Athlon64 3200+ DTR Initial Results

[Gautam]

Looking through the AMD sections on several forums, we see hundreds of threads daily regarding mobile Bartons, 1700+/1800+ DLT3C's, DFI Lanparties, Abit NF7's; anything and everything to do with the Athlon XP. However, it seems that information and even interest on AMD's latest and greatest, the Athlon74, is completely nonexistant. When I was planning my system, just about everyone's sentiment was to wait, and buy a mobile Barton in the meantime. What seems to be the public opinion is that A64's are overpriced, difficult to overclock, and have flaky hardware and software support at best. Hopefully I can put an end to these myths.

The processor I picked was the 3200+ DTR (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-443&depa=0), as, according to the description at Newegg, it would be a CG revision, unlike the desktop versions, which to date appear to all be of C0. A newer stepping generally means more overclockability, and considering that this is the same revision as the 2.4GHz FX-53's, one would think it should fare pretty well. DTR stands for Desktop Replacement. It is not a true mobile processor. Furthermore, it is not unlocked beyond a 10x multiplier, and no Athlon64, not even a true mobile, is. The only real difference other than the revision is that the DTR lacks a heatspreader, which supposedly helps temps by a couple of degrees.

The motherboard I chose is the Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro (http://www.giga-byte.com/MotherBoard/Products/Products_GA-K8N%20Pro.htm), which uses the nVidia nForce3 150 chipset. Arguably, the most popular board choice is the Shuttle AN50-R, however, I opted against this for the reason that it seemed to be responsible for plenty of A64 deaths, even without excessive vcore or vdimm. Users that had it reported it to be difficult to deal with, and that it required many BIOS swaps, etc. Before I invoke the wrath of Maxvla, I'll say that for every failure of this board there seems to be a sucess story. However, Shuttle was simply a brand I didn't trust. My top two choices for motherboards are always Abit and Asus, but unfortunately, they do not have any motherboards out based on the nForce3 chipset, each utilizing the VIA K8T800 chipset, which lacks an AGP, which is crucial for my Radeon 9800. The only solid brand(IMHO) that had a board based on the nForce3 250 was Gigabyte, and the price, at $120, and loaded to the brim with goodies, was right.

I used the Thermalright SLK948U heatsink, as watercooling was beginning to become too LAN-unfriendly for me. The heatpipe-equipped SP-98 is around the corner, supposedly, but with the ridiculously high pricetag generally placed on the SP line, I most likely would have opted against it, even had it been out at the time. The heatpipe does not make a significant difference in cooling ability, considering the design of Thermalright's heatsinks. The processor, being a DTR, lacks a heatspreader, thus requires the heatsink to be mounted slightly lower than a desktop. I added washers while mounting the heatsink as a precaution, but I think that this was unnecessary with the nature of the SLK948's mounting mechanism.

The only two PCI devices that I am running are a Promise FastTrack S150 TX2Plus Serial ATA controller, and a Soundblaster Audigy2. In order to avoid hard drive corruption that results from high PCI buses, a controller card supporting 66MHz PCI buses is required. This card fits the bill perfectly, and allows very aggressive overclocking without issue. The Soundblaster also can handle PCI buses in excess of 50MHz.

Unfortunately, I'm still using my old PC3200 memory, which tops out at about 228MHz.

So, how does all of this hardware actually do?

After messing around with it a bit:

http://home.comcast.net/~gautamb/blah/2508.JPG

Core voltage at 1.7v in BIOS, reported to be 1.74.

The memory bus is running asyncronously to the HTT bus, at only 210MHz. I'm keeping it conservative for now, but I'll be getting memory that should be able to handle much higher speeds this week. So far, it seems 100% stable. The only thing that I can not attest to ATM is Prime95; I'll do a thorough run in a few hours. However, it's handled several hours of benchmarking, gaming, etc, at this speed.

http://home.comcast.net/~gautamb/blah/arith.JPG

Effortlessly trounces all the reference results, even though Sandra really isn't its forte.

3D performance is where it really shines. So far, I've gotten 22796 3DMarks (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7743378) in 3DMark2001SE. The asyncronous memory is really holding it back. Should be able to do over 1000 marks higher 1:1. With everything at stock(9800 Pro stock speeds) it got quite a respectable 19506. At stock speeds, it outdid my T-Bred at 2.6GHz by close to 1000 points.

I know, not too far from what you've expected. After all, we've all seen the benchies. We all know that it tops most processors in synthetic performance, but what does this mean in reality? I can honestly say that it was worth every last penny. If the A64 looks great on paper, it feels spectacular in real-world performance. Everything runs smoother than ever; games look breathtakingly quicker. And this is at stock speeds. I've got a couple of friends who upgraded from P4C's to A64's. When they said that it loaded things quicker, and "felt" faster, I thought they were just full of it. However, not even the benchmarks can show how much nicer it really feels. An AthlonXP, at just about any speed, cannot touch an A64. You'd need to be at about 3.1GHz with a mobile Barton to compete with a 2.5GHz in synthetic benchmarks, and I can guarantee that even at those speeds, it will still lack the smoothness of an A64.

The fact of the matter is, you can take a retail A64, load it with generic CAS2.5 memory, run it at stock, and still have it trounce even aggressively overclocked mobile Bartons, and even P4C's in synthetic performance, and by even more in real-world performance. The revisions due in the future (dual-channel support, PCI locks, etc.) most likely will make a very small difference. IMHO, this is not the right time to invest in an AthlonXP or Pentium4 setup. The A64 is in a totally different league. It doesn't even need the slightest bit of overclocking for its performance level to be realized. Futhermore, as an overclocking processor, the A64 DTR is outstanding. My 1700+ DLT3C required 1.95v on watercooling to accomplish 2.5GHz. This processor effortlessly makes it that far on aircooling with only 1.75v.

Some notes:
The process to get this far was not as smooth as one would have wished. For some reason, the processor defaults at 1.1v, but still at 2 GHz. I spent close to two hours trying to find out why it couldn't boot, swapping HD's, etc, only to find that it was running at such a low voltage. Bumped it up to 1.5v, and it was all good.

As I began to overclock, I noticed that Sandra and just about everything non-3D ran perfectly. However, running 3DMark or a game would cause the system to hang in 10 secs even with a modest overclock. I tried running at 250x4, and the same happened. What was causing this was that Clockgen was automatically raising the AGP bus as I changed the HT bus. Frankly, I was impatient and reckless, so I failed to notice this for a while, which also wasted about an hour. As soon as I took note of this, though, overclocking was as smooth as butter.

Is the A64 worth it at this time? Pass your own judgement. :D

[d]g[ts]

First off Nice post Guatam Glad to see your results.And I might add your selection of hardware was very wise. The giga K8N series is a great choice for this platform, and the raid card perfect for the OC. As for your OC 2500 on air is great. Lots of the regular A64 3200+ top out between 2300-2400 on air so this is nice to see.

Nice Work :thup:

[Gautam]

Hey, d]g[ts, thanks a ton for your help, bud. Couldn't have made it this far without ya. :clap:

[devilscow22]

"The only two PCI devices that I am running are a Promise FastTrack S150 TX2Plus Serial ATA controller, and a Soundblaster Audigy2. In order to avoid hard drive corruption that results from high PCI buses, a controller card supporting 66MHz PCI buses is required. This card fits the bill perfectly, and allows very aggressive overclocking without issue. The Soundblaster also can handle PCI buses in excess of 50MHz."

could you give me a link to that controller card? i am going to building a A64 soon and i think i might be getting alot of the same components as you, thanks

[Sentential]

<Note to self>

....Buy Mobile FX (Socket 939):drool:
___________________________________

And to think that 754 is gonna be a "Low-end" platform:eek:

I cant wait till 939..... 939 with pwnz teh Int3L j00z:cool:

I cant even begin to imagine how well those suckers will OC!

[hitechjb1]

Congrats and nice review.

It is nice to have people like you to voice different opinions and have the idea and courage to try out new hardwares and combinations, ..., especially they may not be the main consensus at a given time, ....

Experimenting new ideas and things are very important and they add to our knowledges, ....

Best.


BTW, what are the cache and memory bandwidth numbers (e.g. from Sandra), ....

[Gautam]

Originally posted by devilscow22
could you give me a link to that controller card? i am going to building a A64 soon and i think i might be getting alot of the same components as you, thanks

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=16-102-022&depa=1

It's got two serial ATA channels and one parallel ATA channel, and supports striping and mirroring. A very nice price for what you get.

Originally posted by Sentential
<Note to self>

....Buy Mobile FX (Socket 939):drool:
___________________________________

And to think that 754 is gonna be a "Low-end" platform:eek:

I cant wait till 939..... 939 with pwnz teh Int3L j00z:cool:

I cant even begin to imagine how well those suckers will OC!

IMHO, there won't be a considerable difference in performance between 754 and 939. If anything, I'd venture that 939 would actually turn out a little worse because of the lack of cache(except in the FX's of course). 940 is a loose indication of this. The memory bandwidth doesn't have much of an effect in general everyday performance.

Originally posted by hitechjb1
Congrats and nice review.

It is nice to have people like you to voice different opinions and have the idea and courage to try out new hardwares and combinations, ..., especially they may not be the main consensus at a given time, ....

Experimenting new ideas and things are very important and they add to our knowledges, ....

Best.


BTW, what are the cache and memory bandwidth numbers (e.g. from Sandra), ....
Thank you. Feels great to hear that coming from you. :)

The memory bandwidth results in Sandra aren't too great. I'll put up a screenshot in a few minutes, but at those speeds, it got 2960 MB/sec. Rather disappointing considering the 500MHz effective data rate of the HT bus, and the 420MHz rate of the memory bus. Just 88% efficiency. I'll do some more tweaking and see how it goes. But as I said before, even though the synthetic numbers may not look too nice, its real-world performance is excellent. The extremely low latency due to the on-die memory controller offsets the low bandwidth very well.

