBadBoy


but i object to a writer on a well respected website making personal slants about amd USER'S

Well respected is a bit much mate :)


he wants stabbing

I agree.

I once in awhile check over at THQ for thier reviews, not for Toms opinion but for the facts of the hardware and his approach to scientific data. This one kinda caught me blindside. Im not sure to actually take it as an insult, honestly he sounds like hes mad and having a temper tantrom. I honestly believe my 18 month old daughter is better mannored then Tom. Tom or (Omid Rahmat), if you do happen to come over here to view the carnage listen up, hate AMD all you want thats fine....but I think in a matter of professionalism you should keep your baby like comments about the fans to yourself. You sound like a spoiled brat.

[Nick Burns]

Why is everyone so suprices by this? It has long been known that he is biased towards Nvidia and Intel. People buying Dells just want to be able to go to his site and see that they bought the right system because some jackass gets money to say that Intel rules. I wish AMD would launch another huge advertising campaign like they did when they first launch A64. They should make something spoofing the old 1984 Apple commercial. That would get people's attention.

[Perre]

What an a$$.

Doesn't matter which "base" he belongs to, you do not behave like that period.

[theELVISCERATOR]

you amd guys are a bit thin skinned, its just a chip.....both have pros and cons....

amd is cheaper....
intel more reliable across the board with hw and software in my opinion.....and speeds are close enough to be negligible in real world apps....

[#18]

Originally posted by theELVISCERATOR
you amd guys are a bit thin skinned, its just a chip.....both have pros and cons....

amd is cheaper....
intel more reliable across the board with hw and software in my opinion.....and speeds are close enough to be negligible in real world apps....


Is your name Tom?

[theELVISCERATOR]

is your name Dick?

why you trying to start a flame session?

[Steven4563]

TOM always chats sh** now thats gave me another reason to hate him

Burn him in hell :mad::mad:

[caboob]

LOL..a flame session being started in an AMD forum between two Intel users...

[Steven4563]

LOL :p Great Forums :D

[felinusz]

you amd guys are a bit thin skinned, its just a chip.....both have pros and cons....

amd is cheaper....
intel more reliable across the board with hw and software in my opinion.....and speeds are close enough to be negligible in real world apps....

No one is declaring jihad against the author. No one is screaming, bawling, or having a temper tantrum. We're all just expressing our opinions on this. Imagine what it would be like if this was published, and no one said *anything*!!?? What would that say about all of us?

is your name Dick?

why you trying to start a flame session?

Calm down. I think you should edit your post.

[#18]

Originally posted by theELVISCERATOR
is your name Dick?

why you trying to start a flame session?

Is it a bad thing to be Tom?

Look at your last post, you are flaming AMD users. Just because you love your computer, does not make yours the best in the world. Not to mention AMD users' skin are much thicker than you said.


Originally posted by caboob
LOL..a flame session being started in an AMD forum between two Intel users...

I have both Intel and AMD powered systems. The one in my sig is my main computer which I always try to keep it the latest. It was last upgraded 8 months ago, and it is slowly being outperformed. I am no fan of anybody. Smart people should stay with the truth instead of being a slave of anyone. Time changes the truth. My next upgrade to my main system will be a socket 939 Athlon 64 chip if Intel won't come up with something impressive soon.

[ZachM]

Originally posted by theELVISCERATOR
its just a chip.....both have pros and cons....

I and I am sure many other people here agree on that. The reason people are angry is because he is making personal attacks on a huge group of people. I could care less what he says about the processors.

Anyways. I did think the PSU reviews were good on that site, but now I'm done with that site totally. This guy should be mature enough to keep this rant to himself, or at least not publish it on-line.

On another note, he talked about how a 64 bit processor is useless because 32 is working out just fine for people. The fact is manufacturers are reaching limits on the clock speeds of processors, so they must increase speed another way. Going from 32 to 64 bit is a good step.

[Steven4563]

i think AMD should get there law suits on :p and punish that intel fanboy lol

[Yuriman]

Hehe, toms gonna get a REAL dirty email.

[Yuriman]

http://www.tomshardware.com/site/submission/feedback.html

[Yuriman]

I sent about 20 copies of my dirty email.

[BGPatterson]

Originally posted by obsolete
WOW, thats just down right offensive & rude.

I don't hate one CPU vs the other. I just prefer AMD. Not because of money or anything, (trust me I waste plenty on PC's) BUT that statement is down right offensive & just plain asking for a fight? Not something I would expect out of TH. I have went there less & less, somethings I found interesting here & there. But.......Now, I will never go there. Not because they dissed AMD, but because they dissed me for using AMD basically.

I use AMD because their processors are cheaper and also take well to overclocking. The way he [thg] worded that was retarded.

[#18]

Originally posted by BGPatterson


I use AMD because their processors are cheaper and also take well to overclocking. The way he [thg] worded that was retarded.

Stop saying that already lol.

This is the reason why those Intel fan boys and girls keep picking on AMD users, and saying AMD users are cheap or thin skinned.

AMD = cheap? It's not true. Just because you picked a cheap AMD chip, does not make AMD the symbol of cheap. Their Athlon 64 and FX chips just cost as much as Intel's Northwood C and EE processors. The fact is AMD provide better chips at same or lower prices. It is pointing at AMD's "low-end" and middle range chips. They are good chips, almost perform as good as Intel's high-end chips, but at much lower cost.

Well I doubt the most Intel fans are any richer than AMD users. Otherwise why not all of them have the latest Intel chips? Lots of them equiped with P4 Northwood chips 2.4C ~ 2.8C while having Ti4200 ~ Radeon 9600(sometimes even an all powerful FX5200). Compare to the AMD users who have 2500+ with 9800Pro, who is smarter?
I am trying to say to the Intel fans, if you think your skin isn't as "thin" as AMD users, try to get everything the "better" one. Not only the CPU. Else you are not much different in skin matter. :p

[Silent Buddha]

Tom has credible reviews...printer roundups that is :p

[billobob0]

Honestly, why does anyone care about some editorial posted buy a guy at Tom's Hardware? Its not like our beloved Ed is the epitome of god-like judgement either, I personally can't stand his columns/writing style, but I don't boycott the site because if it. If there is any reason to be ****ed at Tom's, it should be because of some of the stupid things they have done in a few of their benchmarks.

By the way -- the Soviet economy was great? You mean to tell me that Stalinist Russia was the pinnacle of equal distribution, middle class comfort?

[Silent Buddha]

Originally posted by billobob0
By the way -- the Soviet economy was great? You mean to tell me that Stalinist Russia was the pinnacle of equal distribution, middle class comfort?

Equal distribution and middle class comfort does not necessarily mean a great economy. Just because it is present in the US doesn't mean anything. The USSR had a great economy because it was head-on with the U.S. in the arms race and had huge industrial capacity. Sure, only the elite benefited but the economy was an industrial monster nonetheless.

