View Full Version : P!!! 700 or Celeron 800
FrankMasterFlash
06-11-01, 02:05 PM
Since my recent death of my celeron 600 I was looking for a new cpu.
I was debating between a P3 700(~$100) or a Celeron 800(~$70).
I have a Asus P3B-F with not too many o/c options like some of the new boards. 66,75,83,100,103,105,110,112,115,120,124,133,140,1 50
CV 1.7-2.0 Asus-DL Slotket.
Since you subtract 200mhz from the celeron that equals the speed a P3. Is that still true with the celeron 800, since I've seen then hit 133mhz+ fsb which will increase memory bandwidth more than some of the older celerons which max out at about 100-120mhz FSB?
Which one do you think I should get?
Lancelot
06-11-01, 02:15 PM
I only got the Celeron 800 cuz I couldn't find a P3-700 anymore overhere in the Netherlands, and I'm not sure about ordering online overseas. So far I'm happy with it. But at 1080Mhz I guess it performs about like a P3 somewhere between 866 and 933 which is what a P3-700 will do anyways...
Lancelot (Jun 11, 2001 02:15 p.m.):
I only got the Celeron 800 cuz I couldn't find a P3-700 anymore overhere in the Netherlands, and I'm not sure about ordering online overseas. So far I'm happy with it. But at 1080Mhz I guess it performs about like a P3 somewhere between 866 and 933 which is what a P3-700 will do anyways...
The usual ratio is (and these are hypothetical):
1 GHZ Celeron = 750 PIII
at least that's what the benchmark's I've seen have estimated.
Buy a Celerie 667 with the 10X multiplier and get the solid 1 GHZ overclock, it should be sweet at raw number crunching, and damn well in games.
Lancelot
06-11-01, 04:16 PM
ok Pinky, but you're talking about a 66Mhz FSB Celeron OCed to a 100Mhz FSB, I'm talking about a 100Mhz FSB Celeron OCed to a 133Mhz FSB...
Swear to God, I came in here to ask the exact same question. I too killed my Celeron 600. Man this is freaky. Also Retail or OEM? Retail would be more likely to be a good chip, right? I'm gonna order tonight. Gotta go shopping with family now. I'm gonna order in a couple of hours. So if anyone knows where the best deal on a good chip for under $100 let me know. I got the Asus CUSL2-C and 128MB of pc133. TIA.
I would go with the P3 700, no doubt about it. No matter what FSB you push the Celeron to it is not going to make up for the lack of a good size cache as this is why the Celeron can't stand up to a P3. I just sold a C2 566 that I had running at 120 fsb which puts the cpu at over a gig. It couldn't compare to a friends 800e (100fsb) not oced.
Go for the larger 256k cache it's more important then a few extra mhz.
FrankMasterFlash
06-11-01, 06:22 PM
Slake (Jun 11, 2001 05:24 p.m.):
Swear to God, I came in here to ask the exact same question. I too killed my Celeron 600. Man this is freaky. Also Retail or OEM? Retail would be more likely to be a good chip, right? I'm gonna order tonight. Gotta go shopping with family now. I'm gonna order in a couple of hours. So if anyone knows where the best deal on a good chip for under $100 let me know. I got the Asus CUSL2-C and 128MB of pc133. TIA.
Mine was an OEM 600. I killed my CPU the day after you killed yours. Strange isn't it. 1:00am CST. 6-10-01. I tried to clean the pins with alcohol but I got too much on the CPU and it is now dead. I let it dry but no post no nothing just power. The core was slightly chipped and chipped the copper on the bottom of my PEP66.
I also killed my first celly 600 the EXACT same way you did. I think it had potential. But Lapped it and cracked the core. Last time I lap a cpu.
Ya the new Celerons and P3's also TBirds don't need lapping they are pretty good right from the factory. That sealer coating also is not there just for looks! On the other hand the older .25 micron based celerons did need lapping quite often as the large cores could be far from flat.
