This is what the Laing D4 (DangerDen 12V) Pump sounds like [Archive]

Cathar

03-03-04, 04:38 PM

Okay, this is what the pumps sound like. Now I have two pumps here, one is slightly louder than the other one. I used the quieter one for this test. The pumps/fans were sat atop vibration deadening foam in a quiet room. The microphone was positioned 10cm (4") from the thing making the noise.

http://www.employees.org/~slf/pumpfans.wav

Approximate times within the sound clip:

0-7.5s - Laing D4 (DD 12V) Pump at 12V
7.5-15s - Laing D4 (DD 12V) Pump at 16V
15-22.5s - Generic 3000RPM 80mm Axial Case Fan
22.5-30s - YSTech 4500RPM 60mm Axial Fan
30-38s - Papst 612NGML 60mm 2500RPM Axial Fan

Now I don't pretend that I have a noise floor much below 30dBA so you can get a good guage for the relative volumes by listening to the Papst fan (the last sound section) which is noticably audible in a quiet room from 1m (3') away, despite it carrying a 20dBA rating by the manufacturer.

MameXP

03-03-04, 04:44 PM

OMG that thing is LOUD!

Soja

03-03-04, 04:57 PM

Hrm, not THAT loud compared to the fans. The sound of the pitch seems really high and irritating though. And that's the quieter pump!? Do you run the pump in your external box Cathar? How noticeable (from distance) is the pump enclosed? I imagine it stands out because of the shriek :eek:

Cathar

03-03-04, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Soja
Hrm, not THAT loud compared to the fans. The sound of the pitch seems really high and irritating though. And that's the quieter pump!? Do you run the pump in your external box Cathar? How noticeable (from distance) is the pump enclosed? I imagine it stands out because of the shriek :eek:

That's what I've been saying. The pump is not hellishly loud - but has that annoying whine. That YSTech fan is (freaking) annoying even on a heatsink inside a closed case. I had it installed a while back on a second machine until I got watercooling organised for that machine, and I was extremely glad to be rid of it. Even the generic 80mm case-fan, which I do have running in my case, is the single most annoying piece of fan-based noise that is emitted from my entire setup.

Like I said in the other thread, the D4 is maybe 1/4-1/3 as noisy as the high-speed 60mm fans, but that still makes it quite noticable even when inside a closed metal case.

When inside the closed MDF radiator box it's quiet enough to not be too annoying, but it's still quite noticable. Now annoying is a matter of subjective/personal opinion. I've had people come by and ask me how I stand the noise, when to me it's bearable, and then I've had others who come around and marvel at how quiet my system is (while achieving 2800+MHz overclocks).

PolarExpress

03-03-04, 05:48 PM

I can't here anything over my fans (not joking), can't wait to finish my WC setup!!

I have my Mag3 running on the kitchen counter and it's vibrating pretty good, but still sounds much better.

RockerII

03-03-04, 06:15 PM

How would it sound submerged?

BillA

03-03-04, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by RockerII
How would it sound submerged?
POP !

as in circuit breaker

be cool

AngryAlpaca

03-03-04, 08:21 PM

What? Not for submerged use? What a scam. I think my sound isn't turned up enough... That was much quieter than my other fans... But, a hum like that from a pump... That's just not right.

kct2

03-03-04, 08:29 PM

Thanks for doing all that work Cathar.

I ran that file through frequency analysis software and found these peaks and the SPL* of that frequency:

1) D4 12v: 870.8 Hz @ -73 dBA
2) D4 16v: 2.142 KHz @ -72 dBA
3) 80mm: 312.3 Hz @ -63 dBA
4) YStech: 518.4 Hz @ -63 dBA
5) Pabst: 245.3 Hz @ -75 dBA

The overall SPL* for each part of the file is this:

1) -49 dBA
2) -42 dBA
3) -46 dBA
4) -39 dBA
5) -48 dBA

*These SPL’s are relevant for this sound file only, and should NOT be used to compare against other published ratings.