[Mr.Rotory]

What a bunch of crap! I AM RUSSIAN, WAS BORN AND RAISED RUSSIAN, AND RUSSIA DIDNT FALL BECAUSE OF THE ARMS RACE! Russia fell because our whole government was corrupted, life in Russia went along the lines of if your communist then your rich and if your a worker your dirt poor, people that were part of the communist party were cheaters who thrived on the hard working people, they had their own high class school their own supermarkets, hairdressers, apartments, even cities. That stupid erragant **** needs to take a history class, maybe he can start by reading Animal Farm, then he will get a good a idea, but to compare it to Intel vs AMD is ludacris, it is in no way, shape or form relavant. I feel like something should be done, a boycott of some sort of tomshardware, something that would let them know, this type of arragance is too far and is not acceptable.

[#18]

What I learned is they were #2 right after the US. They were at the point of every family had a car at their peak time. Not necessarily like the US almost everybody has a car. It was true their industry didn't focused on heavy industry, but it's ok since they could trade for every day consumer goods with other countries. Anyway it's offtopic.

[Sterculus]

I couldn't care less what Tom says about anything anymore. He's been so obviously bought out by Intel that all the articles on the subject are useless. I have AMD and Intel rigs, and I like them both. Both platforms have pros and cons. I chose my 1700+ because of its low price and great overclockability. However I could have gone with a 2.4C, for a little more money, and probably have gotten a little more performance. THG reminds me of the Mac zealots. Get over it people(Intel fanboys, AMD fanboys, Mac zealots), they are all good computers.

[#18]

Originally posted by Mr.Rotory
What a bunch of crap! I AM RUSSIAN, WAS BORN AND RAISED RUSSIAN, AND RUSSIA DIDNT FALL BECAUSE OF THE ARMS RACE! Russia fell because our whole government was corrupted, life in Russia went along the lines of if your communist then your rich and if your a worker your dirt poor, people that were part of the communist party were cheaters who thrived on the hard working people, they had their own high class school their own supermarkets, hairdressers, apartments, even cities. That stupid erragant **** needs to take a history class, maybe he can start by reading Animal Farm, then he will get a good a idea, but to compare it to Intel vs AMD is ludacris, it is in no way, shape or form relavant. I feel like something should be done, a boycott of some sort of tomshardware, something that would let them know, this type of arragance is too far and is not acceptable.

How old were you when you left your country? And where are you now? It's still easy to input the new information into someone who is still young. In some case even you are old. I've learned it myself the hard way. The media include text books in the US is pretty much just like Tom's Hardware while involve the politics.

Anyway we are talking something not related to the topic. PM me if you'd like to talk more about it.

[johan851]

theELVISCERATOR and #18 - no one's going to win, this is a forum. Let's drop anything that looks like the start of a flamewar, stop poking at each other, and just let it go. There's no need whatsoever to beat the already dead topic of AMD vs. Intel - we all know how it breaks down. No one has a 'better' processor, we just have different processors. That's all there is to it.

you amd guys are a bit thin skinned, its just a chip.....both have pros and cons....
That's quite correct. I think the problem with Tom's article is that he's not attacking the chips themselves. That's easy enough to let go. This time, however, he's attacking the character of AMD as a company, and the character of AMD's users. That's where I think this article just goes over the line. He always has these almost childish accusations, personifying AMD as this pathetic little being always being shown up by Intel.

Also, 64-bit desktop technology is a significant breakthrough in processor evolution. Sure, there might not be immediate benefits to the 64-bit nature of the chip alone, but the Athlon64's and FX's are great performers in the 32-bit world as well. Again, it's not a chip contest that Tom's starting - he's decided to bash the nature of AMD and AMD's users.

In summary...yes, he's an absolute tard. Who didn't know that? At least this is another hilarious example for us to laugh at Tom's Hardware over. *Shrug* Whatever...

[#18]

Originally posted by johan851
theELVISCERATOR and #18 - no one's going to win, this is a forum. Let's drop anything that looks like the start of a flamewar, stop poking at each other, and just let it go. There's no need whatsoever to beat the already dead topic of AMD vs. Intel - we all know how it breaks down. No one has a 'better' processor, we just have different processors. That's all there is to it.




Sometimes you need to learn, just because someone said I am flaming doesn't make me flamed someone.

My mistake didn't add :) ;) :p :D behind "Is your name Tom?".

I was simply disagree his statement and made a joke.

What he replied was pretty immature "too clear" real flaming.

[uvaman]

THing is , if inted had announced x86-64 and released it one sept 2003
none of the " is 64bit necessary?" articles would exist
There will be articles more in the line of "why buy AMD processors, they are just 32bit only, sure they have some edge due to HT and the on chip mem controller, but with Intel you are ready for the future of computers and thats 64bit.. the much needed 64bits"

[Quailane]

there are many an awful lot of slackers and socialists who seem to back AMD despite any of its capitalist shortcomings

Vladimir Lenin is chuckling in his grave.

[#18]

Originally posted by uvaman
THing is , if inted had announced x86-64 and released it one sept 2003
none of the " is 64bit necessary?" articles would exist
There will be articles more in the line of "why buy AMD processors, they are just 32bit only, sure they have some edge due to HT and the on chip mem controller, but with Intel you are ready for the future of computers and thats 64bit.. the much needed 64bits"

Probably. The point is people really should just admit the truth that AMD own the advantage in high-end processors at this time, instead of trying to covering the truth by pump up strange excuses. The truth was Intel had the fastest high-end chips for the last several years until AMD released 64bit chips just a few months ago. Things may change, Intel may switch place with AMD of own the fastest chip again. Who knows.

[johan851]

#18 - Someone stated that this was beginning to look like a flamewar. I said to stop any elements of that before one began. I never said anyone was flaming anyone.Sometimes you need to learn, just because someone said I am flaming doesn't make me flamed someone.
It's comments like that one, and this one...
What he replied was pretty immature "too clear" real flaming.
That start flame wars. Like I said, my friend, just forget it ever happened.

Interesting point uvaman...there could be a lot of truth to that. But most of this is just Tom feeling the need to insult AMD, or something...sigh. Silly Tom.

[Quailane]

AMD will fail like the Soviet Union failed! Intel has succeeded like the US has! I can't get over Tom's metaphors!!!!!

This is the kind of merciless backtracking that makes one love the monopolists.

This dude is evil.......
:mad:

[#18]

Originally posted by johan851
#18 - Someone stated that this was beginning to look like a flamewar. I said to stop any elements of that before one began. I never said anyone was flaming anyone.
It's comments like that one, and this one...

That start flame wars. Like I said, my friend, just forget it ever happened.

Interesting point uvaman...there could be a lot of truth to that. But most of this is just Tom feeling the need to insult AMD, or something...sigh. Silly Tom.

I need to learn sometimes I can't be too honest.

Like I said, "Is your name Tom?" was my statement which was claimed to be "flaming". I have explained it was a joke. Any other my REPLY was to explain to you who think I was flaming about what really happened. My explaination was too honest. Which part I said wasn't true? Next time I'll "lie". Hope it will make you happier.

btw, I am willing to stop about this "flaming" matter. Please don't continue. Send me PM if you have something to say.