Carmine_Paterno
06-11-01, 07:43 PM
I would just like to say I can't wait to get my Celeron II 800....I am so sick of this hott P3 450 @ 550, reapplied heatsink/paste and got much higher temps....so i need a new chip. I am hoping to hitt 1100+with this chip.. I love to run chips at high voltages, so i will take mine to the limit.
I would agree with most people that the 700 is by far the best option, you are right about celerons being about as fast as a p3 clocked between 150-200mhz slower depending upon the app and the memory speed doesn't make all that much differance as it is the L2 cache that does it and 133mhz is still slow and doesn't make that much diffierance when accessed directly by the cpu over 100mhz memory. I isn't certain you would get that fast anyway, more likely you would get between 120-130mhz fsb where as the 700 would pretty much guaranteed reach 133mhz (I'm not giving a guarantee by the way) it is rare to see one that doesn't, so the 700 overclocked to 933-1050mhz would be faster than the celeron even if that reached a 133mhz fsb for 1066mhz.
Carmine_Paterno
06-11-01, 08:24 PM
If the Celeron II 800 was @ 1200, i think it would be pretty even with a 700 @ 1050......general games would run better on the Celeron
I don't think you emphasised the 'IF' in that statement quite enough, I mean if the 700 was overclocked to say 2ghz it would be faster surely, of course there isn't much chance of getting it that fast. I won't say it is impossible to get a celeron that fast only you are more likely to get an engineering sample with wings, and yellow poka dots with an intel memo telling you how to overclock.
ROTFLMAO Phil! :D Only problrm is PIII 700's are $120.00 plus retail. Would it be wise to buy a OEM 700 instead of a retail Celeron 800. I checked the S specs at Intel's site and it only listed cC0 steppings for the 800. If I break $100 expenditure on this chip, I'm gonna be in deep doo-doo wif Da Boss. But then forgiveness is easier to get than permission.
This is what I understand. For example, if you use Celeron 800MHz = piii-650MHz.
If OC it to x8 and 133MHz FSB = about Piii-833 or maybe 900MHz.
if OC it to x8 and 117MHz FSB = about Piii-750MHz
Piii700MHz is better but it expensive. You can still OC it :)
Celeron 800 MHz is not expensive if you like to run like piii-850MHz (with a good unit.)
FrankMasterFlash (Jun 11, 2001 06:22 p.m.):
Slake (Jun 11, 2001 05:24 p.m.):
Swear to God, I came in here to ask the exact same question. I too killed my Celeron 600. Man this is freaky. Also Retail or OEM? Retail would be more likely to be a good chip, right? I'm gonna order tonight. Gotta go shopping with family now. I'm gonna order in a couple of hours. So if anyone knows where the best deal on a good chip for under $100 let me know. I got the Asus CUSL2-C and 128MB of pc133. TIA.
Mine was an OEM 600. I killed my CPU the day after you killed yours. Strange isn't it. 1:00am CST. 6-10-01. I tried to clean the pins with alcohol but I got too much on the CPU and it is now dead. I let it dry but no post no nothing just power. The core was slightly chipped and chipped the copper on the bottom of my PEP66.
I also killed my first celly 600 the EXACT same way you did. I think it had potential. But Lapped it and cracked the core. Last time I lap a cpu.
Yeah < Ilearned my lesson about lapping the cpu. :( . Your's wasn't a Costa Rica chip was it? I noticed your VCore was kinda high like mine. Mine was a Costa Rican SL4PB cC0 and I never could wean it off of 2.0 while running benchmarks at 108 FSB. Sorry for your loss man. On to better things. I guess I'm still leaning towards the Celeron 800, haven't decided for sure. What about you? Decided yet? I'm gonna make a final decision in the next couple of hours. Phil had a great point. But what if I did get a 1200MHz Celly, that would be Da Bomb!
