Celeron and 3D performance ( MadOnion2000)

[Tabasco]

Hello all.
I'm new to the overclocking world and have just got my celeron 850 running ok @ 935 so far, temps stable and still at default voltage 1.7.
But...
My question is how do they perform on 3d tests like Mad onion 2000, I've just run mine and got 1675 with a GTS2 card, is this ok?
my P3 500 was better than that.
So are the celerons not suited to 3d applications or is there something else I can try??
or am I asking too much??
Thanks

Celeron 850@935
Creative GTS2 (nvidea driver )
512mb pc133
Soundblaster Live

[Endeavor]

celerons are pretty much a watered down PIII
the celeron is about 300mhz (give or take a 100) from thier PIII counterparts
so basically a celeron is a slower intel PIII

[Godfodda]

Tabasco (Jul 30, 2001 04:47 p.m.):

I'm new to the overclocking world and have just got my celeron 850 running ok @ 935 so far, temps stable and still at default voltage 1.7.
But...
My question is how do they perform on 3d tests like Mad onion 2000, I've just run mine and got 1675 with a GTS2 card, is this ok?
my P3 500 was better than that.
So are the celerons not suited to 3d applications or is there something else I can try??
or am I asking too much??


Just checked here (http://support.intel.com/support/processors/sspec/p3p.htm) for specs on the 500. If it's the non-E you had, then it had 512k cache. If it was the E version, it still had 256k which is twice the amount of your Celeron. Cache is good in my book. Don't know if that's it, though.

AGP rate (assuming your vid uses that) may be set to lower than optimal rate... or sidebanding, or something along those lines. I got 1696 with a Celeron 400 at 96FSB (576) and a Voodoo, so I'm guessing it's somewhere other than the CPU.

[It_The_Cow]

The PIII's main advantages would be the enlarged cache and more instructions. That could explain why your Celeron did worse, even at 935. Now that doesn't mean the Celeron sucks at 3D apps, it just means the PIII is better optimized for them

[Godfodda]

It_The_Cow (Jul 30, 2001 05:42 p.m.):
The PIII's main advantages would be the enlarged cache and SSE technology. SSE helps in multimedia applications, which would explain why your Celeron did worse, even at 935. Now that doesn't mean the Celeron sucks at 3D apps, it just means the PIII is better optimized for them

Celeron doesn't have SSE? I didn't know that. Guess that would make it quite a bit different from the P3 then.

[Endeavor]

i have the 512k cache on my ole katmai! :)

[It_The_Cow]

Godfodda (Jul 30, 2001 06:04 p.m.):
It_The_Cow (Jul 30, 2001 05:42 p.m.):
The PIII's main advantages would be the enlarged cache and SSE technology. SSE helps in multimedia applications, which would explain why your Celeron did worse, even at 935. Now that doesn't mean the Celeron sucks at 3D apps, it just means the PIII is better optimized for them

Celeron doesn't have SSE? I didn't know that. Guess that would make it quite a bit different from the P3 then.D'oh. Celeron does have SSE, but the PIII has a few more instructions that makes it better

[Sklathill]

Whoa whoa...the only difference between Celeron 2 and PIII is the cache. They sliced off half the cache. Have to remember they also sliced off half of the pipelines because of that...that's what kills the performance as much, if not moreso, than the reduction.

[Carmine_Paterno]

It isn't the chip that is killing performance.

You said you have a geforce 2 gts right? You shouldn't be scoring 1675 in 3dmark2000! I score 1880 with my duron 750 @ 976 1.888v 162fsb X 6, and a VOODOO3 and thats in 3dmark2001.

Maybe try updating your detonators. Have you reinstalled you operating system after putting in the 850?

That can sometimes be the problem. After putting in a new processor, always do a complete reformat/reinstall. By the way, i found that windows ME gives a better 3dmark score than 98/98se does.

Hope that helped some.

[It_The_Cow]

That's a good point. Either re-install your OS, or get a program to do a clean sweep of your old video card drivers

[Shadow ÒÓ]

Sklathill (Jul 30, 2001 07:49 p.m.):
Whoa whoa...the only difference between Celeron 2 and PIII is the cache. They sliced off half the cache. Have to remember they also sliced off half of the pipelines because of that...that's what kills the performance as much, if not moreso, than the reduction.

that's far from true. The new Celerons have SSE where the old ones (like his) don't. Cache is a major difference, but there's a large set of instructions the P III has that the celeron's don't have.