[Mr.Rotory]

Originally posted by johan851
#18 - Someone stated that this was beginning to look like a flamewar. I said to stop any elements of that before one began. I never said anyone was flaming anyone.
It's comments like that one, and this one...

That start flame wars. Like I said, my friend, just forget it ever happened.

Interesting point uvaman...there could be a lot of truth to that. But most of this is just Tom feeling the need to insult AMD, or something...sigh. Silly Tom.

Agreed I say this should be more of a unity between Intel/AMD I'm sure that neither would wanna be on the other end. Its not Intel vs AMD its Computers users who dont like being ripped off and therefore research what to buy, the only reason we argue is because someone thinks that one buy is better then another. We are consumers and as a consumer I can thank AMD for atleast one thing, bringing down outrages Intel prices, I for one dont care Intel, AMD, Mac. I want a fair deal, I want a computer to preform, and most of all I dont wanna go back to the days of slow ass computer progress and prices of $3000 +, I would hate AMD if 3000+ was the price instead of the PR rating.
I think Tom is attacking just that, I'm sure that some type of big investor are paying them off, because they are the only people that benefit from a slow moving tech world thats overpriced. And thats why I think we should attack Tom, regardless of weather you like Mac, AMD or Intel.

[Arkangyl]

That has to be one of the most retarded, ill-thought out articles that I've ever read...

The USSR vs. US metaphore was total BS; AMD = Communist? WTF? that doesn't even make sense...

maybe they mean that like the Cold War the COMPETITION betweem the two makes both better.

The sad part is even Tom's skewed benchmarks show that the A64 is at the top of the pack (for the most part).

[#18]

Originally posted by Arkangyl
AMD = Communist? WTF? that doesn't even make sense...




lol, not until AMD turns into a non-profit organization that give out chips for free.

[Sterculus]

I'll have a couple dozen FX chips please :D

[BGPatterson]

Originally posted by #18


Stop saying that already lol.

This is the reason why those Intel fan boys and girls keep picking on AMD users, and saying AMD users are cheap or thin skinned.

AMD = cheap? It's not true. Just because you picked a cheap AMD chip, does not make AMD the symbol of cheap. Their Athlon 64 and FX chips just cost as much as Intel's Northwood C and EE processors. The fact is AMD provide better chips at same or lower prices. It is pointing at AMD's "low-end" and middle range chips. They are good chips, almost perform as good as Intel's high-end chips, but at much lower cost.

Well I doubt the most Intel fans are any richer than AMD users. Otherwise why not all of them have the latest Intel chips? Lots of them equiped with P4 Northwood chips 2.4C ~ 2.8C while having Ti4200 ~ Radeon 9600(sometimes even an all powerful FX5200). Compare to the AMD users who have 2500+ with 9800Pro, who is smarter?
I am trying to say to the Intel fans, if you think your skin isn't as "thin" as AMD users, try to get everything the "better" one. Not only the CPU. Else you are not much different in skin matter. :p

ok, maybe my wording was off. I meant that the price/performance ratio is better. I am sure the people reading this know what i mean. I said "cheap" in a dollars-cost sort of sense. I am not a fanboy of either brand of chip, because both have their strongpoints. they are both good chips.

[hrhrhrFOOT]

I bet tom is laughing at everyone now. He's stirred up trouble while raking in the dough. The only way we can shut him up is if we slow his traffic to a crawl. If only we could do that....

[mrneed]

well toms getting the flow from intel 4 sure,but we all luv a good laugh at toms inabilty to write a fact base article,but he likes to stir the pot.funny toms mother luvs a good laugh too,but i think she has the intel tattoos on her butt.they just rubbed off on poor little tom heheheh.(a little pay from an AMD FREAK!!!!!)

[Silent Buddha]

I was wondering if there actually is a guy named Tom who started Tomshardware or is that another lie that they spread?

[johan851]

toms mother luvs a good laugh too,but i think she has the intel tattoos on her butt
I can personally confirm that there are indeed Intel tattoos on his mother's butt. Unfortunately, (well, not for me, but for your theory) my testing has revealed that they're on there pretty well. No rubbing off to speak of. :p

Yes, I went "there."

[mrneed]

ill talk to toms mom tuesday, ill find the truth. feel like im in tomsworld now!!hey scully the truth is out there.all joking aside we luv u tom,man can that guy write.i think george bush jr. needs a writer like u,full of the truth!!!.hugs n kisses to all.

[Mr.Rotory]

It seems that it was all a big joke by tomshardware, hmm, all along he had us fooled, oh that tom! what a joker. This is what he responded to my email with.

[theELVISCERATOR]

I have been around computers a long time since the 8088s and have seen the myriad issues surrounding amd products, amd specific patches required, I have built amd systems and intel.
Maybe it was just me but amd seemed to be a lot more trouble to set up for a stable system...Amd has greatly improved in recent years though, Competition is a GOOD THING.

Dont even get me started on the thermal protection issue either..

Now it seems the article was a joke all the way...LOL.......yolks on you....

[uvaman]

Originally posted by theELVISCERATOR
I have been around computers a long time since the 8088s and have seen the myriad issues surrounding amd products, amd specific patches required, I have built amd systems and intel.
Maybe it was just me but amd seemed to be a lot more trouble to set up for a stable system...Amd has greatly improved in recent years though, Competition is a GOOD THING.

Dont even get me started on the thermal protection issue either..

Now it seems the article was a joke all the way...LOL.......yolks on you....

Its funny.... I go back only since 486's (so not nearly as long as you) Only 2 intel system out of 7 if I remember correctly I have used (the 486 was AMD Intel Clone) The celeron was the worst system I had in my life, followed by a Via KT133 with duron processor, in third comes again a PIII 500 system.. the best system I had so far was an asus p5a with a k62 400.

I think that alot of the stability issues can be traced back to the mobos... at least the PIII which is a great chip, and was fast too, was coupled with a soyo mobo.. the celeron well was one of the first celerons and that was crap. the Via KT133 turned out to be crap too so much crap I never touched via since then.

It also depends were you live, not so long ago we had here a piracy problem, yeah that Asus mobo could turn out to be made by a knock off company.. I know from a post from an australian guy that said that 1 out of 4 AMD mobos were dead, and the sytem in general were a disaster that wasnt so long ago, maybe 2-3years.. I bet that they were flooded with piracy products because it just isnt like that with AMD.. i never had a doa cpu, I did have a doa leadtek (?not sure) mobo well got what I paid for got greedy I guess.

[johan851]

Yeah, both chips have usually been good. Earlier AMD motherboards had more issues than early Intel motherboards, I'm sure.

As for it all being a joke...eh. I dunno. I have trouble believing that it was. If it WAS a joke though, then it wasn't terrifically funny. I don't mean that in a "it hurt my feelings" way, but more of a "oh...I get it, that was supposed to be funny...*yawn* :o" way. I recall an editorial and/or some April Fool's stuff being funny, but this article doesn't really seem to fit the bill.