Carmine_Paterno (Jun 11, 2001 08:24 p.m.):
If the Celeron II 800 was @ 1200, i think it would be pretty even with a 700 @ 1050......general games would run better on the Celeron
When did you hit the Gig Carmine? Congrats! (probably late ) Great work with that cB0.
Carmine_Paterno (Jun 11, 2001 08:24 p.m.):
If the Celeron II 800 was @ 1200, i think it would be pretty even with a 700 @ 1050......general games would run better on the Celeron
Explain to me how you intend to get a Celeron to 150 FSB, Carmine?? I'm curious....
Mr B
If the Celeron800@1200MHz, It will blow away Piii-1GHz for sure.
William
06-11-01, 10:18 PM
Robert (Jun 11, 2001 10:13 p.m.):
If the Celeron800@1200MHz, It will blow away Piii-1GHz for sure.
It would, but you aren't getting it that high. Unless you have vapochill and god on your side, you are not getting past 1.1ghz. Get the 700, its worth the extra dough.
it wouldn't blow it away it would be about the same, sometimes 5% or so faster, apart from a sandra benchmark where it would blow it away but then that is a load of BS made up numbers fromt he clock speed or soemthing.
As for what you were saying about the various clock speeds and comparing them, depending on the overclock the 800 when overclocker between say 900-1066mhz would be about as fast as a p3 700-900mhz depending on the overclock probabally end up at around 1ghz which would put it as fast as an 800-850mhz p3. The p3 700 isn't that much more expensive and well worth it for the extra speed seeing as you will get 933mhz easily which the 800 wouldn't match without super cooling (ending up more expensive) and may get up to 1.05ghz which the 800 just couldn't match, even with super cooling I wouldn't expect it to get to 1.2ghz or more. the p3 is the best option as you don't have to settle for out of spec bus speeds (unless you got for 150mhz which is only 12% above spec apart fromt he agp bus but then a good nvidia card should be ok at this) where as with the celeron you are gonna be at like 120-124mhz which either means running under or quite a bit above spec.
[OC]_SR20DE
06-11-01, 10:30 PM
may the force be with you!!!, William :* :-P
[OC]_SR20DE
06-11-01, 11:01 PM
Phil, very well said!! I have to agree with him. Even with some magical power of Celeron 800@ 1200 blowing P3 700@ 1050 away is a poor judgement. Robert, think about this for a moment..
Celeron 8x 150 / 128kb L2
VS.
P3 7x 150 / 256kb L2
emmm........... if you think about this again carefully, you'll be able to tell the difference. The P3 takes the twice the amount of what Celeron can take the tag of information each time. I can't explain this very good because im not an american but you know what I mean, hmm?.. Actually I think it's the P3 7x 150 will blow Celeron 1200(150fsb) away. you're only looking at 17mhz fsb difference. It just isn't enough to make up the perfomance of P3 having extra 128kb of L2 cache. emm....... ok im getting headache (>_<\
That does it for me. I'm gonna risk the wrath of my better half and get the PIII 700. Found one for $99.00 on pricewatch. I'm gonna call the vendor tomorrow to see if they can tell me the S code. From the CPU database it seems like the steppings are all over the place just a few bad apples. Some of the codes are at the top and at the bottom of the performance spectrum. The SL3** chips aren't prominent in the top spots but a few are up there. If anyone has worked out a list of the S codes from most to least desirable, I'd appreciate if you'd post it. At this price I'm not optimistic enough to think I'll get a cC0, but the cB0's look really good also. I notice that the SL4CH spec was available in OEM and retail. Maybe I'll get lucky.
FrankMasterFlash
06-11-01, 11:30 PM
Slake (Jun 11, 2001 09:48 p.m.):
FrankMasterFlash (Jun 11, 2001 06:22 p.m.):
Slake (Jun 11, 2001 05:24 p.m.):
Swear to God, I came in here to ask the exact same question. I too killed my Celeron 600. Man this is freaky. Also Retail or OEM? Retail would be more likely to be a good chip, right? I'm gonna order tonight. Gotta go shopping with family now. I'm gonna order in a couple of hours. So if anyone knows where the best deal on a good chip for under $100 let me know. I got the Asus CUSL2-C and 128MB of pc133. TIA.