[TC]

Great review - now I know what to play with next ;) Odd that the memory scores are so low though. I was getting 6300+ with my FX51 on the Asus. Well this is not dual channel though correct?

[hitechjb1]

I think we should not on one hand based solely on benchmark numbers, and on the other hand focus the discussion on subjective terms like smooth feeling, ....

The tradeoff and equivalence of cache latency, cache size and memory bandwidth have been studied to great extent, .... Their average and statistical relationship and impact on performance have been welll analyzed, ....

- Cache latency is the time or number of cycles to wait for getting the first data from the cache after a read command is issued.

- Cache size, the size of cache in bytes (for data/instruction), relates the probability (hit ratio) that data can be found in a cache. The larger the cache, the higher the chance to find the data in the cache. If data is not in L2 (cache miss), then data has to be looked for in the next stage cache or main memory (aka L3). Memory can be treated as the next level cache (L3) for L2.

- Memory latency is the time or number of cycles (many more cycles compared to L2 latency) to wait for getting first data from the main memory after a read command is issued.

- Memory bandwidth is the number of bits per sec (usually in MB/s) transfer to/from the memory after a transfer has started (i.e. after the latency).

Studies have shown that twice the size of L2 would translate into about 5% of average system performance, over a wide range of prorgrams (some benefited more and some less). This conurs with what we have been talking about the XP w/ 256KB L2 and the 512KB L2 Barton.

939 has twice the max memory bandwidth of a 754 due to the 128-bit memory bus in 939. This is in additon to the dual channel memory controller in 939. For applications with well structured, large data such as large matrices in scientific computations, video decoding, image processing, ..., these applications would be benefited directly from the 128-bit memory bus of 939 (vs the 64-bit of 754), ....


Studies have also shown that there is equivalence between cache size and cache latency, i.e. using larger memory/cache to tradeoff memory/cache with larger latency (not relevant here).

[devilscow22]

ok one last question about those controlers, i have one 80 gig HD and one 40 gig HD, i do not have then in a raid aray is there a cheaper card that would prevent the data curruption but support my two HHDs.

sorry my knowledge of harddrives is pretty much limited to knowing they store data, thanks

if i got 256x2 of muskins 222 special would i be able to run it on the K8N?

[Gautam]

Great review - now I know what to play with next Odd that the memory scores are so low though. I was getting 6300+ with my FX51 on the Asus. Well this is not dual channel though correct?
Correct, the lack of a dual channel memory controller holds the S754-based A64's in memory bandwidth. However, my scores are looking low even for single channel.

I think we should not on one hand based solely on benchmark numbers, and on the other hand focus the discussion on subjective terms like smooth feeling, ....
Yep, although both deserve consideration.

939 has at least twice the memory bandwidth of a 754 due to the 128-bit memory bus in 939. This is in additon to the dual channel memory controller in 939. For applications with well structured, large data such as large matrices in scientific computations, video decoding, ..., these applications would be benefited directly from the 128-bit memory bus of 939 (vs the 64-bit of 754), ....
I concur. If you require a system to perform video editing or very math intensive tasks, the 939 would probably be a better bet for you. However, for most tasks, the 754 fits the bill just fine.

ok one last question about those controlers, i have one 80 gig HD and one 40 gig HD, i do not have then in a raid aray is there a cheaper card that would prevent the data curruption but support my two HHDs.

The Ultra100 TX2 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=16-102-002&depa=1) (Or 133 if you have ATA133 drives) is cheaper, but hardly more economical. I'd say the extra $30 for the sake of upgradeability is well worth it, as a RAID 0 array helps a lot in making things feel slick, and cuts loading times in half.

Mushkin 222 should work great with the K8N. You'd have to run it asyncronously, but the tight timings are what the memory controller seems to love.

[felinusz]

Incredible work Guatam!

This is really promising, and really gives us something to look forward to, as I'm sure most of us have Athlon 64 plans for the future (however far off it may be for some of us), of some sort or another ;) ;)

Which fan are you using with the 948-U, out of curiosity? I'm also wondering about the overvolting options that Gigabyte board has at stock, and whether you're overvolting the chipset, or running it totally stock. 250 X 10 is an incredible overclock, even moreso with the amount of Vcore you're using, and the with the fact that you're using air.

As for S939 Sentential, I highly doubt the pricing will ever be low enough to justify it's use in a proper rig; as illustrated above a S754 system thrashes pretty hard, and looks to be a lot of fun to play with, given the apparant abundance of headroom over stock with the right hardware.

Posted by Guatam

At stock speeds, it outdid my T-Bred at 2.6GHz by close to 1000 points.

I have a similar 9800 Pro / 2600 MHz Thoroughbred setup running right now, awaiting another Mobile Barton to try out; your 3DMark score is clearing my machine fully overclocked by a signifigant amount as well!

[Gautam]

This is really promising, and really gives us something to look forward to, as I'm sure most of us have Athlon 64 plans for the future (however far off it may be for some of us), of some sort or another

Thanks, dude. Your cooling setup should complement an A64 wonderfully. ;)

Which fan are you using with the 948-U, out of curiosity? I'm also wondering about the overvolting options that Gigabyte board has at stock, and whether you're overvolting the chipset, or running it totally stock. 250 X 10 is an incredible overclock, even moreso with the amount of Vcore you're using, and the with the fact that you're using air.
I'm using a 10 yr+ Innovative fan. Couldn't find any specs of it online. It seems to put out somewhere between 30-40 CFM, definitely nothing spectacular. The mobo claims I'm at 37 load, but I think it's just underreporting ridiculously. I'll be getting a Torin centrifugal blower on Tuesday, which is comparable to a Tornado. It should help some. I'm not even sure if I'm maxed out as it is.

The Gigabyte manual claims that up to 1.85v is selectable, however, in reality it only offers 1.7v, and overvolts by about .05v. I didn't overvolt the HT voltage at all for this. I've heard that it isn't too beneficial, anyways. I did lower the HT from 3x to 2.5x. The stock HT speed is 3x200=600MHz, and I have it at 2.5x250 for 625MHz. From what I've seen, it can't go much further, but I'll try raising the voltage and see if it can get further. If you keep the HT at around 600MHz, there usually isn't any need to increase voltage.

[TC]

Do you think you've pushed it to the end of its ability yet? I was hoping for a little more considering this is a new stepping. I was getting 2450 out of my old FX51 which was one of the early production runs last year. It hit 2900 with a vapochill and 2600 on ice water. I hope this new stepping can muster more than 50MHz higher.

[Gautam]

No, not sure at all. 250x10 was just a nice round number. :D

I haven't even come close to pushing it to its limits yet. Bear in mind that I'm using a Gateway-pull fan from the early 90's on it, nothing more. :D

Although those FX51 results are extremely high. 2.9GHz is most certainly not normal. 2.8 on modded Prometeias seem more the norm, and 2.6-2.7 for Vapo PE's, from what I've seen. Sounds like you had a gem for its time, but things only seem to be getting better.

[I.M.O.G.]

Very nice results Gautum, I'm glad to see you are happy with your move. :)

I can only hope that I will be as satisfied when it comes time for me to go to 939.

[sappo]

Originally posted by Gautam
The memory bus is running asyncronously to the HTT bus, at only 210MHz.

Why is this? Async memory is never a good thing if you can help it, right?

I've noticed your bus speed is 250mhz. Shouldn't it be 800mhz? Edit: or is it 600mhz with an nforce3-150?

With an out of spec fsb, are you having problems with onboard stuff? sound, lan, etc..

Sheesh, all this new athlon64 stuff is confusing. I feel like I'm having to learn computers all over again.

[sappo]

One more thing, does an expensive HSF seem to give the chip a boost in overclocking?

While it sounds like a dumb question, these chips run so cool that even the retail HSF is able to cool an overclocked a64 to well under 50C.

[TC]

Originally posted by sappo
One more thing, does an expensive HSF seem to give the chip a boost in overclocking?

While it sounds like a dumb question, these chips run so cool that even the retail HSF is able to cool an overclocked a64 to well under 50C. I'd be really careful with a retail hsf. I used one briefly with my FX51 and it was hitting 70C+ very quickly. In fact I'd put it up there with the prescott I had when it comes to using a retail hsf. It was more like 55C under water cooling.

[I.M.O.G.]

Originally posted by sappo


Why is this? Async memory is never a good thing if you can help it, right?

I've noticed your bus speed is 250mhz. Shouldn't it be 800mhz? Edit: or is it 600mhz with an nforce3-150?

With an out of spec fsb, are you having problems with onboard stuff? sound, lan, etc..

Sheesh, all this new athlon64 stuff is confusing. I feel like I'm having to learn computers all over again.

Originally posted by Gautum
Unfortunately, I'm still using my old PC3200 memory, which tops out at about 228MHz.

He hasn't gotten new RAM.

His effective HT bus speed is multiplied by 3 by default to make 600, and he changed the setting to 2.5 and increased the bus to 250.

He's using a PCI soundcard that he said tolerates the higher PCI speed fine and I don't think he's using any other onboard stuff - that was the point of using the PCI cards he chose - it was a workaround for having no PCI locks. Maybe there are some onboard things hes using, but I didn't think there were.

[devilscow22]

sorry but this is kinda offtopic but is there any reson newegg dosent have an eta for the DTR 3200+? i kinda wanted to order my new parts wed or thursy(my b-day is tues so ill have enough $$ for my purchase)

[trueplaya4ever8]

hmm very nice gautam, i am debating on the chip i am gonna get.. either the 3200+ dtr or the 3400+ dtr...
i am prolly going to get the gigabyte board, and you found me the perfect pci raid controller ;)

*editted gautams name*

[TC]

Damn if Newegg wasn't the only place carrying them that I can see. I hope they get some more.

