when playing games is the cpu speed very important?

[AL Romero]

a friend is looking to get a second pc for gaming but has very lil money. i was thinking of telling him to get a new 1.8 duron and up the fsb a lil so its running around 2ghz and spend the money on a good vid card. is this wrong information?

[jonspd]

IMO the barton is a much better cpu for gaming coming from a gamer.

[Absolute Zero]

yeah that's right. people overvalue the cpu speed. i mean, sure, the final speed is important, but there are many other factors that affect that. one is fsb, but also ram amount, speed, ratios, and most importantly, ram timings can really affect gaming. also, of course, a good video card is important. if he can get 128 mb of ddr in a video card, he'd be set until the next generaton of pci express cards come out.

[dead_man311]

Id say get a barton, or a lower athlon or athlon XP with the 256 cache

my sister upgraded from a 1.3 Duron @ 1480Mhz to a Athlon 1333 today and at stock the athlon smoked the duron. right off the bat it start 5 time faster than th duron

[AL Romero]

i have a 1.6 duron and its not that much slower then my 2100. and yes i told him to get at least a 9600pro vid card. and i also told him to get ddr 400, a 512 stick. do you think this will be alright setup seeing as how he only has 500 or less to spend.

[jonspd]

IMO get the 2100 tbred or a 2500 barton oem @ least.

[timzak]

Will he be gaming with AA/AF enabled? If so, the video card's bandwidth will be limited before the cpu is.

With AA/AF disabled, I see big jump going from 1800/133 to 2000/200. With 4x AA and 8x AF, most games show the same framerates at 1800/133 and 2000/200.

[tom10167]

Does CPU speed matter? While playing UT2004 Demo, my 2500+ at 2.1ghz is running at 100%.


Yes.

[AL Romero]

i dont see an difference in fps with my duron vs 2100 tbred b

[AL Romero]

but i do see a small drop in 3dmark2001se, but its not enough to bitch about :D

[jonspd]

That's probably mostly due to the cache size difference of the 2 cpu's.

[AL Romero]

well yeah!!!

[stratcatprowlin]

I definitely think the video card has to come first then the cpu.

At the same time there is a huge difference in gameplay for me if i run my 2500 at 1.83ghz rather than 2.2!

Nowadays u have to have at least a decent midrange card to really play nicely.

If ur cpu isnt that fast u better have a 5700u 9600xt or better.

Forget about budget cards altogether, ur better off buyin an xbox!

[#18]

Originally posted by AL Romero
i have a 1.6 duron and its not that much slower then my 2100. and yes i told him to get at least a 9600pro vid card. and i also told him to get ddr 400, a 512 stick. do you think this will be alright setup seeing as how he only has 500 or less to spend.


500 or less to spend? What does he have? Monitor? Tower case/power supply? Hard disk? Keyboard/mouse? Speakers? Anything?

Well $500 is enough to spend on just CPU, memory, motherboard, video card. It's enough to build one decent gaming rig, but it's far from enough if you start with nothing.

It is a better idea if you state what your friend has already. So we'll give good suggestions that fit his budget.

[stratcatprowlin]

Hey #18,can i come to your house to play games? lol
nice rig!

[AL Romero]

#18 u need to shop the net a lil more dogg. **** out there is cheap!!! 500 is more then enough to build an athlon based system. he is limited in funds so he cant just go out and get the best thing on the market right now cat he? i told him to save a lil more and get a a64 but hes needs it now.

[AL Romero]

oh ya. i also told him the new video gpus will be out in a few months but again he said he need something very soon.

[dead_man311]

i just build a Athlon XP 2000 oc'ed to 2Ghz, with 256mb PC-2100, 40gb, dvd/cdrw combo, nice gigabyte board, with a window case with a 350 watt ps, 64mb video card for $427 shipped, keyboard and mouse you can pick up cheap and used moniter from a local store are usally cheap to

so $500 you can build a nice gaming system online

[9mmCensor]

Yes and know, because you cant go to extreams, because it is a computer "system" so everything needs to work and work well to have good preformance.

Even with a 9800XT you dont want to use a T-Bird 850mhz chip, because the things games use the CPU for will suck. But you certainly dont need a FX-51. Its all about balance.

The videocard is very important, because they are getting so fast, and developers are harnessing the GPUs power more and more, unlike old engines like Quake3 that used the CPU alot.

[9mmCensor]

Originally posted by dead_man311
i just build a Athlon XP 2000 oc'ed to 2Ghz, with 256mb PC-2100, 40gb, dvd/cdrw combo, nice gigabyte board, with a window case with a 350 watt ps, 64mb video card for $427 shipped, keyboard and mouse you can pick up cheap and used moniter from a local store are usally cheap to

so $500 you can build a nice gaming system online
you will need more RAM, 256 would suck for modern games.

[I.M.O.G.]

512 RAM is the minimum you should have with XP. 256 doesn't give it as much as it would like. I have a gig, right now I'm hardly running anything, and I supertweaked my services running in the background. Just under 300 megs of ram used right now.

