Thought I'm getting PC3500 and got PC3000

I think I've just got screwed. I ordered 2x 512MB HyperX dimms from Akiba.fi:

http://www.akiba.fi/productinfo.php?id=498&page=pckomponentit

They advertise them as "Kingston HyperX 440MHz 512MB CL2-2-2" and at the picture they show a PC3500. Naturally, I thought I'm getting 2 PC3500 dimms with BH-5 chips (the old KHX3500 was manufactured using BH-5s). Well, the post man just rang 10 minutes ago, I opened the package and realize I got KHX3000 (PC3000) dimms and not KHX3500 (PC3500).

On the box sticker it says:

KHX3000/512
DESCRIPTION:
512MB Memory Module
512MB PC3000 CL2 184-Pin DIMM
WINBOND ASSY IN THE USA

The sticker on the memories says:

KHX3000/512
9905193-023.A00
1242354-0360176* 2.5V
ASSY IN USA CE

* The second dimm has 1242354-0358365 here. I guess the second number is the serial number of the dimm?

I can't check the memories now, because I'm not at home and we'll be back only in 10 days (travelling abroad). So I don't know whether these sticks will operate like I would like them too (high speed, low latency; able to overdrive my 2.8C substanitally).

Was the original HyperX PC3200 (KHX3200 non-A) just an overclocked PC3000? Was the PC3500 just an overclocked PC3000 as well?

Do you think I got screwed or got my money's worth? I frankly don't have much experience and don't know what to think

I dont think kingston ever used BH5 chips in its pc3500.

All BH5 is just BH5, if its rated for pc3000, or if its rated for pc3500 it will still reach the same speeds. Unless it has been speed binned, but BH5 is so good it usually never is, and I dont think kingston was speedbinning back in the pc3000 days.

Thats good ram, dont worry. I took mine up to 250MHz with 3.3V with 2-2-2 timings.

craig588 said:

I dont think kingston ever used BH5 chips in its pc3500.

All BH5 is just BH5, if its rated for pc3000, or if its rated for pc3500 it will still reach the same speeds. Unless it has been speed binned, but BH5 is so good it usually never is, and I dont think kingston was speedbinning back in the pc3000 days.

Thats good ram, dont worry. I took mine up to 250MHz with 3.3V with 2-2-2 timings.

Click to expand...

What about the voltage? Would I need to use more voltage with the KHX3000 BH-5 than with the KHX3200 BH-5 to reach the same results? Can I run the KHX3000 as DDR400 at 2.5v with 2-2-2 just like the KHX3200?

Also, I'm worried a bit because of this info I found on another post:

A01 = BH5
A02 = BH5
A00 = CH5

Mine, as I noted above, says .A00. Does it mean it's CH-5?!

Nope, the voltages will be the same for the most part. That really depend on how good the chips are in that particular set. Either way test them out and see what they can do. I want to know what you have so I know where to buy.

Also where did you find that info about the .A00 at?

Oren said:

Also, I'm worried a bit because of this info I found on another post:

A01 = BH5
A02 = BH5
A00 = CH5

Mine, as I noted above, says .A00. Does it mean it's CH-5?!

Click to expand...

The revision numbers generally mean nothing. Yours could be (and likely is) BH-5 or BH-6 with the revision A00.

Note that on that site it shows that they tested at 220mhz(440) using 3.0v. They can probably do that speed using less volts, but that's what Akiba said they'll do.

wannaoc said:

Nope, the voltages will be the same for the most part. That really depend on how good the chips are in that particular set. Either way test them out and see what they can do. I want to know what you have so I know where to buy.

Also where did you find that info about the .A00 at?

Click to expand...

Got the A00 info here at:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=249382&highlight=a00

Although someone on another post said that the A0X thing doesn't mean anything... so I don't know what to think.

So what's the hell the difference between BH-5 HyperX KHX3000, KHX3200 and KHX3500 (hepp says there was such with BH-5)??? Just the sticker? Or that plus the testing that was done in order to verify they work at the advertised speed/timings?

I'm going for a trip for 10 days, so I'll be able to post my test results only on the 29th... I'm so curious already, it's a pitty I can't test them now.

