2 loops... 1 res... comments?

[Joe Camel]

2 loops: 2 pumps; 1 "hot" loop, one "cold" both using the same res....

anyone tried this B4?

anyone who understands the rules of fluid dynamics have any ideas/thoughts? (J/K:D )

my thoughts: the different restrictions of the 2 loops (ass-u-me the same pump) will make this 2x as complicated!

is this worth kicking around?

im THINKING of using some/all of this: parts in my sig [NOT the TEC!(yet) or slitedge] + Caprice core, chevette core, Dtech WW, 2nd Mag3 (maybe Eh. 1250), DIY res (1 gal.)

[Holsum]

I would say for the best assumption, try it out and let us know how it goes!

[Korndog]

sounds alright to me.. u might get some crazy whirlpool action though, lol. might want to figure out a wait to prevent that if u can't get all the air out of the res.

[Joe Camel]

alright, i know what might get this started. ill post what i THINK and y'all can tell me why im wrong (J/K)


let me start by pinning down the parts of the loops.

loop 1: Mag3, 5/8" fittings/tube out, 1" tube "over" pump inlet, Dtech WW (5/8" tube with 2 clamps works over 1/2" barbs) 5/8" tubes "Y"ed to 1 5/8" into res. (pump-WW-Y-res-pump)

loop 2: Mag3, 5/8" fittings/tube out, 1" tube "over" pump inlet, "Y", Bix II , caprice , (rads in parallel) 2x 5/8" tubes back to res. (or "Y"ed back to 1 into res) (pump-Y-2x rads-Y?-res-pump)


ok.. here we go...

assumption #1) 2x rads (wish i had 2 of the SAME) parallel will have less restriction than the WW; thus more of the water will flow thru the cold loop vs. hot.

assumption #2) this will = lower temps.

#3) having better flow thru: rads & WW, will make them more efficient. (keeping in mind the point of diminishing returns)

#4) see #2

#5) having 2x pumps will = more "pump heat" (NO assumption there)

#6) im missing something:(

EDIT: 1" inlet tube over pump inlet: NOT! 3/4" with barbs: YES

[Joe Camel]

great point Korndog!

thats why i want to make a big res. i assume the flow of the water within the res might play a (big?) role in this and i can manipulate it easier in a bigger volume res.

[Sentential]

Ya I can think of something that uses this method........its the human heart.

Sounds like a great idea. I may do the same with mine.

[slater3333uk]

Take a look at my latest project.

here: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=51404

Im planning on using a single custom dual 5.25" bay res. Cant see any problems in it. The 2 loops will share water so will probably run at the same temp but its a much better deal than running it all in one loop.

Attualy the more and more i think about it the better it sounds:)

[Joe Camel]

res thoughts:

8" dia PVC pipe standing 8-10" tall. cold loop inlet near top, outlet near bottom. hot loop inlet near bottom, outlet near top. cold pump on 1 "side" of the res, hot pump on opposite "side".


PS. still hoping "the water god, Cathar" will post some laws of fluid dynamics on this idea.

edit 8-10 (12-15" too big)

[Joe Camel]

parts update-bump-

getting the 2 heater cores. (thanks repilce :D )

*IF!* i have the room... anyone know a good way to tube 3 rads?
(BIX2,caprice,chevette)

i know there are "T"s and "Y"s, r there "W"s? LOL (sorry)

or is 3 rads WAY WAY past the point of diminishing returns?

still havent picked a pump or fans.....(4 Torin blowers & MD Iwaki... 20 or 30 rzt pump:drool: )

the Blowerdude:rolleyes:
PS. this project WILL be built and tested (as best I can)

[Rokk1972]

I have 2 rigs each running a dual loop cooling system. The cpu loop has a L30 - RBX - 120.2 - dual bay res. the gpu/chipset loops has a L30 - z-chip - maze 4 - BIX 2 - dual bay res. the loops share the bay res.

Both rigs have big cases to fit all this in it. (pc-75) I have had these since October 2003, and I have the lowest temps that I have ever got using the dual loop method. But it isn't for everyone. it is very expensive, and takes a big case to pull it off nicely.