The SPL levels were not constant; there was a fluctuation of about +/- 2 dBA. I simply randomly sampled each segment of the file to get these readings. The program I used was DesktopRTA (http://www.4pockets.com/software_info.php?par=DesktopRTA&pro=&pid=48) (demo version) using the default FFT settings. I used the 1/12 Octave setting, and A-weighting on the dB scale.

Would it be possible to get a recording of a MCP600? I don’t think it would be possible to fairly compare to these recordings unless a) Cathar recorded it with the same setup; or b) the background noise was completely deleted from both files and the levels normalized. But it would still be interesting to hear it and see the frequency analysis for that pump.

BeerHunter

03-03-04, 08:48 PM

why not just get an ehiem? It's silent after I did propellor mod. I guess if you need the higher pressures its not an option but I for one would like to thank all who have gone before me, and bothered to take the time to write about it. Dead silent at 3am in my room.

kct2

03-03-04, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by BeerHunter
why not just get an ehiem?

1) It's AC - I really want a DC pump and eliminate the relay from my system

2) It's very big.

I'm sure other people can think of other reasons, but those are mine.
:)

AngryAlpaca

03-03-04, 09:18 PM

Well, there's raw strength, and there's pump heat, and there's also the DC power. Eheims seems to be really good quality, though. As time goes on, this pump looks worse and worse. If you do the calculations, the flow differences between pumps is really small, and the temperature differences from those is really small, and pump heat constitutes a small amount, due to high performance radiators, and low heat difference. This pump is also expensive, and sucks around 1.5 amps out of your PSU, and whiny to boot.

BeerHunter

03-03-04, 09:20 PM

Ya there's plenty of reasons not to like it...but

1. They make DC model.
2. It's bigness helps it's quietness or should I say it's mass does.:)

AngryAlpaca

03-03-04, 09:29 PM

http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HSPC&Product_Code=Bin1046DC&Category_Code=Bin The only one I could find. 69 dollars, for a 1046, REFURBISHED. Size has very little to do with the vibration, as most pump materials move the vibration very quickly. I like Swiftech's idea of putting a neoprene pad with their pumps.

Cathar

03-03-04, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by kct2
Thanks for doing all that work Cathar.

I ran that file through frequency analysis software and found these peaks and the SPL* of that frequency:

If you run it through Media Player, and select "Bars->Ocean Mist", I find that gives a really good visualisation of the pitch of the sounds across the spectrum range. It's quite obvious by looking at the output that anything in the left half of the visual output is just really low frequency background ambient noise, but the upper half is where the action is.

felinusz

03-03-04, 09:47 PM

Yikes.

I couldn't stand having that in my system. One of the reasons I moved to water was for the near-silent, sub 35 dB noise levels. Makes it a lot easier to sleep without being messed up in the morning.

I wonder how Danger Den's sales of these are looking?

Personally, I'm quite partial to using a relay, and wouldn't consider buying this pump with the intention of running it off of my PSU. I don't like the idea of my pump drawing power from my PSU; the relay isn't too big a space waster, and certainly isn't a hassle for me.

kct2

03-03-04, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by BeerHunter
Ya there's plenty of reasons not to like it...but

1. They make DC model.
2. It's bigness helps it's quietness or should I say it's mass does.:)

I never said I didn't like it - It's definately perfect for certain implementations - just not mine.

- The only DC model I have seen is from Innovatek (here (http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HSPC&Product_Code=HPPSDC&Category_Code=Pump) ) and therefore it includes an 8mm output, and it seems to be even bigger than a regular, AC, Eheim pump.

- There are other quiet pumps; it doesn't have to be big to be quiet. You're right, it does help, but not necessary.

Originally posted by Cathar

If you run it through Media Player, and select "Bars->Ocean Mist", I find that gives a really good visualisation of the pitch of the sounds across the spectrum range. It's quite obvious by looking at the output that anything in the left half of the visual output is just really low frequency background ambient noise, but the upper half is where the action is.

