smokin hot 9800pro w/vga silencer pls help

[illbreakit]

OK, 2 days ago, I did a atitool and it came up with 403/370 stable. I ran each test till it said it was stable for over 15 min. That was with stock cooling with the addition of AS 3 and Digidoc 5+ sensor on the outside of the heatsink towards the AGP slot reaing 43/44* C. That night, I changed to a VGA Silencer. Now, I can't even start ati tool without artifacts. The digidoc sensor is placed on the back of the fin's of the silencer, it reads 59+*C depending how long I show 3D view in ati tool. Also, whaen I start up ATI tool, I get this error every time.

Anyone have advice? Is my card dead? Is it possible to tighten up the Silencer to much witht he stock mount's? I tightened according to the direction's, Thought it was pretty tight, then the little metal bar snapped. They said in instuctions that it would bend, not break. I built another bar at work, I have since tried it with minimum pressure and clamped tightly, it makes no difference

PS, I just ran both core and mem in ATI Tool. I shut them off when they reached 300 each. It can't even do a 300/300 now. What do I do???????

[Radius]

hmm than format your PC ;) i would do that

[Sentential]

hmm than format your PC i would do that

That test dosnt mean a damn thing. Mine does the same thing with the VGA silencer. F*it. My raddie runs fine.

I'd go purely by artrifracting in things like games and 3dmark.

My max for continous use is 430mhz / 321mhz. That blasted test fuggers up my monitor and reboots meh PC.

IMHO ignore it:cool:

[f00t]

sounds to me like you should reseat the hs. i think that the vga silencer is not making good contact eith the core.

i dont think that you busted your card by "overtightening" the hs. afterall, i put a maze i on my tnt2 using a stock 96p hs. after all was tight the tnt2 looked like it had just withstood an earthquake (bent, buckled, and about to snap) but still ran 100% and does so to this day

[Sentential]

sounds to me like you should reseat the hs. i think that the vga silencer is not making good contact eith the core.
Same problem, reseating it dosnt help. But I know my card is fine. If it runs ur games then its ok.

my .02

[illbreakit]

Have reseated it liek 5 time's. With AS ceramique, AS 3 Stock paste. I have lapped the Silencer. It is totally smooth. I am now getting the teltale red rippiing and artifact's as I write this. I have had another 9800Pro that overheated because I forgot to plug the fan on the stock cooler. Not with this one tho, it has been pluged in, and is working.
BTW, I can not hold my finger on the back(the alum facing the vid card, back of fin's) of the silencer. It is now that hot. Well, I will get my stock sink back from work tonight, a bud's using it for hole template to make a waterblock for his.

Can you guys touch your silencer? or is it to hot?

[jcsurg]

Mine runs cool . Did you have your silencer heat sink grounded with the clip they included .

[Sentential]

Yea mine gets hot. Not like :eek: hot....but like...hmmmm sorta hot.

It dosnt burn my fingers at alll, but its very definatly hot. My guess is in the 50-55c* range.

[Hydr0 Styles]

If the VGA Silencer is getting hot, then that means it's got good contact with the core, and it's doing its job.

So, the problem is that it's not getting rid of the heat.

I would make sure that the fan is on high, and that it's working correctly.

[Mr.Radar]

Have you removed the shim? That might be keeping the VGA Silencer from making good contact.

[illbreakit]

Yes, shim is removed, fan is on high. Getting artifacs on desktop now. guess it is my card going bad. Man, I just got this one too.

[T07N]

Originally posted by illbreakit
Yes, shim is removed, fan is on high. Getting artifacs on desktop now. guess it is my card going bad. Man, I just got this one too.

Atitool = bad!

I think someone on Rage3d blew his card too by running atitool:

http://rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33743806&highlight=atitool

I think you just burnt another card... But the only difference between him and you is... He didn't overclock.

[illbreakit]

Originally posted by T07N


But the only difference between him and you is... He didn't overclock.

That's the thing, I haven't overclocked it yet. I just let ATI Tool find the max core and mem. Then I shut comp off with default settings, and went to work. When I came home, rebooted, voila, al this heat and artifact problem's.

