very interesting results, again ;) [Archive]

dustybyrd

02-20-04, 01:42 AM

having task manager open on my dual AMDxp system while 3dmark2003 is running (on a 9700pro) causes the system to reboot...

reboots almost everytime with CPU0 as the only cpu running 3dmark2003 while the task manager window is open...and even when not overclocked...

reboots about half the time with CPU1 as the only cpu running 3dmark2003 while the task manager window is open...also when running at stock speeds...

reboots occasionally with both CPUs running 3dmark2003 while the task manager window is open...also even when running stock speeds...

never reboots (even up to 2.18ghz, fsb 145mhz) at all running 3dmark2003 with task manager closed, using cpu0, cpu1 solely or both cpu's at once...

also, if the task manager is open while 3dmark2003 is running, the screen "jumps" everytime windows task manager refreshes...

none of these effects happen while 3dmark2001 is running...

has anyone else seen this happen?

aftermath

02-20-04, 07:30 AM

i tryed this after seeing the other thread and was unable to reproduce your problems. Im using cat4's on a 9800p and win 2ksp4 what os and drivers are u using?

cmcquistion

02-20-04, 09:30 AM

Sounds like a video driver issue, probably.

I tried this with my Geforce 4 Ti4600 and I can't get the system to reboot.

dustybyrd

02-20-04, 10:02 AM

i tryed this after seeing the other thread and was unable to reproduce your problems. Im using cat4's on a 9800p and win 2ksp4 what os and drivers are u using?

i'm using cat 3.9's from ATI...

and i don't have any "losing set resolution" problems upon reboot...that many dual users complained about...

initially, i tried cat 4.1's from that site that optimizes the drivers (omega i think) and i was only getting ~2500 3dmark2003 and less than 10000 3dmark2001....

so i switched to cat 3.9's (since i had read most users hadn't experienced any problems with it....while the cat 4+'s are newer and less tested)....

with 3.9's i am getting ~4500 3dmark2003 and ~12,000 3dmark2001 with the 9700pro at 335/650...

my 3.3v rail takes a slight hit (according to mbm) with the 9700pro...it can go as low as 3.23, but typically stays at 3.28-3.3... (this didn't happen with the ti4600 i had previously, as it fluctuated between 3.28-3.3)...the other rails are very static, regardless of load...4.92-4.95 and 12.04-12.1...so i don't think the antectp 550 is the problem (also in light of the successful 3dmark2003 results without task manager open)

dustybyrd

02-20-04, 10:05 AM

Sounds like a video driver issue, probably.

I tried this with my Geforce 4 Ti4600 and I can't get the system to reboot.

unfortunately, i think you're right...

when you run 3dmark2003 (with your ti4600) with the task manager window open (and looking at the 2 cpu processes screen on another monitor)...do you see any "jumping" of the screen in synchronization with the refreshing of task manager?

also i have task manager set to refresh every second...so every second the screen "jumps" back and forth...but with no artifacts...

cmcquistion

02-20-04, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by dustybyrd
when you run 3dmark2003 (with your ti4600) with the task manager window open (and looking at the 2 cpu processes screen on another monitor)...do you see any "jumping" of the screen in synchronization with the refreshing of task manager?

also i have task manager set to refresh every second...so every second the screen "jumps" back a forth...but with no artifacts...

I don't have those problems, when leaving task manager open, while running 3DMark2003. I just tried it, to make sure. I just went through the first three tests and had no problems (I didn't want to wait for the entire series, so I cancelled out, after having no problems in three tests.)

When you say "(and looking at the 2 cpu processes screen on another monitor)...", do you mean that you have two actual monitors hooked up, or do you just mean that you have the task manager window open, behind 3DMark2003?

I have the update speed set to "Normal", which I think is once per second.

dustybyrd

02-20-04, 10:25 AM

I don't have those problems, when leaving task manager open, while running 3DMark2003. I just tried it, to make sure. I just went through the first three tests and had no problems (I didn't want to wait for the entire series, so I cancelled out, after having no problems in three tests.)

When you say "(and looking at the 2 cpu processes screen on another monitor)...", do you mean that you have two actual monitors hooked up, or do you just mean that you have the task manager window open, behind 3DMark2003?

I have the update speed set to "Normal, which I think is once per second. [/B]

yes, i have it set to normal (once per second i think too)

yes, i have two monitors hooked up: primary DVI (on which i have task manager open and on screen) and a secondary vga (on which i run 3dmark2003)...

the "jumping" problem is most noticeable in the "mother nature"---particularly during the lowest fps parts (like initially watching the turtle come into view and when moving up the waterfall or the very end of mother nature) program...and that's where the reboot almost always occurs...(although it can happen in other video tests)...

cmcquistion

02-20-04, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by dustybyrd

yes, i have it set to normal (once per second i think too)

yes, i have two monitors hooked up: primary DVI (on which i have task manager open and on screen) and a secondary vga (on which i run 3dmark2003)...

the problem is most noticeable in the "mother nature"---particularly during the lowest fps parts (like initially watching the turtle come into view and when moving up the waterfall or the very end of mother nature) program...and that's where the reboot almost always occurs...(although it can happen in other video tests)...