[Joe Camel]

the diferance with your setup, Rokk1972 and this one is; you have a WB (or 2) and a rad in each loop. my twist to that is 1 hot & 1 cold loop. with the hope that the lower restriction cold loop will way "over-power"/"over-flow" the hot loop, and give lower temps.

i plan on building a "box" to set next to / under my PC case.

[Korndog]

Originally posted by Joe Camel
res thoughts:

8" dia PVC pipe standing 8-10" tall. cold loop inlet near top, outlet near bottom. hot loop inlet near bottom, outlet near top. cold pump on 1 "side" of the res, hot pump on opposite "side".

(what program do y'all use to draw pics?)

PS. still hoping "the water god, Cathar" will post some laws of fluid dynamics on this idea.

edit 8-10 (12-15" too big)

err.. pvc pipe is a cylinder, whirlpools are more likely to occure in those types of res. i've seen it happen with a 4" one, but i don't know about 8-10", i'm working on a 12"x2" clear acrylic pipe myself, but only use one pump.. just make sure ur inlet to the pump is really really low.

[Joe Camel]

ahhh. i get it.

huh, i was thinking of having the inlet to the cooling loop up high to pull the warmer water off the top, then outlet cold near bottom, where the inlet to the warm loop would be (bottom). maybe ill have to think non-cylinder....

thanks for the input Korndog!

[slater3333uk]

What exactly do you mean by 1 hot & 1 cold loop??

Like 1 loop for block and one for rad?

Edit: attualy forget that i just read your post again, understood it this time:)

[Joe Camel]

yep. (i try to explain that in first few posts.)

loop 1: Mag3, 5/8" fittings/tube out, 1" tube "over" pump inlet, Dtech WW (5/8" tube with 2 clamps works over 1/2" barbs) 5/8" tubes "Y"ed to 1 5/8" into res.

(pump-WW-Y-res-pump)



loop 2: Mag3, 5/8" fittings/tube out, 1" tube "over" pump inlet, "Y", Bix II , caprice , (rads in parallel) 2x 5/8" tubes back to res. (or "Y"ed back to 1 into res)

(pump-Y-2x rads-Y?-res-pump)

[slater3333uk]

I dont think the restriction differace in each loop will matter too much.

Cant see any obvious problems. The only thing that comes to mind is that your putting 2 pumps in the loop and that means 2x the amount of heat dumped by the pump(s) but i would think the increse in flow rate may counteract that.

[Joe Camel]

does this help?

i WANT the restrictions (flow) diferance between the 2 loops to make a differance. 2x the flow thru the rads (probly less) "should" help lower temps...right?

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by Joe Camel
yep. (i try to explain that in first few posts.)

loop 1: Mag3, 5/8" fittings/tube out, 1" tube "over" pump inlet, Dtech WW (5/8" tube with 2 clamps works over 1/2" barbs) 5/8" tubes "Y"ed to 1 5/8" into res.

(pump-WW-Y-res-pump)

have you considered changing the 1/2" OD barbs on the whitewater? should cut a bit of restriction, and also give you safer joins i think....

Originally posted by Joe Camel

loop 2: Mag3, 5/8" fittings/tube out, 1" tube "over" pump inlet, "Y", Bix II , caprice , (rads in parallel) 2x 5/8" tubes back to res. (or "Y"ed back to 1 into res)

(pump-Y-2x rads-Y?-res-pump)

better without the second "Y" i think ie 2 lines to the res...
think a mag3 is counterproductive in this loop - 2 rads in parallel + 5/8" tubing isn't much restriction, so you're adding more heat (with a mag3) than you need to.. 1250 would be better i think...

[Joe Camel]

IF i could find 5/8" barbs that would fit the threads taped into the poly-top...sure. but i havent found any:(

pump stats:
Mag3:........35watts.......350GpH......10'6" head
Eh.1250:....28watts.......317GpH........6'7" head
.................(-7).............(-33).......(-3'11")

KornD'smaxi.....9.............240GpH.......3'10" head


think 7 watts is worth the -33Gph & -3'11"head?


are there any HIGH flow (lower head) low watt pumps?

pump pages:
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_pumps_eheim_universal_hobby_powerheads.as p?CartId=
http://www.pondandfountain.com/pumps_danner.html
http://www.reefsplendor.com/pages/pumps/maxijet.html
edit: heck, think.. +10watts ... +150GpH (Mag3 vs 5) is a good trade-off? with a low restriction loop i might see more of that +150Gph than we do in a standard loop...

