Who is the folding ethics guru?

[Malpine Walis]

I was handed permission to install stuff at work recently but I feel that I am in a gray area for f@h. I did discuss f@h and I have been told to do what I feel to be appropriate. Before I go for the gold, I want to get some insight on the question of whether I really have permission or not...

[Kendan]

Great question. I am sure you will get a lot of good answers and probably more questions to ask. Good luck with getting it up and running:D

[Wedo]

Hmmm....

So you've been granted the rights, responsibility, and hopefully the pay increase to admin software in addition to your regular duties? If the matter of FAH has been discussed with the appropriate authority, I say go for it (there's a surpise).

However, if you have some power users who render graphics or some other cpu intensive operation regularly, I wouldn't install FAH on their rigs. Furthermore, if you have someone who "thinks" they are a power user I would leave their machine alone as well. No sense in having waves created by some dork who learned how to check his cpu load from TechTV and pitches a fit because "Dr. PC" said his computer should be running at less than 4%.

Of course, you can always change the Group Policy and remove their right to hit Ctrl+Alt+Del to see task manager, remove the "Run" command, and prevent their access to the Windows (or WINNT) directory if you're on an NT, W2K, W2K3, or SBS2K3 network. I consider such admin actions to fall under "I'm protecting you from yourself." :D

In my eyes, this is the bottom line; You have the skillset and knowledge that granted you this responsibility and like the rest of us, you know that FAH is a secure, stable, and well proven program capable of a greater good to humanity. Install it.

Wedo

[flixotide]

Good advice there from Wedo.

Keep FAH away from Power Users and from the graphics intensive guys. Both of these groups are usually pretty sensitive, and tend to cause a stir over nothing at all.

If people are curios, just explain them what the project is all about, then they usually give it thumbs up :)

Flix

[UberBlue]

So you were given permission to install "software", but not specifically F@H?

[Toysrme]

Actually what is now policy across the board here is that end users have NEVER had cmd access. However we do have a "Virtual CMD" any user with any right can access, however ONLY command sets ACTUALLY programmed in to the virtual cmd can be run. So there is 100% no chance of any "thinks-he's-good" person can get CMD & do anything worth wild.

Rule #1, The most dangerous part of the network is the administrator.

FYI the "do what I feel to be appropriate" is a grey answer because that's a grey statement. If it doesn't cause a stir, or it comes up & people say OK no problem. Your boss gave you the go a head. If it backfires that the kind of answer that your boss says, "I don't know what it is, I just told him to fix the *a** comp!".

I say be the same as me, sit with your 800 CPU's every day, but don't borg them until you get the go ahead from someone AT LEAST high enough in your company to defend you, or at least have to defend himself enough that you get a good defense & you can help each other.
(not to be crude, places are like this, it's like war, tactical & strategic thinking!)

IMHO I think you should cover your own hind with another answer so you can argue out of any trouble that comes your way.

[Blueacid]

Provided the admin is confident that F@H is fine, then installing on the more stupid computer users that are likely to kick up a stink when they find this mysterious program might be more okay, since the admin would explain to them what it was and why it was there... but if the admin was "uuuuh, okay why not" with F@H, then he's probably not going to be so keen to put his neck out for you.

[Fast420A]

build, BORG, recruit!

:D

[dropadrop]

Go slowly and make sure it does'nt cause havoc. I've had permission to install on the network here, but made sure I ask everyone before doing it. (they are my workfriends...) Quite alot of them don't want any excess junk on their computers, and I respect their opinion. I've still gotten a few computers borged, and hopefully will get some more yet.

Now if I did'nt work with these people on a daily basis, I'd just tell them I need the computer for a moment and borg...

[Robbie]

Well, go ahead and install it on those systems but I HIGHLY RECOMMED that you do NOT run the core's at 100%. I doubt that the systems are built to handle the extra heat.

Maybe run them at 50%
Rob

[Fast420A]

Oh No! Don't install it!

[PhreakinSyco]

LOL.. that is great. I have to keep that somewhere. It is the view that allot of people have on folding for some reason.

<cough>idiots<cough>

FreakinSyco

[Toysrme]

Sin, Vice, Instability, what's wrong with those? Now F@H, that'll doom your soul!

=)

[SewerBeing]

I would just install it, and remove it from the pc's if the user complains. Just make sure you can cover your own a**.

[Quailane]

Re-name it something innocuos though, incase someone looks at the programs they have and start asking questions.

[don256us]

Dude. What exactly IS the problem? I'm not seeing it. Use your best judgement when installing and remove it from machines when asked. I'm sure that you'll do fine.

[PhreakinSyco]

I second that don256us!

COMMON SENSE!!!!!