Just this morning, when I turned comp on, in 6 min my card went from 21c to 53c just cheching post's on this board. That's with the VGA Silencer.

If it is ATITool's fault, I dunno what to do then.....

[hemidude]

I see your 2800 is at 2288. Is it unlocked? What is your fsb? I had similar problems. At higher fsb your agp/pci frequency also rises. So you might have to change the divider or lock your agp if you can. I was at the exact same speed as you and had nothing but trouble till i returned the fsb to normal. Hope this helps.

[illbreakit]

I allready thought about that Hemidude, but I am at 181FSB with 5x devider. I have allways ran that. Nothing there has changed. Acctually, I am 1Mhz less on FSB with more devider than I used to run. I used to run 16FSB over with a 4X devider with my AThlon 1333 and this card, now 15MHZ over and 5x devider. Acctually 3MHZ AGP over instead of 4

[Pntgrd]

Thought it was pretty tight, then the little metal bar snapped.
Doesn't anyone else think this might be the at or near the root of the problem. I have mounted and remounted a Silencer numerous times. I have tried and tried and I cannot even begin to imagine how if you were mounting this right, you could break the metal bar. In the normal position it will not have to bend much over 1/4" until it contacts the rubber spacers. There is no way it would "break" under those circumstances.

[Sentential]

21c to 53c just cheching post's on this board. That's with the VGA Silencer.

^^ Thats normal. My raddie breaks 56c* on load with my diode. Once again, screw that stupid tool. Do it the right way and check for artifracts in gamez.

[hemidude]

Mine ran forever at that configuration too, then all of a sudden nothing but problems. Maybe you should try it and see if it makes a difference? By the way I managed to break both of my silencers metal brackets. Doh! Well i hope you get it fixed.

[glock19owner]

I caught what Pntgrd caught...and that is the problem...since they stated I built another bar at work, I have since tried it with minimum pressure and clamped tightly, it makes no difference

Odds are since they made a new bar...this new mod is not allowing the GPU and heatsink to seat correctly which in turn is causing it to overheat even when underclocked...

[illbreakit]

Originally posted by Pntgrd

Doesn't anyone else think this might be the at or near the root of the problem. I have mounted and remounted a Silencer numerous times. I have tried and tried and I cannot even begin to imagine how if you were mounting this right, you could break the metal bar. In the normal position it will not have to bend much over 1/4" until it contacts the rubber spacers. There is no way it would "break" under those circumstances.
That's the thing Pntgrd, 1/4 inch is what mione was away, and it broke. I will take some pics next week, the broken piece is at work right now.

As far as the ATItool, whell, whatever it says that's no matter, but, when I can't hold my finger on the back of the Silencer, and I have artifacts on my desktop, let alone in a game. I just want to make sure it's not the silencer that caused it.

[glock19owner]

it sounds like the cooler...but because the cooler is NOT making good contact...

You have to reallize that with a stock HS, the 9800 pros can run well past 70c...so the heatsink HAS to be making good contact or it will overheat...like in your case...even when running deafult...

[illbreakit]

Originally posted by glock19owner


Odds are since they made a new bar...this new mod is not allowing the GPU and heatsink to seat correctly which in turn is causing it to overheat even when underclocked...

Trust me, it is seated correctly. I have the capability with the new mounting bar of tightening it so tight that I would strip the screws if I so wished. It is just a solid piece of 1/4" square stock with 2 holes drilled in it that still slides in the blue plastic piece. I have a perfect impression in the silencer of the etching on the GPU core. It was making perfect, flat contact

Here's a pic of my mounting bar and the impression in the face of the silencer.

[illbreakit]

Here's a pic to show how the silencer is lapped

[Sentential]

Im not liking those burn marks. Mine has never ever dont that B4. There is something seriously wrong with what ur doing.

It is not normal to have that sorta impression if ur using TIM.

[glock19owner]

Originally posted by Sentential
Im not liking those burn marks. Mine has never ever dont that B4. There is something seriously wrong with what ur doing.

It is not normal to have that sorta impression if ur using TIM.