[Silent Buddha]

Am I missing something or is April Fool's like two months away?

[PingSpike]

Who is suppose to find that funny?

[Sentential]

I wonder if Intel paid him to do that article. April fools or not, most pplz are too stupid to realize that its a joke!

These are the same pplz that judge a PC by its frequency.

Personally IF they wanted to be funny why didnt they flame (litererly) Prescott :D

We all know they're fanboys of Intel. It woulda been much more dramatic if they praised AMD. I know most us OCers woulda **** a brick if they did!!

[Sir Barton]

from the way that story sounded to me, it looks like our friend tom may have stopped taking his ritalin.

[mrneed]

tom got scared the great AMD God would strike him down now thats funny seeing tom blown to bits.kind of like kenny on south park ever week tom get killed a differnt way ever week.toms humor may not be what we want to hear,but i feel if he backs what he writes up i would respect that.even if dont agree with his opions,funny he didnt start the article with this is a joke and why dont do the same to intel if it is so funny.i guess the pay checks would stop coming from intel huh tom?

[Captain Newbie]

Originally posted by Steven4563
LOL :p Great Forums :D

They indeed are, aren't they?


Personally IF they wanted to be funny why didnt they flame (litererly) Prescott

Dude, even THG IMPLIES that Prescott is nothing more than a pile of sh*t. They leave the inference to us to infer that, which some of us can and do. The difference between THG's judgement of AMD and Intel mostly is that the high-sounding bombastic language is saved for flaming the arse off of AMD; while the nice, kind "well it's not bad but it definitely could be better (after all it does benchmark lower than existing P4's)" is reserved for Intel. Prescott is a mistake.

Curiouser and curiouser.

-n00b

[BartonBadBoy]

but i feel if he backs what he writes up i would respect that

if he backed up attacks on AMD only then yeah, i could live with that, i could just say "that is one biased mofo right there".........but some of you seem to be missing the point, he didnt just attack amd, he attacked every "freak" that buys its products, and i for one would love to see him come to my door trying to back that up cos id put him flat on his dumb ****........

that rant was unjustified, out of order, and inexcusable..............and as for him saying it was a joke, bs, he just crapped it cos he knows he's talking **** and someone pulled him up on it

[futura2001]

Why is everybody angry at tom?
Who cares if tom hates AMD processors?
I like AMD and so does pretty much everyone replying to this thread, but who cares if Tom is bashing AMD for the 500th time?
It's like like he's saying your mom is fat or something! It's just a computer. If tom came out tommorrow and said that AMD is the greatest, it wouldn't change a damn thing! Your computer will not become more or less of a piece of sh%$ due to Tom. If you are happy with what you own, good. End of story.
Here's a really good idea: if you don't like what tom has to say, don't read it. Did anyone force you to read it?
Tom and his fanbase can go live in their little bizzaro-world where AMD processors are significantly inferior to Intel processors, but leave it be.
Instead of b*$@#ing and whining about how Tom is so bad for putting out such lies to "unsuspecting readers" with his website, why don't you start your own truthful site?
Everyone wants to yell at tom and complain, but nobody wants to do anything about it.

[Silent Buddha]

We are angry because Tomshardware is personally attacking AMD users. They have used all kinds of sinister language to bring down AMD processors before but this is probably the first time they have openly attacked AMD users. Plus, believe it or not, many people read Tomshardware. Although they are mainly the Dell and Gateway OEM type buying people, they read Tomshardware faithfully. Now what will they think of AMD now that Tomshardware spews all this crap about AMD? They will not want to buy AMD. With this many lies, AMD cannot hope to gain marketshare.

[OC Detective]

The bottom line guys is that the S word sells, in this instance it is not sex but sensationalism. Be honest how many of you went over to the site from this thread already spoiling for a fight!? Its all money in the bank for Tom with all the hits he is getting! If you want to get back at him the easiest way is to stop visiting his site. We all know what part of his anatomy his words come from so why bother reading them?

[barton2500]

I bet tom is laughing at everyone now. He's stirred up trouble while raking in the dough. The only way we can shut him up is if we slow his traffic to a crawl. If only we could do that....

that rant was unjustified, out of order, and inexcusable..............and as for him saying it was a joke, bs, he just crapped it cos he knows he's talking **** and someone pulled him up on it

AGRT.

Most of Tom's Hardware readers are less knowledgeable PC users. Most of them are willing to accept any information given, without considering the validity of it and base their buying decisions on that. Suppose AMD offers to pay Tom more than Intel; I'd like to know if Tom would accept it :rolleyes: (not that AMD can afford to outpay Intel) My point is that Intel feeds off of ignorance, and we can help stop that.

I have a proposition for us AMDers:
1) Stop traffic to his website
2) Inform the public of the fallacies of the rant.

1 can be accomplished easily for those who know how technically ;) and 2 will indirectly have an impact on stopping traffic.

Here's my plan for 2:
i) Critique his column..indicating every single fault in the argument.
Much of them are already listed in this thread, and I'm sure someone who've studied about arguments can tie all of this together,
ii) Send this critique in all computer related information sources. Examples are: Anandtech, PC World, slashdot.org, etc. Be sure to stick this in Tom's forums...and if he deletes it, post it again.(Imagine what would happen :))
Also, publishing it on major newspapers will help.

At this point, THG's credibility will be shredded razor thin and the less informed hopefully will be more cautious in interpretting information posted at THG. In fact, traffic at THG may even reduce because they may realize THG is a big sell out to Intel.

I would write the critique(in fact I am taking a course on Critical Thinking and I oughta show this to the prof), but I've got 2 exams coming up next week. Maybe when I have spare time I'll start drafting something.

[Mr.Rotory]

Originally posted by futura2001
Why is everybody angry at tom?
Who cares if tom hates AMD processors?
I like AMD and so does pretty much everyone replying to this thread, but who cares if Tom is bashing AMD for the 500th time?
It's like like he's saying your mom is fat or something! It's just a computer. If tom came out tommorrow and said that AMD is the greatest, it wouldn't change a damn thing! Your computer will not become more or less of a piece of sh%$ due to Tom. If you are happy with what you own, good. End of story.
Here's a really good idea: if you don't like what tom has to say, don't read it. Did anyone force you to read it?
Tom and his fanbase can go live in their little bizzaro-world where AMD processors are significantly inferior to Intel processors, but leave it be.
Instead of b*$@#ing and whining about how Tom is so bad for putting out such lies to "unsuspecting readers" with his website, why don't you start your own truthful site?
Everyone wants to yell at tom and complain, but nobody wants to do anything about it.