Mine was an OEM 600. I killed my CPU the day after you killed yours. Strange isn't it. 1:00am CST. 6-10-01. I tried to clean the pins with alcohol but I got too much on the CPU and it is now dead. I let it dry but no post no nothing just power. The core was slightly chipped and chipped the copper on the bottom of my PEP66.
I also killed my first celly 600 the EXACT same way you did. I think it had potential. But Lapped it and cracked the core. Last time I lap a cpu.
Yeah < Ilearned my lesson about lapping the cpu. :( . Your's wasn't a Costa Rica chip was it? I noticed your VCore was kinda high like mine. Mine was a Costa Rican SL4PB cC0 and I never could wean it off of 2.0 while running benchmarks at 108 FSB. Sorry for your loss man. On to better things. I guess I'm still leaning towards the Celeron 800, haven't decided for sure. What about you? Decided yet? I'm gonna make a final decision in the next couple of hours. Phil had a great point. But what if I did get a 1200MHz Celly, that would be Da Bomb!
I haven't made a decision yet I might sleep on it for a day or two. I was leaning toward the P3 for the extra cache for a while and its o/c ability
My celly cC0 SL4PB was a Malay but it was not a very good o/c chip. To get 990 in windows I had to use 2.2v which was way too high. I had stablility prolbems at 900 at anything less than 1.85v. After I plugged a 120mm HO fan in my case and an 42.5 80mm fan on the PEP66 I could lower the Vcore 0.5.
I feel so stupid lapping my first chip. That thing could do 1008@1.9v w/coolermaster HSF, and probably more.
Me too (feel stupid) My wife said she's gonna take my stars and revoke my Senior status. :D
William and Phil-- very well said. May the force be with you, William ;)
Carmine_Paterno
06-12-01, 08:12 AM
Well, i tell you what...you get the 700, and i will get the 800, we will make it like a shootout, and compare. This should be pretty good, as everyone in this forum should benefit. Maybe it will shed some light on the cache issue. I think that the cache doesn't make such a huge difference. I think that 150mhz down from a Celeron=P3. For this to be correct, the Celeron has to have about 10 more FSB. I can't wait to get this chip, as everyone i have heard of has made it to 1ghz at default voltage, which is pretty amazing. I think it will at least do 1100, which will make me EXTREMELY Happy. Be the way, i am getting a Geforce 2 Ultra for 128mb of ram, and 20bucks LoL. My next door neighbor doesn't understand anything no matter how much you try to explain.
C-ya guys l8tr
Carmine_Paterno (Jun 12, 2001 08:12 a.m.):
Well, i tell you what...you get the 700, and i will get the 800, we will make it like a shootout, and compare. This should be pretty good, as everyone in this forum should benefit. Maybe it will shed some light on the cache issue. I think that the cache doesn't make such a huge difference. I think that 150mhz down from a Celeron=P3. For this to be correct, the Celeron has to have about 10 more FSB. I can't wait to get this chip, as everyone i have heard of has made it to 1ghz at default voltage, which is pretty amazing. I think it will at least do 1100, which will make me EXTREMELY Happy. Be the way, i am getting a Geforce 2 Ultra for 128mb of ram, and 20bucks LoL. My next door neighbor doesn't understand anything no matter how much you try to explain.
C-ya guys l8tr
LOL, sounds like a plan Carmine. I just ordered the PIII 700 from http://www.tcwo.com/ (excellent resellerrating) for $105.95 including shipping. The guy said it "should" be a cC0 and it "should be here Thursday or Friday.But then he also said I should get the 750 instead of the 700. So we'll see. Maybe Phil or William would like to come over to my house to supervise my OC of the chip? LOL. I promise not to lap this one!