I found that too -but I liked being able to get actual number out of that other program...

Originally posted by felinusz

Personally, I'm quite partial to using a relay, and wouldn't consider buying this pump with the intention of running it off of my PSU. I don't like the idea of my pump drawing power from my PSU; the relay isn't too big a space waster, and certainly isn't a hassle for me.

I just don't like the relay, just something else to fail. Not likely with a solid state relay, but you never know...

With a high quality, high wattage power supply, I wouldn't be too concerned about overloading it with a DC pump. I don't know what the actual startup current is, but I'm willing to bet it isn't enough to cause a problem. Maybe I'm wrong, and DC pumps will cause PS failures due to high startup currents, but I doubt it.

pauldenton

03-04-04, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by kct2

I never said I didn't like it - It's definately perfect for certain implementations - just not mine.

- The only DC model I have seen is from Innovatek (here (http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HSPC&Product_Code=HPPSDC&Category_Code=Pump) ) and therefore it includes an 8mm output, and it seems to be even bigger than a regular, AC, Eheim pump.

pretty sure the 8mm output is just a screw in fitting - you can just replace it with a barb of your choice.....

situman

03-05-04, 09:15 AM

anybody kno where i can get an innovatek pump since its sold out at the link provided by kct2

Busty St. Clair

03-10-04, 08:22 PM

o u think that if i were to stick the pump in a wooden box lined with egg carton foam with 2 holes for the hoses that it would cut out a majority of that sound pressure

[O-CuK]Marci

03-15-04, 08:52 AM

There's alsorts you can do to silence any pump by putting it in the correct enclosure with the correct sound damping materials... do a google on DIY & budget soundproofing for home studio enthusiasts. Assess the frequency(s) you want to isolate/remove, and choose your soundproofing material accordingly. I tend to find roofing felt as a base with dampening foam on top does a good job at cutting out a lot of pump noise... sat on 10mm rubber standoffs to eliminate vibrations thru the case...

However, that all adds to the size of the pump and makes it harder to locate within a case...

[O-CuK]Marci

03-15-04, 08:57 AM

One piece of info that would be handy tho is the make n' model of the mic they were recorded with as each mic will have it's own characteristics and frequency limitations... or a rough idea of diaphragm size on the mic used if it's an inbuilt minidisc recorder or similar...

pauldenton

03-15-04, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by [O-CuK]Marci
One piece of info that would be handy tho is the make n' model of the mic they were recorded with as each mic will have it's own characteristics and frequency limitations... or a rough idea of diaphragm size on the mic used if it's an inbuilt minidisc recorder or similar...

iirc it was from a phone headset (came up on OCAU)

Joe Camel

04-03-04, 04:13 PM

Cathar, (anyone who cares to take a guess/knows)

since i know you have tested this pump @16V, i have a few questions:

1) what do you think the life expectancy of the pump would be @16V? (this will be on 24/7 folding.)

2) is it worth it to run @16? (it will be in a loop with a cascade ONLY, no rads.)

3) if DD only has 1/2" in/out, (i asked to get 3/4" but they might not have any) will this hurt performance A LOT?

4) will this work to run it @16?:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2004040315591574&item=15-1158&catname=electric

thanks for any input.

glass19

09-09-04, 08:19 PM

Hey all, I just joinned and was just wondering if by any chance the DD4 pump would be more than efficient for my water cooling setup....

Swiftech MCW5002-PT
Criticool Water Plant Reseviour
Thermochill 120.3 Radiator
1/2 Tygon tubing
Pump - I was looking at the DD4 pump or the Hydor L35
------------------------------------------------------------------------

computer setup...

P4 3.2 HT Northwood
Abit - IC7-G
ATI 9800 Pro
1 gig of OCZ Ram Gold Edition Pc4000
Western Digital 200 gig 8 meg cache 7200 RPM hooked into Serial ATA converter.
Sb live! 2 ZS

All products except the pump are final...so I just want to ask

WIll the DD4 pump be a good pump for my setup?

thanks!

