amd athlon64 2800 vs amd Mobile 2600

[ares350]

alright guys, I have a budget of ~1200$. decided to go with a 200$ cheaper vid card(9800pro vs 9800XT)

so... that means I can spend 200$ elsewhere.

I was spending 100$ on a DFI mobo and 100$ on the mobile2600.

but I am now looking at 64chips.

the 2800 runs at 175$, and the mobo is 150$. so thats a 125$ increase, all other things equal.

but I have a question... how overclockable are 64bit chips? if at all.

the mobile I was going to water cool and was expecting to get 26-2800mhz from. while the 64bit chip starts at 1.8mhz.

I dont mean to compare old vs 64bit apples to apples. but Im lost for how well they really compare, how much more(if any) performance will the 64 bit chip offer over the overclocked mobile?

and what kind of potential does the 64bit chip have?

am I better to get the 64bit now, or save 125$ and upgrade everything in 2 years again.

[Steven4563]

the athlon64 2800+ will still be faster than that mobile barton or id rather wait a few weeks and get a socket 939 mobo and a 64bit athlon :D

[Gautam]

939 won't be out for several months in mainstream form at the earliest, and won't give any tangible performance increase over 754 in anything but the most memory intensive tasks.

The Gigabyte K8N is only $97; dunno what motherboard you're planning on getting, but I would wait for the nForce3 250 based motherboards that are due out in a couple of weeks.

A 2.8GHz Barton roughly equates to a 2.2GHz A64. I'd also suggest getting a 3000+ instead of a 2800+. The 10x multiplier will be very helpful in overclocking. Be sure to get nice PC4000 memory.

[ares350]

so... I may be getting the wrong impression, but am I to take it that the 64chips and mobo that are out right now will be obsolete in a few month when the new chipset becomes mainstream?

to go farther, I could take this 150$(the nforce 150's are 150$, so 50$ plus the 75-100$ more expensive processor). and hold it, add 150-200 to it in a year or 2, and buy a whole new mobo and processor that will be at the new chipset and offer a noticable performance increase over the OC'ed mobile, rather than pay a premium for new technology that is already be phased out.

2.2ghz 64 is a 3200+chip as well, so unless I overclock the 3000 or spend more for the 3200, I wont beat the mobile overclocked.

also PC4000memory. :o heh. I planned on mushkin 2-2-2 PC3200ram which I thought was splurging for some added performance. 4000 adds more to the price in a whole nother area.

eh, maybe Im just going off base, but Im thinking saving the 200$ or whatever Id spend is money better spent in a year.

[Gautam]

All those suggestions are just for the optimal situation. The nForce3 250 is also nuance. It'll help your overclocks some because of the PCI lock. And like I mentioned, you can pick up a Gigabyte K8N for only $97. Komusa PC4200 is only $220 or so, a lot cheaper than the Mushkin Promo. If you buy an A64 now, all that will come in the future are minor tweaks that won't give any noticeable difference in perfomance. You could go with the board I mentioned with now, or you could wait a week or two for a 250. Either way, you'll be happy. And as for the mobile overclocking, nearly none hit 2.8GHz, but all 3000+'s mostly hit 2.3GHz....many hit 2.4, and a rare few hit 2.5. There is no point in buying an AXP, it's an obsolete platform. An A64 combo would cost you about $50 more configured properly, and give you a performance boost well worth it.

[Shade00]

Don't get PC4000. The latency is too high. You'll be fine with the Mushkin PC3200 2-2-2 stuff. It won't be able to get the same high FSBs, but running a divider with a tight latencies won't hurt you much at all.

[Gautam]

The Komusa A-Data is based on Hynix BT-D43 chips; can do 11-3-3-2 timings up to 260 or so.

Between async and 2-2-2 timings vs. 3-3-2 timings and sync, I'd lean far towards the latter doing better. But I'd love to see proof either way.

My only experience is with the nForce2's; they handled async abysmally. From what I've heard, the nForce3's aren't too much better. On Intels, the two above situations ended up, from what I know, just about identical for all practical purposes.