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by Joe Camel
IF i could find 5/8" barbs that would fit the threads taped into the poly-top...sure. but i havent found any:(

pump stats: ....... Mag3: - 35watts - 350GpH - 10'6"head
......................Eh.1250: - 28watts - 317GpH - 6'7"head
........................................-7 ...... -33 ...... -3'11"

think 7 watts is worth the -33Gph & -3'11"head?


yes - rads aren't really boosted much by extra waterflow - a 1048 would probably be optimum - or an mcp600 (i only said 1250 as you'd mentioned it in your op...)
Originally posted by Joe Camel

are there any HIGH flow (lower head) low watt pumps?

pump pages:
http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_pumps_eheim_universal_hobby_powerheads.as p?CartId=
http://www.pondandfountain.com/pumps_danner.html

edit: heck, think.. +10watts ... +150GpH (Mag3 vs 5) is a good trade-off? with a low restriction loop i might see more of that +150Gph than we do in a standard loop...

not enough to be worth it... iirc you'd get more flow from a mag3 than a mag5 even with just the rads.

[Korndog]

i have a maxijet 900, it does 900 l/hr (240gph??) @ 46" head and its 9watts. do u mean something like that?

[Joe Camel]

humm...maybe Korndog....

anyone agree with the "extra flow thru rads wont help much"?

i dont know if i want to give up that much GpH thru the rads. that sorta goes againt the theory this setup is based on.

ok lets make a BIG assumption and say the water in the Full loop (both hot and cold) COULD go thru the cold side 2x for every time it went thru the hot side once. wouldnt that give better temps vs. a 1 to 1 ratio?

i think i need to prove / disprove that theory b4 i go too much further....anyone?

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by Joe Camel
humm...maybe Korndog....

anyone agree with the "extra flow thru rads wont help much"?

i dont know if i want to give up that much GpH thru the rads. that sorta goes againt the theory this setup is based on.

ok lets make a BIG assumption and say the water in the Full loop (both hot and cold) COULD go thru the cold side 2x for every time it went thru the hot side once. wouldnt that give better temps vs. a 1 to 1 ratio?

i think i need to prove / disprove that theory b4 i go too much further....anyone?

basically doubling the flow in the rads gains less than doubling it through the block(s)

the thing is that the whitewater is a lot more restrictive than the rad(s) - which you've then made even less restrictive by putting them in parallel.... i guess we need to try to put numbers to it really.....

i may try tomorrow....

[Joe Camel]

TY! TY!

sad to say, but im wing'n it here when it comes to the rules of fluid dynamics. and my math skillz went "by-by" years ago. i would LOVE someone who knows to help me out.

:beer: pauldenton :beer: (come on Cathar... i know you want to... SMACK some truth on us! plz):beer:

[Joe Camel]

here is something i came across that might help:

http://www.thermal-management-testing.com/corrected%20heat%20dissipation.htm


full:

http://thermal-management-testing.com/radiator%20testing%201.htm


thats probly "lost" in a sticky somewhere here.


so that proves the rads arnt going to be any more efficient with 2x flow but... you still have 2x the flow. shouldnt that allow 2x the BTU transfer? :rolleyes:


as to the efficiency of the WB, i cant improve it any more than: "over-sized" tubes & fittings and only having it (WB) in a loop. bigger pump (MORE watts) is probly passed the point of diminishing returns.

the only way the "hot loop" is going to get any more efficient is if i find a Cascade (SS or SSS plz) on my doorstep:rolleyes:


so the "cold loop" is where i was focusing. since we just learned (again for some) flow rate thru the rad isnt any help, that leaves flow volume. (hence the high GpH pump thought)

someone push me if im wandering off the path of fluid dynamics.

[Joe Camel]

after reading this article like 5 times i THINK i get it.


and the answer is NO, my theory dosn't "hold water".
having 2x the flow (volume and flow are really about the same) seems to do nothing or very little (+ -) to the total BTU transfer. i guess that when the water is flowing 2x only 1/2 the BTU transfer occurs during each pass thru the rad ...right?
BUT, with 2 rads parallel, only 1/2 the flow goes thru each rad...:rolleyes:

i guess the only real advantage to this 2 loop setup would be the added flow thru the WB. (less restriction in the loop without the rad) with the disadvantage of having 2 pumps' heat added.


arg! without the math to back me up, i can "see" this working AND not working.

someone please help put this to rest.


