Newbie Help With OC

First of all, I have been reading this forum for awhile and have gotten alot of useful info.

I am in the process of OCing my system and have a couple of questions.

System:
Shuttle AN35N-Ultra
Locked Barton XP2500+ W Stock HSF(Lapped with ASCerq)
512Mb Buffalo PC3200 CH5
Sparkle FPS350-60BT PS in Coolcases D8000 Case
80GB WD HD
CDRW
Matrox G400 Max

I am using Prime95 torture test to load system and MBM5 to monitore

I have been able to run stable at FSB of 182 with VCORE of 1.75V
Temps are: Idle Case(34), CPU 38
Load Case 41,CPU 55
Vcore 1.68-1.78

Prime 95 ram for over 5 hours at the following:
FSB of 185 with VCORE of 1.8V
Temps are: Idle Case(37), CPU 41
Load Case 42,CPU 55
Vcore 1.68-1.87

Here are my questions:
1. How accurate are the voltage readings in MBM?
2. Is the Vcore variation likely the cause for PRIME95 failing?
3. Is that Variation likely caused by the higher temp of the CPU?
I have noticed that the Vcore variation is less when I OC less and the CPU temp is lower,
4. Will a better HSF help with stabilize vcore due to the cpu running cooler?
I am thinking of getting a Thermalright(alx800,SLK800,SLK947) plus a good fan.

My goal is to get to 200Mhz FSB.

Thanks

SteveM

smarkgraf said:

Here are my questions:
1. How accurate are the voltage readings in MBM?
2. Is the Vcore variation likely the cause for PRIME95 failing?
3. Is that Variation likely caused by the higher temp of the CPU?
I have noticed that the Vcore variation is less when I OC less and the CPU temp is lower,
4. Will a better HSF help with stabilize vcore due to the cpu running cooler?
I am thinking of getting a Thermalright(alx800,SLK800,SLK947) plus a good fan.

My goal is to get to 200Mhz FSB.

Click to expand...

Hi SteveM.

Let's see here...1) MBM is as good as it gets without using a multimeter to monitor voltages. We've found that Shuttle SB61G is the best voltage configuration selection for the AN35N. 2) Maybe. Mine fluctuates at most .06V while running prime. 3) No, your temps are perfect. You might be overvolting your CPU a tad and that might account for the larger variation. 4) I don't know about that one but I do know that your current HSF will get you to 200x11 without a problem.

Post your RAM timings and your 12V reading while priming. Have you tried finding the max OC at stock Vcore?

Welcome to the Forums Steve!

Thermaltake Volcano 12 Extreme - $28.00 delivered @ AJump - Comes with fan and 2 different speed controllers - Good bang-for-the-buck - Cool and Quiet @2200rpm - Very Cool and Loud @5800rpm

Regards, Balrog

http://www.ajump.com/ajump/product.asp?dept_id=3867&pf_id=8840040&sku=99-99-99-99-99-8840040

Thanks guys. Sorry its taken so long to get back. had a hd crash on my other computer.

+12V: 11.72V- 11.97V
RAM : 11-3-3-2.5

I can up the +12 slightly, but it will also raise the other rails.

I have just installed a thermaltight ALX-800(AS Ceramique) with an Enermax UC-8FAB. Also now have an Enermax UC-12FAB in the front of the chassis. Tried a quick OC to 190fsb with 1.75, but prime failed after 1 min. I am going to let it burn in for a couple days before trying to OC and to also get a baseline. I have made soem HS's for the mosfets and have one for the SB, but have not installed.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks
Steve

Hey Steve!

Yeah the Fortron\Sparkles have 3 internal pots for adjusting the PSUs rail output. Raising the 12v rail does seem to raise the 5.0V rail as well even though it has its own pot. Industries spec allow for for +\- 5% for rail out put so as long as you don't execeed 3.47V, 5.25V , 12.60V you should be fine IMHO. My 5.0V rail runs around 5.30V but as very little draws from this rail on modern AMD rigs I don't worry about it, its been running like that for 9 monthes with no problems.

Your timings look good, try the Auto setting for VDimm rather than using an actually setting like 2.7V, mine runs up to 220FSB at this.

Your problems probably stem from the low 12V rail, anything under 11.8V seems to cause problems and when running over 200FSB I don't like to see anything below 11.9V. I personally tweak my 12V rail while running OC'd and Priming and then set it for ~12.3V under heavy load, I figure that'll give me enough extra for stability.

Mosfet and SB sinks will help, its also a good idea to remove the NB sink & get the crappy thermal tape off it, lap to ~1000grit and reapply with the thermal compund of your choice. I chose to re-install mine with insulated bolts that double as a mounting for a 40mm fan which also helps, these can be volt modded to 7V easily to reduce the noise if its a screamer, it doesn't take a lot of air to cool it once its been lapped.

