View Full Version : Dangerden Maze II - not so great?
Hello all
I know this is a common question but I am going to ask at again anyway :-)
I just bought a Maze II cooling block for my 1200 T-Bird. Right now my system is running at 1400 GHz (140x10). The Vcore is 1.94V. I have a cooling tower that is keeping the water temperature at around 74 degrees. Ambient is around 78 degrees, so the tower is cooling well. I measured the flow rate through the system at about 80 gallons per hour. The motherboard is an MSI K7T-Turbo RAID.
I mounted the Maze II block carefully per the instructions, and used a thin layer of heat sink compound.
Now get this... at idle my CPU is at 50C and while running CPU Mathmark it jumps to 59C. This is about the same performance I was getting from my homemade water block.
Is any one else with the same setup getting the same temperatures? Based on comparative systems with Maze II blocks I expected it to be much cooler. The only thing I can think of is the flow rate is too slow. However if I raise the flow rate (take off the showerhead, etc) the temp stays the same.
Thanks all. I am new to this forum and it rocks!
:D
Either your block is not sitting flush on your CPU or the barbs are seated to deep in your block. With a cooling tower you should idle at about ambient and see a 15C to 17C increase in temps at full load.
Nope. Those temps seem right to me. I just got a maze 2 and after trying to reseat it about 5 times and double checking all the basics my temps are up about 10c than with my previous block which is a copper z3 block. I have 300gph pump and a dual 120mm fan radiator and a system that primes its self. My reasoning for the loss of performance in the Maze 2 is the poor quality of the copper. It is well lapped but i can not even see my hands in it. Its also felt not nearly as cold as my Z3 block which is made of some of the highest quality copper i have seen befor i even installed it. I am getting a new Z3 block amd i recomend that people try it out as all i see is recomendations of maze2 without testing a lot of other blocks. Check Ebay for my maze2 if decide not to kick feild goals with it. By the way. my water temps are 26c. My cpu temps at load with my Z3 block is 37c while my maze2 temps are 50c at load.
One thing i forgot to mention is that my reply is not intended to start a "which is better wars". I am simply pointing out something that has happened to a user has also happened to me. There could be a small chance that the newer blocks are of less quality or any other factor. One thing that i am sure of is that the Z3 block is made of the best copper ive seen simialr to that on my swiftech 462.
Even with a Cooling Cube my Maze 2 idles at 4C over ambient. Something is wrong here mEkbOy. I suspect the barbs may be too deep in your block.
Well. This could be a host of things. Remember that they did just change to that new style of blocks. As far as the barbs go im not sure. I have seen a few others with the same heat probs lately. My main reasoning so far is the poor quality of the copper.
Clearly there's something screwy with your setup(s), and it ain't the quality of the copper. I agree with the previous replies: either the block isn't seated correctly, you haven't tightened the clamp enough, or the barbs are too deep in the block.
You may have missed the top saying that i have seated a swiftech 462 befor so i know how to do it properly. I have tried reseating it 5 times without a change in temps.
Im using the new Maze2 waterblock from DD, and my temps are great. I have 2, 131 cfm fans on my radiator. Look at my sig for temps.
Matt
I have a tbird 1.2gig with a DangerDen Maze2, an RIO 180 and the danger den cube radiator and I am idling now at a cool 29.2 C, max out at around 42. This is with a panaflow L1 120mm fan, nothing else.
Just my 2 cents,
Kibler
Thanks for the input. I am going to recheck the seating one more time, then get in touch with Dangerden to see what they think. Based on some other temp listings here with similar processor settings I think there may be something wrong with the installation, or my mobo temp probe is wrong.
You did put the block on the right way round didnt you? It says on their site you get max performance if its the right way round...I assume they mean so the input line is right above the cpu core. You would want your water to go in over the core and out on the side......I would think :-)
Kibler
Kibler, good question. Yes I positioned the inlet over the cpu and that is the inlet for the flow. No response from Dangerden yet. I am out of town so I will have to take a look at reseating it this weekend. I'll post more info afterwards.
FerrariF50
08-08-01, 09:22 PM
What are barbs?