I dont know if you trade any stocks but toms has a HUGE effect on the market. When tom came out and stated that the FX was named the faster personal CPU in the world, amd stock DOUBLED, now that he is bashing AMD, the stock will go down, or atleast it will make investors unweary. You have to realize that people that invest (other then me and a few others) love tech stocks but they dont have the computer geeks phycology, they go off of the "vibe" they dont understand why one chip is better then the other, and so they listen to tom and tom has gotten to be rather popular, none of use can become that popular and have that much of a reputation and remember that reputation was given by none other then us and then hence this is why this article effects us so much, it is not a correct accusation, it is articles like this that ruin reputations and the reason they ruin them is because we take away the reputation when the recipient of the reputation has become biosed, bought out and giving an incorrect "vibe".

One a side note, if AMD does go down that means no more awesome bang for buck chips that rock the competitor, no more competition, it will go back to Mac vs PC and you dont want that, no matter how great G5 is.

[barton2500]

We need to discredit Tom as pointed out above. I think I'm gonna start drafting an essay...AMD stocks need to stay up! ;)

Well I'll let AMD take a hit, I'll buy some stock..then publish the essay and watch it bounce back up. :D

AMD should take this to court...Tom is slandering AMD and AMD users. I'd really like to see how Tom will handle that. In fact, that columnist oughta get fired for trying to mislead people. It's as bad as saying G5s are the fastest processors.

[Steven4563]

Originally posted by barton2500

AMD should take this to court...Tom is slandering AMD and AMD users. I'd really like to see how Tom will handle that. In fact, that columnist oughta get fired for trying to mislead people. It's as bad as saying G5s are the fastest processors.


i agree AMD need to get law suits on as i said before

[TommyRude]

Sorry, but as full of ****e as he may be, if AMD could sue him for that, then he could sue everyone here who said he had no credibility, etc etc.
Its all opinions, people. Some people's opinions are just mind bogglingly stupid, but for better or for worse they still have a right to them.

[barton2500]

See what I have already stated about opinions (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=272641).

Even though Tom's opinion is garbage, and he has a right to it, he is publicly slandering AMD. It's the same as someone publishing on the newspaper "Tom is a big fat liar". :)

Having an opinion is a right, but slandering people is not.

The real problem is that people will believe mind bogglingly stupid opinions if those people are stupid enough. Believing Tom's opinion is like believing Intel is God...after all, Intel makes sure Tom gets rewarded well for following Intel.

Now I see how religion is going to part of processor marketing..lol

[TommyRude]

Afraid not, bart. I read the article, I read it again, and I read it a third time. Nuthin in it shows what the court's would define as a blatand and malicious disregard for the truth.
Yeah, his opinions are a little, um, colorful, but he's not acusing AMD of anything other than making what he feels is an unessecarry step in CPU developement. End of story, that'll be 2 cents please. :P

[barton2500]

May very well be true that it is not going to be "blatand and malicious disregard for the truth" but still, it is misleading.

How about I argue..we don't need 32 bit computing..16 bit is good enough, in the case where Intel has 16 bit processors and AMD has 32 processors compatible with 16 bit code? Sure 32 is revolutionary from 16, but eventually 64 bit will revolunize computing as well. That's why Intel is going to produce 64 bit processors for the desktop.

Here's at least one thing seriously flawed: "delusional AMD lovers"
Am I delusional because I chose AthlonXP for the reason that it is half the price of a P4?

"the poor, downtrodden users of products that never seem to be able to match PR numbers to actual performance"

If you are talking about K5, K6, fine. But K7 is based on matching numbers with the Athlon Thunderbirds(ie not P4s. Am I poor because I chose AMD? What about people who buy Honda Accords instead of Mercedez Benz S500?

"Hah! We are proven right! Intel is copying our beloved god of impecuniosities. Intel has succumbed. Intel admits we are superior. We are right. We have always been right. We is winners. We will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!"

Who the hell is saying that? If you can't name someone, no one has said it. Maybe your imaginary AMD fanboy may have??? Reality is that not every AMD fan are going to say AMD is god. I'll take Intel processors if they are priced competitively; as they stand, I'll buy AMD without declaring AMD is god. No, we AMD users are not idiots. We do not say "We is winners."

"They won't deny..." Who? Your imaginary AMD fanboy?

"Why has Intel done this? They're scared of any advantage, anywhere, for anyone, and they sure as hell didn't want to read one more uninformed piece about how 64 bit computing was the next leap for desktop computing. Certainly not while they only had a 32 bit desktop strategy, and the elephantine Itanium architecture to throw right back at the lowly paid young journos working their first piece in the technology section of some daily newspaper. "
Uninformed piece that 64 bit computing was the next leap? Excuse me, but what is the next leap if not going 64 bit? You want 128 bits to be next leap? Or do you want 5 GHz with 50 stage pipeline?

"there is no 64 bit computing race" So why did Intel start developing 64 bit desktop processors? And why is Microsoft preparing to release 64 bit Windows? 64 bit = innovation, and what corporation that exists doesn't race by innovation?

"It is an artificial race, like the great arms race of the 80s, which ultimately resulted in the Soviet Union bankrupting itself trying to keep up with Ronald Reagan's America." See earlier posts by others.

"Is Intel really afraid of a 64 bit Microsoft OS for AMD64?

I find that hard to believe." Guess what? Linux isn't going to be the mainstream desktop operating system for the average user who has no idea of how to use Linux. Sure it has a GUI, is powerful, well supported, but you can't learn Linux overnight like you can with Windows. In fact, you'd go nowhere with Linux without a textbook, whereas you can use Windows without one. Simply put, 64 bit Windows will at least be an option, for the average user, if not the best option. Linux is free, but is it easy to use? I don't want to get into the debate about free software, but there will be a significant market for 64 bits Windows, at least in the short term. If Linux does become mainstream for desktop, it will take quite awhile.


" It realizes that it needs to go more and more mainstream. It needs the Tier One OEMs, it has the IBMs of this world, and it can have the Intels. " Are you saying my AMD system will not run Linux because Intel is mainstream? If I am cheap and run Linux, why don't I save money by buying AMD?

"If the company decides to do the whole bang for buck argument and go against Intel on the basis of its lower cost chips then, it will just be back to where it was at the tail end of 2002. Not good. " If they are not doing so good, why isn't AMD dead yet, and why is AMD making better processors than Intel?

"Will the company maintain its pricing, focus on its brand, and target the segments of the market that it can get, or will it rise to the bait and try and be the AMD of old?" Branding is for the ignorant. Anyone who buys Intel because it is a better brand is too stupid to realize there is a benefit to buying AMD. If AMD maintains it pricing, fine, at long as it still provides good price/performace. If it lowers prices, good, it will keep surviving as it always have, provided they still make a profit(even though it may be smaller).

"Will AMD take comfort in knowing that it got to Intel, or will it be more interested in scoring PR points and claiming that it did it first? " If AMD took comfort in winning the 1GHz race, where would AMD be? Scoring PR points? Guess what, Athlon64 PR points are mean for competing with P4s and they do show Athlon64 is on par with it or beat it.

"The problem is that every time Intel comes around to playing AMD at its own game, it normally ends up owning the final period, and scores at will. " Yea, sure, and Intel owns everytime? What happened to the flaw with Pentiums? What happened with the P3 1GHz? What about Willamette? Prescott? A 64 bit furnace is still a furnace. Reality: they take turns scoring, AMD isn't able to produce better processors like they always have.

