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temp question

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makaka

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
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i see a lot of people happy with their oc with temp about 50~51c
most of those user have abit nf7 and nf7-s i just noticed that those abit mobo read temp from the socket (not the diode)
as i know diode at 100%cpu usage has higher temp than the socket (~=10c)
that mean that their temp are about 60~61c
i am using motherboard monitor with asus mobo a7n8x mobo.
mbm can read temp from borth socket and diode.when i have posted about my diode temp is about 60c (50c for socket)a lot of people has recommanded to back down my oc due to high temp
correct me if i am wrong
the socket temp should not go abrove 50c?
thanks for help
 
your cpu temp is ok up to about 65C for an overclocked one but if u keep temps to around 50C or lower its better for stablititly for an overclocked cpu

sorry for the mis spelling :(
 
1)but 65 c is for soket or the diode?????
2)must i keep the socket or the diode temp under 50c for better stability ?
thanks
 
Since CPU temperature depends on the system ambient temperature and the power dissipation at full load, hence if system ambient temperature is higher, the CPU temperature reading would be higher, under the same amount of computing load compared to another system with better case cooling.

CPU_temperature = power_dissipation x cooling_coefficient + system_ambient_temperature

If one wants to find the actual CPU temperature increase, one would need to look at four temperature numbers

- CPU_full_load
- CPU_idle
- SYS_full_load
- SYS_idle

detailed in this link
How to read CPU temperature (page 19)

For good case cooling, SYC_full_load - SYS_idle should be at most 2 - 3 C when CPU is under full load at 2.4 - 2.6 GHz on air.

For CPU under full load, using my CPU as an example,

Tbred B 1700+ DLT3C at 2.54 GHz 1.92 V,
CPU_full_load - CPU_idle ~ 8 C
CPU_full_load - SYS_full_load ~ 20 C
dissipating power ~ 20 / .22 = 91 W

For a mobile Barton at 2.65 GHz 2.15 V,
CPU_full_load - CPU_idle ~ 12 C
CPU_full_load - SYC_full_load ~ 27 C
full load power ~ 27 / .22 = 123 W
 
Good to know, but that still doesn't answer his question - should he be using his socket temps to judge against what most people say to keep temps at here, or his diode temps?
 
Does the diode temperature track the socket temperature, i.e. does the temperature difference between full load and idle the same for the diode and and socket temperature?

If there is always about 10 C difference between the diode and socket temperature, then you may calibrate the CPU temperature based on the diode temperature reading and for power dissipation calculation.

If the diode temperature at full load reads 65 C and the system and prime95 are stable, then I would consider it OK.

If you worry about some long term effect of running at high stable temperature, you can always lower the voltage and frequency for 24/7 usage by 100 MHz.

I use CPU frequency per temperature increase such as 10 MHz / C or 30 MHz / 100 mV as break-even guideline for overclocking Trbed/Barton than an absolute degree C in temperature.

General rules on voltage and temperature for CPU overclocking (page 16)

How to determine "highest" voltage and temperature for CPU overclocking (page 16)
 
Last edited:
If you worry about some long term effect of running at high stable temperature, you can always lower the voltage and frequency for 24/7 usage by 100 MHz.

long term effect is how much ?
 
hitechjb1 said:
Effect of high Vcore and electromigration on CPU failure time

It is known that high temperature and high current (density) have adverse effect on chip behavior due to electromigration, could lead to complete chip failure (not just performance degradation per se). Electromigration may increase the resistance of metal wires and contacts inside a chip (max overclocking degradation before functional failure), and may even lead to open connections and resulted in complete chip failure.

But these are long term effect and would not happen in days or even months (see arguments below). Also the failure is statistical in nature, measured over a large sample of chips, a particular one or few chips may behave very differently within certain statistical deviation. It would not be accurate to simple put a number of max voltage on a particular chip and try to predict its life. Same like trying to put a number of max overclocking frequency on a CPU, ...

Assuming statistical failure is due to electromigration, the statistical failure rate usually measured in terms of the failure time of 50% of the population in a large sample of same chips is given by

T_failure = A exp (E / k T) / (J^2)

where A, k are constants, and E is activation energy of the material, J is current density, and T is temperature (in K). The equation is call Black's equtation and is based on empirical results. There may be some deviations from it (mainly on the exponent of J) for different material in wires and contacts, e.g. Al, Al/Cu alloy, Cu.

So put in simple terms, a rough estimtation, we can say that if

- Vcore is increased by 10%, on the average, the current density in the wires inside a chip would be increased by 10% (assume uniformly distributed current density), keeping temperature the same, so the failure time would be shorten by 17%. So

A 10% increase in Vcore, would shorten the failure time to 83% of nominal failure time.
A 20% increase in Vcore, would shorten the failure time to 69% of nominal failure time.
A 30% increase in Vcore, would shorten the failure time to 59% of nominal failure time.
A 50% increase in Vcore, would shorten the failure time to 44% of nominal failure time.

- An increase of temperature by 20 C over nominal max temperature would roughly result in doubling the electromigration rate, hence shortening the failure time to 50%. But that is measured by the temperature over the max temperature specification (above 85 C), which is not likely to happen in daily overclocking.


E.g. for a TBred B DLT3C, from the estimate, increase Vcore from 1.5 V to 1.95 V (a 30% increase) would shorten the statistical chip failure time defined above to 59%. This number is still in the ranges of 5+ years, assuming the nominal life expectancy of the chip is 10+ years.

Based on the above, if the numbers stand, one can pick and chose the max voltage and max overclocking frequency to trade with the life expectancy of a CPU.


The above only discussed the long term failure rate or life expectancy issues related to electromigration, but the question about short term degradation related to high voltage (if there is any) remains open.

This above post put some guideline relationship between higher voltage and temperature on expected life expectancy.

From the AMD tech doc for model 8 and model 10, the max die temperature is 85 C.
QUOTE from AMD doc,
"Thermal design power represents the maximum sustained power dissipated while executing publicly-available software or instruction sequences under normal system operation at nominal VCC_CORE . Thermal solutions must monitor the temperature of the processor to prevent the processor from exceeding its maximum die temperature."


Since we don't have the data about how long the life expectancy (an average number) of a certain CPU at certain voltage and temperature, so making some ASSUMPTIONS, say it is 10 years at nominal voltage 1.5 V and nominal temperature of 65 C (20 C lower than the max die temperature specification).

Now if the CPU is running at 1.8 V and 65 C, compared to the reference life expectancy number, it is 20% higher in voltage and temperature is within the reference temperature, so the life expectancy would decrease to 69%.

But if the 10 years assumption is for 1.5 V and 45 C, then it is 20% higher in voltage and 20 C higher in temperature, then the life expectancy would decrease to 34.5% (69% due to voltage and then 50% due to temperature).

These numebrs should be used as a guideline and not be taken as absolute as there are other factors that can affect the outcome. For details, these are the links discussing the effect of voltage, temperature, .... on CPU due to electromigration, ....

Effect of high Vcore and electromigration on CPU failure time (page 15)

Effect of high Vcore and electromigration on expected failure time for Tbred B/Barton (page 15)

What could damage a chip/CPU permanently? (page 15)
 
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