Anyhow, I wrote an email to Akiba and told them I feel I was misleaded as the photo on their website clearly showed a KHX3500. I told them that I reserve the right to return the dimms for a full refund if they don't behave as advertised. Akiba claim they tested it at 3.0v with an ASUS P4C800-E. Maybe their board was moded, because from what I've checked the P4C800 can run just up to 2.9v. I have just an IS7, so I'm limited to 2.8v. I might get a newer Abit if I realize that the voltage is a limiting factor, or just try to do the mod.

Edit: got a reply from Akiba:

The picture is of 3500 but actually the best memory available is PC3000 which is the only memory with BH-5 chips. It will do much better than PC3500! Anyway, the resulsts should be very good and if not, we have a warranty and you can return the memory.

That is just misleading. That company seems shaddy in their practices

dont get worked up till u test them. bh5 is bh5.. the most important thing is how well they perform.. my adata hyperram says pc3200 in cpuz, and runs to 290+.

a chip is a chip, and BH-5 chips can go high

to know wether its BH-5 or CH-5 just run it at 200mhz 2-2-2 , if it can do that no problem, then you dont have CH-5

btw: looks like a weird thingy where you bought it...

I was just commenting on the fact that they only reason they labeled it like that was so they can charge the pc3500 price and not the pc3000 price. It doesn't matter if it does well in O/Cing or not. He ordered 3500 ram and got 3000 this is not how a business should be run.

They indipendantly verified it to work at 220MHz, thats even better than pc3500.

shortyes said:

I was just commenting on the fact that they only reason they labeled it like that was so they can charge the pc3500 price and not the pc3000 price. It doesn't matter if it does well in O/Cing or not. He ordered 3500 ram and got 3000 this is not how a business should be run.

Click to expand...

I actually agree with you, shortyes! I'm pretty angry at Akiba.fi. I'll be able to actually test the memory on Monday. But even if the memory will work as promised, I still don't think I'll do business with a company whose practices fall in the grey area.

Oren,

When you first wrote that you were getting KHX3500 with BH5 I warned you that it seemed a little unlikely seeing as it has been a very long time since those modules were shipped with BH5
(they were once upon a time).

Now, I think you were considerably less screwed getting KHX3000 with BH5 than had you received KHX3500 with CH5.

Later when you asked wether there were any PC4000 with BH5 I explained that it does not make such a great diference what the spec is as long as they are the right chips on a good quality PCB.

It does not say anywhere (except on the picture) what those modules are, but considering that KHX3200 is sold out and KHX3500 does not ship with BH5 anymore it should be no great surprise that they are KHX3000 modules.

You might have been abel to get hold of KHX3000 cheaper elsewhere but a lot of people shy away from them since they are worried that they might not be BH5 or that they might be poor specimen. With this deal you got assurance that they were BH5 and that they do o/c. I'll grant that DDR440 at 3V is not a stunning o/c for BH5, and that it might be of little use to you when your mobo is not capable of 3V but that information was available to you all along.

Now you get the chanse to test some of the best modules currently available on the market and they'll allow you to RMA if they don't perfom. I think that is a fair deal and you would not have got such a warranty if you had bought directly from Kingston, they don't even guarantee what chips you are going to get.

I hope they turn out to be good modules, DDR440 at 2.8V might be a bit optimistic but not impossible.

Br
hepp

I was just commenting on the fact that they only reason they labeled it like that was so they can charge the pc3500 price and not the pc3000 price.

Click to expand...

Not really.
KHX3500 is also for sale on that site and it is €4 cheaper for a 256MB stick, so if that is what he wanted he could have ordered that.

Mushkin 3500 lvl 2( with BH5 ) is also for sale there but is €37 more expensive for a 256MB stick, so they are not really charging for PC3500 with BH5.

Br
hepp

isn't all BH5 pc3200 and 3500 pretty much the same, just the 3500 has looser timings?

Well, sure.

In the case of Mushkin lvl2, the timings were the same too(except there was a note that 2-2-2-6 might not be possible with SD/CW chipset).

I even remember someone on this forum reported that they got a matched pair of Mushkin 3500 lvl2 where one stick had PC3500 in SPD and the other PC3200.

