Slot or Socket?

[FrankMasterFlash]

I have decided to get a P3 700. I can't decided whether to go slot or socket. I have an asus S370-DL slotket and a PEP66T w/42.5 Sunon Fan /Fan adapter on it. I have a Slot 1 Asus P3B-F. The FCPGA chip cost about $10 more than Slot 1 from the place I am getting it from. But with the Slot 1 I have to spring for a new cooler(Vos32 or P3125). Since Slot 1 is fading out of existence, I was thinking Fcpga so I can use the cooler I already have and can upgrade to a new mobo in the future.
Is there any advantages by using Slot instead of a slotket.

[Placid]

No advantage using a slot type other than its easy to take in and out :)

[LutaWicasa]

Deffinately get the flipchip. With the slotket set-up it can be helpful for manipulating voltage.

[Phil]

Definately the fc-pga version as you get the voltage options plus heastsinks are much better.

[SP]

A slot1 processor is probably more stable as the length of the traces on the board the Chip is on are design and made by Intel to meet exact specifications and all slot1 motherboards are made to match up to them. When you use a slocket the length of the traces on the slocket will vary from that spec. That's one of the reasons Intel never supported the use of slockets.

[Phil]

that isn't true. Slockets have been tested and tested and there is no evidence that they affect stability at all. Intel doesn't support them because they want people to buy new boards not cheap $15 upgrades

[ken257]

Go the chip+slocket route. As said above it can aid in vcore settings to get you a higher OC. Plus what if you need a new mobo down the road a bit? Options for slot 1 mobos are almost non-existany anymore, all the top mobos are socket.

[FrankMasterFlash]

Thanks, I will go with Flip Chip because I already have the cooler for it and the slotket. Plus, slot 1 is fading out of existence.

[SP]

Phil (Jun 13, 2001 06:32 p.m.):
that isn't true. Slockets have been tested and tested and there is no evidence that they affect stability at all. Intel doesn't support them because they want people to buy new boards not cheap $15 upgrades

Actually there is evidence that slockets do affect stability. In a single processor system it's less pronounced and slockets are more likely to work. However, ask anyone who's ever attempted to use slockets in a dual slot1 motherboard how they affect stability. In a dual processor system timing is more critical. So, it has a more pronounced effect on stability. Anyway, this does at least demonstrate that slockets do slightly decrease stability. The extra length of the traces does make a difference. High frequency signals travel down the traces as waves and the length of those traces is tuned to the proper length for optimum performance.

I'm not saying that slockets won't work, nor am I saying that he shouldn't use slockets. In this case were talking about a single CPU system where we probably have more leeway for variance. Also, this probably isn't a mission critical system where absolute stability is of the essence. So, I think a slocket may be just fine. Also, slockets do make things like Vcore adjustment easier on some boards. So, for this application a slocket might be the best choice, but He asked if there were ANY advantages to a slot 1 processor over a slocket-FCPGA combination and stability is one advantage even though in this case the advantages of the slocket-FCPGA may outweigh it.

Another thing about using a slocket-FCPGA combo is that you have twice as many contact points. With a slot 1 processor in a slot 1 motherboard the only contact points are where the SECC2 edge connector contact points contact with the slot. The chip on a slot1 cpu is soldered onto the PCB. With a slocket-FCPGA combo you have the additional contact point between the pins of the FCPGA chip and the s370 socket it plugs into. Now, these contact points do have a small amount of resistance and across this resistance there would be a small amount of voltage drop and a tiny amount of signal degradation. This too could have a very slight impact on stability.

As for the idea of future upgradablity, the P6 family of processors is approaching the end of the line anyway and future processors aren't going to work in current s370 boards anyway. The only remaining P6 processor to be introduced will be tualatin and it isn't likely to work in any existing s370 boards anyway. So, why worry about upgradability to an s370 board. If you do upgrade to a new board it usually is to support a new processor. So, what difference would it make if your old processor doesn't work in it.

