future project

Some time ago i had posted that i was going to start a very fancy computer case, it looks like that time is drawing near, so i want to start alot of research.


I probably will not actually start the physical case for another year, but plan on getting everything in order this year, so that i run into little to no problems with the actual case. I will be making a website and this case will be one of the projects in it.


the case i want to build will have 4 compressors, 3 of which will be a cascade, the 4th will cool the ambient temp for all components other than drives.


The really fancy thing i want to do is submerge the motherboard, psu, and all the motherboards components in flourinert, in order to improve heat transer, and to remove all water from the atmosphere around the computer.

I have been reserching a little bit on cascade, and have desided this:

For the 1st stage : 410A
For the 2nd stage : 50 or 1150
for the 3rd stage : 50 or ( I wana experiment, and use LN2 )

My question is: I know that i would have a hard time jumping from 410a to 50, should i add another stage, and go 410a, 1150, 50, then LN2? Or, will LN2 never work as a refriderant, Is there something i dont know about LN2, like its very corrosive, or reacts with oil? If so, would it be better to go 410a, 1150, 50.


Any advise would be appriciated.

EDIT:

If LN2 wouldnt work, but if someone could tell me how to cool helium enouth to the point that it would become liquid, that would be cool too =) very very cool!!!

Which is cooler, LN2 or Helium, helium right? Would LN2 work as a stage to cool the helium?

Uh. What?

Have fun blowing yourself and your house up.

Seriously, it doesn't sound like you know what you are doing. Phase change systems are highly pressurized. A single stage is dangerous enough as it is, but a 3 stage?

Leave cascades to the professionals unless you have a death wish.

Why not try a safer hobby, like firework making?

I have seen a few systems with 3 stages. And they work really good. Just do some research on them. There is a guy over at phase-change.com that can help you alot.

Lotec25

Chris_F, check this link out :

http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=618&s=1

Look " Professional "?


He managed to hit -111c



Yes, i am aware of the dangers of phase change. A compressor can turn gas into liquid, and they can turn liquid into millions of shards of steel flying extremely fast, but with the proper care, they are safe. Just like an oxy / acetylene torch " which, i do use often ". With proper safety guidelines, can be safe. That is why i research stuff first, thats why i go to professionals first, thats why i ask questions first, so i dont blow myself up, but thanks for caring anyways .

All I'm saying is that it takes more then a little "research" to build a cascade. A cascade isn't just something you decide to build one day. You better be damn good at refrigeration. That means you need to be a "professional."

With things like LN2 and He your in big trouble if the condenser ever warms up. That means if something goes wrong and the 1st or 2nd stage fails and you didn't intend it to, your in big trouble.

EDIT: And Lotec25, I can't believe your encouraging him to build a cascade. This is serious here. This is how people get hurt or worse.

It's OK to encourage him to learn as much as he can and maybe one day build a single stage, but anything more is just unhealthy.

I don't know if he spends much time around these forums but look for a guy named Captaincascade.

Of course he'll do tons of research, but he's not going to take this project with a grain of salt, oh and don't tell him its impossible or he won't be able to do it. (haha maybe the LN2 thing will be next to impossible, but still)...seems like when new ppl post about what they're trying to do people are like, "oh god you won't be able to do that"....makes me mad.

Go to phase-change.com, sign up for the forums, and become gary's friend. You'll see his posts everywhere, he has this little avatar thing in his sig that you can't miss. Anyway you'll get some good help over there. Oh and he'll tell you to check out refridgerationbasics.com or somethin.

Good luck and I can't wait to hear more on your design.

If by "tons of research" you mean "years of research" then OK. Otherwise all I can say is I warned you.

dont use ln2
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33516

you can use methane or something

but please, build some single stages first
do you even have the necessary tools/knowledge?

Ah, thank you solo. The one person who isn't crazy.

I have a vacuum pump, guages/regulators, tourch, and lots and lots of experience brazing / soldering. The compressor on my car recently locked up, and i bought/replaced everything in it, charged it, and it works. Granted, thats nothing like building everything yourself, it is a good first experience with this sort of thing.

I know, in a car the cap-tube size, compressor, evap/condensor size, and everything are all pre-determaned by your make/model of car, but it was a good learning experience for me.

and Chris_F, im not going outside, finding 3 random broken window units, tearing them apart, tying them together, and charging them. I know there is a whole lot involved, you have oil seperators, you have to pick the right refriderants, you have to have the equipment, make heat extanger, determane proper cap length, size, proper oils, proper compressors, and much much more. Believe me, before i actually start buying stuff, i will do my research.