Neither do I...that is the sign of a heatsink not seating correctly...

And just because you can tighten the bar down DOES NOT mean that GPU and heatsink are seating correctly either...

If you still think it is the heatsink...let me say...there is no way that a heatsink can go bad...a piece of metal is a piece of metal ;)...

but by the burn marks...it looks like one side is not seating correctly...

You are not screwing down one side all the way then the other are you?

[Sentential]

Its not the seating...its the burns. Ive never seen that b4, plus that one one the side. That makes me really nervous.

Obviously something is getting very very hot. Hot enough to weld the paint to ur HSF.:eek:

[glock19owner]

I have seen that also...when my modded heatsink wasn't seating correctly on my GF4 Ti4200...when I swore up and down it was seating correctly...found out it was half seated after it fried...and had almost the exact same burn marks...

I would link you to the thread showing the burn marks on my modded heatsink...but was banned from the forum I had it in...

[illbreakit]

Originally posted by glock19owner



but by the burn marks...it looks like one side is not seating correctly...

You are not screwing down one side all the way then the other are you?
It's not burn marks, if you would look closely at your core, you would see that the lettering is ETCHED into the core, not printed on. That etching, is rough, that roughness has left an impression on my sink. I have also been using AS Ceramique, or AS3. I have tried both compounds nad they have same result's. I know a heatsink can not 'go bad' what my problem is with is the amount of heat the GPU is putting out. It heats the Silencer up right away. The silencer fan is on high, it is spinning fine. I am an electrical engeneer, I know heat and electricity. I am trying to figure out now what is causing my GPU to create so much heat.

If the Silencer was not 'seated correctly' like you all protest it isn't. Then why would it get really hot? The silencer is running approx 60*C halfway along it's fin's on the backside measured with a termal diode. I also can't touch it barely after 15 min of idle on desktop.

Also, I have no artifact's on my desktop(1024x768 75Hz refresh) until the diode on the silencer reads 32 deg. Then the artifact's start coming. So obviously, the GPU is getting hot, but why?

[glock19owner]

http://home.insightbb.com/~myglock19/picture_003.jpg

That sure looks like a burn mark to me...but if you are positive that it is seated correctly...then you are shorting something out possible...

I know there is nothing wrong with the silencer...since a piece of metal can not go bad ;)...and my modded silencer keeps my Pro idled at about 5c over ambience and since the AS5 has finally burned in...it never gets hotter then 35c...that is when running at 1.8v's and 500/387...at normal voltage 1.5 (1.6v's 200+FSB) and 412/365 it never gets over 31c.

[illbreakit]

That's a reflection Glock


Here's another pic that show's the face better.The spot on the bottom now, is a reflection of my hair

[Sentential]

Ohhh. Nevermind. Well maybe urs just runs really hot. I dunno at this point.

[glock19owner]

lol...ok...boy does that look like a burn mark...

Had some of us wondering about that...

If you are positive that the silencer is seating correctly...a quick way to tell is...put thermal past on the GPU, then mount the HS...then take the HS off and see if you have a perfect square on the HS...if not, then you know for a fact its not getting a good contact...

If it is getting a good connection...check and make sure the HS is not touching anything on the VC...and make sure the VC is seating correcting in the AGP slot...I had to work my 9800 Pro in a little bit to get mine to fully seat correctly in the AGP slot...this is a known issue with the silencer and certain MB's...the silencer can make the VC feel likes its in the AGP slot when in facts it slightly still not seated correctly in the AGP slot...

Also make sure you have no thermal paste anywhere on the VC expect on the GPU...thermal paste is conductive...cerm. isn't...

[illbreakit]

Ya Glock, I have a nice flat imprint in the Ceramique, allways have, that was why I have been concerened from the start. It is not touching any component's, other than the little metal grounding tab that you put on with the back plate. The vid card sure seem's seated in the AGP slot. My Mobo won't even boot if it's a little wonky in the slot, that I know. Maybe it is a bum card, and when I let ATI tool test the core, it went to high and the card crapped out???