[9mmCensor]

Athlon74... woah did i miss something? ;/

[c627627]

That was just his typo. Congratulations Gautam, was waiting & looking forward to this thread since you placed the order btw and found it by accident just now (no PM from u :-/)

When you reach the limits of the system, post what you think its Atlon XP (at 200 FSB) equivalent would be please.

[Gautam]

The 3400+ DTR pictured at newegg is a C0 revision, not a CG, and the people that got them reported the same.

I'd be really careful with a retail hsf. I used one briefly with my FX51 and it was hitting 70C+ very quickly. In fact I'd put it up there with the prescott I had when it comes to using a retail hsf. It was more like 55C under water cooling.

According to the mobo, it runs at about the same temperature as my AXP did; 37°C at a full load, but you really can't trust it. I most certainly would not put it up there with the Prescott. It's maximum thermal dissipation is 81.9 W; just about identical to an AXP 3200+. The problem is that all motherboard sensors report differently. Some use on-die thermistors, some in-socket, some in-socket+ 20°C, etc. I don't put much faith into temps at all. Some people have had some success with the retail HSF, as with AXP's, it'll be worth your while to get an aftermarket cooling solution.

With an out of spec fsb, are you having problems with onboard stuff? sound, lan, etc..

The only onboard device I'm using ATM is LAN, and it's been working silky smooth.

[deathstar13]

very nice work!
ive once again sold my systems and in the works of building another (4th) dream system.
i dont know if i can hold out for 939 myself even tho it supposedly should be out soon.
only time will tell what i end up with (p4E,754,939) but this thread does give me options if i cant wait for 939 parts.

the nf3 250 with agp/pci locks soon to be out would be the only way id head this way.
it also scares me and been my reluctance to just jump right in with 754 due to mobos being shakey.if asus,abit or epox cant get it correct it scares me trying other brands.

$200-$300 CPUS are the highest id pay price wise.
but what you say in the thread is quikly turning my thoughts away from a p4e rig.

[I.M.O.G.]

If your waiting for <$300 for a 939 CPU you may be waiting a few more months after 939's are out in the wild in a couple months.

[deathstar13]

Originally posted by IMOG
If your waiting for <$300 for a 939 CPU you may be waiting a few more months after 939's are out in the wild in a couple months. i havent had much online time for research yet or found speeds and prices yet.

also avoiding thread jacking by asking here.
but i guess it might be related enough if ya throw in the info,if Gautam doesnt mind.

i wanted to steer clear of 754 due to single mem controller and lack of solid mobo choices.
but in spite of this it is still coming out on top performance wise in my mind.

also has anyone seen 64 bit os results on these? performance wise?

[c627627]

Originally posted by deathstar13
also avoiding thread jacking by asking here.
but i guess it might be related enough
if ya throw in the info,
if Gautam doesnt mind.

You asking IMOG to throw in the 939 info? He can do that: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=284823

[TC]

Originally posted by Gautam

According to the mobo, it runs at about the same temperature as my AXP did; 37°C at a full load, but you really can't trust it. I most certainly would not put it up there with the Prescott. It's maximum thermal dissipation is 81.9 W; just about identical to an AXP 3200+. The problem is that all motherboard sensors report differently. Some use on-die thermistors, some in-socket, some in-socket+ 20°C, etc. I don't put much faith into temps at all. Some people have had some success with the retail HSF, as with AXP's, it'll be worth your while to get an aftermarket cooling solution.
I didn't trust the onboard sensor. The temps I recorded were made with a thermal diode attached to the base of the heatsink. The board always reported about 7-10C below the actual temp of the heatsink. I was shocked to see the heatsink get hot enough to burn.

[deathstar13]

Originally posted by c627627


You asking IMOG to throw in the 939 info? He can do that: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=284823 ty for the link!
ill be reading it very closely.

but i do see myself buying 754 in 6 weeks tho,then upgrade to 939 in 3 months.
such fast upgrades dont scare me $$$ wise as i make up most losses by reselling the parts.

at least i know a p4e is out.

glad to see many folks still burning as5 while i was away.
dont laugh, but im gonna be on a celery 333 for 2 weeks.
kinda feels odd after all my older net smokers!

[c627627]

Note that Gautam's system went out so he couldn't wait and found a workaround for the PCI lock which will be available on the upcoming nForce3 250 (not 150) chipset as well as the VIA K8T800 Pro (not K8T800) which is also on the way.

[deathstar13]

Originally posted by c627627
Note that Gautam's system went out so he couldn't wait and found a workaround for the PCI lock which will be present on the upcoming nForce3 250 (not 150) chipset as well as the VIA K8T800 Pro (not K8T800) which is also on the way. well he went the route i would also,basically im in the same boat.

im still reading all the info in the link on imogs post.alot of perfect info in it.
im not so worried about these mobos being on the market by the time i buy.upgrading to a 250/800pro is no biggy to me.loose a little money but when you need parts now you have to buy whats on the market,and hope to get a bit back selling the replaced parts.

i shouldnt have no pci cards to use.and i think the sata raid is usually SB controlled?agp lock is needed tho.but wont stop me from buying.

any info on 64bit win OS speeds?expected release?

btw what is the best ocing 754 mobo?basically i want a nf7-s that does 754 chips if you get my drift.sata raid on the SB is my only requirment besides the oc requirments mentioned above.

[c627627]

We should stop thread jacking but the info you ask is already posted above:

1. If you can't wait for new mobos, do what Gautam did and read post#1.

2. If you can wait a month or so, get PCI locked VIA K8T800 Pro (not K8T800) or nForce3 250 (not 150) chipset mobos.

3. 64 bit Windows Beta is available now (I think for free for anyone who asks, but there's limited 64 drivers availability). Final release is being pushed back all the time... look for it toward the end of 2004 if then. But this is irrelevant as 2.2 GHz Athlon 64 is better than 2.8 GHz Athlon XP on current operating systems.

[JDizzle]

Nice results Gautam, makes me want to sell all my stuff and go 754 especially since I just had to RMA my DFI:mad:. But then I remember I'm a poor highschool student that works at Walgreens:( :( :(

[Gautam]

When you reach the limits of the system, post what you think its Atlon XP (at 200 FSB) equivalent would be please.


At the speeds I'm at currently, an AXP with a 200MHz fsb would need about 3.3-3.4GHz to match up. With the higher(250MHz+) fsb's that the DFI boards are pulling off these days, 3.0-3.1 can match a 2.5GHz in synthetic performance.

Nice results Gautam, makes me want to sell all my stuff and go 754 especially since I just had to RMA my DFI. But then I remember I'm a poor highschool student that works at Walgreens
JDizzle, I hear that. I'm a poor HS student too. I've got quite a debt to work off now... :( But I've been saving up for this for a while, luckily, so the death of my old system wasn't a total disaster. :D

3. 64 bit Windows Beta is available now (I think for free for anyone who asks, but there's limited 64 drivers availability). Final release is being pushed back all the time... look for it toward the end of 2004 if then.

Think I'll give it a shot, but as you said, the A64 does so well in 32bit apps as it is, performance is no issue. And very few apps are actually available in 64-bit version.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some other notes:

I ordered Hynix BT-D43 based memory, and the store messed up my order and gave me Samsung CAS 3... doesn't get anywhere, especially considering that I'm running 2x512, which the A64 hates ATM. Upon further inspection, I've noticed that I haven't seen anyone pull off more than 220MHz regardless of memory type using a gig. I knew the chances of this were high initially, but I figured the Hynix would scale well. But I've hit a problem of sorts. The board seems to be unable to change the stock CAS latency. My old stick will only POST when set to CAS 2.0, and this Samsung stick only at CAS 3.0, even though I know others have gone pretty far with it at CAS 2.5, and even 2.0. I've decided to return this, and opt for Kingston HyperX 3000. It'll be based on Winbond CH5, most likely, not the legendary BH5, although I don't see this as a big issue. Effectively the only difference will lie in the tRCD; not enough to warrant the price.

So, as far as memory choices go for the A64, I'd suggest picking out the same sort of memory that you would for an AXP. Plan on reaching below 230MHz, but try to make it with relatively low latencies, if you're going for 1 GB. For 2x256, and 1x256 configurations, the controller seems a lot more forgiving, and allows memory to run up into the 300MHz range, so if you're planning on this, PC4000+ would be a fine choice. However, anything less than a gig just won't cut it for me. Running memory asyncronously isn't too large of an issue with the A64's.

Also, the BIOS seems utterly unable to overclock. Doesn't even allow it by 1 MHz. Seems that this and CAS problem are unique to me, so there's a good chance it has something to do with the fact that I've got a CG stepping.

[AMD-Me]

Hopefully ill be getting a nice Prommy mach II and one of these in the near future. I hope my tax return is good :D

[deathstar13]

i too would only use 1 gig.
so asynch isnt to bad of trade off? even a 275fsb over a 220fsb isnt much noticable?
by noticable i mean memory bandwith benches?
i do remember the HT having something to do with this?i need to read up about what this does.and i think i read you lowered your HT to run asysnch?
if so how does it affect 3dmark?

have you seen 1gb ram do over 230 on any 754 mobo?

also is the sata built into the south bridge on your mobo?if so is it affected by pci speeds?i dont think so but best to ask.

imay have a few other questions if you dont mind?

[JDizzle]

Go look in the memory section max had his komusa at 300FSB 1:1.

Edit: Who needs BH-5?















I do.