Busty St. Clair

09-09-04, 09:19 PM

both have their ups and downs for instant the dd4 has more head but also dumps alot more heat into the loop so its for u to decide

martindemon

09-09-04, 09:54 PM

Cathar, those audio files are very interresting and will help me choose my future pump. But my quest is for silence before performance and I was looking at the MCP600 as an alternative. But I was wondering, how the MCP600 would compare to a MCP650 at 7V?
I would be very interrested to hear a sound file of that Laing D4 at 7V (not necessarily with a potentiometer as you would need a very massive one) but by using the "+5V +12V" trick. Do you still have the D4 installed?

glass19

09-09-04, 10:09 PM

what exactly does more "head" mean? And just how much heat are we talking about...

I will be cooling just the p4 with the 226 watt pelt from swiftech...and the radiator is the Thermochill 120.3...a goliath of a radiator...I would imagine that the heat from the pump dd4 won't be so bad due to the large radiator right?

Cathar

09-09-04, 10:21 PM

Wow - talk about digging up an old thread eh?

The newer muffled D4's are substantially weaker than the original loud D4's. In fact, the newer muffled D4's (MCP650) are no longer more powerful than the old Swiftech MCP600 excepting in very low restriction setups.

The newer D4's do still whine to a noticable extent, but it is not as loud as the original pumps. Some people claim that the pumps are quiet but this is, as always, a relative and often subjective thing.

I'll be doing a full comparison of the 12v pumps I have at my disposal as soon as my latest baby arrives. Sorry, I do not have the CSP750 pumps at my disposal, and nor am I particularly interested in them. I have an inherent distrust of anodised aluminium, no matter what a manufacturer says. Anti-corrosion additives also only serve to lower the thermal properties of water (also regardless of what a manufacturer will say), and so I don't personally consider anodised aluminium products with corrosion inhibitor as an acceptable situation - but that's just my opinion - people's are always free to disagree with me.

Here's something I posted at Procooling.com about the new pump I have coming:

Heard about these about 2yrs back, and have been curious about them ever since. Well my curiosity has gotten the better of me and I've ordered one of these:

March 893-09 (http://www.marchpump.com/893.htm)

http://www.marchpump.com/images/brushless2.jpg

Yes - the model number on the picture is a typo.

Very small. 10cm long x 7cm high x 6cm wide.

Being an industry quality pump, has a fully qualified 50,000hrs MTBF with a fully sealed (and submersible) brushless DC motor.

12VDC. 12W peak power consumption in wide-open mode. I would imagine it would draw less when operating against resistance.

According to the sales engineer who has heard both, says it's near silent and quite a deal quieter than the Laing D4.

It has a peak pressure and flow rate very similar to the old Swiftech MCP600, but it's PQ curve is more attractive than the MCP600 with it still offering very good pressure (~2.15mH2O) at 2gpm, unlike the MCP600's ~1.5mH2O.

http://www.marchpump.com/images/1c.gif

For moderate to highly restrictive systems, the PQ curve implies that it would offer flow rates that very closely matches the newer muffled Laing D4 revisions at anything up to around 8LPM (~2.1GPM), and still be drawing substantially less power, and due to the separated magnetic armature (like the MCP600's had) be putting less heat into the water as well (I would estimate about half).

The pump comes with either 3/8" or 1/2" OD outlets, and people can fit whatever barb size they want on the inlet. Personally I'll be fitting a 5/8" OD barb on the inlet.

Rated voltage operational range is 7-14v.

Once I get this baby I'll assemble a full 12v pump lineup review which will include the following:

Davies-Craig EBP (Australian automotive cooling system booster pump)
Swiftech MCP600
Swiftech MCP650
Laing D4 (original non-muffled version)
March 893-09-1/2 (1/2" outlet version of 893)

Will assess peak flow, peak pressure, pump power draw, pump power->water heat transfer ratio, and measured flow rates in a full system, along with estimated flow rates for some hypothetical systems.