It works fine until it get's warm. When I play a game, everything is ok for a little while, then I start seeing the occasiional dot, then red and green patches and stuff. Like right now, some of the letters as I type this are green, and red. It's just adding to an allready VERRY stressfull week. I am sorry if I am takin it out on you guys any way. between tis and typical window's error's, I wana give up for a while lol

Atleast with my new case(avatar) I have my CPU temps nice and stable.

[glock19owner]

just curious...have you tried reinstalling the stock heatsink to see if the heat issue is still there?

Originally posted by illbreakit
I am sorry if I am takin it out on you guys any way. between tis and typical window's error's, I wana give up for a while lol

I have been working and building systems for almost 20yrs...believe me...I know exactelly how you feel...sometimes its best to just walk away from a troubled system for a day or so...1 of 2 things will happen...

1. It will magically fix itself
2. You will have a clear head to finally find/solve the issue at hand.

[illbreakit]

Ya, I have the stock heatsink on now and it is worse for ripping. guess I have to face it that my card is fried

[glock19owner]

Take a day off or so and then take the heatsink off and check all over the board to make sure you did not scratch it somehow or have some AS on it you might of missed and check your memory chips...if you have to...get a magnifying glass (no joke)...also clean all of your memory chips and surrounding area of the GPU to make sure everything is clean...

If the card is ok..no scrathes or any AS...and it still does that after rechecking it...RMA it if its still under warranty...

[Bugeyes]

If you over tighten the screws on the silencer you will damage your card!

The contact point between the two screws acts as a fulcrum and as such applies considerable pressure to the back of the GPU.

You may have cracked one of the contact points that attach a trace on the card to the GPU... so when things heat up a short occurs?

Just my theory anyway!

[Day]

put the stock cooler on and return it back to the shop for exchange :)

[termin@tor]

Originally posted by Bugeyes
If you over tighten the screws on the silencer you will damage your card!

The contact point between the two screws acts as a fulcrum and as such applies considerable pressure to the back of the GPU.

You may have cracked one of the contact points that attach a trace on the card to the GPU... so when things heat up a short occurs?

Just my theory anyway!

I don't know why, but this sounds like the most reasonable explanation to me!

And lol at your hair mark on the card... I too thought it was burnt!

RMA the card, I guess that's the only choice you have.

[illbreakit]

I hate to do it, but I guess I'll return it. I bought it at Future Shop, and got the extended waranty , $79 more..... ( I know it' spelled wrong, but can't think of the correct spelling after 19 beer's. ucky I can type, search n desrtoy styl) . I'll use tha warranty I guess.

[MrBaz]

Originally posted by f00t
sounds to me like you should reseat the hs. i think that the vga silencer is not making good contact eith the core.

i dont think that you busted your card by "overtightening" the hs. afterall, i put a maze i on my tnt2 using a stock 96p hs. after all was tight the tnt2 looked like it had just withstood an earthquake (bent, buckled, and about to snap) but still ran 100% and does so to this day

++

[Pntgrd]

I hate to do it, but I guess I'll return it. I bought it at Future Shop, and got the extended waranty

I'll use tha warranty I guess.

put the stock cooler on and return it back to the shop for exchange

RMA the card, I guess that's the only choice you have

Does anyone else see something wrong in this? ATI didn't make a bad card. It was screwed by the end-user. Why is it anyones responsibility but the person who broke it in the first place. Take responsibility and move on and learn from your mistake. I scratched a trace on a 9800Pro but I didn't try to RMA it. It wasn't ATI's fault OR responsibility to protect me from myself. Ther is starting to be way too much of this discussed in these forums. Grow up people and learn to take responsibility for your own actions. GEEZ

[kct2]

He said he paid ~$80 extra for an extended warranty. It is possible that warranty allows for replacement for physical damage not covered by the original warranty.

Normally I would completely agree with you, but in this case he may actually be able to RMA card depending on the terms of that extended warranty.

[illbreakit]

kct2 is exactly right. And I am getting tired of hearing this 'You can't RMA because you put a aftermarket cooler on" BS and other crap. Do you think if you put a K&N filter on your car, that voids the manufacture's warranty? If you add Water wetter to the rad to improve cooling? What makes comp component's so much different? Artic cooling is a legit company, they have an ISO number on the silencer if I remember right. You are allowed to change the heatsink on your CPU. What is different on a GPU?