[Gautam]

so asynch isnt to bad of trade off? even a 275fsb over a 220fsb isnt much noticable?
by noticable i mean memory bandwith benches?
Async with low latencies vs. sync with higher latencies usually do just about the same in everything aside from Sandra. Sandra numbers from each are disappointing though, even though it shines in everything else.

i do remember the HT having something to do with this?i need to read up about what this does.and i think i read you lowered your HT to run asysnch?
if so how does it affect 3dmark?
My HT actually got a small boost, from 3x200=600 to 2.5x250=625. Between the K8T800 and nForce3, 800MHz and 600MHz respectively, there seems to be a couple hundred points difference. Nothing incredibly significant. I found about the same between 500 and 600. That 3DMark run was awful; I'll give it another go tomorrow, and try to compare some HT speeds, etc.

have you seen 1gb ram do over 230 on any 754 mobo?

No. :(

also is the sata built into the south bridge on your mobo?if so is it affected by pci speeds?i dont think so but best to ask.

Yes and yes. Onboard SATA is a big no-no if you plan to overclock far.

[Cyrix_2k]

Glad to see see you got your A64 up and running! :D

Would you still happen to have your water-cooling equipment to try out on the A64? Maybe 2.7-2.8ghz would be possible?

As for me, I'm going to atleast wait until summer for an A64. I really want to hit ~3ghz, have dual channel memmory, and a PCI/AGP lock. But performance on Single channel, even Async and in absence of PCI/AGP lock is certainly impressive. My current setup can only run 10,000 '01SE 3DMarks :( Hopefuilly that number will go up with the 9800 Pro I should be recieving shortly.

W0W! That A64 sure is nice! :D :drool:

[I.M.O.G.]

Guatam, I am not so sure on a couple of the points you have been pronouncing - "running memory asynchronously isn't too large of an issue with the A64's" and "Async with low latencies vs. sync with higher latencies usually do just about the same".

From what I have seen though, considerably higher FSB's (HT's) have trumped the value of lower latency in most cases as I recall. Latency makes a certain amount of difference - a FSB that is 70+ higher makes another amount of difference.

There is an implication also when you say "running memory asynchronously is not too large of an issue for A64's as compared to Athlon XP's" - what is it exactly that makes this less of an issue for A64's?

I wouldn't ask these questions if I didn't wonder, I'm not trying to be an ass or anything.

cyrix: The numbers should go up in '01 - I am something like 1-2000 marks ahead of you with my 9700pro and my pally1800 both stock.

[c627627]

You beat me to the same question I was about to post IMOG.
(Also, Gautam's an honorable man and doesn't take things the wrong way.)

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by TC
Great review - now I know what to play with next ;) Odd that the memory scores are so low though. I was getting 6300+ with my FX51 on the Asus. Well this is not dual channel though correct?
i think single channel on the a64 platform is EXCELLENT.

http://www.maxvla.com/host/komusa4200b.jpg

thats 300mhz 1:1 with bad timings 3 4 4 8 and i'm still pulling 4600mb/s.

[Maxvla]

no wrath from maxvla, gautam :)

when i run my 2x512mb mushkin bh5 in my a64 rig it doesn't work over 205fsb no matter what i have the timings set to. this shuttle (perhaps a nf3 150-wide problem) doesn't like running two sticks of any size. one stick works great! this mobo is definately not a board capable of being overclocked and functioning as a workstation with its ram limitations, however it is a great bench rig and good gamer if you have single sticks of 512 or 1gb.

however gautam.. you have a long way to go on that 3dmark score. 10x235 cas 2.5 2 2 5 454/380 i score 22,774. you rig is 150mhz core faster, slightly slower video core, but faster video ram. you have double the cache. you should be hitting 23k easy.

[hitechjb1]

Originally posted by Maxvla

i think single channel on the a64 platform is EXCELLENT.

http://www.maxvla.com/host/komusa4200b.jpg

thats 300mhz 1:1 with bad timings 3 4 4 8 and i'm still pulling 4600mb/s.

Had that 300 MHz run on a 128-bit memory bus in 939/940, the bandwidth would be towards 9000 MB/s. Will see what number we would get when 939 hardwares come out, and see whether the memory bus can run at 300 MHz level in 939 hardware.

I think 3DMark01 which depends a lot on CPU raw power and memory bandwidth, should see a big advantage in 939/940.

[Maxvla]

no no no... single channel's high efficiency is why the score is high. i would expect around 7k-7.5k on a dual channel a64 setup. the efficiency for dual channel is around 70-75%. with single channel is more like 90%

think of it like this perfect 100% efficiency with my setup would be about 5,000mb/s in single channel. dual channel 100% efficiency would be 10,000mb/s. minus 10% from 5000 is 4500 (about what i scored) and minus 25% from 10k is 7500 which is about what i would predict.

how have the 940 ECC tests held up? i haven't really looked at them. i remember seeing 7k on a a64 fx rig but no particulars. if the a64 DC controller is more efficient we might be looking at 8,000 or so on a high end dual channel setup.

[hitechjb1]

In the P4 arena, the QDR efficiency is around 75%, and memory bus is 64-bit
effective_memory_bandwidth = FSB x 4 x 8 MB/s x 0.75 ~ 24 FSB

XP nforce2 single channel efficiency ~ 85-90%
effective bandwidth = 0.875 x 2 x 8 x FSB ~ 14 FSB

XP nforce2 dual channel effieiency ~ 90 - 95% (actually should be 45-48%, depends on how it is counted)
effective bandwidth = 0.925 x 2 x 8 x FSB ~ 15 FSB


Your 754 benchmark shows the 754 memory efficiency being around 4574/4800 = 95%.
At 300 MHz, the max bandwidth would be 4800 MB/s for single channel, and 9600 MB/s for 128-bit bus (theoretical max).

For the 939 128-bit memory bus, I haven't come across any number for its bandwidth efficiency, so there is a possibility that it could be higher than 75%.
At 80%, 300 MHz, the effective bandwidth would be 7680 MB/s
At 90%, 300 MHz, the effective bandwdith would be 8640 MB/s
At 95%, 300 MHz, the effective bandwdith would be 9120 MB/s
(There is no ECC in 939).

The 128-bit memory bus may be more efficient than the 64-bit QDR, hope it is close to the single channel number ~90%. This is just an expectation, not confirmed.

[Maxvla]

that is a good point about the 128 vs 64. i guess we'll just have to wait and see :)

the thing about nf2 dual channel efficiency is that the chip doesn't have the room to use its potential so i think that is misleading. a p4 on the other hand has ample room to use the extra bandwidth due to the quad pumped fsb instead of dual like the athlon xp. it shows efficiency around 75% which is where i expect the a64 to be at. possibly slightly higher due to the ondie controller. i would think the best possible would be 85%

[c627627]

Originally posted by Speed_Mechanic2
Those who havn't checked this out already, OCWorkBench has posted three benchmarks comparing a Socket 939 FX (2.2GHz) with single-channel and with dual-channel. It's said to be done with the same CPU, and isn't a comparison between a Socket 754 3400+ (2.2GHz) with a Socket 939 FX (2.2GHz). It is done on a Socket 939 motherboard with the SiS756-chipset, presumably a referance board design.

It doesn't show too much, but does give an idea of what to expect when comparing performance of Socket 754 single-channel Athlon64's (w/ 1MB L2 Cache) against Socket 939 dual-channel FX (w/ 1MB L2 Cache).

SANDRA 2003, QUAKE 3, and C.C Winston 2003 are the benchmarks.

SANDRA 2003 Buffered (INT/FLOAT)
Single Channel - 3101/3099
Dual Channel - 5763.5/5706.5

QUAKE 3 (800x600 / 1024x768)
Single Channel - 369.6 / 354.8
Dual Channel - 393.8 / 374.1

C.C Winston 2003
Single Channel - 40.6
Dual Channel - 43.8

Newspost @ OCWorkBench - http://www.ocworkbench.com/ocwbcgi/newspro/viewnews.cgi?newsid1081779022,50567,
Discussion @ OCWorkBench - http://www.ocworkbench.com/ocwbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=000711

[Maxvla]

not bad but i'm thinking with a better chipset the numbers could improve. still, 5800 stock is no slouch. thats 800mb/s faster than a stock intel rig. i still see 8k as being top end.

[hitechjb1]

I have seen number on memory bandwidth for a FX51 to a A64, assuming running same bus frequency

FX51 - 5315 MB/s (dual channel 128-bit bus)
A64 - 2954 MB/s (64-bit bus)

bandwidth_128_bus / bandwidth_64_bus = 5315 / 2954 = 1.8

So assuming the 64_bus has 95% efficiency, then the

128_bus_efficiency would be 95% * 1.8 / 2 = 86%.


At 86% efficiency, the effective bandwidth for the 939 128-bit memory bus would be 81% higher than that of a 754 64-bit memory bus, with assumed 95% memory efficiency. This higher bandwidth in 939 would have big impact on memory intensive applications such as video and image streaming, applications using spatially structured data as in scientific computation, ..., as well as 3Dmark01.

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by hitechjb1
I have seen number on memory bandwidth for a FX51 to a A64, assuming running same bus frequency

FX51 - 5315 MB/s (dual channel 128-bit bus)
A64 - 2954 MB/s (64-bit bus)

bandwidth_128_bus / bandwidth_64_bus = 5315 / 2954 = 1.8

So assuming the 64_bus has 95% efficiency, then the

128_bus_efficiency would be 95% * 1.8 / 2 = 86%.


At 86% efficiency, the effective bandwidth for the 939 128-bit memory bus would be 81% higher than that of a 754 64-bit memory bus, with assumed 95% memory efficiency. This higher bandwidth in 939 would have big impact on memory intensive applications such as video and image streaming, applications using spatially structured data as in scientific computation, ..., as well as 3Dmark01.
sounds good. appears the a64 dual channel IS more efficient than the intel counterpart. score one for the underdog.