It is very common to have 3D problems, when running dual monitors. Most games will just crash out and not start, at all, if they detect two monitors hooked up (and enabled).

You need to disable one, while gaming (or running 3DMark). I bet this will solve your problems.

dustybyrd

02-20-04, 10:33 AM

It is very common to have 3D problems, when running dual monitors. Most games will just crash out and not start, at all, if they detect two monitors hooked up (and enabled).

You need to disable one, while gaming (or running 3DMark). I bet this will solve your problems. [/B]

ok....i have done some gaming with both monitors active...max payne 2 allows me to do it and so does COD...

how do i disable one while gaming...without having to reboot?

cmcquistion

02-20-04, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by dustybyrd

ok....i have done some gaming with both monitors active...max payne 2 allows me to do it and so does COD...

how do i disable one while gaming...without having to reboot?

A few games will work ok and some games, like Flight Simulators, actually support running the game on multiple monitors.

In general, though, it can cause problems.

To disable the other monitor, just go to Display settings and uncheck the box that says "extend windows desktop", then click apply. This will effectively disable the secondary monitor.

dustybyrd

02-20-04, 11:16 AM

A few games will work ok and some games, like Flight Simulators, actually support running the game on multiple monitors.

In general, though, it can cause problems.

To disable the other monitor, just go to Display settings and uncheck the box that says "extend windows desktop", then click apply. This will effectively disable the secondary monitor. [/B]

i had used that method to disable a monitor before...but i didn't want to have to do that since i end up having to move the task bar and all the icons back after i'm done (i know that's a little lazy ;) )

anyway....looks like you're right...

when i disabled the primary monitor and just ran 3dmark2003 on the secondary monitor while running task manager in the background...NO screen "jumping" in the battle of polysomethingorother and no jumping in mother nature....and so far, no rebooting...even when setting the cpu affinity to cpu0, cpu1 individually or both running at the same time...

i guess this would then happen on a ti4600 as well...IF i were running two monitors and task manager in the background?

thanks for your help...it's not like it's that important...but it's disconcerting to watch your "stable" computer reboot during 3dmark2003...but it's very satisfying to solve the problem...

cmcquistion

02-20-04, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by dustybyrd
i guess this would then happen on a ti4600 as well...IF i were running two monitors and task manager in the background?

Yeah, it probably would. I used to run dual monitors and I experienced a range of weird issues, while gaming. Simply disabling one of the monitors would always take care of the problem, though.

There are programs, out there, that can take a snapshot of your desktop and restore your icon position and such. This would allow you to restore your desktop, like you want it, after disabling and enabling monitors. I know I've seen software for this and I think ATI might even have a little utility for it (probably part of their Hydravision software.)

aftermath

02-20-04, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by cmcquistion

It is very common to have 3D problems, when running dual monitors. Most games will just crash out and not start, at all, if they detect two monitors hooked up (and enabled).

You need to disable one, while gaming (or running 3DMark). I bet this will solve your problems.

i dont have this problem and never have all my games have run on the correct srcreen and i can view task maneger on screen 2 during 3dmark2k3.
i suspect it to be a driver problem try the 4.0s.

edit: my primary screan identifies as the VGA screen as defult with the DVI being the secondery. 3d performace on this (DVI) screen is dreadfully slow. why is this?

edit2: turns out iv never wached 3d mark that closely and its not quite right.

dustybyrd

02-20-04, 04:18 PM

i dont have this problem and never have all my games have run on the correct srcreen and i can view task maneger on screen 2 during 3dmark2k3.
i suspect it to be a driver problem try the 4.0s. [/B]

so, as you said, you have task manager open on one screen, set to the performance tab so you can see both cpu's graphs, then you run 3dmark2003 on the other monitor, right? and task manager is set to "normal" update rate?

when you do that, do you see any image "shifting" in 3dmark2003 during nature that is in synchronization with task manager refreshing or updating itself?

also, have you tried setting 3dmark2003 to run only on one cpu at a time?

disk11

02-20-04, 04:38 PM

dit: my primary screan identifies as the VGA screen as defult with the DVI being the secondery. 3d performace on this (DVI) screen is dreadfully slow. why is this?

It could be the moniter. What is your setup in terms of graphics?

dustybyrd

02-20-04, 05:26 PM

It could be the moniter. What is your setup in terms of graphics? [/B]

Primary (where task manager window is open): Dell 15" Flat Panel DVI

Secondary (where 3dmark2003 runs): 21" Nokia CRT

rezon8

02-20-04, 06:39 PM

Just my two cents worth, i dont use the windows taskmanager, i use TaskInfo (http://www.iarsn.com) and AbpMon, which is on the same page.

i use AbpMon to graph out my internet speed, disk I\O speed, Cpu0, Cpu1, and CpuAvg usage, Ram usage etc, all graphed on the top of my screen, and set to "always on top", and i use Taskinfo, well, for task info of course!

