Complete Submersion, using water/r134a

Hey,

I was just browsing, and i figured i would post the project that my friend and I are working on..i would love any comments or suggestions about it..and will post pictures later.


1) Will design a case with multiple chambers,
-Power Supply Chamber
-5 1/4" Drive Bay Chamber
-3 1/2" Drive/HDD Bay Chamber
-Finally, a sealed off chamber for the motherboard


2) Design an external box that'll be sealed which is filled with r134a, and copper coil running the water from the case, through the r134a, then back into the case.

3) I hope to use no fans, but one may be needed to keep the r134a cool..thats the only thing up for debate..whether it'll be needed to cool the r134a, or if it'll stay cool on it's own? Any idea?

4) The motherboard will be COMPLETELY submerged in the distilled water..yea, sounds bad ..but the motherboard is being modded with silicone where all electrical circuits will be out of reach of the water..where only the top of the chipset, cpu, and gpu will be revealed completely to the water..IE massive massive direct cooling


Tell me what you think,


-Kyle

The r134a needs to go through a phase change for it to take on heat.
It needs to be compressed to a high pressure liquid and then it needs to be sent to some sort of evaporatore where it can become a low pressure vapor. as it does it will "evoparate" (boil) taking the heat from the substance around it.

knrenfrow said:

Tell me what you think,

Click to expand...

I think you need to read up on this stuff alittle bit more and then use something you dont mind getting destroyed.

: ) :

Your idea is interesting but you certainly need to understand the principals of phase change cooling and refrigerants. Here are some links
www.phase-change.com www.refrigerationbasics.com

Secondly the nb and cpu are not the only tings that put out heat. Essentially evey chip in a motherboard of which there are 70 or so will put out heat. This includes sata controllers souythbridges and mosfets or voltage regulators only to name a few. If these items were covered in silicone your motherboard would quickly die. Not to mention how capacitors would react to being covered in silicone.

In short your idea would be virtually unusable though interesting. I would guess that the net gain if you were to pull it off would be very little over standard watercooling and negative compared to vapor phase cooling. Also note that you would most likely kill some part of your system very quicky.

DO NOT USE WATER!!! instead use oil of the one very expensive non conductive liquids made by either GE or 3M (?not sure?)

3M makes HFE - - hydrofluroether...i think that's how it's spelled...lol....just remember HFE...heh It costs $500 per gallon but is non-conductive when it comes to electricity, but it conducts heat better than using oil.

Okay, forget about the r134a for a second, if i use water..

The water would pump out of the case, cooled, then pumped back in...what would be the BEST way to make the water, literally, ice cold?

I know, water isn't a good idea, but the water won't touch anything but the chipset, cpu..don't worry about that..i'm building a plexi "case" around the motherboard..but there will then be constructed holes around the cpu and chipset for the water to touch without harming anything else..and to avoid overheating other necessary parts..there will be a plexi "air tunnel" with a 60mm exhaust fan, then an addition 60 mm intake fan..

The idea is basically, there will be a case, INSIDE a case..IE the motherboard having it's own "case" with access points for the water to touch the cpu, and chipset..we began constructing the case last night, and its going smoothly..basically right now i just need help on what would be a VERY cheap, but VERy efficient way to make the water that is being pumpted out of the case..ICE COLD, before being pumped back in..any ideas?


Thanks!

OH!

Forgot to say, i have about 288oz of r134a..lol..so, if i could use that in some case to cool the water to EXTREMELY low temps..that'd be useful

Also, i like the idea of phase change..i'd like to incorporate it in someway..but, i'd rather not buy enough r134a to fill the case completely ..i could come up w/ a compressor, and evaporatore from an old ac unit easy enough..so give me any ideas you got, i'd love to post a successful project like so on ocforums..

Thanks

Why would water be bad? Pure water doesn't conduct so as long as nothing is dissolving into it (sealed system should not be dissolving anything new into it) then it shouldn't be a problem

Water does conduct electricity whether its pure or not. Water is not a good idea it will not work. You will kill your system. i can not emphasize thius enough. As your idea stands it will not work. If you want to submerse in a liquid it either needs to be fourinart from 3m which costs 500 a gallon or pure mineral oil which contains no petroleum base. However pure mineral oil is difficult to find and is probably relatively expensive compared to water. As far as the use of phase change to chill the water look at my previous post and follow the links. If you use water pure or distilled you will kill you board and probably your cpu sooner or later.

snvpa said:

Water does conduct electricity whether its pure or not. Water is not a good idea it will not work. You will kill your system. i can not emphasize thius enough. As your idea stands it will not work. If you want to submerse in a liquid it either needs to be fourinart from 3m which costs 500 a gallon or pure mineral oil which contains no petroleum base. However pure mineral oil is difficult to find and is probably relatively expensive compared to water. As far as the use of phase change to chill the water look at my previous post and follow the links. If you use water pure or distilled you will kill you board and probably your cpu sooner or later.