[Gautam]

Guatam, I am not so sure on a couple of the points you have been pronouncing - "running memory asynchronously isn't too large of an issue with the A64's" and "Async with low latencies vs. sync with higher latencies usually do just about the same".
Yeah, at 70+ MHz difference you've definitely got a point. I was considering these results from d]g[ts, with BH5:
On my 25K run ( Had 3 so far all different setups )
1. A64 @ 2430 ram @ 220 2-2-2-6 vid card @ 517/406 25056
2. A64 @ 2475 ram @ 247 2.5-2-2-6 vidcard @ 500/400 25114
3. A64 @ 2475 ram @ 247 2.5-2-2-6 vidcard @ 500/400 25213

There is an implication also when you say "running memory asynchronously is not too large of an issue for A64's as compared to Athlon XP's" - what is it exactly that makes this less of an issue for A64's?
With AXP's, running async seems to take a very heavy toll on efficiency; a 15%-20% drop. With the A64, the drop is around 5%. At least that's what I've seen. Sandra never seems to place nice with me regardless of platform. :(
however gautam.. you have a long way to go on that 3dmark score. 10x235 cas 2.5 2 2 5 454/380 i score 22,774. you rig is 150mhz core faster, slightly slower video core, but faster video ram. you have double the cache. you should be hitting 23k easy.
Same to you. :p I still think you should be pulling 23k as well. That was just a godawful car low run, close to 50 fps below what it should be. :eek: Only 2 fps above what it was at stock speeds. I just ran that for openers, no tweaks, no nothing. I think I'll end up with very close to 1000 higher than that soon at the same speeds.
I think 3DMark01 which depends a lot on CPU raw power and memory bandwidth, should see a big advantage in 939/940.

There's barely a 500 points difference between 754 and 940 at the upper end of 3DMark2001. Nothing considerable at all. For gaming performance, there probably won't be a noticeable difference between 939 and 754, but in more intensive tasks probably will be.

[deathstar13]

wow soooooo many numbers! BRAIN overload :)
so i understand correctly,for useing a 3200 A64 as an ocing/gaming rig:
i need 1 stick 4200/4500 or so 512/1gb of ram for best operation?
this being on a nf3 150 mobo,correct?single channel 290fsb or so.

how do the via mobos compare in the 290fsb range if even possable?

[Maxvla]

Originally posted by Gautam
Same to you. :p I still think you should be pulling 23k as well. That was just a godawful car low run, close to 50 fps below what it should be. :eek: Only 2 fps above what it was at stock speeds. I just ran that for openers, no tweaks, no nothing. I think I'll end up with very close to 1000 higher than that soon at the same speeds.
i'm not so sure i should be at 23k. i was hoping for it but my chip just isn't very good and my ram can't run cas 2 in this shuttle mobo. 2350mhz and cas 2.5 ram cut short my bid for 23k. my card isn't that great. no slouch but nothing worth writing home about.

i just moved my 3.9ghz p4 into the main rig. we'll see if it improves.

anyways... i'm looking forward to 939 and better luck with a chip.

[I.M.O.G.]

I'm looking forward to it also... I just wish I didn't have to squint so hard to see it way out there in the distance. :rolleyes:

[c627627]

It appears that distance is now no later than May 2004 for first 939 chips and mobos but there's more and more talk of markup galore pricewise also, just as we expected.


My focus is on what this inexpensive little thing will be able to do, coupled with quality expensive RAM:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=287163

[trueplaya4ever8]

Hey Gautam, i have a quick question on the board, what's max voltage for the cpu and the memory?
thanks

[OC Detective]

Originally posted by c627627
It appears that distance is now no later than May 2004 for first 939 chips and mobos but there's more and more talk of markup galore pricewise also, just as we expected.


My focus is on what this inexpensive little thing will be able to do, coupled with quality expensive RAM:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=287163
Couple of things about the article in the link - firstly the mobiles (not DTR'S) run at 62W if they are the 1.4V vcore version not 65W as stated in that article.
Secondly the 3400+, 3200+ and 3000+ with half the cache are a 3200+, 3000+ and 2800+ respectively yet they say a 2800+ with half the cache will be a 2700+ running at 35W??
Oh and finally if you look at the AMD Athlon 64 Processor Power and thermal Data Sheet in the revision history near the start its says the following.

(Date) March 2004 (Revision) 3.15 (Description) Added rev CG 35W model 2700+ OPN....
Then the latest addition is
(Date) April 2004 (Revision) 3.19 (Description) REMOVED rev CG 35W OPN!

[c627627]

That's some first class Detective work, thanks!

[Silent Buddha]

Wait...so they removed the newer CG stepping from the Mobile Athlon 64s? Could that mean a better stepping ahead?

[Gautam]

Originally posted by trueplaya4ever8
Hey Gautam, i have a quick question on the board, what's max voltage for the cpu and the memory?
thanks

1.7v overvolted to 1.75v, and a "+0.3v" which I'm guessing mean 2.8v or 2.9v for most.

[Vice]

My Athlon64 3200+ is still running at stock until I get moved into my new house and get broadband access back:(

However, I opted for nForce3 just as Gautam but chose the Chaintech Zenith-150. At stock speed with Mushkin Lvl 1 PC3200 RAM I broke 19,800 on the 3dMark2001. This was after loading SP1 and streamlining the OS configurations for benchmarking, however, so my motherboard sounds pretty similar to what Gautam is using.

I was wondering how to overcome the lack of a PCI lock and see the perfect solution with the RAID controller Gautam is using. Thanks for the tip!

I will see how my scores compare. I have a lot of faith in this Chaintech board but am worried about my PC3200 memory. I have not pushed the RAM to see how high it will go yet.

Thanks for the tips! This is a good thread for those wanting to see what the Athlon64 can do.

[devilscow22]

Originally posted by OC Detective


(Date) March 2004 (Revision) 3.15 (Description) Added rev CG 35W model 2700+ OPN....
Then the latest addition is
(Date) April 2004 (Revision) 3.19 (Description) REMOVED rev CG 35W OPN!

so if i got a 3200+ DTR now it wouldent be the CG revision? and are they going back to the old one or is a whole new devision

[TC]

Newegg was out of the 3200+ DTR for a few days. They got some more in late yesterday and mine shipped out. I should have it up and running by the middle to late next week if all goes well. I'll let you know if mine is a CG or something else.

[devilscow22]

alright thx ill wait till then

[Gautam]

I got some Kingston HyperX 3000 the other day. It's rated for 2-2-2-6 timings at 2.5v. I haven't done much playing around with it yet, except luckily, unlike my other sticks, these actually let me change the CAS latency. However, it doesn't boot into Windows at CAS2 at 200mhz for some reason. I'm not totally sure if that actually means its unstable, though.

What's concerning me are my abysmal memory bandwidth scores. They are just plain pathetic. I've run tests at CAS 2, CAS 2.5 and CAS 3, and it always gets only about 80-85% effieciency, much worse bandwidth than my AXP.

http://home.comcast.net/~gautamb/mem.JPG

Not really sure what's causing this. This benchie was done at stock speeds, with 11-3-3-2.5 timings.

The removal of the CG revision is bizzare indeed.

[sappo]

Gautam, Isnt that because you're running async? Async is bad if memory timings are what your after -at least with the nforce2 boards. Also what's your hyptertransport at?

I know there are PR calculators, but do you have any idea where your a64 woudl be at 2.5ghz?

[Gautam]

Those were actually done in sync. Stock speeds, so a 600MHz HT speed. Async and sync give me the same numbers.

I'd say it measures up to a 4-4.2GHz P4 or a 3.2-3.4 GHz Barton with a 200MHz FSB.

I got a new 3DMark01 score, 23381 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7763691) at 460/385. Good? Bad? I dunno.

[sappo]

is 600ht low? Some boards are stable over 1000mhz. Heck, i dont even know if HT helps with memory scores. Must get one soon so i can play with it.

How are you in sync if your ram is only at 210mhz? doesnt it need to be at 250?

23381 sounds pretty impressive. Eh, 3.2-3.4ghz barton?

[Silent Buddha]

Gautum take off the ram heatspreaders. Not only does it run cooler, but you can see if you got CH-5, BH-5, or BH-6. You probably know this but:

DW45: Made before 0318 is BH-5, Made after is most likely CH-5 but can be BH-5 also
DW50: BH-5
DW60: BH-6
Winbond BH-5: Obviously BH-5, not re-branded by Kingston

Crank up the volts and let the memory fly! Otherwise it's off to RMA :). Oh, by the way did you order from the Kingston store? It's cheaper but it seems more people get crappy CH-5 KHX3000 from there.

[Gautam]

There's such a low chance that I got BH5 that I won't even bother popping the heatspreader. This stuff is new and from Kingston's website. Its gonna be some late week DW45, 99.99999% chance of it. I'll mess around with the timings later. I'm just too busy enjoying this rig to do much, lol. The memory controller hates a gig, so I'm not going to end up doing too well anyways. Cranking up the volts only means 2.8v. :-/ I wasn't too concerned about ultra-tight timings. With the amount of trouble and money you need to go through to get BH5/BH6, I'd take CH5 over it any day.

[Silent Buddha]

Originally posted by Gautam
There's such a low chance that I got BH5 that I won't even bother popping the heatspreader. This stuff is new and from Kingston's website. Its gonna be some late week DW45, 99.99999% chance of it.

Ouch...I guess I will pay $20 extra to get it off ZipZoomFly and see if I get BH-5.

Anways, nice oc. It will be interesting to see what stepping AMD moves to from CG.

[I.M.O.G.]