Originally posted by Colin
Even with a Cooling Cube my Maze 2 idles at 4C over ambient. Something is wrong here mEkbOy. I suspect the barbs may be too deep in your block.
Barbs are the brass fittings that the hoses attach to.
FerrariF50
08-08-01, 09:34 PM
ok!
Update:
After some back and forth with the helpful folks at Dangerden I made some changes to my heatsink install. First, I removed the 3/8" hose and replaced it with 1/2" hose throughout. Second of all I tightened down the cooling block retainer screws even tighter than before. In fact, they are almost fully compressed.
AS a result of this the CPU temp has dropped to 42 degC with the CPU running at 1.5 GHz and a core voltage of 2.0 V. Obviously this is much better than before.
Even with the screws cranked down all of the way I am still noticing some very slight movement in the block if I try to rotate it or rock it. I am guessing this is partially due to the compressible pads on the four corners of the CPU. Anyone ever try removing them for a DD II installation?
I don't think it would be the pads, since they do compress. And if it is the pads, removing them would make it rock even more (and also chip the sides of the chip)
Umm......are you taking those temps with your in-socket thermisistor (sp?)? If so dont talk negativly about DD (im a big fan ;) because those are horribly inaccurate and even worse with watercooling as there is little if any air moving across the socket!
Sorry, did not mean to imply that the Dangerden product is the problem. Actually they deserve a thumbs up. Their tech support has been quite responsive via e-mail.
Yes I am using the mobo temp probe. It is probably off a bit as you say.
I use the DD Maze1 wb an never seen a reason to move to the Maze2. Amibient 26C, idle 29C, full load 37C running prime 95. I run a IWill KK266R with a 1.4 at 1695, heater core, an mag drive 2 (250gal) pump. I changed the 3/8" barbs to 1/2".
Yea I was worried about my cooling system also untill i got a real temp probe and i found out the MB sensor on my A7V133 was always atleast 12C higher than the processor really was. It was also much slower at updating the speed. If you can try and bend your thermisistor up so it touches the processor and put a tad of thermal grease on it so it will give you a somewhat more accurate backside temp :)
I have seen this many times with testing waterblocks.
1. Pressure has a lot to do with performance. I don't mean you should crunch the core or tighten and break the socket's lugs, but all things being equal, it will help.
2. The in-socket thermistor may not give you an accurate reading, not only because it is measuring the back of the CPU, but also because there is no airflow over the socket or nearby components, such as capacitors.
The lack of airflow means these components get hotter and more heat flows to the back of the CPU and thermistor, giving you a higher reading. Try aiming an 80 mm fan at the socket and see what happens.
3. The "acid test" is performance; can you overclock higher now than before?
After doing some reading and testing with the 2 blocks that i have i have came to the conclusion that block design is not nearly im portant as the mounting method. In order to get the most out of a waterblock you need extreme amounts of pressure applied to the center of the block. Thats why my Z3 block with the center pushdown performed better than my Mzae2. Not the disgn. The maze uses those crappy nylon fittings. I am going to get some steel fittings like the ones that come with swiftech blocks. My very knowlegdable freind has done this and got a 10c drop. I think that should be considered by all and will hope that it convinces makers to deisgn an improved hold down method.
I want to order a maze2 from them and I have to pay a lot of tax (international shipping + VAT +customs) and these information were just in time! However, it seems these are mounting issues and I think I'll order it.
Questions though,
hoses aren't premounted?
What to use to make sure that hoses are totally leak-free, loctite?
3/8" vs 1/2" hoses do really change something?
The hose barbs are premounted, the hose barb size should match whatever size tubing your radiator takes and DangerDen epoxies (i think i read that somewhere) all there blocks so the barbs will not leak. IMO the quality is incredible - perfectly flat and well built.
Hope this helps, if you want you can PM me for more info.
Danger Den has an excellent reputation from what I hear =)
thank you.
Originally posted by toutin
Danger Den has an excellent reputation from what I hear =)
thank you.
Here's my first tech support contact with DD. I e-mailed them this morning at 1:15 a.m. and received a reply at 1:45 a.m.!! That's what I call GOOD!
What I learned: they said that with the new Maze2 it doesn't matter which way you mount the block.
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