This was a tough decision for me. That Celeron 800 looks great in the cpu database, and they are ALL cC0 stepping.As far as the "shootout" , thw benchmarking will have to be kinda limited, as my measley 5 Gigs of "antique" disk space is about used up. I'll have to work on fixing that.
Thanks to all for your opinions!!
Quoting Carmine,"By the way, i am getting a Geforce 2 Ultra for 128mb of ram, and 20bucks LoL. "
Holy ****!! You fell into the deal of the century!! Tell your neighbor I'll trade him two 80mm, a 120mm and a 7500rpm 40mm fan for a 21" monitor.I'll even throw in my 2COOLPC+ cooler.
hey slake I'd love to if you'd pay the air fair :)
The celeron 800 would have been great if it had been released as the cCO 533 as it would have been a true bargain, unfortunataly they decided they could make more money from an 800mhz cpu.
If you check out my post here (http://forums.overclockers.ws/forums/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=1&TID=13712&P=1&SID=111219#ID11) I have explained how the cache differs and affects performance between celeron nd p3
LOL, Thanks for the offer Phil. I wish I could send my private jet out to get you, but Don Imus has it ! :) I guess I'll just settle for the great advice you give here in the forums. I'm planning on going slow with this chip. It'll be a while before I can get another. I could've gotten a 1 year warranty on the P3 700 if I had paid $9.00 more for the HSF. I don't think I could hide the fact that I overclocked it if I kill it though.
You should check to see if your house insurance covers it, mine covers all items that have been in the house more than 90 days or something
That's a great policy. I'm an insuarance agent and I never heard of that. Unless its stolen or destroyed in fire (hmmm.....) I don't think my policy covers it. But I'll sure file a claim. Worst thay could do is say no. Thanks!
it's basically house contents insurance that covers accidental damage. For instance if I drop my telly down the stairs and it smashes up I get a brand new one even though it's 15 years old (hmmmm) when I busted my p2 233 I got the money for my celeron 600 and so on.
Guess I'm one of those guys that has to eat the whole cow to know I'm eating beef. I've got replacement cost on my policy too. Think I'll take my system out to the truck for a "trip" to the repair shop. Maybe the kids left their' roller skates on the front porch. When I bought my P166 in 1996 I declared the value of $3000.00. Sadly, that is what it cost at Best Buy. The cover of PC world Declared "166MHz, The new cruising speed!"
AmbientFiction
06-21-01, 09:55 PM
William (Jun 11, 2001 10:18 p.m.):
Robert (Jun 11, 2001 10:13 p.m.):
If the Celeron800@1200MHz, It will blow away Piii-1GHz for sure.
It would, but you aren't getting it that high. Unless you have vapochill and god on your side, you are not getting past 1.1ghz. Get the 700, its worth the extra dough.
Well there is one that might work and that would be to build it in a freezer box...If you could get the low enough it should post right?
thats what a vapochill is. It's a little freezer box that fits round the cpu. you can't just put a system in a freezer though as condensation would kill it, plus harddrives like room temperature
AmbientFiction
06-22-01, 01:07 AM
I see ok cool how much do they cost???
They are pretty pricey actually and in my opinion not worth it. For a start they may not give you much extra in speed as heat isn't always the thing holding you back. Plus they are a pain to setup and would you want the sound of a fridge next to you, I know fans are bad but.
William
06-22-01, 04:43 PM
AmbientFiction (Jun 22, 2001 07:20 a.m.):
I see ok cool how much do they cost???
around $600
AmbientFiction
06-25-01, 03:32 AM
Hell I don't mind noise its all about speed then maybe working out the noise factor and even if I can well then I guess I'll just have a loud case
AmbientFiction (Jun 25, 2001 03:32 a.m.):
Hell I don't mind noise its all about speed then maybe working out the noise factor and even if I can well then I guess I'll just have a loud case
Just one question, have you ever used a loud pc before? or are you presuming you won't mind. If so then you may be in for a shock as loud pc's are worse than you might think. If you have and you truly don't mind then stock up on deltas by all means.
samuknow
06-25-01, 09:31 PM
I had the same delima not too long ago. Mr. B and Batboy urged me to spend the xtra and go PIII 700E.