PS. now what am i going to do with the 2 rads and 4 fans that i just got....;) o-ya, build and test this like i said. tho i would rather know that its destined to fail b4 i get my hopes up.

[TheGhengisKhan]

actually, looking at your 1337 paint skillz... wouldn't it be better for temps if you seperated the res into 2 sections? Basicly turning it into 2 resivours? Wouldn't it keep any of the warmer water comming back from the block from going directly back to the block, and stop the whole whirlpool action?

Just a couple thoughts... time for bed now... Yes nurse, I'm comming.

[Joe Camel]

so make 1 loop with no rad and no way to get rid of the heat, and another loop with no WB so no heat in?....i understand the idea, but the 2 loops NEED to mix. one way or the other i will try to get the "hot" loop drawing from the coldest water.

ive been trying to come up with a way to test differant setups without tearing down my sig-rig. what if i made a CPU die sized piece of copper with a hole drilled in from the back and a soldering iron put in that hole? then let it run for a while till temps stop changing, record that. change setup and repeat... darn, id need the WW from my loop....(looks outside to see if the Cascade came...nope. maybe tomorrow) and the mag 3, :(
looks like ill get a lot of practice mounting my WW.

[slater3333uk]

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=8220&highlight=dual+pumps

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=8000&highlight=dual+pump

Stumbled aross these earlyer looked like the kind of thing your proposing.

[Joe Camel]

WOW they sure shot him down FAST!

but i still think it might work with a good res that alows the cold loop to draw cold water. after all the flame he took, im sure he never built/tested it.

guess ill sink or swim on my own!

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by Joe Camel
WOW they sure shot him down FAST!

but i still think it might work with a good res that alows the cold loop to draw cold water. after all the flame he took, im sure he never built/tested it.

guess ill float or swim on my own!

as the articles you linked to point out, you only need 1.5gph or so to get the best from the rad(s) - in a loop with no blocks just rads this could be obtained with a very weak pump - eheim 1046 maybe? - so as to add the minimum heat. in effect that watt or two "buys" you the added flow through your whitewater you gain by not having the rad(s) in the loop... and does so with much fewer watts than you'd need in the form of a stronger pump to do the same...

[Joe Camel]

well, as Eric Cartman would say "ska-roo you guys, i'm going houme" (and build this thing) ive already started. (no, im not really hacked off at y'all here:D )

i found a pump...ull love it (overkill!) but for the price...its a little giant (LOL) 500GpH 9.7' head 45 watts. (Mag4 with -10" head) BUT, i got it at a local surplus store for $32 new:p .

i also picked up my res parts there: 6" Dia white PVC pipe and end caps. tube is 9" long. since the endcaps are flat, ive tapped my ins/outs into them. (PVC tapps EASY Korndog)
ive solved the problem of how to get the coldest water to the inlet of the hot loop :p since the barb threads go thru the PVC +3/8", i added a 5/8" pvc pipe 7" long extending the barb. (yes ill try to draw a picture) that way the water from the rads will be "shooting" 2" from the inlet to the hot loop. i say "shooting" since the flow from the rads (could be?) 2x the hot loop. and the extra flow will go back into the rads to to be cooled again.

i plan on tapping in a "T-line" on the "top" of the res. that way the "upper" inlet of the Hot loop wont get air.

now ill tuck my :p back in my mouth, (since this theory isnt going to work?) and go to bed.

[Joe Camel]

just a quick update:


its ALIVE! well, the cold side of the water loop is...

3/4" and 5/8" tube is a PAIN to work with! and this is just hardware store stuff...

ill skip to the chase:

the pipe extension inside the res works. in fact it will be like "ram-air" for the hot loop. ive shot 2 pics of the leak test. 1 with the pump ON, 1 OFF. NOTE the water levels in the two tubes, the 3/4" tube will be the inlet of the hot loop. as you can see, there is preasure on the inlet tube.


PUMP OFF:

[Joe Camel]

PUMP ON:


edit: this is shot standing on the "pot" and im 6'3", so im looking DOWN on it.