Zipzoomfly goes through a lot of inventory... That would be one of the last places I would play the lottery on getting BH5. If I were hoping to get lucky going through a retailer, I would try to find someone who doesn't sell much memory.

[TC]

Thought I would bump this thread. I got my 3200 from Newegg this week and it's the exact same as Gautam's. I just fired it up and was surprised by how long this board takes to post. I mean it's about 30 seconds before the monitor lights off and post starts. Made a quick run through the bios and upped the voltage a tad since it said it was defaulting to 1.1 for some reason. Now installing win2k and will tinker more tomorrow.

[Silent Buddha]

Originally posted by IMOG
Zipzoomfly goes through a lot of inventory... That would be one of the last places I would play the lottery on getting BH5. If I were hoping to get lucky going through a retailer, I would try to find someone who doesn't sell much memory.

I got my 2x512MB KHX PC3000 from newegg yesterday...has re-marked Winbond BH-5. DW45 0304 and 0307 :D. Double-sided though :(.

[Gautam]

Seems like my KHX3000 is BH5 as well. :) I didn't pop the heatspreader, but it loves the tight timings. Past 215 or so is no-go at 2-2-2, though, although that's understandable. Even though I've got two double-sided sticks, I still can make it to 235 rock solid with 7-3-3-2 timings, better than any other A64 I've ever seen.

TC, leave the core voltage at 1.5v in the BIOS. For some reason, it refuses to save any higher than that, so you have to go into BIOS every single time you boot up to select higher voltages. Isn't much of a concern with a 24/7 rig though. I just generally use EasyTune for the sole purpose of increasing the core voltage.

The only bad news I've got is that I can't seem to make it to 2.6GHz under these conditions. The voltage is just too low to give that sort of headroom. However, I'm sure that if I had the 2.1v that I had in my NF7 available to me, this proc would break at least 2.8, and probably even 2.9.

[TC]

I'm about ready to throw this thing out the window. This is one of the worst motherboards I've ever worked with. I have to cycle the power about 4-5 times just to get it to post, and then it won't finish posting about half the time it even turns on. It makes it to the Silicon image raid bios, and then resets by itself. If I disable the raid bios it just sits there with a winking cursor and does nothing. I was only able to boot into windows once after the install completed. I've got the F11 bios - is there some trick to making this thing behave normal?

[altec]

Hey Gautam, long time no see buddy.

Glad to hear of your results with the new hardware. It almost makes me want to scrap my current system and see what I can do with some similar hardware. Too bad I'm already in debt, and cannot afford anything (not even cigarettes) at the moment.

I may be dropping you a PM about some stuff....try to catch up on all that I have been absent for the the AMD and the general computer world....so keep your eyes peeled.

Once again, good to see your results.....keep the info coming. ;)

With best regards,
Tray

[hitechjb1]

Unless you did not have a computer and needed a new computer yesterday and don't want to get a nforce2 + mobile barton for now, even you want to go with the the more price/performance 754 plateform, wait for the NFORCE3 250 GB chip set motherboards which fix lots of bugs of the first 150 chipset. The 250 GB motherboard for 754 and 939 should be coming out soon (May - June, I think).

[Gautam]

Hrmmm....

Price/performance is an interesting thought with regards to the A64.

And I have a rather interesting conclusion.

I think in terms of the greatest practicality, the best price/performance and most reasonable option would be a budget K8T800 based board, such as the $81 Chaintech SK8T800, along with the $187 retail A64 without investing any money into overclocking. This would provide for a stable and quick platform as long as you aren't into tweaking. Leaving it at stock speeds would provide comparable performance to a mobile Barton at 2.4GHz or so, without any fuss. Sorry for even suggesting it. ;)

The nForce3 150 is a nice enough platform. Thanls to C627627 for the heads up on the PCI-locked Aopen AK89 Max (http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=2033). However, the 150 remains a quirky platform in regards to it basically requiring BH5 to get anywhere with double-sided memory modules. Waiting may very well be the best option. But today's hardware is also very nice.

Originally posted by TC
I'm about ready to throw this thing out the window. This is one of the worst motherboards I've ever worked with. I have to cycle the power about 4-5 times just to get it to post, and then it won't finish posting about half the time it even turns on. It makes it to the Silicon image raid bios, and then resets by itself. If I disable the raid bios it just sits there with a winking cursor and does nothing. I was only able to boot into windows once after the install completed. I've got the F11 bios - is there some trick to making this thing behave normal?

It has done similar things to me on one or two occasions. It didn't like a 256MB AGP Aperture size(not that I'd use it) and finding what timings your memory can run stable at can be difficult as well. It doesn't save core voltages above 1.5v. I usually use EasyTune4 for changing core voltage solely, if I ever have to shut down my system. Leave the voltage at 1.5v only in the BIOS. I've disabled just about everything onboard, but I've used all the controllers, the ITE, the onboard RAID, and the onboard IDE controller without any problems. Keep everything at spec and see how it goes.

Other than that, I didn't really encounter too many issues. It always POSTs promptly and boots easily for me. It just won't let me overclock at all in the BIOS, which only seems to be a problem CG-revision processors. I do all my overclocking in ClockGen anyways.

Hitechjb1's advice is sound as ever. But there's no way I can say that I'm unhappy with my albeit impulsive purchase. June just would have been too long a wait for me, and I was dying for something new. The system has been rock solid, overclocking and performing like a dream.

Welcome back, Tray! Great to see you again! :beer:

[TC]

Well I've tried it with "fail safe" settings and optimized, manually setting ram and leaving it on auto. It just plain doesn't act right. I haven't even tried to overclock - heck I can't get into windows. It always hangs on the SI bios. I've tried disabling it and it still hangs around the same step in post. Sometimes it appears to be in a perpetual reset state when I power it on. Maybe it's a bad board. I know the ram is good and I have a different video card I can swap in, but that's about it.

[TC]

Alright I finally figured out the problem. Unless it's set to exactly 1.5 volts for the cpu it stays at 1.1 and the system can't run properly that low. Must be something to do with this chip not being properly recognized. Anyway I can get into windows and up the voltage to 1.7 with easy tune. Funny program that easy tune. It starts off saying the cpu speed is 1GHz. If I change nothing but the cpu voltage and apply it, it ramps the fsb up to 230 at the same time. I can go into clockgen and adjust everything from there. Looks like mine is maxing out around 2600 on the cpu and 280 htt. Got to see what my BH5 will do on this board. What is the last ram timing option in the bios? I've never seen that before. Any idea what it's feeding the ram with the ddr set to + 0.3?

[Gautam]

Hrmm...what memory are you using? Use the spec CAS latency only, and 4-4-7 from there. Keep the core voltage 1.5 only, the AGP Aperture at 128mb. What hard drives do you have? Disable the SI controller altogether if you can help it.

[Gautam]

Originally posted by TC
Alright I finally figured out the problem. Unless it's set to exactly 1.5 volts for the cpu it stays at 1.1 and the system can't run properly that low. Must be something to do with this chip not being properly recognized. Anyway I can get into windows and up the voltage to 1.7 with easy tune. Funny program that easy tune. It starts off saying the cpu speed is 1GHz. If I change nothing but the cpu voltage and apply it, it ramps the fsb up to 230 at the same time. I can go into clockgen and adjust everything from there. Looks like mine is maxing out around 2600 on the cpu and 280 htt. Got to see what my BH5 will do on this board. What is the last ram timing option in the bios? I've never seen that before. Any idea what it's feeding the ram with the ddr set to + 0.3?

Nice, I don't think mine can do 2.6, at least not stable. Highest stable point I got was 2550. Yes, you can't use anything other than 1.5v in the BIOS. The HTT should go higher than that. Try LDT 2x. The memory is getting 2.8v overvolted to 2.9v, AFAIK. EasyTune does the same irritating thing for me. :-/

[TC]

Well I thought it was working. Left it at 2500 using your settings - 10X250 with ram at 166 in bios for roughly 210 actual, cas 2336, but as soon as I try to benchmark the system immediately reboots. LDT is at 2X and I raised all the voltage options in the bios by + .3. CPU voltage is 7.1 according to cpuz.

[TC]

Looks like mine is not stable at 2500, but 250 htt is okay. Dang I have a shiny new thermalright 948 on it. I'm back to where I was with the FX51 :(

[TC]

Few questions Gautam:

Under advanced chipset do you know what the following options do, and/or what is yours set to:

Speculative TLB Reloads Enabled or Disabled
LDT Downstream Width Auto or 8 bits
Refresh Period for Ram tREF default appears to be 2X3120

I've also noticed I can't get my board to finish posting with the LDT multi at 2.5. It's either 2 or 3X. Have you noticed the same? I'm currently trying ultra low latency timings with LDT at 3X htt at 230, ram at 1:1 cas 2225.

[I.M.O.G.]

/IMOG watches and reconsiders jumping into nforce3 before bugs are worked out...

[c627627]

IMOG, more & more info now on PCI locked nForce3-150s now but there's more to it than just PCI locks:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291331

[hitechjb1]

Originally posted by hitechjb1
Unless you did not have a computer and needed a new computer yesterday and don't want to get a nforce2 + mobile barton for now, even you want to go with the the more price/performance 754 plateform, wait for the NFORCE3 250 GB chip set motherboards which fix lots of bugs of the first 150 chipset. The 250 GB motherboard for 754 and 939 should be coming out soon (May - June, I think).


Even going for the 754 price-performance route, the Nforce3 250 GB motherboards are around the corner, and they are reviewed to be more feature rich, more stable (bug fixes since 150), ..., a better choice than the 150. The PCI-lock would be a non-issue.

Remarks on A64 and various platforms (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2711783#post2711783) (page 19)

Links to Nforce3 250 GB reviews and motherboards (http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2712405#post2712405) (page 19)

[I.M.O.G.]