[Dukemurmur]

the 3200 won't give u high enough fsb. the pc4000 will let u but u want be able to run the timmings as tight but o well. I would go with Adata Pc4000 or Optima they are cheap and will work great for u they arn't the top of the line but hey we can't have it all right?? Also u can get certain 9800se and mod them to pros u have about a 50% chance that it will work if it dosent then u are left with a 9800se still. It is a softmod. It unlocks the other 4 piplines then u can oc from there. Also r u wc the A64 if u get it? if u are then u r pretty "much" garented 2.3 maybe 2.4 so that would be about like a 3.0 or higher barton. Also i forget what one it is but i think the 3000 only has 512 chache not 1mb like the 3200 and up so spend the extra 20 bucks and get the 3200 and then u are already at 2.0 or 2.2 i forget now but yeah.

[ares350]

and this and that.

20bucks here 20bucks there, not being offensive, but it seems to be adding up.

and all for a chipset that everyone agrees is going to die off, not that the new chipset is much better, but it is the future. making upgrades potentially impossible. not that Im saying the XP is upgradable, it is 100% already obsolete in the future. but better to spend 200$ on it than atleast 275 for a 100$ card thats not even nforce3 at all, let alone the nforce 3 250 some are suggesting waiting for.

Im sure the nforce 3 250 will be atleast 150 if not 200 when it first comes out. plus the 3200 64s are 270$. so right there your 170$ more than the xp chip. all so expensive, and Im still confused on what Im gaining.

its not upgradable assuming the new socket replaces it in a few months, its barely faster. what does it offer?

[cujo]

just go with the cheaper 2600 mobile and wc it. don't bother with a64 yet. it's really not worth it. you can upgrade to 939 in two years once the price drops. 64 bit os with working drivers is still a while away as well so makes having a 64bit chip even less worth it. i know the 64bit performs better in 32 bit apps anyway but the difference would be hardly noticable if all you do is gaming and you'll have a 9800pro anyway.

some other advice, if you want to save money more money, is find a 9800 non pro from sapphire. they oc just as well as a pro would and most can be bios flashed to pros anyway. my non pro was 150 bucks cheaper than a pro at the time. the bios flash is guaranteed to work on certain cards with certain types of ram so research what they are and make sure the non pro you get has that ram. when i bought mine, every single sapphire non pro has good samsung ram. i've bios flashed 3 diff cards for people all from sapphire and all with the same ram.

[Gautam]

Again, if you look hard enough to pinch the pennies, it doesn't have to cost that much. Since you seemed to have ignored the numbers I threw up previously, take a second look.

Mushkin Level II (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=140242&Category_Code=MushkinMemory) $315

vs.

Komusa PC400 (http://store.yahoo.com/komusa/1gbkit5pc50d.html) $230

I don't see the latter being "$20 more"...


----------------------------------------------------

DFI Infinity (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-136-137&depa=0) $98

vs.

Gigabye GA-K8N Pro (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-128-200&depa=0) $121

Not quite a $100 difference there...

Mobile Barton vs. 3000+ A64 is $119. Do all the math and you get the A64 combo costing $58 more. Without digressing into the future, you're guaranteed that the A64 will blow away the mobile Barton setup on identical cooling.

And as for the future, socket 939 most likely won't be affordable until early 2005. The only difference is a dual channel memory controller. You won't notice any difference in anything other than the most memory intensive tasks. Socket 754 will definitely not die for several years.

The choice is yours. One could argue that the $58 price difference isn't justifiable, others may say even a $580 price difference is. In all honesty, I don't think there's any way to go wrong with either of them. Maybe it's just that I've already had a 2.6GHz AXP setup, and personally want something new, who knows. :D

[Shade00]

Originally posted by Gautam
The Komusa A-Data is based on Hynix BT-D43 chips; can do 11-3-3-2 timings up to 260 or so.

Between async and 2-2-2 timings vs. 3-3-2 timings and sync, I'd lean far towards the latter doing better. But I'd love to see proof either way.

My only experience is with the nForce2's; they handled async abysmally. From what I've heard, the nForce3's aren't too much better. On Intels, the two above situations ended up, from what I know, just about identical for all practical purposes.

What kind of voltage would you have to run to make those things do 2-3-3-X? I've seen them run 3-4-4-8 plenty of times, but never at 2-3-3. I'm pretty skeptical about those chips doing anywhere close to 260 at those latencies with the somewhat limited vdimm of contemporary A64 boards.