[Joe Camel]

here is one sitting on the "pot". the water level in the tube is just above the flash...

edit: also note the "T-line" has moved to the center of the cap. since the barb stuck out too far (inside), i filled the area up to the level of the barb with hot glue. tho i need to tip the res 90 degrees, i can get ALL the air out of the res. once i add the hot loop, things are going to get tricky...

[Joe Camel]

after trying to explain this theory of mine to a few people at work, ive come up with this:


lets make the 4 following assumpions:

1) my cold loop will have 2x the flow of my hot loop.

2) a (big) pump adds +1C (50W) to the water.

3) a WB adds +2C (100W) to the water.

4) when 2 equal amounts of water @ different temps are mixed together, the resulting temps is the average between the two.
ie 1 cup 20C + 1 cup 40C = 2 cups @ 30C.



lets follow 10 (cm3) of water thru my setup:

start at the water coming out of the rads, lets say its [30C]...5(cm3) goes to a pump [31C] then to WB [33C] then back to res where it mixes with the other 5 (cm3) which is still 30C [30+33=63 /2= 31.5C] then it goes to the second pump [32.5C] then into the rads.
so the rads have 32.5C water going into them.



now lets follow 10 (cm3) thru a normal loop:

same starting point, out of rad [30C] pump [31C], WB [33C] ....rads.
so the rads have 33C water going into them....

if the 4 assumptions are true, how is the theory false? ( i know the +1C / 50W is NOT true, but it makes the math a lot easier)

[repilce]

nice heater cores you got there ;)

[Joe Camel]

well, i built a box for the loop(s). its not done yet but you'll get the idea:

http://www.nidec.com/fanpdfs/c2003_4041.pdf (HERE are stats of the fans (B34262) running @ 12V




.

[Joe Camel]

the rads are just sitting infront of the hole, if i seal the gaps around them....:D

[Joe Camel]

ok, just one more. i THINK it should be strong enough to put the computer on top of...(now you can put a face on the name Joe Camel)

[Joe Camel]

well, it works...

now as for the question of: does it work BETTER than a normal 1 loop?...not sure (yet).

i cant compare the temps i was getting with my old setup to this one. that would be like saying: a turbo will make this car (Geo) go faster. then put a turbo in a car (5.0 V8) and conclude that the turbo works...

what i want to do is: find my max OC (with this new tictac bios) then redo the loop with 1 pump, 2rads, WW, no res, same box, and then compare temps...

needless to say, im in no MAJOR hurry to drain, re-tube, and fill this monster ive created...but i will (week or 3 ;) )


things ive noticed so far:

i can run a higher OC with this setup. BUT ive changed to a new bios and changed cooling...as youll see from the pic, i have CAI (Cold Air Induction) so my temps are VERY dependent on the outside temps.
the last OC (24hour P95 stable) i had with my old loop is in my sig. (@2497 (11.5 x 217) 2.0V ) i was running in the low 40C's with 0.0C to 10C outside temps. (the BIG tube ran to the back of the BIX2)
as of NOW im prime testing 11x228 @ 1.975V with CPU temp: of...39C room temp: 69F (20.5C)
ASSUMPTION: this sutup works better than my old one. i say this since im getting about the same temps with 20C air running thru the rads vs. old setup with 10C air.

PS with the 3M filtrete (TM) air filter in front, ive got an air purifier out of this too:cool:
PPS yes that is my F@H Borg Farm:attn:

EDIT 228x11 @1.975V prime95 stable 27 hours+
2nd EDIT: 228x11 @1.9V prime95 stable 16 hours+, CPU 37C, Room 21C :D

[Joe Camel]

whelp, its time for an update:

ive changed my 2 loop into a 1 loop.
here is a pic of the 2 loop box:

OLD:

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/2593/2loopOLD3.jpg

NEW:

http://www.imageshack.us/img1/4138/2loopNEW1.jpg

so i took out the Lil giant and the res. so i have:
1x Mag3,
2x rads (parallel),
WW,
T,
back to pump.

guess what...

1) i cant keep the same OC (had to lower to 220x11 to be stable)
2) @ this lower OC, my temps are 7C HIGHER
ive remounted the WB 3 times and have the same results.

needless to say, i will be going back to a 2loop.

edit: next update in a few weeks; 2loops with: cascade, 4x torin blowers, 2x Wa2's rads, D4 pump @ 16V (or 2)!!