Mention of NF3-250 here (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2712488#post2712488)... Might want to take a look. DDR2 will require another new CPU socket, other than 939? I thought the RAM sockets were all that would be different (like a socket A mobo that takes SDR 168 pin RAM, or a socket A mobo that takes DDR 184 pin RAM)?

[hitechjb1]

DDR2 memory module is different from DDR memory module in many aspects such as pin count, voltage, signal timing, signal termination, chip package, ..., so it would require a completely different motherboard layout. This is similar to when motherboard moved from PC100, PC133 to DDR226 memory. Definitely a new motherboard layout would be required for DDR2, but this may not be sufficient for the DDR2 change over.

Whether it would require a new CPU socket, AFAIK, I don't think there is a yes or no answer yet. But the DDR2 memory change over wont't happen until at least late 2005.

Whether the above answer being yes or no, I think whoever wants a A64 platform could not wait that long until the DDR2 + socket issue is clear one way or the other. I think by the time if there is a DDR2 change over (18 months ?), the motherbarods will be more feature rich, higher HT bandwidth and better HT devices and much more powerful 90 nm CPU, there would probably be another upgrade cycle.

So the current/soon-to-be possibilities are, IMO:
- motherboard w/ Nforce3 250 GB + 754 CPU (price performance)
- motherboard w/ Nforce3 250 GB + 939 CPU (more money for CPU ?)

There is a possibility for the chipset K8T800 Pro instead of the 250 GB, depends on how it performs.

[I.M.O.G.]

So the current/soon-to-be possibilities are, IMO:
- motherboard w/ Nforce3 250 GB + 754 CPU (price performance)
- motherboard w/ Nforce3 250 GB + 939 CPU (more money for CPU ?)

If I remember correctly (it's hard to remember all the ground we've covered in these 754/939 threads lately), 90nm should be coming around Q4 2004 though right?

So maybe this means 3 fairly current upgrade options from my perspective:

So the current/soon-to-be possibilities are, IMO:
1 - motherboard w/ Nforce3 250 GB + 754 CPU (price performance)
2 - motherboard w/ Nforce3 250 GB + 130nm 939 CPU (more money for CPU ?)
3 - motherboard w/ Nforce3 250 GB + 90nm 939 CPU + PCI-e

What do you think of that? PCI-e might be coming a while before 90nm gets here, so maybe it is an option for both 2 and 3 though.

[hitechjb1]

I consider the

250 GB + 939 130 nm
250 GB + 939 90 nm

the same category, because the motherboard would be able to take either of these 939 CPU's.

It is a matter whether you can wait another 6 months for the 90 nm 939 and richer featured motherboard + HT devices (such as PCI-e). At that time, the CPU price and yield would be better also.

It is a matter of urges to get a A64 system.

So the current/soon-to-be possibilities are still, IMO:
- motherboard w/ Nforce3 250 GB + 754 CPU (price performance)
- motherboard w/ Nforce3 250 GB + 939 CPU (more money for CPU ?)

There is a possibility for the chipset K8T800 Pro instead of the 250 GB, depends on how it performs.

[Gautam]

Originally posted by TC
Few questions Gautam:

Under advanced chipset do you know what the following options do, and/or what is yours set to:

Speculative TLB Reloads Enabled or Disabled
LDT Downstream Width Auto or 8 bits
Refresh Period for Ram tREF default appears to be 2X3120

I've also noticed I can't get my board to finish posting with the LDT multi at 2.5. It's either 2 or 3X. Have you noticed the same? I'm currently trying ultra low latency timings with LDT at 3X htt at 230, ram at 1:1 cas 2225.
Stuff on TLB reloads (http://www.creativecow.net/articles/hawes_tyler/amd_mps/athlonmp_760mp_5.html)
I leave it at Enabled.

Default LDT bus width is 16 bits, so leave that on Auto.

I've got no problems with the LDT at 2.5x. It's in fact the setting I use.

I don't know if you have a gig of ram, but A64's are generally very picky. I wouldn't expect your memory to be stable at those speeds and timings, even if they were in another board. My CH5 stick was not even fully stable at 200 3-3-2. My 2x512 BH5 is stable at 235 3-3-2, and slightly above 210 with 2-2-2 timings. At first I blamed instability at low speeds on my processor, but it turned out to be the memory. Prime95 failed within 3 minutes with my CH5. Loosen your timings, have the memory running real slow before determining the proc as the limiting factor, if you haven't already.

[TC]

I thought TLB sounded vaguely familiar - thanks for the link. Currently I'm running 1x256MB stick of corsair 3200LL (BH5) that would do 218fsb at cas 2225 in my Abit AI7 with 3 volts. It even did 250 at cas 2448 with 3.2 volts. I don't think the ram is having a problem, but I'll double check everything. It seems to reboot now as soon as I get to about 10X250 even with the ram set back to 166, so it's only hitting its rated speed at 250 htt. I don't know what it is with my LDT multiplier - but my board absolutely refuses to finish post and start loading the OS if it's at 2.5. After it detects the IDE devices it goes to a blank screen with the cursor blinking in the upper left corner. It's totally locked at that point and will not even shutdown by holding the power button. I have to hit the switch on the psu to kill it.

[TC]

It's definitely the cpu. I dropped the ram timings to 3336 and it still reboots right around 10X250, however I can go up to 9X270 and prime for hours on end. I also figured out something funny about the LDT multiplier. If I set the ram speed to 166 in the bios the board will not finishing post with LDT at 2.5. It must either be at 2 or 3. If however I change the ram to auto, 150, or 200 it will post just fine with the LDT multi at 2.5. I finally set the ram to 200 cas 2447 and it primed for about 12 hours at 9.5X250 with LDT at 2.5. Seems like a pretty good speed to me considering the ram is holding 1:1 at 250 cas 2447. All in all it's doing on air about what my FX would on water, so I guess this stepping is slightly better.

[Silent Buddha]

I'm definitely not waiting for a DDRII A64 mobo. I'm upgrading at the end of this year, 90nm A64 and nForce3 250GB mobo. Or if I have the money, I'll get a FX-55 "San Diego" which will be 90nm and a nForce3 250GB mobo.

[Gautam]

Originally posted by TC
It's definitely the cpu. I dropped the ram timings to 3336 and it still reboots right around 10X250, however I can go up to 9X270 and prime for hours on end. I also figured out something funny about the LDT multiplier. If I set the ram speed to 166 in the bios the board will not finishing post with LDT at 2.5. It must either be at 2 or 3. If however I change the ram to auto, 150, or 200 it will post just fine with the LDT multi at 2.5. I finally set the ram to 200 cas 2447 and it primed for about 12 hours at 9.5X250 with LDT at 2.5. Seems like a pretty good speed to me considering the ram is holding 1:1 at 250 cas 2447. All in all it's doing on air about what my FX would on water, so I guess this stepping is slightly better.

TC, give the F9 BIOS a shot. I haven't tried it yet, but it has seemed to help some. It also, AFAIK, is a little more "enthusiast friendly;" the actual voltage rails are displayed, not simply "OK," and the actual voltage you're selecting shows up, not simply "+0.3v", etc .2.5x LDT and 166MHz memory speed works fine and dandy for me...dunno what's up. Is that your BH5? If so, I'd better give 1:1 a shot.

[Gautam]

Originally posted by Silent Buddha
I'm definitely not waiting for a DDRII A64 mobo. I'm upgrading at the end of this year, 90nm A64 and nForce3 250GB mobo. Or if I have the money, I'll get a FX-55 "San Diego" which will be 90nm and a nForce3 250GB mobo.
I'm quite doubtful that we'll see any 90nm processors this year. Every update to the A64 seems to be getting pushed further and further back.

[TC]

Yes I'm using a stick of corsair 3200LL BH5 at 250 1:1 cas 2447. I looked for the F9 bios but that appears to be quite old - F10 is the oldest bios I see posted, and my board has F11.

[Silent Buddha]

Originally posted by Gautam
I'm quite doubtful that we'll see any 90nm processors this year. Every update to the A64 seems to be getting pushed further and further back.

That may be true especially if IBM really is having problems with the 90nm process but my loss is really just AMD's loss. AMD is failing to capitalize on Prescott's failure and the complete joke that Grantsdale and Springdale chipsets with LGA775 will turn out to be. I think I will be happy with my Mobile Barton upgrade with a 9800 Pro on watercooling. I don't feel the need to justify a sizable A64 upgrade...I'm sure I don't need 2,000-3,000 point increase in 3DMark01 SE.

[BeerHunter]

Originally posted by devilscow22
"The only two PCI devices that I am running are a Promise FastTrack S150 TX2Plus Serial ATA controller, and a Soundblaster Audigy2. In order to avoid hard drive corruption that results from high PCI buses, a controller card supporting 66MHz PCI buses is required. This card fits the bill perfectly, and allows very aggressive overclocking without issue. The Soundblaster also can handle PCI buses in excess of 50MHz."

could you give me a link to that controller card? i am going to building a A64 soon and i think i might be getting alot of the same components as you, thanks

Get the AOpen "AK89 Max" and you won't need it. Has PCI and AGP lock.

Here's a review http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=2033

As a matter a fact, after reading this wonderful work and results I got one one order along with the $270 DTR.:) Kudos for taking the plunge.:)

[c627627]

I thought so too Reagan but then

Originally posted by Maxvla
someone im'd me today and said the aopen only does 1.5v on the chip which would severely limit oc'ability. i'd stay away.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291331

So Gautam's Gigabyte GA-K8N Pro is better because on top of everything else, he now knows it's PCI locked too. Bonus :)

[BeerHunter]

Gawd I hate calling newegg in the morning to cancel/change. They may have shipped it by then, or say they did at least:(

Thanks for the heads up.