The Athlon64 is a whole different ballgame when it comes to memory bandwidth. The on-chip memory controller has such low latency that using a divider doesn't really hurt it that much. If I had my A64 set up right now, I'd be happy to do tests at 1:1 and 6:5. nForce2 does do terribly with dividers, but you have to remember that the memory controller is in the Athlon64 chip.

[Gautam]

2.8-2.9v. It's nothing out of the ordinary for them; BT-D43 hates voltage. 250 at CL2 isn't out of the ordinary, either. At 3-4-4-8 timings, most do around 280MHz, plenty of them cross 290 or even 300.

BH-5/BH-6 is the past and so are ultra-tight latencies...fact that no one wants to face. Good, inexpensive solutions for the future do exist.

[Shade00]

There are certainly good options coming out. Like I said, though, I've never seen Hynix do those timings at that speed. They may well do it. I'll keep my eyes out for those chips on Kingston ValueRAM. That way I can do a direct comparison between 1:1 2-3-3-X at high FSB and 6:5 with low latencies.

[ares350]

Originally posted by Gautam
Again, if you look hard enough to pinch the pennies, it doesn't have to cost that much. Since you seemed to have ignored the numbers I threw up previously, take a second look.

Mushkin Level II (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=140242&Category_Code=MushkinMemory) $315

vs.

Komusa PC400 (http://store.yahoo.com/komusa/1gbkit5pc50d.html) $230

I don't see the latter being "$20 more"...


----------------------------------------------------

DFI Infinity (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-136-137&depa=0) $98

vs.

Gigabye GA-K8N Pro (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-128-200&depa=0) $121

Not quite a $100 difference there...

Mobile Barton vs. 3000+ A64 is $119. Do all the math and you get the A64 combo costing $58 more. Without digressing into the future, you're guaranteed that the A64 will blow away the mobile Barton setup on identical cooling.

And as for the future, socket 939 most likely won't be affordable until early 2005. The only difference is a dual channel memory controller. You won't notice any difference in anything other than the most memory intensive tasks. Socket 754 will definitely not die for several years.

The choice is yours. One could argue that the $58 price difference isn't justifiable, others may say even a $580 price difference is. In all honesty, I don't think there's any way to go wrong with either of them. Maybe it's just that I've already had a 2.6GHz AXP setup, and personally want something new, who knows. :D

well as I saw it athlon 2600 is 100$, but the 3000 64 is 212$ from new egg. maybe Im missing something. but thats 112$ difference there.

if it adds 20 or 50 for the mobo depends which one I get I guess.

but its still now 130-160$ more overall.

as for ram, the mushkin ram I was getting was only 253$, the 4000 of the same ram is 50$ more.

[CrashOv3r1De]

Go for the A64 it will smoke a P4C not even mentioning a mobile chip

this will be pretty good if you can afford it:
A64 3200+ about $250~280
Shuttle An50r ~$130
if you need ram get khx3200 bh-5

or if that setup is too expensive get the

a64 3000+
shuttle an50r

[ares350]

that first setup is way too expensive, 180-200$ more than the mobile setup, ignoring ram. 200$ is alot of cash on a 1000$ PC. will it be a 5th faster?

if I spend 200$ extra now, will it be better spent then if I spend another 200$ to upgrade in a year?

[Gautam]

The way I see it, if you save now and buy the mobile Barton setup, you will be very compelled to upgrade in the very near future, as the mobile Barton is already obsolete hardware.

The A64 setup on the other hand, will become dated in about a year, which is to be expected, as it happens to everything. But at the moment, it's cutting edge, the fastest thing out there. There won't be any reason to upgrade for quite a while, definitely a longer time than with the mobile Barton.

I'd expect that if you went the mobile Barton route, you'd actually end up spending a little more for an extra A64 upgrade in the middle. You'd probably end up with slightly better hardware than if you dove into the A64 right now, but not much better. In terms of practicality, the A64 is the best route to go IMHO. The $200 more will be well worth it, because the A64 will have a much much longer lifetime than an AXP setup. An upgrade to 939 would be unneccessary if you were to get a 754 to begn with.