"After all, what's better, convincing corporates and Tier-One that you are unique and have a viable alternative to Intel in certain areas of the market...

Or...

... Go straight up against Intel and try and beat them head-to-head."

Why bother? Is the market for Dell PCs that good? What about the major motherboard players...don't they all have motherboards for A64? IBM? They still have marketshare in desktop PCs?

What's wrong with competiting head to head when AMD has a better product? If Intel introduces better processors, chances are, AMD will lower pricing too.

[Steven4563]

ive had AMD from day 1 its was a AMD k6-2 400mhz lol :D

ive had one 3 AMD computers from there and 1 Intel and i hated the intel so much it was a P4 1.6ghz

[barton2500]

Lol..I also have 3 AMDs(1 thorton, 1 barton, 1 K6-2 and 1 Intel..and I upgraded the Intel Pentium 120 with an IDT Winchip 180...lol.

[TommyRude]

I never said he wasn't wrong, barton :P
But "blatant and malicious disregard for the truth" is the definition of slander.
As for someone saying a group of people are delusional, that has to be legal cuz if it wasn't I'd be in jail right now. I think Linux users are delusional, Dragon Ball Z fans are delusional, Insane Clown Posse fans are delusional, people who speak 'l33t' are not only delusional but should be dragged out and shot along with the ICP freaks, and I think democrates as a whole are delusional. That's my opinion, and if you disagree I think you're delusional too, or maybe I am but I'm not gonna sue anyone for claiming so.

*ahem* Anyway, the IBM PS1 my parents bought when I was like 9 or 10 was an Intel 25mhz system. Since I started building my own machines (as well as their's), I've stuck with AMD. I think all together, I've gone through about 6 AMD systems.

[barton2500]

I've included more "truths" in his article.

I'm wondering, will the Intel fanboys buy the article? Or will they realize the truth?

[TommyRude]

One thing I've noticed about 'fans' of anything is they'll rally behind it and anything in praise of it no matter what. If Intel made a processor that somehow cause angry bees to fly out of the CPU and sting the user to death, they'd still eat it up. To be fair, the AMD freaks would probably do the same thing. With that in mind, who cares what they think since none of them would use AMD anyway. Most likely some will just rally behind Tom (Maybe I should sue him for using my name too :P) and quote his crap like its an actual explaination unless you press them hard enough and they break down and say, "Well, um, AMDs are for ****, so there!"

As for the other 'truths', they're still phrased as opinions or predictions. Face it, if AMD by some twist of fate actually gave enough weight to that site to actually sue them, the judge would laugh in their faces and they'd get tons of negative PR as being a bunch of whiney babies. "Your honor, the mean man said our new chips were dumb!" If everyone were able to sue every ******* on the internet who didn't like their products, movie critics would be banned and the editors of consumer digest would have to go into hiding. Its not like he's saying AMD executives eat babies or something.

[barton2500]

The chips are dumb? They're claiming AMD users are dumb. Good point...maybe in any group of people there are going to be dumb people anyway, whether or not they are AMD users.

The other opinions/predictions are worth crap as well.

The real problem is that potential AMD buyers maybe turned away. Maybe true that most of AMD's sales come from previous AMD users, but there are other users that might buy AMD. For instance, Intel users might switch, or a new computer buyer might buy AMD.

Likely, they won't sue, but it sure does damage to their reputation.

About rallying:
Sure the fanboys are like mobs. But anyone who is calling AMD users **** must be pretty ignorant. Bottom line: do we tolerate ignorance? I certainly hope not. But inevitably there will be people who do, such as those who believe illiteracy in math is acceptable.

Well the best thing I can is just called the writer a dumbass :p. And I wouldn't be too far from the truth.

[ProBoner]

Originally posted by TommyRude
One thing I've noticed about 'fans' of anything is they'll rally behind it and anything in praise of it no matter what. If Intel made a processor that somehow cause angry bees to fly out of the CPU and sting the user to death, they'd still eat it up.




:D LOL :clap:

[chilly charlie]

In my opinion it is the fear factor...knowing AMD has the superior product and doing what intel and cronies of intel do very well.... advertise and slam competition.... when a AMD64 3400 ($574 canadian) does better on gaming and slightly worse on other benchies to a P4 EE 3.2 ghz ($1274 canadian) then they truly have something to fear because people are becoming more and more tech savy and they will realize that for half the price you get the same speed (and better on games) as well as readiness for the 64 bit generation.

[Freddie]

Do what i and many others have done. FLAME HIM

[bulk88]

Originally posted by TommyRude
If everyone were able to sue every ******* on the internet who didn't like their products, movie critics would be banned and the editors of consumer digest would have to go into hiding.
Consumer Digest cant be trusted, they acept corporate ads, and product donations. Consumer Reports always buys retail and doesn't take ads of any kind, or corporate contributions.

[Silent Buddha]

Conspiracy Theory (http://www.community.tomshardware.com/forum/showflat.m?Cat=&Board=comp_cpu&Number=511872&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5)

[Kenshiro]

Unfortunately in this free world, tomshardware can write whatever he wants. Maybe we should boycott and stop going to his site....... kidding...........lol....................

[@md0Cer]

Originally posted by Jex
What a jerk! I bet he will lose quite a bit of his reader base due to this smug stunt.

Nope, this didn't make me stop being a reader. I never was and never will be. Toms has been biased for a long time. I think Intel pays him or something. And then he tried to cover it up and made AMD win on top of the intels, I mean a freaking Duron owning a 3.2Ghz p4? yea right................

Anyways, he was Intel biased for a long time. Once quite a while ago he made a huge article on how Intel was better becuase it lasted longer than the AMD when taking the HSF off while running..........................

Personnaly I really dont care what tomshardware does anymore, I just label it in my mind as BS. If someone is trying to prove a point about an AMD vs Intel thing and gives me a tomshardware link, I dont even bother reading it. Sometimes I visit toms if I want a good laugh :D

[@md0Cer]

Originally posted by #18


Stop saying that already lol.

This is the reason why those Intel fan boys and girls keep picking on AMD users, and saying AMD users are cheap or thin skinned.

AMD = cheap? It's not true. Just because you picked a cheap AMD chip, does not make AMD the symbol of cheap. Their Athlon 64 and FX chips just cost as much as Intel's Northwood C and EE processors. The fact is AMD provide better chips at same or lower prices. It is pointing at AMD's "low-end" and middle range chips. They are good chips, almost perform as good as Intel's high-end chips, but at much lower cost.