G2 What? MX? GTS? Your score sounds a bit low......try tweakfiles.com and see what you can accomplish with some G2 Tweaks. Those who are comparing VooDoo cards to the G2 shouldn't. G2 will always score higher, but not necessarily look better.

[Sklathill]

I'm really sure that the Celeron is a PIII with 128k cache and 4 way set associativity. They're both built off the same Coppermine core and have the same set of SSE instructions, no more, no less. I've looked and looked and looked some more and can't find anywhere that says otherwise.

Anyone remember that Firingsquad review where they disabled the cache on a PIII 850 and set the FSB to 66, showing that it performed exactly the same as a Celeron 566 with cache disabled?

[Sklathill]

And the Celerons have had SSE since the 533A and the 566. His 850 DEFINITELY has SSE.

[Shadow ÒÓ]

ok you may have me on the SSE thing.....I was fairly confident SSE came in with the Celly 2's?

Never owned one, so I guess I shouldn't be so confident.

Where's Mr B when you need him!

[Sklathill]

Shadow ÒÓ (Jul 31, 2001 12:49 p.m.):
ok you may have me on the SSE thing.....I was fairly confident SSE came in with the Celly 2's?

Never owned one, so I guess I shouldn't be so confident.

Where's Mr B when you need him!

Well, I've owned a lot of Celerons. :) I've went through 4 on my current motherboard (an Abit BF6). A 400 stuck at 500, a 366@550, a poor 566, and now this 633 that I'm working my way on. None of them ever fried, I just gave them to friends or retired them. Celery IIs are the Coppermine Celerons, starting from 533a all the way up the ladder to the 900 listed at Intel's site. Celery II, less cache, 4 way set associativity, fewer cache hits because of that. This combined with the much lower FSB and you get much lower performance on 3d games and benchmarks.

But hey, I don't have to change my mobo, and I'm getting these chips for about 50 bucks or less. My wallet's happy and I'm happy.

[Sklathill]

Ahh...found that FS article.

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/p3vc2/default.asp

[*spazzed*]

My celeron 533 CBo chip doesn't have SSE, maybe that helps.......

[Godfodda]

Shadow ÒÓ (Jul 31, 2001 11:14 a.m.):
. Those who are comparing VooDoo cards to the G2 shouldn't. G2 will always score higher, but not necessarily look better.

I think that's what we were saying. We Voodoo posters said that ours were running higher marks where his should be more or less taking us to school. I'm sure neither of us meant it as bragging.

[Sklathill]

*spazzed* (Jul 31, 2001 02:06 p.m.):
My celeron 533 CBo chip doesn't have SSE, maybe that helps.......

This doesn't make any sense to me. All cXX chips have SSE. The 533 mB0 doesn't, as it's built off the old Mendocino core. The cB0 is the only Celermine 533 out there, and it does indeed have SSE. Are you sure you have a Coppermine128? What does your Sandra say?

[Carmine_Paterno]

All chips (Celeron), 566 and up have SSE. The only difference between the cB0 cores, and the cC0 cores, was a voltage increase from 1.5 to 1.7v.

The difference between the 800 and the rest of the Celeron's is the 100mhz fsb.

All Celeron's have 1/2 cache, and are less associative when compared to a P3's cache.

Hope that cleared some things up. :)

[*spazzed*]

here's a screen shot.......

[Sklathill]

What about closer to the top of that dialog? THe Processor Model Information?

[Carmine_Paterno]

the 533 does not have SSE. only the 566 and up has SSE

[Sklathill]

Carmine_Paterno (Jul 31, 2001 08:01 p.m.):
the 533 does not have SSE. only the 566 and up has SSE

There's definitely a 533 with SSE. It's often referred to as the 533A and only has one stepping, cB0. It never had a retail release, was only available in OEM.

[Carmine_Paterno]

From the point of view of retail there was no 533a, yes, there was one oem.

I stand corrected. Thank you