It's scary the lack of common sense in people today sometimes. But since you are a folder I'm going to put my money that whatever you do will be the correct thing.

If you get asked to remove it.. I'm sure as long as you explain that you had only good intentions and meant no harm then everything will be OK!

FreakinSyco

[9mmCensor]

Give 'er a go, in a pilot project. See if people mind or noticed the difference.

The send an email around asking people if they do not want a peice of software, that from your testing doesn't effect preformance, installed on their machine, which has the potential to ... blah blah wog... if anyone responds to the negitive dont instal it on their machine, and check them of your "good people list".

This way you:
A) Prove that F@H is A-OK
B) Inform people of it and what it does (mabey they will fold @ home)
C) Doesn't put F@H on losers that dont want it on their system, and EVERYbody is HAPPY.

9mmCensor

[MLMIB]

heres what I did, just borged a township, leave servers alone, borg endusers

end user machines crash, fact of life, servers are a no-no to have crash, so I havn't borged it(yet....)

my ghetto server at work has been folding though for 2 weeks straight, so I might borg the main servers...

[Kendan]

Just get permission first!

[Malpine Walis]

Ok let me give you guys a bit more detail.

I was the computer guy until about a year ago. I had already networked three computers to prove to them that it was easily possible. So I should be well on my way to getting stuff going. They had recently given me $15,000 to update our hardware part of which was to get a server (small company=plenty of cash).

Then they asked me to order two DSL lines to connect two computers (clueless administration types). They were totally unaware that I had been buying every computer with a 10/100 NIC for a couple of years. So I had a company platinum card and I was just about to buy a router, switch and a two 500 foot spools.

What I did not know was that they were in talks with some comp/sci guy from the University of Boston who was going to make us a custom database (which never happened BTW). That guy pumped them full of nonsense about network security and BAM! I was no longer qualified to do what I had been doing for several years.

They called in an electrician to pull wires (yes an electrician – some computers now have access to the shared DSL service but the connection is about as fast as a 14.4 modem). They also got some bogus outfit to set up the networking (who cannot figure out how to configure the DHCP server in the router but that is another story).

[/history lesson]

OK, I am on light duty at work due to a knee injury and that means that I get to spend my time defragging, virus checking and the like. Part of the job description is setting up spybot and ad-aware. Here is where F@H comes in.

Yesterday just before the end of the day, the management wannbe nerd come to me and say that he want a pop-up blocker and that he had called the networking company for advice. They told him to set up the google toolbar.

My reply was that I had intended to ask him if I should set up a pop-up blocker but I had reservations about the google product as I knew that it installed F@H by default and that I had something else in mind (I love social engineering BTW). Then I expressed concern that it would set up F@H automatically and that I was concerned that it might not be a good thing for a business environment (did I mention that I love social engineering?)

He told me that the networking company had “reservations” about other blockers and that I should go ahead and set up the google product and not worry about F@H.

So when I started this thread last night, I was a bit giddy that I had just maneuvered my boss into ordering me to put approximately 20ghz online. Then this morning I got the google tool bar installer onto the CD that I have burned to carry around the office. I had no idea that it no longer folds.

So I am back into my gray area. If I use the one click installer, I am Borging my work place. Yes it was discussed but not the one click installer.

After reading this thread, I guess that I can ask the individual users and the go for it. Since I am a mental health worker, I don't see a problem selling the idea that I am doing a good thing by setting it up. Wish me luck guys.

[diggingforgold]

I don't think you really have permission, but from what it sounds like- I think they don't care regardless. He said not to worry about f@h. It's up to you to decide whether or not that is ethically translated to a "yes" or "no". But I still think the management doesn't care ("yes"). So then the only people that might be concerned will be the end users themselves.

Next time you are going to do some work on someone's computer, ask them if they have heard about f@h and what it does, how it is installed and invisibly works in the background, and how it is nearly impossible to tell that it's working. Then ask them if they would like to contribute to the project. Then borg away (one at a time).

Good luck with whatever method you come up with!

[Kendan]

I would say that you don't have permision. Just for the fact that it is your a&& on the line if they ever have a problem with it. The google toolbar works great as a popup blocker by the way :D

[Malpine Walis]

Yah, the question is ethical rather than moral. My work order did not include removing user installed games, AOL, CompuServe and porn but I decided on my own that I can do that with no worries. The management “nerd wannabe” has already taken that stuff off plenty of times on his own.

Also, the google tool-bar only blocks pop-ups if IE is patched to version 5.5 or higher. So the burned CD that I am carrying around has the IE up-grader along with the google product (along with some other stuff that I can use to find god-knows-what).

I am also thinking that I can move this along by setting up a time synchronizer proggie and then telling every one that all computers are the official arbiter of what the correct time is. That should give me credibility points.