Only drawback is the price. $125US for a single pump through the local USA reseller I tried. I would imagine that in bulk with the "usual" water-cooling market tight margins, a company might be able to offer it for ~$100US if sourced direct from the manufacturer.

Cathar

09-09-04, 10:25 PM

what exactly does more "head" mean? And just how much heat are we talking about...

More "head" means more pumping pressure - resulting in the ability to push more flow through restrictions. Pump "head" (pressure) varies according to the actual flow rate, and a plot of a pump's pressure/flow characteristics is known as a PQ curve. Look to my post above for an example of a PQ curve (for the March 893-09 in this instance).

Heat:

~9W added to the loop for an MCP600 in a "typical" sort of application
~15-16W added to the loop for an MCP650/Laing D4 in a typical application

If you have a "monster" radiator, the extra 6-7W of heat is unlikely to be noticed.

Cathar

09-09-04, 10:29 PM

But I was wondering, how the MCP600 would compare to a MCP650 at 7V?
I would be very interrested to hear a sound file of that Laing D4 at 7V (not necessarily with a potentiometer as you would need a very massive one) but by using the "+5V +12V" trick. Do you still have the D4 installed?

An MCP650 @ 7v is about as powerful as an Eheim 1046

I have a lab bench PSU which can supply any voltage from 0-16v and drive up to 25A sustained (30A peak), and this is what I use for my testing purposes.

martindemon

09-09-04, 10:36 PM

Thanks for the comparison with the Eheim in terms of flow/head :attn: But do the D4 at 7V make more noise than the unmodified Eheim 1048? I speak about unmodified 1048 because I have absolutely no idea how I could make the 1048 quieter... Is it easy? That pump is big but I could accept it if it's the quietest and as reliable as the D4.

glass19

09-09-04, 10:41 PM

Cathar

09-09-04, 10:49 PM

Of the Eheim pumps I've owned (E1048/E1250), I personally liked the 1048 the best for use with water-cooling.

I could not hear the E1048 whatsoever, except when sitting on the hard wooden floor when you could hear a slight rumble from the transmitted vibrations. The D4 @ 7V would still be making more noise than the E1048.

However, you're asking about the Laing D4 @ 7V, and at 7V it is only about as powerful as the Eheim 1046, not the Eheim 1048. The Eheim 1046 is smaller than the E1048, and it is from all accounts even quieter. I have not personally handled one though.

Given a choice between the D4 @ 7v or the Eheim 1046, I'd probably take the E1046 because it's smaller and quieter, with the only drawback being the mains powered thing. There actually is a 12v version of the Eheim 1046 available, but you'll need to import it from Europe and they cost around 75 Euro plus tax and shipping.

Cathar

09-09-04, 10:59 PM

Hrm...I really starting to question my Hydor L35 choice....i haven't placed the order yet....

Perhaps i'm just over analyising? My original decision is to go with the Hydor L35....but I see hardly anyone talking about it...and when they do speak of the Hydor L35 they always compare it to the DD4 and that the DD4 is a better pump to go with...

WHY?

Via, Hydor, Mag-Drive, etc, are all okay pumps for their intended application, which is typically sitting inside and aquarium or pond where the cheapness of their build quality doesn't really get noticed, nor is it a big issue if they fail.

The problem with the cheapie AC pumps is long term reliability. Sure there are people who have them who haven't seen an issue in years, then there are the not all that infrequent stories of impellors rattling, shafts breaking, seals leaking, casings cracking, etc.

Going with a super-cheap budget pump means that you are taking a risk. The level of risk is up to you. These pumps may come with warrantee's but that's only a manufacturer cost/failure calculated figure, and has little to do with the actual quality of the pump. The manufacturer doesn't care if the pump stops and your CPU fries itself - they only care that the rate of pump failure returns for the last 3 month period isn't exceeding some set internal limit.