Well I doubt the most Intel fans are any richer than AMD users. Otherwise why not all of them have the latest Intel chips? Lots of them equiped with P4 Northwood chips 2.4C ~ 2.8C while having Ti4200 ~ Radeon 9600(sometimes even an all powerful FX5200). Compare to the AMD users who have 2500+ with 9800Pro, who is smarter?
I am trying to say to the Intel fans, if you think your skin isn't as "thin" as AMD users, try to get everything the "better" one. Not only the CPU. Else you are not much different in skin matter. :p

AMD is not cheap. You get what you pay for. A 1700 is a low model number, therefore it costs 45 dollars. The top of the line FX is $800 something. That 1700 may seem cheap to intel users who shell out 100+ for an out of date CPU like the 1700. Also, the 1700 is slightly out of date if you are going to run it at stock speeds, but it overclocks to about 180%. 1.47 to 2.5 is about 180 percent, if not, more.

I bet you could get a 1700 for cheaper than an Intel Pentium 2!!!!!! im gonna go check that out......

[Freddie]

Okay UPDATE;
About 2 hourse ago i sent an e-mail to THG, complainting about the fact that they are not fiar to AMD and that they try to dis them all the time, with their pro intel opions. Now i was not rude and i said it politely. Just now when i checked my e-mail i found that Omid Rahmat, the writer of the article in question, had replied. I was shocked when i read this (Gee i hope people do read it).
Check out the front page, www.tomshardware.com. They are called opinion
pieces, columns, and other editors have their own views.

Don't be so narrow minded, and biased.

Omid Rahmat

GM & Publisher
Tom's Guides Publishing
www.tomshardware.com

OMG! :mad: He is telling me not to be biased. I do like AMD yes, but i would not call myself biased in any way. I know that each of the cpu's have pros and cons, THG only seem to be able to show the cons of AMD. I urge you all to never go to that site again, unless you are bored and want to read some bull crap.

[@md0Cer]

LMAO! Toms hardware is so funny.

BTW, what was his email adress?

[Freddie]

I don't know, i used the freedback systerm. I was going to type in a bogus e-mail, but i typed in my real one. I will try to find out what it is. Have the troops ready for when i tell it all to you.

UPDATE: Here it is. omid@tomshardware.com Flame it all you want.

[meatneck]

i guess ill come right out and say whats on my mind...tom is a big @#$hole..the amd 64 beat intel to the 64bit generation and now tom mr. intel(fanboy) himself is going to talk down on the processor that will walk all over his intel...i dont understand it..if amd is so bad why would techtv(the screen savers)use the amd 64 in the creation of the ultimate gaming machine..this guy is being paid by intel to talk bad about amd..i mean really if he wasnt being paid there would be no way someone would say such horrible things about a company. i dont read his crappy reviews anyway unless there is a link on one of my o/c websites and it is always to see him say something to this nature. TOM ITS TIME TO WAKE UP!!! AMD IS IN GREAT SHAPE SINCE THE RELEASE OF THE ATHLON 64...

[bulk88]

Tom probably wrote this below, corrupting a public GPLed encyclopedia, how could you!!!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pentium_4
I removed, at least for now, the following PR blurb:

In addition to making significant increases in performance from the Pentium III class of CPUs. The Pentium 4 produces low amount of heats compared to its AMD counterparts, and features a silver electroplated sheet of copper ontop of the core to protect it. A retention mechanism which placed the physical load of the cooling mechanism on the motherboard via a retention mechansim mounted on holes through the motherboard, this is important as shearing off of the retention tabs on the CPU socket. is a common problem when some heatsinks. In addition to producing less heat, each version version of the core for Pentium 4 undergoes testing to determine its maximum safe operable tempature, heat output, maximum safe core voltage. The Pentium 4 also includes safeguards to make use of the information gathered about the maximum safe operable speed of the Pentium 4. If the Pentium 4's on core thermal diode reads higher than the maximum safe operable tempature, it will descrease the core speed to reduce output. This is very important, as even if a Pentium 4s cooling mechanism somehow becomes detached, it will survive the incident.

Quite a bit needs to be done with this to correct some misconceptions.


One needs to be careful about making "significant increases in performance" generalisations. The thing about the P4 is that it ticks very fast, but does relatively little work per tick. In terms of IPC, it was a major step backwards. In terms of raw clockspeed it was (eventually) a major step forward. The original P4s were, frankly, slugs. They got better - much better - when Northwood arrived.
The "low power, low heat" thing is nonsense. Compare, for example, the P4 1.5GHz and the (slightly faster) Thunderbird 1000c - 52W at full load vs 54W - a very marginal difference indeed. (I'll try to find time to dig out a few other examples later tonight.) Essentially, provided you compare similar process technology parts that have similar computational power, there is very little difference between P4 and Athlon. AMD claim that the Athlon is more power efficient than the P4, though I think that they maybe take it a little too far.) (The P-III, on the other hand, is remarkably power efficient. A 1.8 micron P-III 1000 - which was the equal of a P4 1.5 and not far behind the Athlon 1000c, performance wise - consumed just 33W.)

OK, more power consumption figures, as promised. First, I have to apologise for my mistake earlier tonight. I said that power consumption is, in fact, roughly the same between the Athlon and the P4. I was wrong. I've been checking my facts, and the Athlon clearly uses considerably less power than the P4 to do the same amount of work. The numbers above compare the maximum consumption of the Thunderbird 1000 to the typical consumption of the P4. The correct figures are:

54W: 0.18u Thunderbird 1000C
75W: 0.18u Pentium 4 1.5 (Socket 423)
(There were at least three variants of the 1.5 - the other two are 76W and 79W.)
Now let's consider the next performance level. There was hot debate as to which of these two chips was, in fact, faster, the P4 1.7 or the Thunderbird 1400. Most experts - about two out of three - regarded the Athlon as the faster of the two, but some argued the other way, and everone agrees that they were very close.

72W: 0.18u Thunderbird 1400
87W: 0.18u Pentium 4 1.7 (Socket 423)
Now let's look at the next step again (and another hotly debated "which is the best of two rather similar chips" contest. The consensus is that the XP 1700 was comfortably faster than a P4 2.0 - remembering that this is the old 256k 1.8 micron P4, not the vastly improved 0.13u Northwood that came along in January 2002.

64W: 0.18u Athlon XP 1700+
96W: 0.18u Pentium 4 2.0 (Socket 423)
100W: 0.18u Pentium 4 2.0 (Socket 478)
Just for fun, let's throw in the Northwood as well - but we must remember that in doing this we are not comparing like with like, as the 2.0 Northwood is faster than an XP 1700 and made on a different and much cooler running process. I'll also include the 0.13 Athlon at 2000+ for comparison

69W: 0.13u Pentium 4 (Northwood)
62.8W: 0.13u XP 2000 (Thoroughbred)
Finally, let's take the two current-model 2600 parts:

68.3W 0.13u Athlon XP 2600+
81W: 0.13u Pentium 4 2.6 (Northwood)
Next: A retention mechanism ... this is important as shearing off of the retention tabs on the CPU socket is a common problem when some heatsinks. Sorry, but that's pure PR bull. In my 20+ years of working with PCs, I have seen this problem in the flesh exactly once. It was toward the end of last year, about October, I think, and the CPU in question was, of all things, a Cyrix 686. We devised an ugly but effective workaround of the sticky-tape and string variety, but then the customer decided it ws time he had an upgrade anyway, so we just threw the motherboard away. At the time it was about four or five years old and worth maybe US$10. Never seen it happen to an Athlon or a P4.