[pauldenton]

7C sounds an awfully big jump - good old nf7 temp issues i guess..... the o/clock is the best measure...

how do you get the pipes to/from the WW in/out of the case while keeping it airtight btw?

[Joe Camel]

good old duct tape.

i have a 2"x2" hole cut in the top plate. once the 2 tubes are thru it, there is little space to close up.
i guess you could find/mod a rubber gasket of some sort, but since im going to be redoing this 2-3 more times im just going to "duck-it".

im assuming the 7C will get smaller (1-3C) as the TIM (ceramique) sets in.

[Joe Camel]

the evolution continues....

GONE are the (3) 120mm Nidec's (LOUD)
IN are the (4) Torin blowers. (@24V)

GONE is the Little Giant (Mag4ish)
IN is the Laing D4. (@12V...16V PSU didnt come yet.)

GONE are the 2 diff rads.
IN are the 2 (WA2's) rads.

temps have only gone down 1C...:( but the TIM is only 20 min old.

all in all im less than impressed, i was hoping for better performance. But on the noise side...i can hear my SmartFan2 on my "air rig" again so for that alone, i am VERY HAPPY!!

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/4796/blown.jpg

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/8536/blownclose.jpg

EDIT: i may look like the blowers are taped in, but there are 4 screws per blower under the tape :p (yes, thats ALL 5/8" tube and barbs)

[BeerHunter]

Greatful dead rocked. Just got DEAD SET last week. Oh and BTW sweet setup:)

[BeerHunter]

OK I mounted the torin blowers like so to minimize vibration.

1. Go get some GE "silcon II", not the cheap stuff.
2. Turn box "upwards"
3. Place a signifigant bead, about 1/2" in dia, around the precut retangular hole in box which will accomidate blower.
4. Allow to set for 20 miniutes
5. apply a very thin bead on the blowers flange
6. Gently set blower over hole and allow to vulcanise (about 12 hours).

Once it drys, this "rubber" buffer will not only minimise vibration thus kill noise, it will be very stong bond which will only come off with putty knife and serious force. As an added bonus it will be a perfect seal so you can loose the duck tape.:D

EDIT: as far as pump noise, since you have an external box, you can make that pump totally silent with enough barrier loading. Get some 1/2" iron bar and weld a small square box to house it.

[ToolBox]

In theory this is a great idea and if it works out fully (lower temps) you might have a hit :)

The only downside I can see of this is the size. Its bigger than the average watercooling setup.

Why not make the cold loop a peltier chiller core? That way it saves on space and can get the same performance. But then again, why not just use one loop with a chiller core...

[Joe Camel]

i had a 220W TEC B4 this. too expencive (electric bill +$30) i only got +100 to +150MHz more OC so it wasnt worth it. it was running @ 11C Load

ya, size wasnt something i was worried about when making this ;)

[magick_man]

aaahhh, holy thread revival batman

just one question, where did you get those torin blowers.
i want some but i cant find any

~Magick_Man~

[Joe Camel]

aaahhh, holy thread revival batman

:eek: :eek: :eek:

sorry to say, i got them when surplus still had them in stock...well, 1 of them...Beerhunter sold me 4...its been sooo long, hard to remember

GOOD LUCK!!

PS guess i need to update with some new pics now that this has been "bumped"

[Jungle]

i would say that any mixing of the hot and cold water would make temps worse. what ghengiskhan proposed was a traditional series rig except you randomly put 2 res in the middle of it. you would have 2 pumps in series that way. so i don't think that would be much like the original idea of something new. i do think, however that it would be better. regardless of the flowrate through the rads, your cool water can be no colder than ambient. assuming that a rad can effectively dissipate enough heat from the water to bring it close to ambient with one loop through it, i see no way that 2 loops through it will help. mixing the hot and cold water will invairably bring both temps closer together... end result = higher temp water going to your wb = less heat transfered. makes sense to me.

jungle

[Joe Camel]

ok...

regardless of the flowrate through the rads, your cool water can be no colder than ambient. assuming that a rad can effectively dissipate enough heat from the water to bring it close to ambient with one loop through it, i see no way that 2 loops through it will help.