There's a reason why certain manufacturers are associated with quality.

glass19

09-09-04, 11:25 PM

okay so the Hydor L35 is a nice pump but it is considered a "budget pump?"

hrm.... that would mean the DD4 is probably a bit better..? you get what you pay for with pumps right? dd4 is around 75 us dollars and the Hydor L35 is about 55 bux or so?

Hrm...perhaps I should go with the DD4 eh?

I'm really not cutting too many corners here with my setup...why stop at the pump...i need to get a really good pump to fit inline with my very good water cooling setup..thus far of course.

Section8

09-09-04, 11:41 PM

King_Of_Pain

09-10-04, 12:03 AM

Ok so you say the D4 is one of the best out there, how is the swiftech 650 in comparison? I was looking at a kit that came with this pump.

http://swiftnets.com/products/h20-120-0.asp#1

Giblet Plus!

09-10-04, 12:35 AM

I'm leak testing with mine now, the hum is noticible, but I am sure I will not hear it once I get the 15k rpm raptor spinning again :attn:

thorilan

09-10-04, 03:32 AM

the quietest of all the pumps i have tried so far is definately the L35 for anyone interested BUT you must have a properly configured and bled system. it even beat ehiem by just a tad. Note i have been using a lot of hydors so i know how to install and bleed for them which so far i have met none else that could do it as well as i can ( over 112 systems made and more than 80% hydors)

situman

09-10-04, 09:40 AM

mata2974

09-10-04, 02:06 PM

On a side note, congradulations Cathar...for the "Blue Stars" you are now wearing, we all appreciate your help. :clap: :clap:

Giblet Plus!

09-10-04, 03:02 PM

BillA

09-10-04, 03:36 PM

who here could know ?
why not ask who you bought it from ?
the pump has a specific part # on the label

Giblet Plus!

09-10-04, 04:24 PM

who here could know ?
why not ask who you bought it from ?
the pump has a specific part # on the label

you and cathar spring to mind... ;)

I bought it through dangerden, and quite frankly they don't know what they're doing there, they sent variations of the wrong pump twice before I got the one I ordered. Swiftech didn't have it yet when I ordered, and anyways I wanted the 3/4" version.

the part number on the unit is 69900, model number is D4-34/810N, sn is 5635172

It does seem a little loud (which I expected) which might mean it is the original version cathar was talking about.

BillA

09-10-04, 04:43 PM

date of mfgr ? must be before 6/04 - but I've no idea how long before

Cathar

09-10-04, 06:30 PM

Hey Cathar where did you find this pump at? I'm looking to replace my two MCP600s. Iwakis are too big and this pumps looks perfect size wise. Waiting for your results and hopefully they turn out well.

From here (http://www.depcopump.com/)

Catalog page is here (http://www.depcopump.com/catalog205/66.pdf)

Cathar

09-10-04, 06:42 PM

date of mfgr ? must be before 6/04 - but I've no idea how long before

My strong D4's are labelled 1/04. I think the intermediate muffled pumps were made starting at 3/04.

So basically 1/04 or earlier to be safe if you wanted the strong ones.

situman

09-10-04, 07:05 PM

ehhh i'll save the money to get ur waterblocks instead. hate to waste money and get the wrong pump.

Giblet Plus!

09-10-04, 08:50 PM

date of mfgr ? must be before 6/04 - but I've no idea how long before

it is 6/04

glass19

09-11-04, 02:18 AM

Hydor L35 or The DD4...man...I just don't know. I want the best...both would fit in my case perfect...both have great reviews....however...i hear that people will still just take the DD4 over the Hydor L35....

Heat wise..i'll be using the Thermochill 120.3 Radiator...its huge....so i don't think that pump heat is really a bit issue.....

noise...eh..i'm coming from a Tornado 80mm fan...and anything quieter than say...54-43 db would be pretty damn quiet to my ears...