Each version version of the core for Pentium 4 undergoes testing to determine its maximum safe operable tempature, heat output, maximum safe core voltage. Yup. Quite right. Each version of every other CPU manufactured in the last ten or twenty years also. Not to mention vido card GPUs, RAM, and anything else that uses large transistor counts.

If the Pentium 4's on core thermal diode reads higher than the maximum safe operable tempature, it will descrease the core speed to reduce output. This is very important, as even if a Pentium 4s cooling mechanism somehow becomes detached, it will survive the incident. And here, at last, we finally strike gold. This is an important feature of the P4 design, and (unless someone gets in first) I'll return this to the entry. It's very different to the Athlon. The P4 clock throttles (i.e., slows itself down) in a user transparent way. The only way you become aware of the fact that your P4 is overheating is when you notice that it's not performing properly. (By the way, this aspect of the P4 design makes benchmarking very difficult - unless you go to a lot of trouble with cooling, you never get the same result twice running.) In contrast, the Athlon delivers 100% of its rated performance 100% of the time. When the Athlon's thermal diode hits a pre-set critical temperature, it cuts the power. It's a diference of design philosophy: the Intel part is prepared to sacrifice performance to avoid an unintended shutdown, the AMD is prepared to risk an unintended shutdown in order to deliver 100% performance. Neither chip can self-destruct unless the technician is grossly incompetent. (Note that older model Athlons - in particular the Thunderbirds - relied on motherboard manufacturers to provide effective thermal sensing. Often, they didn't. I always regarded that as a design error on AMD's part - personally, I wouldn't trust the average motherboard manufacturer to tie his own shoelaces 10 times out of 10. Tannin 15:40 Jan 30, 2003 (UTC)

[Mr.Rotory]

WOO HOOO HE APPOLIGIZED!!!!!

"To apologize to AMD lovers, who, and rightly so, point to the processor's consistent performance spec ratings and price/quality benchmarks, which more often than not beat Intel processors, Intel has also conceded that its Itanium 64 bit is no way to go for small server applications." <-------- i'm sure thats what he means, :D however if not that then definetly this

http://www20.tomshardware.com/column/200402201/index.html

excellent article that changes the way I view AMD, because if Toms is correct then AMD is one of the few companies that seem to strive not so much on profits and PR then they do on engineering, the basis for this all, and that is what I LOVE in a company more then anything else.

And I love the closing

"I think you have unfairly dissed the house of "We will try and see if we cannot do what you want" However, if you still believe that Intel has won the "war" and AMD is all done, please contact me. I have a choice piece of bridge real estate in Brooklyn, New York for sale and I will negotiate a once in a lifetime price for you."

[Freddie]

I think that i might go there again, as long as i read articles by that non-biased guy.

[Silent Buddha]

Sweet, two un-biased articles calling for an apology from Omid. Now why can't Tomshardware have more of this?

[BartonBadBoy]

Also, the 1700 is slightly out of date if you are going to run it at stock speeds, but it overclocks to about 180%. 1.47 to 2.5 is about 180 percent, if not, more.

@mdOCer, did you go to the omid rahmat school of algebra or what???? that couldnt be more wrong

1.47 + 100% would equal 2.94 in my book, if i could get a cpu to oc by 100% i would be overjoyed, never mind 180%

[Josebmw]

He must mean that 180% percent of the speed relative, 80% would be o/c, which would still be 2.65 GHz, w/e. I think tomshardware knew they were going to get this type of response, so get more hits, they make 2 more articles saying how "sorry" they are, right he is... Omid's article sounded like sensationalist propaganda.

[BartonBadBoy]

i think he fancies himself as another hitler, except he's got it in for amd users instead jews.............
theres a thread on here about an apology fom thg, i suggest anyone who feels as strongly about the original rant as i do reads it, just so i for one can get some feedback from others...........the "apology" isnt written by omid, er go he hasnt apologised..............this im not happy with, unless omid is not in a position to apologise personally due to the fact that he got the bullet for being a biased, jumped up ****** ****head that wants stabbed

[Josebmw]

I dont think he had the guts or that he does not think he is wrong, but his peers did and wrote those articles.

[bulk88]

Originally posted by Josebmw
He must mean that 180% percent of the speed relative, 80% would be o/c, which would still be 2.65 GHz, w/e. I think tomshardware knew they were going to get this type of response, so get more hits, they make 2 more articles saying how "sorry" they are, right he is... Omid's article sounded like sensationalist propaganda.

I think he was talking in proofs, so 180 proof cpu overclock is 90%, 100 proof cpu overclock is 50% overclcok.

[Josebmw]

I dont understand, I know that is related to alcohol proof, but why that? Even if it is a 180 proof cpu, it is not a 90 % o/c. It would be more like 136 proof cpu, with a 68% o/c, kinda confusing to state it that way.

[BartonBadBoy]

i'll say it is

i know if i bought a bottle of pop advertised as having 180% extra free, i'd be ****** to find out that it only had 90% extra free, you know what i mean?

[Absolute Zero]

the problem with all this is that amd already has a bad name in the mainstream. here locally, in BFE, North Carolina, some idiot was taking i think it was 1500+ and ocing them to 3200+ speeds. of course, he had to max the voltage, and of course, every chip died within 3 months. now anyone i talk to about my pc says, "O MY GOD!! YOU USE AMD? WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?" of course these idiots are the ones who have the money, the ones who buy the billions of dollars in pc's, and the ones who won't buy amd because of bad marketing/pr/stupidity of vendors. of course, he's apologized, and its all good now, but the damage is done. someone out there will not buy a athlon 64 because of that article, despite the follow-ups. now it sounds like i have an ax to grind. whatever guys, what we say on this forum won't matter. the people who need to be reading this, the masses, won't, and we'll just get angrier and beat our heats against the wall. maybe amd should, oh, i don't know, advertise! that would solve most of the problems we have. let people know the truth. i'll shutup now.

[Cyrix_2k]

Thanx for the the feedback link. Tom's gonna love my feedback... hehehe ;)

[mrneed]

why does it take people flaming tom for him to say he's wrong about flaming amd user/buyers i think tommy boy just needs some hugs n kisses to get his mind right.ill give omid/tom a $50.oo spot for some trim here in atlanta maybe that will inspire him not be so ugly towards people no matter what we use.

[mrneed]

is tom a racist ?.this hitler thing is scary!!.will tom rul the world?only time will tell.group hug for omid/tom. world peace will save us all, im sorry i forgot my meds.p.s tomhardware is satan play ground!!im sorry but this so comical is tom ego as big as his mouth or is it his words?so many questions,rants,and so on.i truely luv these forums u guys rule forget tomsmugware!!!

[OC Detective]

This is what DIM O had to say about his article on aceshardware - dont expect any apology! But the entire thread makes good reading
http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=115060288:)