PS: thanks for all the advise, i did ask for it didnt i?

unless your a certified tech in USA u r NOT gonna be able to buy any of these refrigerants/parts. I AM a certified tech & have made cascade sytems for commercial testing facilites & you can ruin alot of expensive equipment. Singapore may have more relaxed laws concerning what u can buy w/o certification.

you can buy from techs if you know the right people

dude that one guy built a custom dual cascade system that hit -111C with NO HVAC experience. Granted he must have had help....its not impossible. My rig is soon to be gassed up and it has already been tested with nitrogen to check for leaks (none by the way) It's a direct die system, 1/5hp, R404a, and a custom evap all totalling nearly 250 in total cost.

And guess what......I have ZERO HVAC experience, lol and guess what's next...cascade style.

Someone: GO FOR IT!

and be sure to lookup CC, PCice, chilly1, herefishy and all the others who have done these systems successfully. good luck and keep us posted

thanks for the support guys


Again, its still some time off, because i have to pay legal fees first, and get other things taken care of, but i am sure much more support will come once i have my website done because i will have every length of every pipe measured and documented in the site before i even start buying the stuff. I will have the entire system built on paper before i start it, because thats how i do things...


Once i have that done, people will see if it will/wont work, and let me know then. It is possible, even with never working with HVAC before, as long as you do intense research, and use your brain.

I know i started this thread badly " the whole ln2 thing " But in theory, it would work, and thats all i was asking, if it is possible, if not, why? seriously, methane, propane are both dangerous too but they can be used. I wouldnt even consider acetylene because it can combust without oxygen when compressed without being dissolved in acetone. will nitrogen do the same thing even without oxygen? Most gasses, are very safe, when removed from oxygen, most everything requires oxygen to burn, some things dont. Anyways, im babbling now.

Anyways, thanks for the support guys

propane is r290, and it is a lower pressure refrigerant
yes it is flammable, but a lot of people use it as a replacement for r22 or r134a

and uh chiefscout
the person you are talking about, lardarse, almost killed himself when he didn't use a pressure regulator on his big tank of r1150 ethylene

im not saying hes stupid or anything, but he obviously wasn't careful

you need time and practice

and sneakyfart, do you know what you are telling him to do?

speak sense

solo said:

and sneakyfart, do you know what you are telling him to do?

Click to expand...

all i did was encourage him try it, a couple months back i read a post here by Nunez1980? he'd just built a phase change setup from the ground up and i thought if he can do that so can i, and i did just that built one from the ground up that is. prior to reading that post i had absolutly NO HVAC knowledge whatsoever and didnt know a cap tube from a dryer. i just tonite filled my dual evap system w/r22 and ill be "tuning" it over the next few days with help from people that encourge others to delve into the unknown. the learning curve is steep but if you take the time to LEARN, ask questions, use common sense and follow good safety procedures all will be well.

grats sneakyfart, im waiting on a set of gauges and vac. pump so i can fill up my system with r404a

dual blocks are impressive, very nice


but seriously, this guy has no experience at all, is asking if Ln2 can be used in the 4th stage, and wants to build a 4stage cascade?

come on, at least a single stage first

im not discouraging anybody, just speaking the truth

Yea everyone is allways negative. You dont know what the guy can do maybe he is a chemical eng or has a degree in nuclear phy who knows. Yes he needs to read on it and find out what has to be done. But i dont think it would take years. The only reason i have not started building one is becasue i need some more money. You never know what someone can do until they do it.

Lotec25

Lotec25 said:

You dont know what the guy can do maybe he is a chemical eng or has a degree in nuclear phy who knows.

Click to expand...

that doesn't qualify you for anything in regards to HVAC. Anyway, they aren't negative, but going from and air (maybe water) cooling system to 4 stage cascade is asking for trouble imo. I do think, like others, that he should start with a single-stage (that will give very good temp btw) and then see if he feels likes going in the big 3 stage league
Seriously Someone, to me it will make a lot more senses if you were to try your hand on a single-phase first, learning to fine tune, charge and troubleshoot those kind of systems with a single-phase than jump right off at the higher lvl.