I'm using 1/2 inch Tygon tubing...and the Criticool WaterPlant reseviour...the reseviour will be right in line with the pump...like you could almost connect ( and i probably will) about 2 inches of tubing between the reseviour and the pump...I guess in this case I'd be getting good flow from reseviour to pump right?

Still the benefits of using the Hydor L35..dependable...has made a name for itself...small..effecient..quiet...good flow rate...I can plug this bad boy into my aux plug in on my Vantec Stealth PSU 520watt.....so it will also turn on with my computer.

DD4 has earned bragging rights...small...a bit more heat comes out than they hyodr L35 but nothing to be iffy about....no noise...good Max Head room......uses a 12volt PSU molex connector....

I do plan on adding a VGA cooler in the not so distant future....maybe...just maybe a NB cooler. I just want to make sure that I get the best. My system will be setup for hi-flow....only thing I can see slowing it down would be the Thermochil 120.3 radiator...like i said before..its huge...can hole 3 120mm fans and use the other side for mounting or even use up to 6 120mm fans....

Opinions? I really need to make a choice.

Please tell me which one out of the 2...the DD4 or the Hydor L35 and why??

thanks!

danman81

09-11-04, 05:55 PM

i have the old d4 pump and makes a pretty annoying high pitches squeeel, but i have it hooked up to a rheobus and it makes the sounds much more managable. but a single channel does not apply the full amount of power it can handle. is it possible to hook it up to 2 channels of the rheobus in parrallel if the voltages are the same? will it damage the pump?

Don K

10-26-04, 03:31 AM

The newer D4's do still whine to a noticable extent, but it is not as loud as the original pumps. Some people claim that the pumps are quiet but this is, as always, a relative and often subjective thing.

I'd say! The whine is driving me mad (not to metion the missus) :rolleyes: (i have the "muffled" version)

I noticed two pins emerging from the pump itself. They're like the ones on a Hdd. They are not metioned in the manual. Do you know what they are for?

I'll be doing a full comparison of the 12v pumps I have at my disposal as soon as my latest baby arrives.

Hows that coming along? :burn:

Achilles17

10-26-04, 04:49 PM

I think he has a thread on it over at procooling.com. Seemed like that March pump was decent, but not quite up to par with the D4, abeit a tad quieter. I dunno for sure though, ask him.

Cathar

10-26-04, 05:54 PM

Hows that coming along? :burn:

It isn't at present. Absolutely swamped with my real job, house renovations, teething babies, and waterblocks where I can squeeze them into my (*laugh*) "spare time" (*cough*).

legendosiris

10-26-04, 07:39 PM

i have the newer MCP650, well same as the d4. It has a noticeable whine to it. i can hear it when i'm on my bed about 8 ft away from my pc.

Honestly i think if you were used to dead silence, the whine might get a lil annoying. Still i prefer it over the noise air cooling. once i get going doing something i never notice it.

skane

10-27-04, 12:39 AM

I picked up a MCP650 a couple weeks ago. Great performance, but its whine sounds like a dremel (though not as loud). I'm used to Eheim 1250's on foam rubber, which are dead silent compared to the MCP650.

I'll probably use the MCP650 in an external box and double-box the pump to quiet it down.

socket7

10-27-04, 02:11 AM

I have a D4, the new muffled one. It does whine, it is audible, but I find I'm able to filter it out much better then an 80mm fan, so it doesn't bother me that much. I did notice while leak testing that the D4 is MUCH louder if there is any amount of air stuck inside the pump. Once the air purges itself from the pump it quiets down. I'll take the noise for the ability to fit it in the hard drive rack of my Super LANboy.

http://studiofluffy.org:8080/Pics/WC/pump.jpg

legendosiris

10-27-04, 06:57 AM

socket, i remember the same to be true of my mcp650. it was sooo loud when i initially set up the system that it actually had me regretting the whole w/c thing. Once i got the system completely bled it quieted alot.