[PhreakinSyco]

So the big question is how shady a man are ya?

Do you go ahead and borg them and when someone blows the whistle you point at google toolbar. But what do you do if someone knows google toolbar no longer folds? "Oops I guess I installed the older folding version of the toolbar!"

Or go ahead and borg the computers that the users are OK with? Then maybe use your good name and good intentions as your base if someone calls you on it?

Or do you just not install it on anyones computer buy your own darn computers and FOLD!

(I like the second and third options combined)

FreakinSyco

[Toysrme]

Remember the guy that left a company & then got sued for a cool 1/4 mill for running F@H or seti or RC. (I forget) anyone saying no does.




I SERIOUSLY WOULD NOT touch this unless you can either:
1) get a copy of the old google toolbar
2) get in WRITTEN CONSENT from the head IT person AND a REAL manager that it is OK.


Otherwise you're looking at a lawsuit. The simple fact is that anyone on this forum that owned a biz would sue you over -2% performance and $5 electricty/utility cost per CPU month.

Leave morals and ethics out of your discussion. It's all legal, which means owner/high manager + paper + signature + Carbon Copy

[JetMech]

You have permission to install the Googlr toolbar. He thinks from the info you gave him that the toolbar automatically folds and he doesn't care. The toolbar doesn't fold anymore but he doesn't know that. Why would he be upset to see his comps folding when he already said he doesn't care?

[don256us]

I see the problem now. I was not aware that google did folding in the past.

From the story above, you did not ask to put on F@H. Instead you said that it was installed by another product. Since that did not pan out, you are back to square one.

It sounds like you could get pernission if you were able to present it properly. There are several threads around for doing this.

My thought, use the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle. Managers like black and white and yours sound like they are no exception.

Pick one or two reasons and pitch those. If you have too many reasons, they tend to get picked apart.

Good luck. I hope that it works out.

[@md0Cer]

Originally posted by Wedo
Hmmm....

So you've been granted the rights, responsibility, and hopefully the pay increase to admin software in addition to your regular duties? If the matter of FAH has been discussed with the appropriate authority, I say go for it (there's a surpise).

However, if you have some power users who render graphics or some other cpu intensive operation regularly, I wouldn't install FAH on their rigs. Furthermore, if you have someone who "thinks" they are a power user I would leave their machine alone as well. No sense in having waves created by some dork who learned how to check his cpu load from TechTV and pitches a fit because "Dr. PC" said his computer should be running at less than 4%.

Of course, you can always change the Group Policy and remove their right to hit Ctrl+Alt+Del to see task manager, remove the "Run" command, and prevent their access to the Windows (or WINNT) directory if you're on an NT, W2K, W2K3, or SBS2K3 network. I consider such admin actions to fall under "I'm protecting you from yourself."

In my eyes, this is the bottom line; You have the skillset and knowledge that granted you this responsibility and like the rest of us, you know that FAH is a secure, stable, and well proven program capable of a greater good to humanity. Install it.

Wedo

:D :D:) ;) :clap: :clap:

[Fast420A]

The toolbar didn't automatically install, you had to enable google compute. Even then, to get it to fold for team 32 you have to do the google toolbar hack. Just google the google toolbar hack to see how to do it. It's a simple registry change.

[PhreakinSyco]

Man we are sad. I can't believe that this forum is recomeding he hack the old google toolbar just so we can get a few more points.

(GO FOR IT!)

FreakinSyco

[SewerBeing]

considering your companies history, I would not install it unless you can get written permission from a real manager. A nerd wannabe manager's permission is not good enough. I would suggest talking to a real manager. I just had to make a similar decision, with my school (I could have borged 34ghz) but decided to talk to my teacher first, who ok'ed it and is now talking to a higher authority about it. So just talk to a real manager, you would be supprised what comes out of it.

[Malpine Walis]

Well, I work for a small enough company that there are two people who call the shots and the guy I talked to in one of them. However, the fact that I expressed “misgivings” about F@H tells me that I have to bide my time on this one. The good thing is that this is not the first time this has come up (if I had not blown the chance last time I would not have started this thread). I think that I will get another chance in a year or so and perhaps next time I will get it right.

On the lighter side, he showed me the symantec controls on the server today. At 1:30 we had received over 300 of those damn email viruses that those two guys are trading just today.

[Audioaficionado]

I wouldn't install F@H unless he understands it's a stand alone service/app separate from the google tool bar and will use excess CPU cycles.

At 100% CPU usage, it will also heat and stress the machines. That needs to be carefully monitored so you won't cause hardware failure issues.

Bide your time, use your superior mind and the prize will eventually be yours.