Br
hepp

hepp said:

Oren,

When you first wrote that you were getting KHX3500 with BH5 I warned you that it seemed a little unlikely seeing as it has been a very long time since those modules were shipped with BH5
(they were once upon a time).

Now, I think you were considerably less screwed getting KHX3000 with BH5 than had you received KHX3500 with CH5.

Later when you asked wether there were any PC4000 with BH5 I explained that it does not make such a great diference what the spec is as long as they are the right chips on a good quality PCB.

It does not say anywhere (except on the picture) what those modules are, but considering that KHX3200 is sold out and KHX3500 does not ship with BH5 anymore it should be no great surprise that they are KHX3000 modules.

You might have been abel to get hold of KHX3000 cheaper elsewhere but a lot of people shy away from them since they are worried that they might not be BH5 or that they might be poor specimen. With this deal you got assurance that they were BH5 and that they do o/c. I'll grant that DDR440 at 3V is not a stunning o/c for BH5, and that it might be of little use to you when your mobo is not capable of 3V but that information was available to you all along.

Now you get the chanse to test some of the best modules currently available on the market and they'll allow you to RMA if they don't perfom. I think that is a fair deal and you would not have got such a warranty if you had bought directly from Kingston, they don't even guarantee what chips you are going to get.

I hope they turn out to be good modules, DDR440 at 2.8V might be a bit optimistic but not impossible.

Br
hepp

Click to expand...

I see your point, Hepp. I would still hope Akiba would have explicitly noted that this is a KHX3000 chip. Anyhow, I was maybe a bit harsh earlier, as the points you've noted are correct; they do give me the possibility to RMA. I'm waiting to Monday when I'll be finally able to test the dimms. I'll update

Oren

I came home last night from my trip and managed to run just a few tests. This evening many more will follow! First of all, the 2 dimms work in dual channel, which is good They read as DDR333, and my CPU:RAM ratio is set automatically to 5:4 if I don't override manually, but that was expected I guess. I set the ratio to 1:1 (for 200MHz) and changed from SPD to 2-2-2-5, while setting my IS7-E board to F1 (the highest GAT setting). The computer booted into Windows. However, after the boot, Windows encountered some problems and started counting down to shutdown. I raised to voltage from 1.6v, but with any voltage I chose, up to the maximum of 1.8v, Windows still encountered errors after a few minutes of work, with blue screens and such. Setting to SPD and then to F1 seems a bit better (it took Windows longer until it encountered the first problem, or so it seems)., although than CPU-Z claims the memory is running at 5:4, while it's actually set to 1:1 according to the BIOS. CPU-Z still reads the timings as 2-2-2-5 (I guess the F1 mode force the memory to run at this timing, and also enables PAT). I decided not to trust Windows and ran MemTest all night with the manual 2-2-2-5 setting and F1. Surprisingly enough, after over 30 loops there was not a SINGLE error! This makes me wonder why Windows encounters problems at the 2-2-2-5 with F1 setting while MemTest doesn't? Well, after I finished the MemTest I tried to boot, and was shocked to find out that the computer tries to boot from the CD drive, although the BIOS setting said otherwise. I tried to change the BIOS setting, but no matter what I did, the computer still insisted on booting from a CD (even when I set the booting order to Floppy, HD, HD). I tried to clear the CMOS but was unable to! I disconnected the computer and a few hours later ran it again; it was now booting as usual, taking notice of BIOS settings. Weird, eh? Maybe running about 6 hours at 2.8v with F1 setting is too much for the hardware or something? I just wonder why MemTest didn't have any problem at this setting, while Windows and the computer itself did have!

I think that setting to 2-2-2-5 at 200Mhz with GAT set to Auto (and thus PAT disabled) allows working normally with Windows, but I'll have to check it further tonight. I'll also try to overclock the memory beyond 200MHz and see how far I go.

Regards,

Oren

Now that I think of it, shouldn't a PC3000 be 370DDR and not 333DDR as my BIOS says on POST? It says it's conforming to the DDR 333 specifications, or some similair message (I'm not at home right now, so can't check exactly).

Also CPU-Z reads the KHX3000 as PC2700... although I saw on another thread that this is some problem with CPU-Z.

Are both the BIOS and CPU-Z wrong?

yep