Is there a pump alternative that will run on the pc's 12v and be quieter?

greenman100

10-27-04, 10:24 AM

legendosiris

10-27-04, 11:23 AM

good point greenman. i forgot part of my problem when i initially set my w/c stuff up was space. the 650 is a bit smaller than the mcp600 if i'm not mistakein?!!?

DarkJester

10-27-04, 11:58 AM

the 650 is a bit smaller than the mcp600 if i'm not mistakein?!!?

A little, but not much.

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp600.asp
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcp650.asp

Ancient_1

10-27-04, 12:30 PM

It is a bit longer but smaller in all other dimensions. I have a MCP600 and would not be able to fit the 650/D4 in the same place.

JTanczos

10-31-04, 01:19 AM

Can anyone compare a CSP750x2 to the MCP 600 for sound? Which is quieter?

I STILL havent bought a pump and I have it narrowed down to these 2. I had lost interest for a few weeks.

JT

greenman100

10-31-04, 08:47 AM

Can anyone compare a CSP750x2 to the MCP 600 for sound? Which is quieter?

I STILL havent bought a pump and I have it narrowed down to these 2. I had lost interest for a few weeks.

JT

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10785

I would not advise two CSP750s in series

JTanczos

10-31-04, 02:39 PM

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=10785

I would not advise two CSP750s in series

Guess that settles it completely then. *chuckles*

Thanks!

JT

omaticrail

10-31-04, 09:50 PM

I'm also curious about the noise and pump results. I want QUIET, and preferrably at 12V. The MCP600 is discontinued (at least that's what the linked site says), so I'm not sure why people are still talking about it.

I own a nearly unused Mag3 that, after running in a closed loop test for a day, convinced me to hold off on water cooling until I found a quieter pump. It was about that time when the 12V pumps started making ground, and still I read about noise issues.

Cathar

10-31-04, 10:02 PM

I'm also curious about the noise and pump results. I want QUIET, and preferrably at 12V. The MCP600 is discontinued (at least that's what the linked site says), so I'm not sure why people are still talking about it.

The same basic pump that was the MCP600 is still available under the "AquaXtreme 50Z-DC12" brand name, and can be purchased here:

http://www.cooltechnica.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AQX-50Z-DC12&Category_Code=P

People just refer to it as the MCP600 though, because that's the name that everyone is most familiar with.

Don K

11-01-04, 03:53 AM

In summary, ways to further quiet down a muffled D4:

- Put it on a Rheobus (will hurt performance)

- "incapsulate" it somehow? (how?)

- Make your case "soundproof"

Others?

legendosiris

11-01-04, 07:46 AM

In summary, ways to further quiet down a muffled D4:

- Put it on a Rheobus (will hurt performance)

- "incapsulate" it somehow? (how?)

- Make your case "soundproof"

Others?

Earplugs. :D :D

Genetic

11-02-04, 04:46 PM

hmm...damn, wanted this pump for my w/c setup, maybe itll be quieter if i just have my side panel on, although SHOULD be alot quieter then my current air cooling setup...ugh sounds like an airport on full speed, anything should sound better than this :)

sunrunner20

11-02-04, 06:29 PM

You could run A regular Eheim off of a power inverter. Dunno if anybody has tried this.

bizhar

11-04-04, 10:24 PM

I'm a real fan of Swiftech stuff, and a real fan of quiet. The MCP600 came out and I replaced my MCP300, didn't have any problems with my MCP300 as some did, but wanted a quieter pump. The I cannot hear my MCP600 unless my head is about 6" from it. Then The MCP650 comes out. I almost bought one to run a dual loop system, glad I didn't. Whats up Swiftech? Whats up with all the noise. Most water cooling people want quiet? I really can't figure it out. Must be a cost/reliability issue? My MCP600 is running strong though, since Jan. '04. I don't care for the idea of buying a MCP650 just to hook it to a controller and loose performance to reduce the noise. Guess I'll wait until the next, MCP700 maybe??