Regards, Balrog

Thanks Balrog,

I am running Auto for VDimm. I will look at the rails and try to tweak the +12 tonight. I only saw one other pot in my supply. Not sure what that adjusts. Will see if I can find the other. Any suggestions for removing the NB clips? Did you use Nylon bolts/nuts? What size? I have to go to Home depot anget some other stuff tonight.

ps do you know where the temp sensors are located on the AN35N? I know the CPU is under the socket, but where are the CASE and sensor3(I think its called PWM).

Steve

Hey Steve!

The NB has to be removed from the bottom of the MoBo so you have to take it out of the case. It use plastic push pins with springs & expanding prongs like the HSF on video cards. Carefully squeeze the prongs closed with needlenosed pliers or good tweezers, then pull the pins out, be careful as the springs will sometimes make them go flying. It might be a good idea to put some electrical or masking tape around the pins to protect your Mobo, I slipped once doing this and scratched the bottom of the board, luckily I didn't cut any traces, just take your time and you'll be fine.

Once you've removed them the sink should come right off as its only on with thermal tape, if it feels kinda tight heat it with a hair dryer to soften the tape and it will come right off. Clean any residue off the NB with a Q-Tip and some Goo gone or other adhesive remover, don't use nail polish or any type of solvent or thinner as any spilled on the MoBo will melt the laquer finish that protects it. I believe I used either a 1/8" or a 4-40 steel bolts and nuts with nylon insulating washers, you can measure the size once the sink has been removed. If you don't have the 40mm fan yet but think you might get long enough bolts to reach about 1" above the top of the sink when inserted from the bottom, you can always add the fan later. If you use a MoBo tray now would be a good time to mark where the bottom of the NB area is and cut away any extra metal so that you can remove or mod the NB sink without having to take your MoBo off the tray.

Temp sensor 3 is bogus and doesn't measure anything and the PWM sensor is located back by the mosfets I believe, I'm not sure where the case sensor is.

Regards, Balrog

smarkgraf said:

ps do you know where the temp sensors are located on the AN35N? I know the CPU is under the socket, but where are the CASE and sensor3(I think its called PWM).

Steve

Click to expand...

The case sensor is located close to the top left corner of the MoBo and the PWM is about 5 or 6 inches below it. They look like LEDs that were painted green.

Yeah guys , how do u bump up the 12V rail. Mine is around 11.52 and the 5V is around 5.13. I haven't had problems yet but could it cause a problem. I look in Bios at the rails and it seems to be no way of changing them. Is it because of my PSU or am I missing something.

Your PSU has to have potentiometers inside to make the adjustments, not very many brands have these. Some older Enermax & Antecs do, TTGI\Superflowers have 2, Fortron\Sparkle, Thermaltake & PC Power & Cooling have 3.

This is a dangerous mod and voids your warranty as you have to open the PSU to do it. There are lots of things inside that can give you a nasty jolt, some enough to potentially kill you, thus this should only be undertaken by someone who knows exactly what they're doing and understands the risks involved.

If you do a bit of Google or Yahoo searching you should come up with some guides on how this is done and then decide whether you want to try it or not.

Regards, Balrog

Balrog

Thanks for the heads up. I am an electronic engineer, so I'm am familiar with whats going on in the power supply. Believe me, I am very careful. Also I voided the warrany awhile ago swapping the fan. I looked around and still could only find one pot. I adjusted it so my +12 was at +12.1, I would go higher, but the +5 is up to +5.4V. Out of the 5% supply toloerence, but within the 10% that I have seen most +5V IC's bee able to tolerate. I am trying to get to 190M fsb, with VC @ 1.8V. The VC is moving between 1.74 - 1.84. +12 is 11.91-12.16.

I also put the HS on the SB and Mosfets, but have not had a chance to pull the board and do the NB.

Steve

Hey Steve!

I have 3 Fortron PN series PSUs - 2 x 300watt and 1 x 350watt, mine all have 3 pots.

The 12V is located nearest the supply plug, the 3.3V is underneath the cable bundle where it exits the PSU and the 5.0V is hidden under where the cables attach to the PCB. A small flashlight helps as 2 of them are hard to spot. They often have a small dab of hot glue locking the pot settings, this is usually weak enough that the screwdriver turning breaks it off but one needed to be trimmed with a scapel first (with power off & unplugged )

On mine I found that they don't all raise or lower the voltage by turning in a similiar direction so be careful.

I always tune mine while running Prime at an fairly OC'd level and then set them to ~3% over default. I use MBM5 with voltage calibration set to SB61G not the default as this is much closer to a multimeter reading on my board. I have used the BIOS before but I prefer MBM5 while Priming as its more real world.

By the way I must correct myself, my 5.0V rail has been running ~5.34V for 9 monthes without issue

Regards, Balrog

Balrog

Thanks for the info on the pots. I will take a looke next time I get a chance to pull the PS. My prime 95 stress test @ 190fsb/1.8VC ran for about 15 min before failing. It used to fail within 1 min, so I am heading in the right direction.