[c627627]

Log in to your newegg account, you can do this online, you don't have to call them. Also, remember we're 1 month or less away from VIA K8T800 PRO and nForce3 250.


Originally posted by hitechjb1
Since the 250 GB chipset is close to being available, more features (direct SATA RAID support 0, 1, 0+1, JBOD, more RAID channels, span over SATA and IDE, ...), faster HT bus, less bugs, with PCI-lock, ..., why considering the 150 chipset now?

A more interesting question is whether

250 GB + 754 CPU
or
250 GB + 939 CPU

(The K8T800 PRO being an alternative, but not much motherboard info available.)

[BeerHunter]

Ya but we talked in another thread how they are nixing soundstorm. I really don't see a need to wait? Do you? I'm kinda new to AMDs world so I may be missing things. And I won't buy via anything. Founded or unfounded my experiances have not been good compared to nivida/intel chipsets.

[I.M.O.G.]

I see a need to...

Originally posted by hitechjb1
Since the 250 GB chipset is close to being available, more features (direct SATA RAID support 0, 1, 0+1, JBOD, more RAID channels, span over SATA and IDE, ...), faster HT bus, less bugs, with PCI-lock, ..., why considering the 150 chipset now?

A more interesting question is whether

250 GB + 754 CPU
or
250 GB + 939 CPU

(The K8T800 PRO being an alternative, but not much motherboard info available.)

I would want to see exactly what these chipsets bring with them and how people respond.

[hitechjb1]

Originally posted by IMOG
I see a need to...



I would want to see exactly what these chipsets bring with them and how people respond.

If I did not mess up with the math, this would answer the question about the various A64 processors, ....


Originally posted by hitechjb1

Comparing (preliminary) performance of A64 754, A64 939 and Barton

...

The following CPU's running at same frequency are compared
- A64 939 1 MB L2 (2x memory bus)
- A64 939 512 KB L2 (2x memory bus)
- A64 754 1 MB L2
- A64 754 512 KB L2
- Barton

To go further for evaluating the effect of L2 cache size:
Based on AMD PR on its CPU:
2800+ 1800 MHz L2 512 KB
3000+ 2000 MHz L2 512 KB
3200+ 2000 MHz L2 1 MB
3200+ 2200 MHz L2 512 KB
3400+ 2200 MHz L2 1 MB

we can see that going from 512 KB to 1 MB L2 size, the CPU rating stays the same while running 200 MHz slower at around 2 GHz level. In other words, the difference between 512 KB and 1 MB L2 is equivalent to about 10% CPU performance (rating).

So based on the above set of benchmarks, scaled the 2.4 GHz A64 FX-53 to 2.5 GHz, we have for CPU's running at the same frequency

- For comparing CPU intensive programs, on the average (with equal weight)
1 GHz of 939 A64 with 1 MB L2
~ 1 GHz of 754 A64 with 1 MB L2
= 1.13 GHz of Barton
= 1.10 GHz of 939/754 A64 with 512 KB L2

Adding memory bandwidth gives 19.3%-8.9%=10.4% advantage to 939.
- For both CPU intensive and memory intensive programs, on the average (with equal weight)
1 GHz of 939 A64 with 1 MB L2
= 1.13 x 1.1 = 1.24 GHz of Barton
= 1.10 GHz of 939 A64 with 512 KB L2
= 1.10 GHz of 754 A64 with 1 MB L2
= 1.1 x 1.1 = 1.21 GHz of 754 A64 with 512 KB L2



Ref:
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2762781#post2762781

Averaged over a SET of benchmarks with varieties,

a 939 1 MB L2 performs
10% better than a 939 512 KB L2
10% better than a 754 1 MB L2
21% better than a 754 512 KB L2
24% better than a Barton
all running at same frequency assumed.

Detail breakdown of the benchmarks is in the link shown.

[trueplaya4ever8]

man you seem to have done your homework. it looks likes its accurate to me but i am kinda guessing....

[BeerHunter]

Originally posted by IMOG
Zipzoomfly goes through a lot of inventory... That would be one of the last places I would play the lottery on getting BH5. If I were hoping to get lucky going through a retailer, I would try to find someone who doesn't sell much memory.

That's right the best place to play the BH-5 lotto is right here:

http://www.memorylabs.net/kingston-hyperx-khx3000-256-256mb-ddr370-pc3000-memory-w-heat-spreader-retail-lifetime-warranty.html

Unfortunatly they only have 256MB left. I plugged two of these for my sis' rig and they were BH-5. Now I have to decide If I raid her machine all she does is aim ...email hell:)....I'm pretty happy with this mushkin BLACK which is BH-6

[Gautam]

Thought I'd bump this.

I've since backed down to 240x10 instead of 250x10, thanks to summertime quickly approaching. My full load temps are up from about 46 to 54-55. 2.5GHz was pushing this processor pretty hard, and being on aircooling, my overclocks are now quite sensitive to ambient temperature. This could also explain why TC may have fallen about 100MHz short of how far mine went. April in Massachusetts is sorta like December-February elsewhere. Now in May, temps are skyrocketing. I sort of miss my watercooling, but the vast reduction of weight is worth it to me. Stupidly enough, I still haven't bothered to install my Torin blower. :-/

The new K8NS Pro, the nF3 250 version of my board, is out now. I don't see any need to upgrade, but if you're in the market for a board today, this is the best choice as of now. Asus should be coming out with an nF3 250 board very shortly which should be worth a look at as well. The 754, CG-revision NewCastles are out as well. They boast overclockability of around 2.6GHz on air with low voltage, but at the expense of performance. The difference between a Clawhammer and a Newcastle is similar to that between a Barton and a T-Bred, it seems. With that said, I'm still very pleased with my Clawhammer and nF3 150 setup. I've got an inkling that a lot of people are going to want the 1MB of cache when the Clawhammer will have disappeared.

Oh yeah, since BeerHunter mentioned BH5 memory, I may mention that I played the lotto from Kingston's website and got a gig for only $194. Score!

Still looks like low latency, low speed memory is of choice, even with upcoming platforms, although unfortunately its increasingly difficult to find.

[CandymanCan]

Very nice, but the reason why people say get the barton is this. My barton @ 2.6ghz gets the same score as youre on sandra, cept youre a few houndred points higher. Im sure 2.7ghz would even with ur cpu.

Another reason you dont see many posts's about the a64 is because not many people have $$$$$$ to buya new Mobo new cpu so its logical to buy a $90 cpu to upgrade what u have.

[Gautam]

Sandra is based mainly on the raw amount of clock cycles of your processor, it seems. It's too focused a test to actually mean anything, like all the Sandra tests. My A64 at 2.4GHz completely destroys what my T-Bred did at 2.6GHz, in gaming especially. Btw, this was sort of a forced upgrade. Both my NF7 and 1700+ died. :(

[CandymanCan]

I dont have a Tbred, i have a Barton which have 512k cachenot 256k, thier is a big diff between 2.6 Tbred and 2.6Gig Barton

[Gautam]

With all due respect, I was just trying to deliver some insight into the A64, being one of the first to get one. I didn't pass any judgement about the Bartons. You've got a great system, no doubt about that. The purpose of this thread was not to turn into an A64 vs. AXP flamewar(we've already had one of those and it's been deleted).

[Silent Buddha]

If you want to upgrade, get a Socket 754 Clawhammer instead of the new Socket 754 Newcastles. The new Newcastles oc much higher but lose a lot of performance. It would be a safe bet to wait for the Socket 939 Newcastles.

http://www.truextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31884

[phreakymind]

You Guys seem to be very lucky.

I have the same Stepping as Gautam an TC but my DTR doesnt like high clocks.

Giga K8N Pro with F11 Bios
2x256MB Corsair BH-5

at 10x250 i got a blackscreen in windows @ 1,7 volt (showed 1,712 in cpu-z)
at 10x245 superpi wouldnt even run more than 3 seconds.

then i tried asynch. ldt 2,5 my bh-5 at 2-3-3-7@2,9volts at 166
9x270 seemed to work (ram@220) fine but superpi strikes after 30 minutes.

gonna try 9x267... :bang head

[Gautam]

What are your cooling and temps like?

Oh yeah, get the 12c beta BIOS (http://clientes.netvisao.pt/ratax/k8np_f12c.exe) and set "Enable 2t Timming" to Disable. Without this BIOS, and that option set, it's like having CPU Interface off. You weren't trying 250 with an LDT of 3, were you? Tried upping the HTT voltage? I've never run the HTT above 250 in everyday usage, and I know that running at 280 craps out almost immediately. 270 probably isn't completely stable at stock volts and even a 2.5x LDT.

Edit: Take care in using this BIOS. Some with this combo(DTR+ F12c) have had problems POSTing after the flash. I would recommend setting your core voltage to 1.5v before flashing and doing so within Windows. Also, if possible, try to borrow a desktop processor from a friend as a precaution.

[phreakymind]

i still have a desktop 3200+ in reserve. i gonna try the f12c bios.

my temps seem to be ok. im on water.

25c idle 34c on load.

I tried 10x250 on ldt 2,5x. ldt 3x only goes up to 230 HTT and i upped all voltages for the 9x270 run.

friend of mine is running his 3400+ on the gigabyte with 9x280 1:1 with a-data ram.

[KAJINOFE]

Oh yeah, since BeerHunter mentioned BH5 memory, I may mention that I played the lotto from Kingston's website and got a gig for only $194. Score!

Still looks like low latency, low speed memory is of choice, even with upcoming platforms, although unfortunately its increasingly difficult to find.

1. Gautam, is that Kingston 1 Stick or 2 sticks of 512MB? (which do you prefer? and reason?)
2. How do you know if a memory is BH-5 or BH-6 etc... (sorry for the newbie question)