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Question: Reliability-> NTFS vs. FAT32

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Toasty_Squirrel

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2002
I know the MS seems to be pushing the NTFS file system, but after reading a little tidbit from the folks behind Evidence Eliminator and they mentioned something about how FAT32 is just as "good/stable" as NTFS. Now, permissions aside, and let's forget that you can't access NTFS from a oldstyle boot disk....

Is there really any stability/reliability advantage of NTFS over FAT32.

* Currently I've got 2 systems (XP and 2K) both running NTFS. I haven't had too many problems outside the acceptable "norm" with Windows, but being able to access the HDs from a boot disk if need be would be pretty nifty. These are on my home systems, btw.

Thanks
 
Well the first thing that comes to mind is NT does not have a FAT table to get all screwed up.

NTFS is more secure and stable than FAT ever could possibly be.

There are NT Dos Boot disks that you can get if that is something really important to you.

Ill never run FAT again. So yes, NT is better, thats why all the new OSes are running on it as opposed to FAT.
 
My main PC is on NTFS, but my laptop is on FAT because I dual boot with Linux.
 
David said:
My main PC is on NTFS, but my laptop is on FAT because I dual boot with Linux.

I made a small FAT partition to move files back and forth between the two OSes. I would never run the OS on FAT though.
 
{PMS}fishy said:
Well the first thing that comes to mind is NT does not have a FAT table to get all screwed up.
Sure, no File Allocation Table to screw up, but it DOES have a Master File Table that can be :D

Really, there's little "working" difference between the two formats once you throw out security and the ability to access from good ol' MS-DOS. FAT is a bit flakier, NEEDING to have scandisk/chkdsk ran if the disk was in use when a reboot/power loss occurs. NTFS usually (I'd say 1 in 4 times) can get away with not running chkdsk on a bad shutdown because it's journalized.

If you really want to be able to use a boot disk, FAT is fine. If you want to files to be safer go NTFS.


BTW: If the OS dies and you need a bootdisk to access the drive, I believe the recovery console that comes with the XP install CD will let you access and screw around with an NTFS partition. Still can't be read by 9x, but can use a kind of bootdisk on it :)
JigPu
 
JigPu said:


BTW: If the OS dies and you need a bootdisk to access the drive, I believe the recovery console that comes with the XP install CD will let you access and screw around with an NTFS partition. Still can't be read by 9x, but can use a kind of bootdisk on it :)
JigPu

The recovery console is very limited, and I believe that it only allows modifications to the windows dirrectory. Sort of useful if you have a few corrupted files.
 
Didn't know that :) I don't mess around with the recovery console much (yea for XP!), so I assumed it would let you play around anywhere.

JigPu
 
The New Technology File System (NTFS)
1 Introduction
Objective: a new File System with improved security and reliability for WinNT and Win2000. NTFS was intended to overcome the problems and weaknesses of the MS FAT system.

The main features of NTFS are:

ć Networking:
Required by businesses
ć Security and Access control:
The original FAT system had no security features, these are very important particularly in networks (shared files).
ć Removing the partition size limitations:
Over the years, hard disk capacity has increased considerable, far beyond the limits imposed by the FAT system.
ć Reliability:
Means to recover following a failure (minimise losses).
ć Storage efficiency:
Reduce slack (internal fragmentation)
ć Allow long file names:
Conventional FAT was limited to 8+3 characters. NTFS is designed to allow up to 255 characters.
2 Architecture
The figure below shows a NTFS disk partition. Every NTFS partition on a single disk will look like this one.

With the exception of the partition boot sector, every structure in NTFS is a file. Special files that contain the file system control information are called metadata files. These files contain information such as lists of files on the partition, volume information, cluster allocations, etc. In turn every file in NTFS, is a collection of attributes. NTFS attributes are regular file attributes such as those in the FAT. Data stored is also an attribute.
2.1 Partition Boot Sector
Also known as Volume Boot Sector or Record.
The partition boot occupies the first 16 sectors of partition. It consists of the BIOS Parameter Block and the Volume Boot Code. The former contains information such as the volume label and its size. The latter contains a small program that tells the system how to load the operating system.
2.2 Metadata Files
Also known as system files. These system files are created when the hard disk is formatted with an NTFS partition. The MFT is a metadata file. Other metadata files are the log file, volume descriptor, attribute definition table, root directory, cluster allocation bit map, volume boot code, bad cluster file, quota tables, and upper case table.
2.3 Master File Table
The Master File Table contains information about every file and directory in a NTFS volume. The MFT is a relation database. Whenever a file or directory is created an entry (record) is created in the MFT. When retrieving a file, it is the starting point to look up the file. NB the MFT is a metadata file. The MFT is analogous to the File Allocation Table.
The MFT stores file (and directory) information has records. Each record is a collection of attributes. The actual data to be stored is an attribute called data attribute. Since the MFT is a file, it is also made up of records containing attributes. A record is limited in size (bytes), which means the number/size of attributes in a record is limited to the record size. If a file is sufficiently small, the attributes may be stored in the MFT record itself (resident attributes). For larger files, the data attributes are stored outside the MFT (non-resident attributes). In this case, the MFT record contains a pointer to the records in the extent (outside the MFT) containing the file data attribute(s). For very large files, the number of pointers to extents may be so large that even these pointers are made non-resident. (Satisfy yourself that this overcomes the file size limitation of FAT). NB the pointers are attributes in an MFT record. Performance is improved for small files since only the MFT record need be read.
When an NTFS volume is formatted, additional space is reserved (beyond the MFT area) for the MFT to grow into as more files are stored. To maintain good performance, this space is contiguous. However if this reserve space fills up, additional space is allocated to the MFT in the extent region. This space is not contiguous and results in fragmentation. [Compare with FAT32, FAT32 support large partitions but at the expense of internal fragmentation (slack) and huge FAT table.] The maximum NTFS partition size is 264 bytes.
2.4 NTFS Directory
Same hierarchical tree structure as FAT or Unix. Because NTFS file records/attributes contain information (other than the data) about the file, the NTFS directory contains only information about itself, the directory and not about the files in the directory (as FAT does). Since a directory is just another file, it also has an entry in the MFT. The MFT record for every directory file contains the following:

1. Header (H): General file information e.g. pointers to directory records.
2. Standard Information Attribute (SI): This attribute contains "standard" information stored for all files and directories. E.g. date/time-stamps for directory creation, last-modified, accessed, etc. It also contains typical attributes (in the FAT sense of the word) associated with a file (such as whether the file is read-only, hidden, and so on.)
3. File Name Attribute (FN): This attribute stores the name associated with the directory. Note that a directory can have multiple filename attributes, to allow the storage of the "regular" name of the file, along with an MS-DOS short filename alias.
4. Index Root Attribute: This attribute contains the actual index of files contained within the directory, or part of the index if it is large. If the directory is small, the entire index will fit within this attribute in the MFT; if it is too large, some of the information is here and the rest is stored in external index buffer attributes, as described below.
5. Index Allocation Attribute: If a directory index is too large to fit in the index root attribute, the MFT record for the directory will contain an index allocation attribute, which contains pointers to index buffer entries containing the rest of the directory's index information.
6. Security Descriptor (SD) Attribute: This attribute contains security information that controls access to the directory and its contents. The directory's Access Control Lists (ACLs) and related data are stored here.

2.5 NTFS Files
As said before, NTFS stores files as a collection of attributes, the actual data is just another attribute. The MFT record for every file contains the following:

1. Header (H): General file information e.g. pointers to directory records.
2. Standard Information Attribute (SI): This attribute contains "standard" information stored for all files and directories. This includes fundamental properties such as date/time-stamps for when the file was created, modified and accessed. It also contains the "standard" FAT-like attributes usually associated with a file (such as whether the file is read-only, hidden, and so on.)
3. File Name Attribute (FN): This attribute stores the name associated with the file. Note that a file can have multiple file name attributes, to allow the storage of the "regular" name of the file, along with an MS-DOS short filename alias.
4. Data (Data) Attribute: This attribute stores the actual contents of the file.
5. Security Descriptor (SD) Attribute: This attribute contains security information that controls access to the file. The file's Access Control Lists (ACLs) and related data are stored here.

As explained earlier, the records of small files are made resident while larger files are non-resident. The maximum theoretical file size is the disk size less the MFT and System areas.
2.5.1 Procedure to store a file in NTFS
1. Small files will be stored entirely in the MFT entry where possible.
2. Larger files will not fit in the MFT record and so the data attribute is made non-resident. The entry for the data attribute in the MFT contains pointers to data runs (also called extents) which are blocks of data stored in contiguous sectors in the partition, outside the MFT zone.
3. For even larger files, when there isn't even sufficient space in the MFT record for the list of pointers, the list of pointers is itself made non-resident. The main MFT record will not have a data attribute but instead a pointer to a second MFT record that contains the data attribute's list of pointers to data runs.
4. This process will continue, as a file becomes larger and larger, creating multiple non-resident MFT records if needed to store an increasing number of pointers to different data runs.

Each extent is a contiguous group of clusters. There are two implications, first the file need not be read sequentially and second fragmentation is low (lower than FAT).
2.5.2 File name
File names can be up to 255 characters long and are not case-sensitive. However NTFS preserves character case for display. File links are possible with NTFS.
3 Reliability
This section deals with NTFS¡¦ ability to recover from a computer crash with minimal loss and a consistent file system. The problem arises when a system crash occurs while writing data to file. We have seen that for any FS, writing a file to disk involves reserving clusters, writing system information and writing the actual data. Imagine that the computer hangs-up after allocating clusters but not writing the data. When the computer is re-booted (re-started) it is in an inconsistent state.
To overcome consistency problems, NTFS employs a transaction-based or transactional scheme. Each action in an operation a.k.a transaction, for example to save a file to disk, must complete successfully for the operation/ transaction, to be considered
 
Wow guys, thanks! I think without a doubt I can say I'll stick with NTFS, which is as I assumed earlier on.

Also...
germanjulian said:


and I can boot from a cdrom and change/transfer network ntfs files.

you just need the right free program.

Link? :D
 
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