Thanks
Steve

Hey Steve!

How have the CPU temps been running idle\load with the ALX-800?

Regards, Balrog

Hey don't know if it's been mentioned, but I believe some of the recent Prime95 builds are more tortuous(brain not working tonight) than the older ones.

Also testing on a clean system (ie. no TSRs) is recommended, and in fact you may be better off running Prime95 in Safe Mode.

Not all Bartons are created equal, but I know my CPU is 100% stable at 3200+ at 1.725v. This is on a cheap AOpen PSU. (not a rebranded Fortron/Sparkle unfortunately).

Also, be sure P95 is not failing because of your memory, rather than your CPU...

Hope I've added something useful, and not gone over other people's advice again

If I remember correctly, I am now seeing a load temp of around 40-41case/48-50cpu( where it was 42/55 before). I don't have the CPU fan turned all the way up and the I have backed off on the case fans as well. My idle temps are about the same. One thing to note is now I can run 182fsb stable at 1.725 instead of 1.75. With so many varialbles to play with, I am thinking of starting back at the defaults(once I finalize the ps adjustments) and going through it very methodically, starting with memtest.

Etherboy, I have been running prime95 with my system booted normally. Are you saying this is not a fair test of system stability?

Steve

I run the latest version of Prime and I don't do anything different to my system settings.

This isn't some benchmark like 3DMark where you try to tweak for max scores, this is to help stress test your rig in a real world environment - IMHO

I usually run Prime and MBM5 at the same time when first starting to watch for any dramatic changes in temps or voltages, after 5 minutes or so I chuck them both on the taskbar and go about my business, if its still running 12hrs later I'm reasonably happy, if its still running 24hrs later, I'm content.

As your Bartons locked I guess I'd loosen my memory timings up and start pushing the FSB starting at default settings. I usually run 2 loops of Memtest and 1/2hr of Prime before I try the next level, which is usually in steps of 5. If you recieve and error, up the VCore a notch and try again. I run my Buffalo on Auto VDimm all the way to 220FSB so I'd think you can leave set there as well to start. I believe when tested with a multimeter the Auto setting with Buffalo\Winbond gives you 2.62V.

Regards, Balrog

Well things aren't any better. I upped the +12 to its max((12.16-12.42 under load), but now the + 5 is 5.45-5.51. The only other adjustment pot I could find was for the +3.3V. at 190fsb/11-3-3-2.5/VC 1.8, it fails prime95 in 9 min. Load temp was 52 cpu/43 case before it crashed. VC ranged 1.74-1.82. Ran 2 passes of memtest 86 with no problems. I can up VC another notch since I think the temps are still ok. Will try that tomorrow.

SHould I be concerned about the +5 though? I'm thinking of dialing the supply bacK a little. I think my temps were also better with the supply lower, but I'm not sure. Other than thinking I got a Lemon CPU and or MB I'm at a loss. It is proboably my supply, but the VC is moving much more than the +12.

Steve

Hey Steve!

It depends on what you run in Prime, I run the Torture Test with the Blend setting. I've found that because its a blend some tests stress the memory which causes some small flucuation in the 3.3V rail where others work the CPU causing the 12V rail to vary.

My 5.0V rail has run ~5.35V for monthes with no issues but I think 5.45-5.51V is a bit high so I would tweak it down a bit.

Your temps do seem a bit high, mine never go above 50C under Prime, try running with the side panel off the case while Priming for some extra cooling. Have you added any sinks to your Mosfets or SB? Have you made any mods to your NB sink?

I run passive sinks on both my Mosfets and SB and I removed my NB sink got the crappy thermal tape off and lapped it to 800grit and reapplied with thermal compound. This extra cooling helps significantly, I was able to run 220FSB X 11 stabily w\o my 40mm fan on the NB but I like the added headroom by having one on there, its volt modded to 7V so its almost completely silent.

Hows your case ventilation? How many fans, intake and exhaust are you running?

Regards, Balrog

Balrog,

No NB mod yet. HS on SB attached with thermal tape. HS's on mosfets attached with thermal tape, but I think I messed them up trying to smooth out the bottom. They may not be helping, and possibly making things worse. Gonna take them off and see. I have another HS that I can cut up and try again. I couldn't find the +5 adjustment pot, but will look again, if not, will have to lower +12.

Case has 1 120mm intake(96cfm max) and 1 120mm exhaust(64cfm max) there is also an 80mm fan in the PS(32cfm). The front fan has a filter, but I have run with it both in and out. Makes no difference. I have also taped off all the extra holes in the case which I think I will open some up to see if that helps. I do see a drop of a couple of degrees with the side off.

I ran a stress test last night(185 [email protected]). It ran for almost 4 hours. I do run the blend torture test in prime95.

My CPU temp is down a few degrees from using the Stock HSF.

Steve