My r9700 pro with 1800+ pally plays everything super... But I'm upgrading my CPU so I can reap the full benefits of the card by the time DoomIII comes out. I assume that I would still be okay with what I have though.

If you have to make the choice between a moderate CPU or a moderate vid card and your a gamer, I would get a moderate CPU with a GOOD vid card.

[dead_man311]

Originally posted by 9mmCensor

you will need more RAM, 256 would suck for modern games.

i only put 256mb in it since office max runs realy good deals on PC-2100 i figured id up it later. but normaly id recomend 512mb

[timzak]

I just tested my Pally 1800+ at 1700Mhz (148x11.5) and with 4X AA the cpu is out of the equation again. In other words, with 4X AA, I get identical framerates between 1700Mhz, 1800Mhz, and 2000Mhz.

Of course, with AA disabled, there's a pretty noticeable difference in game framerates between the 3 cpu speeds above.

[tom10167]

Another note, I ran Task Manager while playing UT2004 Demo, I then looked at the graphs after a few minutes.

Memory - 221 megs, not increasing whatsoever.

CPU - 100% the WHOLE time.

[SnComet2]

My vote goes for either an xp2000 (51 dollars), a regular 2500 (76 dollars), or a mobile 2400 w/512k 1.45v (77 dollars). That's not too much more for something that would be alot better than having the 39 dollar duron.

[ZachM]

Go for 512 MB of RAM. I used to have 256 MB and UT 2003 would take twice as long to load at the start of a level compared to 512 MB. It also would glitch occasionally during game play with 256 MB.

IMO if he can't get a Barton 2500 and a decent vid card, downgrade the processor to a 2000 so he can get the vid card. My 2100 at stock speed would handle every game I played just fine.

[stratcatprowlin]

I agree the xp2000 and go for the best video card u can afford is a good cheap combo.

[Fleck]

I think what you need for comfortable gaming today is something running around 2.4GHz (2400+, whateva), a 9500Pro (at least), 512MB RAM, and any 7200RPM ATA100 drive.

[#18]

Originally posted by stratcatprowlin
Hey #18,can i come to your house to play games? lol
nice rig!

sure thing. :p Just one problem, I'll have to kick you off the main system which is sitting in my bedroom. ;) My main system in my sig below was upgraded into this state almost 9 months ago, well besides RAM sticks was switched from 1GB Corsair PC3200 not too long ago. The other computers still have good CPUs and video cards, but not nearly as good speakers and monitors. You may call 17 inch trinitron decent, but not 2-piece no name crappy speakers lol.



Originally posted by AL Romero
#18 u need to shop the net a lil more dogg. **** out there is cheap!!! 500 is more then enough to build an athlon based system. he is limited in funds so he cant just go out and get the best thing on the market right now cat he? i told him to save a lil more and get a a64 but hes needs it now.

I don't know just how do you buy all the stuff include monitors, speakers, case/PSU, everything with only $500? Well he wants a decent gaming rig, which I can't imagine anything less than a 17 inch trinitron and a surrounding sound system can still be decent.
And you people are suggesting Radeon 9500Pro/9600XT, how much do you expect him have left out of the $500? If he has nothing to start with.

Persionally I would recommend no less than a Barton 2500+(probably a mobile since it seems they have better overclocking resaults), Radeon 8500LE/9100 or Geforce4 Ti4200(what should I say? CPU technology improves much slower than video cards. He can always grab a 9800Pro a year later for really cheap. While the a few dollars save off the CPU really isn't worth the performance hit. Barton worth every cent.). 512MB low latency PC3200 or PC3500. A good motherboard is also very important. Try to get one OEM Audigy 2 and a cheap speaker systems with subwoofer. You can also find good brand 17 inch trinitron for under $150. For the rest part, some places sell tower cases along with 300~350W PSU for $50 or less. Get a 40GB hard disk should be enough for now. His budget is about to meet the limit. So DVD-ROM, keyboard/mouse etc depend his own decision. To me I will never play games without wireless opitical mouse. Oh and don't forget the operating system. Better be XP/2k.

[johan851]

CPU technology improves much slower than video cards. He can always grab a 9800Pro a year later for really cheap. While the a few dollars save off the CPU really isn't worth the performance hit. Barton worth every cent.).
That's a good point. You can get a slower CPU now (Duron 1.8 as opposed to Barton 2500+) and save maybe $40. Alternatively, you can grab a Ti4200 now (very good budget card) and save about $100 or more over a Radeon 9600 Pro, let alone something like a 9700/9800.

There's a fine line between budget and overly cheap. Saving $100, or whatever it is, by getting a 2500+ instead of a 3000+ is a good idea, whereas saving $40 by getting a Duron 1.8 instead of a 2500+ isn't really worth it.

[stratcatprowlin]

Btw #18,If thats u in ur avatar space im callin u #1 from now on!

[#18]

Yeah you wish. :) What was your real purpose for asking to come over?

[stratcatprowlin]

Originally posted by #18
Yeah you wish. :) What was your real purpose for asking to come over?

lol sorry to get off topic!

you definitely need some $$$ for a decent gaming machine.