[most deaf]

slockets are good because there is more volatge adjustments

[Phil]

SP (Jun 14, 2001 03:05 a.m.):
Phil (Jun 13, 2001 06:32 p.m.):
that isn't true. Slockets have been tested and tested and there is no evidence that they affect stability at all. Intel doesn't support them because they want people to buy new boards not cheap $15 upgrades

Actually there is evidence that slockets do affect stability. In a single processor system it's less pronounced and slockets are more likely to work. However, ask anyone who's ever attempted to use slockets in a dual slot1 motherboard how they affect stability. In a dual processor system timing is more critical. So, it has a more pronounced effect on stability. Anyway, this does at least demonstrate that slockets do slightly decrease stability. The extra length of the traces does make a difference. High frequency signals travel down the traces as waves and the length of those traces is tuned to the proper length for optimum performance.

I'm not saying that slockets won't work, nor am I saying that he shouldn't use slockets. In this case were talking about a single CPU system where we probably have more leeway for variance. Also, this probably isn't a mission critical system where absolute stability is of the essence. So, I think a slocket may be just fine. Also, slockets do make things like Vcore adjustment easier on some boards. So, for this application a slocket might be the best choice, but He asked if there were ANY advantages to a slot 1 processor over a slocket-FCPGA combination and stability is one advantage even though in this case the advantages of the slocket-FCPGA may outweigh it.

Another thing about using a slocket-FCPGA combo is that you have twice as many contact points. With a slot 1 processor in a slot 1 motherboard the only contact points are where the SECC2 edge connector contact points contact with the slot. The chip on a slot1 cpu is soldered onto the PCB. With a slocket-FCPGA combo you have the additional contact point between the pins of the FCPGA chip and the s370 socket it plugs into. Now, these contact points do have a small amount of resistance and across this resistance there would be a small amount of voltage drop and a tiny amount of signal degradation. This too could have a very slight impact on stability.

As for the idea of future upgradablity, the P6 family of processors is approaching the end of the line anyway and future processors aren't going to work in current s370 boards anyway. The only remaining P6 processor to be introduced will be tualatin and it isn't likely to work in any existing s370 boards anyway. So, why worry about upgradability to an s370 board. If you do upgrade to a new board it usually is to support a new processor. So, what difference would it make if your old processor doesn't work in it.

In dual systems most of the problems come from either the slocket not being smp compatable or inadequate vrm's on the board for the coppermine. I have only ever seen one smp compatable slocket tested and this was the abit one which is actually considered unstable at higher speeds. I have read an article on some one using modifyed Iwills and he had no problems except when trying for a 133mhz fsb which was likely to be pushing the bx chipset to far as a lot of people know it can get hot in smp configs even at 100mhz with dual 500mhz cpus.
Any way he is only setting up an smp config where as long as he gets a quality named brand socket such as an Iwill or Asus then he will be fine.

[SP]

Yes, there are slockets that aren't smp compatable because they do not map certain pins needed for smp configuration correctly. However, that wasn't what I was refering to. There are slockets that do support smp and do map these pins correctly that have problems on certain smp motherboards and the reason is due to trace length. I've heard of many people being unable to get slockets (even smp compatible slockets that map the pins correctly and seem to work fine on other dual boards) to work on dual slot1 OR840 boards. Some boards are a little more picky about timing issues and slockets trace lengths can become an issue. The problems weren't associated with the VRMs on the boards either as these boards are designed for slot1 coppermines as well as 133Mhz FSB cpus. The fact that the trace lengths on slockets deviate slightly from spec does have some impact. For a sitaution like this with a single CPU system It may be insignicant but it may still have a very slight impact on stability or the ability to overclock.

Anyway, I agree that the origanl poster here would probably be okay with slockets and in his case that may even be the best solution due to the advantages that slockets do offer, but nonetheless I think if you had 2 absolutely equal processors, one slot1 and one FCPGA used with a slocket, and you tried both of them in a slot1 motherboard you would find that the slot1 processor would probably run stable at slightly higher FSB speeds than the FCPGA-slocket combo and would clock just a bit higher.

[Phil]

But the trace length is not much longer then on a slot 1 coppermine and I don't think it's a problem worth worrying about, it may be an issue if you had a board where you could overclock 1mhz at a time and you would probabally notice a few mhz differance between a slot 1 coppermine and s370/slocket but this isn't the case