Well I must say that I'm not sorry. This thing rocks.
If you do enough searching and find some comparisons you will see that a the PIII at about 200 less MHz perfoms about the same as a Celery.
Thanks to Mr B and Batboy
nousername
06-26-01, 10:04 AM
I've had my Celeron 800 running @ 1066 (133mhz * 8) for about a week now, at stock voltage with air cooling a bit of ASII compound...I pushed it up to 1104 (138 fsb) still at stock, and it crashed on me after a little while running windows...I don't want registry errors at this point in my life, so i think i'll ghost my disks and then try to push it higher, but i think 1100-1200 should definitely be attainable with a Celeron 800...
You use the word 'definitely' far too easily, 800mhz is not even definate though you can get it replaced if there are problems. 1.1ghz on a coppermine core is not an easy task. You are quite lucky with your core. The thing I find unsatisfying about overclocking celerons is knowing it's only as fast as a p3 clocked 200mhz slower, sure 1.1ghz is an impressive figure, but it's only as fast as 900mhz or so on a p3. the odds are with an 800 you will reach some where in the reagon of 1ghz which will peform about as well as a p3 800, if you only have the money for an 800 then it's a simple choice, but if your asking which one to get then you can obviously afford the p3 700 in which case theres just no comparrison between them as you get more performance and better overclockability from the 700
nousername
06-26-01, 10:56 AM
Before this Celeron @ 1066, i was running a p3-600e @ 800 mhz, and just for the record this celeron is trouncing the performance of that p3 in just about everything i can throw at it, and I'm getting comparable marks to a p3-gig, i'm not saying that this "200 mhz slower" comparison for celerons is wholly inaccurate, but it sure is in my case
in sandra they compare the same clock for clock as it is just a bad benchmark. In most things like quake 3 or unreal tournament, or multimedia encoding there is the performance differance beteween the p3 and celeron that is equivalent to a 150-200mhz speed differance.
Your celeron at 1066 is probabally closer to a 900mhz p3 due to the higher bus speed, which is about 12% faster than a 800mhz p3. Now in a very few things this is not apparant due to maybe a gpu doing the calculations, but I can't think of anything that dosn't use the L2 cache (other than sandra) so the will be the performance gap. If you could have gotten that 600 you 900mhz or more then it would probabally outperform the celeron.
The Doors
06-26-01, 12:04 PM
Hi guys,
I've a C2 600 cb0 @907 1.8v, wired and lapped with wet/dry sandpaper grain 2000.
What do you think about very difficult reboot and freeze under 3DMark2001, not 2000, not Folding@home (works all day).....?
Now I'm looking for a used and cheaper P/// 700 from a not experienced OCer to compare the results.
Hey guys, 'member me ? I just wanted to let ya know I got my P3 700E yeasterday. I'm taking it slow on the OC. First boot was at 108 FSB. Ran FAH while cruisin' the forum last night. Ran a few minutes of Sandra Burn in Wizard then increased FSB to 117 at 1.65V (default for chip). Its a cB0 SL3xx, week 35. :Left it folding all last night and will be (I hope) til I get home. My ThermalRight SK6 should be delivered today. So I'm gonna soon see how high I can push the FSB. Using my old Step Thermodynamic Heatsink with a home-made 80mm adaptor, the temp never got above above 39C. Ambient temp was 24 and system temp 25C.
I played a little Soldier of fortune and it seemed to look better with this chip than with my Celeron 600 oc'd to 972MHz. More detail? Could that be attributed to the chip? Or is it just wishful thinking/placebo effect?
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