[dippy_skoodlez]

Originally posted by AL Romero
a friend is looking to get a second pc for gaming but has very lil money. i was thinking of telling him to get a new 1.8 duron and up the fsb a lil so its running around 2ghz and spend the money on a good vid card. is this wrong information?

I would maybe go with an Athlon 2000+ for the cheap, and beef up video/ram. will help more. although, a good cpu helps, but having 384mb ram vs. 256 is more of a difference.

[AL Romero]

dude, r u for real? #18 this is what i told him to think about getting:

and athlon 2400
abit nf7-s ver2
crucial 512mb ddr 40omhz
ati 9600pro 128mb not 256mb
lite-on cd-rom
floppy
2 80mm case fans
1 thermaltake smart fan
wd 40gb 7200rpm 8mb cache
thermaltake slk800
and some case that he like somewhere
total shipped came to $415.03

look around #18 this suff is out there cheap!!!!

[AL Romero]

most of the **** was from newegg. yeah most of it is oem and not retail but who the fuc* cares if you get an oem product. i dont, do you?

[barton2500]

Pretty nice..just a few suggestions

mobile XP2500 OC better than desktop XP2400. If you are getting XP2400, do not get a locked one. The high multiplier means you are stuck with low FSB. XP2500 is better of this, and of course mobile XP2500 will OC better than desktop one(read the thread on the 2.6/2.7 GHz mobile XP)

At least get a DVD-ROM instead of CDROM. It's not worth saving the money by getting a plain CDROM. Maybe CDRW or DVD/CDRW combo drive?

Radeon9700 instead of Radeon9600Pro. Just look at some benchmarks and you'll see why.

[TheTick]

AL stop double posting for the love of god, its driving me nutz. Anyone else notice this?

Anyways, you can get some decent 400 mhz valueram, a decent 1800+ or 2000+ , a decent vid card, 4200 or even a 9500 pro, and if he has a case, then hes mint. Might need to change out the psu though, depending on what else he might need to power, and if you OC it at all.

[AL Romero]

he doesnt wanna OC so he says. but as u can see i hooked him up with products that will OC if the time should come.

Baron2500: he only wants a cd-rom. i thought it was crazy myself be if thats what he wants then thats what hes gunn get :D oh ya thanks for the info on the cpu, i forgot i told him to get a 2500 non-mobile.

[AL Romero]

hehe sorry tick, i will try to stop just for you...MUAHHH

[TheTick]

"Abit NF7-S v2.0,Duron 1.6G @ 206.72 FSB x 12 LOCK multi (2480.72Mhz) @ 2.0vcore,14C idle temp on air w/ Tornado "

What cooling are you using? That seems very very low

[#18]

Well try to change your friend's mind about switch to a DVD-ROM. Show him it's only going to cost $30~40 to buy one, save such little tiny amount isn't worth anything. How much does a CD-ROM cost? And future games may come with DVD instead of CDs. Well UT2k4 is going to be one of them already. Besides he can watch DVD movies with the same computer.

Well 9600Pro isn't that much difference in performance compare to Ti4200. Execpt with AA and AF, or DirectX 9.0. On the other hand, a Radeon 9800Pro will make huge difference in every way. You probably can grab one for around $100 a year later.
Mobile Barton xp2500 is going to make a difference with extra cache and overclocking ability, and 2400+ isn't much cheap, is it?

Does you friend have a monitor and speaker? You just can't enjoy games with 15 inch monitor and 2-piece speakers. And he'll use onboard sound? It will eat up CPU resource.

[Foxie3a]

I'm too lazy to read all this, but thought that I would voice my opinion on here anyway, maybe SOMEONE will end up reading it.

I have come to learn that CPU speed does have some importance, but its not just the CPU that matters.

I'll say that with games, the FSB does not count. When I say FSB I am meaning the speed of the RAM to the chipset, to the CPU. In turn, that comes up to be the CPU's speed, and the Ram's speed, unless if your on an unlocked processor.

you don't need fast ram, you need a good quantity of it. Don't try gaming wiht 128mb. 256mb is good for most, but some, actually, a very few actually need 512. 512 is being pretty safe, but I'd say 256 is enough, and pretty much any speed, yes, even PC2100.

A CPU doesn't really matter too much, depending on the game, I'd say anywhere from a Athlon 1.2ghz+, to a P3 1.2ghz+ or a P4 2ghz+ would be good enough for most anything.

The most important thing would be the video card. That is what you NEED. I'd only go with Radeons now. The 9600se is a good card for so cheap, but it is SE, and is almost not worth talking about. My card of choice now would be the Radeon 9600 Pro 256mb. That's about $100 now, and is a good card for the money. With a little OCing, and a good heatsink...it could be a beast.

So a Athlon 1700/256mb PC2700/ Radeon 9600pro 256, A very cheap system, yet it would be very good at pretty much anything you throw at it.

[AL Romero]

im using a slk-7 with a tornado 80mm fan and some custom ducting inside the case as well as ducting outside the case to the window so she gets cool fresh air from outside.


edit:

these new durons run alont cooler than tbred b's too. my 2100 runs at about 20-30 idle with the same cooling and almost the same vcore.