I see no way 2 loops through it will HURT


mixing the hot and cold water will invairably bring both temps closer together... end result = higher temp water going to your wb = less heat transfered.

go back to the first statement, if my water is as close to ambient as it is going to be...whats the problem?

the water going into the WB loop is at its coldest point (in this setup) it has just come out of the rads (which, BTW, are now 2x single pass (Fedco 2-342 (http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=3019761&postcount=1) ) in SERIES with a RIO 2100 (http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/marinedepot/RioSpecs.html) pump) now picture this...you have a straw in your mouth, there is a garden hose 1" away from the end of the straw, the hose is wide open so water is "shooting" out...i dont care how hard you suck, you are not going to draw in anything but the water from the hose...this is how the res is setup


mixing the hot and cold water will invairably bring both temps closer together

this only happens with water that came out of the WB and the extra flow from the rads...agreed this will lower the effectivness of the rads (lower delta T= less efficent rads) but higher flow = more effective rads...right? and then add in the higher flow (more effective) i get through my WB...trade off, better, worse...i dont have the equipment/education to answer that.


EDIT: SORRY, the thread title is "comments...?" so i was asking for comments on the idea and all you did was post yours...so...Thanks for the comment!

[Jungle]

i had forgotten about that extension in the res. in that case, i think it's a good idea b/c you're right, minimal mixing of water.

jungle

[Joe Camel]

pics:

yes, there is a Storm under there somewhere


http://img102.exs.cx/img102/315/2loop64amd9pf.jpg



http://img102.exs.cx/img102/4498/2loopside64amd3de.jpg


if your wondering WTF is up with that pump....HERE (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=295201&highlight=cooling) is the thread to answer your question...;)

[Time4aMassiveOC]

so is it a chiller or just watercooling with 2 radiators that draw from where you hope the hot current is in the res?

i think the hot line would suck cold and have a negative effect on the effec tiveness of the radiator to remove heat over time.

since the object of getting better cooling is to have the hottest water in the radiator first i would want to loop my hot water so it all has to go through both radiators to get to my res. this would remove the most heat.


now my question is.. is it better to have seperate cold lines to each water block and hot lines running to a or is it better to have them strung all to eachother in one line from coolest running to hottest running and having the hot line dump into the radiator.

would having all cold lines to each help transfer the heat faster or would the hottest water to the radiator work best

[Joe Camel]

mmmmm the ol' 2loop thread

its not a chiller just a 3x pump 2x rad 1x WB contraption :)

sadly, without more accurate and many measuring points/equipment, i cant tell you how/what separate lines would/could do.



on the "hottest water to the rads" part though... i have a hard time wrapping my brain around a statement as such:

if i run 35C water through a rad it will come out cooler than if i run 30C water through the exact same rad.

which (in my mind) is what everybody seems to keep telling me.


sure the change in temps may be better (35 in 30 out VS 30 in 29 out) but in the end, 29 is cooler than 30.

[-aDaM^]

now that I see those pics, i realize your one hell of a overclocker :sn:

[Joe Camel]

well, if nothing else, this thread proves im CRAZY!! :D

as for a good OCer...lets just say im still learning (every day) :)

[greenmaji]

ok, just one more. i THINK it should be strong enough to put the computer on top of...
http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=28202&stc=1&d=1079285090
(now you can put a face on the name Joe Camel)
ZOMG!!!! It's JOE!!! :eek:

Found this thread with a search, and what did I find :eek:

btw.. what kind of head preasure/watt do you get out of them powerheads..

like the maxijet 1200's :p
9 or so watts a piece you could run several of them in series=not bad?

[Joe Camel]

once i found the Laing D4's i never really looked back, i did play around with a Rio2100 but that was more about flow to watt ratio ... anyway, i didnt /dont have the tools to "see" the difference in temps / flow ; so it was more a case of does it OC better or not.

now that im on phase-change, ya, it OC a lot more ;)

just wait till i learn to make my own phase-change units :eek:

[QuietIce]

Great job, Joe!

I ended up with a pair of rads and found this thread w/search trying to decide if running the rads in parallel was off the deep end. You've answered that question and apparently proved that we're both crazy. :)

Your res is great and definitely food for thought as I've yet to come up with a res I like. It's guys like you that make forums like this work so well ...!