[kct2]

Originally posted by illbreakit
kct2 is exactly right. And I am getting tired of hearing this 'You can't RMA because you put a aftermarket cooler on" BS and other crap. Do you think if you put a K&N filter on your car, that voids the manufacture's warranty? If you add Water wetter to the rad to improve cooling? What makes comp component's so much different? Artic cooling is a legit company, they have an ISO number on the silencer if I remember right. You are allowed to change the heatsink on your CPU. What is different on a GPU?


The automotive analogy is close, but it is not entirely accurate. You're thinking of the Magnuson Moss Warranty-Federal Trade Commission Improvements Act (15 U.S.C. §§ 2301-2312) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/ch50.html) which protects consumers from having a warranty voided if a 3rd party part is used as a replacement part instead of an OEM part. Air filters in cars/trucks is a good example of this. What was happening is dealers were telling customers that unless they purchased an OEM air filter from the dealership, they would be voiding the car's entire warranty. This was illegal because of the act I mentioned above, unless the manufacture provides the filter for free as part of the warranty or could prove the use of an aftermarket part caused the problem leading to the warranty claim the claim could not be denied.

However, ATI's warranty (and I'm sure that of all video card makers’) specifically makes a provision voiding the warranty if the product "has been altered, modified or repaired by non-ATI service personnel." This provision is completely legal. This is because if your HSF were to fail for some reason it would be covered under the product’s warranty. There is no reason, in ATI’s eyes, for a consumer to modify or repair a video card; all the parts are covered by the warranty, even the fan. Automakers, generally, do not cover air filters - or other wear items - under warranty.

Also, warranties can be voided if the failure is caused by damage done by the consumer. ((c) Waiver of standards
The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).
from TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 50 > Sec. 2304.

Also, you aren’t allowed to use a 3rd party heatsink with a retail box CPU and retain the warranty. It is in the bold print here (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_867_2139,00.html) (for AMD PIB). Again this is legal because AMD will replace the heatsink free of charge if it were to fail.

Basically, the Videocard/CPU+HSF is the ‘product.’ By removing the heatsink, or using a 3rd party heatsink, you are altering the product and the manufacture is no longer responsible for its performance. An automobile is made up a number of products, an air filter is just one that is user-serviceable; a video card is only one product with nothing that is user-serviceable (the fact the heatsink happens to be removable doesn’t make it user-serviceable).

As I said, unless the extended warranty specifically covers physical damage, a claim on that can also be denied.

[Freddie]

Just a throught, as you runnig it in fast mode or do you have it in silent.

[Blimpie]

About returning the card. Granted, it was his fault for breaking it, but companies will replace it to make the consumer happy . Companies do this, to gain a reputation. Someone says hey, whats a good brand for XXXXXXXXX. And their friend goes, oh, XXXXXX brand, they even replaced a card i broke!.

My father owns a hobby shop, and our distributers are the same way. A few weeks ago, i runed a $200 nitro engine, the glow plug got stuck in the head of the engine. Yea, it had to be my fault, the plug went in, but wont come out. I called the company, they said "send it in, we will get you a new one ASAP". THATS custormer support. You know what? I push that brand hard now, because of their customer support. It wasnt their fault i stripped it, it was mine. They made me happy by replacing it, and they make more money because of it. The companies that dont do this are the ones that will probably be going out of buisness soon, due to people not purchasing their products because of no customer support.

Thats my opinion. Yes, it is wrong, but if they want to continue making money, they will replace it.

Again, just my 2 cents.

[illbreakit]

Hey, what kind of nitro you runnin? I have a RC10GT with a TRX 2.5 powerplant, and a OFNA MBX with a WS7II. Cool to see a fellow RC'er and it's not on the RC site's

[Sentential]

Man....I wish I had ur problem now. Ive decided to use my SK7 on my 9800. Now I need more voltage to further my OC. If there was only a way to increase voltage without a volt mod