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Pure water is a very very poor conductor. It is considered an insulator. Not until you start doing things do it will it conduct (like dissovle salt into it)

http://www.snopud.com/?page=468
http://global.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_03.htm
http://www.seps.org/oracle/oracle.archive/Physical_Science.Physics/2003.05/001053577348.26928.html
http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/waterelectret.html

Water in direct contact is a bad idea.

Lets see, every greasy fingerprint you leave has some salt in it. A tiny amount, but more than enough to start the corrosion process. Not to mention all the other contaminants on the board.

If you really want to kill a computer doing this, grab a 486 for $10 and kill that. At least it's cheap.

pure water could work, but you can never get pure water.

it will come in contact with the motherboard, your fingerprints left on the inside of the case, you can't keep it completely air tight.

the water will become contaminated in no time and will kill yoiur computer..

: ) :

The motherboard is NOT going to be in direct contact with the motherboard, it'll be sorrounded by an additional case inside the main case, and there will be squares cut out..ands silicone sealed, which will just leave the cpu and chipset heatsink exposed to the water....but listen:

Okay, i have the case filled w/ water..then i have my phase change system (jacked an ac unit from landfill last night, and fixed it, works POIFECT )..well i'm going to have the copper piping with the low pressure r134a running through it (extremley cold), running through the water in the case in coils..IE drastically dropping the temp of the water to freezing points, hopefully..

This may sound lame, but over time..the water in the case would turn to ice, leaving my case as a huge icecube basically, so there would basically be ice sealed directly around the cpu and chipset..now how nice would that be!?!?!


lol, may sound dumb, but i have been doing much research..i think this'll be a success, if i follow all precautions..and keep taking suggestions from you guys

Post any suggestions freely, Thanks!


-Kyle

okay now that you explained more it sounds... interesting(to say the least)

just wondering how you're going to make the container. materials? all that what not.

go for it

: ) :

knrenfrow said:

This may sound lame, but over time..the water in the case would turn to ice, leaving my case as a huge icecube basically, so there would basically be ice sealed directly around the cpu and chipset..now how nice would that be!?!?!

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Hmm. That sounds like a recipe for crushed components and a bulging, broken case. Ice EXPANDS.

Better to use something that does not freeze solid or corrode your components.. but that gets back to mineral oil or flourinet.

Not sure the solid ice would work well. Even if your computer still worked after turning into a block, the cpu would melt and then vaporise the ice right next to it and teh steam would at the very least make a nice little explosion as it shattered the block of ice and snapped components in half.

Keep working at it though... no progress is every made without trying odd things, and even failures can teach you things.

So you are sayingt o run everclear through that?

Thanks for the comments,

The case, is simply plexi glass (doesn't allow condensation), aluminum side tracking (used to hold peices together)..epoxy glued, then sealed with 9 INCHES of silicone..lol not really 9 inches, but you get the point ...about the whole ice expanding,

This is why there will be empty air space at the top, the ice necessarily doesn't have to expand sideways, it'll simply go where free space is..IE, the ice would simply expand upward..holding the same width, therefore it wouldn't crack anything..

To imagine what i'm saying, think of if you put a water bottle in the freezer, you leave the cap off, to prevent cracking the bottle..and you'll notice that the ice will sometimes pop out the top (depending on the amount of water of course)

The water vapor causing an explosion is quite interesting though, i could get around that though? I could simply have a breather tube..that is basically resting on the cpu..and once the ice block is formed..the breather tube (copper, i guess), would be there..and when the vapor is formed..it would simply flow out through the breather tube..which could lead up to the top, or w/e..

The vapor may not even be formed, but the breather tube could be installed for precaution..remember, a copper tube covered with frost is going to be running all throughout the ice block..therefore keeping the ice, ICE..

One question, can ice get cold enough that it cracks? I don't think so, but would be a good thing to concider

Oh, and the rusting..that won't be a problem..i could simply put an aluminum plate over the cpu, chipset, and gpu? All the other compnents will be sealed into a plexi box, which will have its cooling by two fans..intake, and exhaust..


Any questions, comments?