A lot more robust than the window TM, IMO.

i hope i linked correctly above, if not

www.iarsn.com

aftermath

02-21-04, 02:19 AM

Iv done it again each on its own screen and see what ur geting at.
Actuly in some of the faster pans u can see small jumps as if it had droped a frame or two most the time it was still smooth. This is only in the nature test and its smooth till the screen pans up the stream folowing the buterfly after the turtel (sp?) the turtels smooth.
its only haperning when task maneger refreshes (normal refresh-rate) but its not each time the task maneger refreshes.

dustybyrd

02-21-04, 11:57 AM

aftermath

02-21-04, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by aftermath
i tryed this after seeing the other thread and was unable to reproduce your problems. Im using cat4's on a 9800p...

To clarify im using a Radion 9800pro 256 and I did force first cpu0 and then cpu1. how much do u think they changed the hardware between the 9700 and the 9800?
Iv ran it with folding on and off as well but don’t get any reboots.

I would not say that there was no more than 3 frames droped at a time probably less. Most the time its not noticable. Seems worst with the butterfly.
I cant fidle till monday tho im away from uni otherwise id try the 3.9s if iv got them on my driver partition 2 c if it restarts.

edit: i should have said that im using the cat 4.0 standards.

**Ill try the 3.9 if i got um.... i might only have the 3.8 ill do this tomorow night if im home.**

dustybyrd

02-21-04, 02:28 PM

To clarify im using a Radion 9800pro 256 and I did force first cpu0 and then cpu1. how much do u think they changed the hardware between the 9700 and the 9800?
Iv ran it with folding on and off as well but don’t get any reboots.

I would not say that there was no more than 3 frames droped at a time probably less. Most the time its not noticable. Seems worst with the butterfly.
I cant fidle till monday tho im away from uni otherwise id try the 3.9s if iv got them on my driver partition 2 c if it restarts. [/B]

i think the difference between the 9800 and 9700 is mostly in the much higher core clock speed...and memory speeds...they both have 8 pipelines and 256bit memory bandwidth

so another difference is w2k for you versus xp for me...you never know...

i would like to know how your 3.9's do before i try the 4.2's...

just don't want to break something that's not broken ;)

same thing on the frames skipped for me too...

JohnDoemakt

02-22-04, 11:46 AM

Powerstrip can save your icons places on the desktop.

And you can use "perfmon.msc" to monitor CPU usage +++

dustybyrd

02-22-04, 03:01 PM

Powerstrip can save your icons places on the desktop.

And you can use "perfmon.msc" to monitor CPU usage +++

thanks for the tip...

bulk88

02-22-04, 03:14 PM

dustybyrd

02-22-04, 03:23 PM

This is a little late, but I would've prime 95ed in this case to see if it is a video card problems or CPU/MB/RAM problem.

Also I heard of somethign called VPU recovery in the ATI cards. If your video card crashes your video card is "rebooted" without the rest of the computer getting rebooted. Someone please add to this.

the system is 100% stable with two instances of prime95 (on each cpu separately or together) for 24 hours at least at 2.18ghz (145x15)....and i have also looped 3dmark2001 at the same time without a problem

also, i do have the VPU recovery enabled...so the video card should reboot if there is a problem...

but, even if the system is stable with prime95, that doesn't mean it's stable under all stressful conditions...

like in this case, two monitors, one displaying 3dmark2003 and one displaying a constantly refreshing taskmanager...

at no other time have i suffered a reboot

aftermath

02-24-04, 09:58 AM

put the 3.9s on and its still not crashing only forced cpu0 tho couldnt be bothered with ruing it twice taskmaneger on screen 2 again and the jumping seamed worse. it was noticable in the trols cave.

dustybyrd

02-24-04, 11:49 AM

put the 3.9s on and its still not crashing only forced cpu0 tho couldnt be bothered with ruing it twice taskmaneger on screen 2 again and the jumping seamed worse. it was noticable in the trols cave.

thanks...

mine didn't always crash...maybe half the time with cpu0 only, and much less with cpu1 only or both cpus with cat 3.9's...

i was wondering what your pcmark2004 scores are with your dual 2.16ghz system?

i am wondering what kind of advantage the 512kb cache of the barton's offers...

my pcmark2004 score is about 4500-4600 at 2.16ghz (also 15x144)

zeRo-liMit

02-24-04, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by bulk88
Also I heard of somethign called VPU recovery in the ATI cards. If your video card crashes your video card is "rebooted" without the rest of the computer getting rebooted. Someone please add to this.

I've got mine enabled (9600Pro) and it activates every now and then when I'm really pushing the core speed. If I'm playing a game etc., the game will look like it froze from having the core too high, and then a second later it will kick to the desktop with a message saying VPU recover noticed that the card had stopped responding and reset it. The core and memory clocks are also reset to default.

It does seem to work, as I haven't had to hard-reset my machine due to a game hang since I got this card.

aftermath

02-26-04, 07:56 AM

ive just run the free version of PCmark04 and got 4989. Is that any good

dustybyrd

02-26-04, 10:48 AM

ive just run the free version of PCmark04 and got 4989. Is that any good

sounds good to me :)

so i guess that means the extra 256k of cache on both chips provides about 10% more speed....at least in this benchmark...

because i scored about 4500-4600...

just wondering whether i should upgrade to the mobile xp's with 512k of cache....