Ti 4200 or 8500?

[NinjaZX6R]

Considering both cards in the 128mb category.

I really have no idea which would be better. All the 8500 reviews I read are very outdated....probably because the card is :)

It's for my backup computer?

I'd love to get everyone's two cents please :)

-Collin-

[cack01]

The 4200 will beat the 8500 handsdown.

[Supertrucker]

the ti4200 is a little faster, and costs a little more, i wouldnt pay more than 40~50 shipped for a used 8500 or 4200,

[LogRus]

Originally posted by cack01
The 4200 will beat the 8500 handsdown.


I second this.

And here's VGA Charts from December 2003:
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-03.html#unreal_tournament_2003

[Vertical_Zer0]

Definately the ti4200, especially given that most of them can overclock to ti4600 speeds!

[NinjaZX6R]

Originally posted by Vertical_Zer0
Definately the ti4200, especially given that most of them can overclock to ti4600 speeds!

are you serious??? overclock to ti4600 speeds??? That would be awesome. I can afford either.

What are the differences, besides clock speeds, between the 4200 and the 4600???

-Collin-

[Vertical_Zer0]

Sure I'm serious. Stock ti4200's are 250/500, while the ti4600 is at 300/650. It looks like most cards get to around 290/600... but you should ask a ti4200 expert about that. Other than this, I don't think there are any differences. Does anyone know if the ti4200 contains less pipelines or anything?

[NinjaZX6R]

Yes, the pipelines was what i was wondering about.

A 9600XT runs faster clocks than the 9800 pro...but is not as good. Is this the same case?

How about the overclocking on the ancient 8500???

-Collin-

[Yuriman]

I actualy like my old R8500 better than my friends' Ti. The 8500 has a bit better image quality and takes much less performance hit with AA and AF on. At stock the 8500 gets around 10,000 3dmarks, and usualy overclock to the 11,500 range. My old one did 335/330, getting nearly 13,000 marks w/o volt mods. Ask oc550 what the average Ti gets, as I dont know offhand, but it is a bit higher. I only use the Ati because I have been spoiled by good image quality, and I can never go back.

[Vertical_Zer0]

True, but at this point in time I doubt he will be using AA or AF on any semi-current games, so I wouldn't include that in your purchasing decision. The difference in image quality, however, is negligible in my experience. The real image quality issues arise in the FX series, not so much in the GF4's.

[cack01]

All the TI series have the same number of pipelines, the difference is strickly mhz. Most every 4200 can get core speeds upto 295-315 and memory upto around 575-610. Not quite to 4600 speeds, but with stock cooling what more could you ask for?

[Vertical_Zer0]

Yeah, I thought they all had the same pipelines. So has anyone made their ti4200's memory go up to ti4600 speeds here?

[NinjaZX6R]

Man....buying a midrange card is more difficult than buying the top of the line! I just bought a 9800 pro...done...easy. Now, I want the best card for the value, now THAT takes some research. Thanks for the input though guys!

-Collin-

[Vertical_Zer0]

No problem, that's what we are here for!

[Amourek]

Most TI4200 128MB (AGP4x) cards are clocked at 250/444 but usually comes with with 4ns memory capable 500.

[Vertical_Zer0]

Oh yes I forgot to mention that most of the 128mb ti4200's have slightly lower memory speeds at stock. Speaking of which, didn't most people have better performance with the 64mb version anyway?

[tekOC]

I prefer ATI so I'd go with the 8500

But I have owned an TI4200 128mb by MSI till a few months ago, card performed pretty damn good.... Scored around 10k with no OC on the vid card, Omega drivers and AMDXP@2.2ghz or was it 2.0ghz, not sure.

Still, the 8500 has better IQ from what I hear

[TruckyJ]

The TI 4200 is faster for gaming, no doubt. The only reason to get a 8500/9100 over a TI4200 is the lower price. I would compare the 8500/9100 series more to the geforce 3's in terms of speed.

If your just on a budget and you want a cheap card that is capable of doing some gaming and has good image quality than the 8500/9100 presents itself as a much more attractive choice.

[Overclocker550]

a stock ti4200 will match or beat a radeon 8500 overclocked to insane speeds of 325MHz. dont let others tell you otherwise, I have owned both and I can tell you right now that going from my ti4200 to the 8500 was a huge downgrade. my 8500 is just sitting, gathering dust. I will use it for 3dmarks when I get an a64 but my ti4200 will be used for much higher 3dmarks and to run doom3 and hl2 when they come out. as for whoever broke 13k on his 8500 at 330MHz, I easily get mid 13k with my ti4200 at STOCK with a slower cpu than hes got LOL. the chance of a radeon 8500 beating a ti4200 is as good as the chances of a ti4200 beating a 9800 pro

[TruckyJ]

Originally posted by Vertical_Zer0
Speaking of which, didn't most people have better performance with the 64mb version anyway?

Generally the memory is faster, and they generally get better 3dmark scores.

However, for actual gaming, 128mb is advantageous with more recent games such as UT2k4. Recents games have textures that are larger than 64mb, and perform better on 128mb cards as a result. I saw this using my 64mb 8500le compared to a friends 128mb version. I was able to get 1500 more 3dmarks. But when it came to gaming, his card was able to run higher textures without a performance hit. Using system ram and sending data through the AGP bus sucks, and the result is a good sized performance hit.

If you game, get a 128mb card. If you like looping 3dmark and feeling good about your score, get a 64mb card.

[NinjaZX6R]

I guess this is somewhat off topic, but would an FX 5200 beat the Ti 4200?

[TruckyJ]

Originally posted by NinjaZX6R
I guess this is somewhat off topic, but would an FX 5200 beat the Ti 4200?

No. I have never seen a circumstance where it was faster than a TI 4200. The 5200 ultra is on a rare occasion close in terms of performance, but the 5200 non ultra shows very poor results. Check this tom's hardware review out to compare all of your options.

http://www17.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-03.html#unreal_tournament_2003

[Chowdy]

Originally posted by NinjaZX6R
I guess this is somewhat off topic, but would an FX 5200 beat the Ti 4200?

Never.

[NinjaZX6R]

OK, well I found an abit ti-4200 for 66 dollars on newegg. Can't beat that....I think I will go for it.

Thanks much for all the help...forums are great!

-Collin-

[Overclocker550]

Originally posted by NinjaZX6R
I guess this is somewhat off topic, but would an FX 5200 beat the Ti 4200?


I heard it can with aa/af at 640x480 cause the ti4200 uses the slow supersampling method. still who cares, 640x480 is garbage no matter how much aa/af you throw at it. the ti4200 is way faster in everything else. most people consider the fx5200 like an mx440 with dx8 and minimial dx9 support.

[stratcatprowlin]

Originally posted by Overclocker550



I heard it can with aa/af at 640x480 cause the ti4200 uses the slow supersampling method. still who cares, 640x480 is garbage no matter how much aa/af you throw at it. the ti4200 is way faster in everything else. most people consider the fx5200 like an mx440 with dx8 and minimial dx9 support.

Yes,and the 440 still winds up being faster because it because it doesnt support dx8 and 9.

I would rather run a 440 than a 5200 that is so slow because it tries to support dx8 and 9.

The TI4200 does have some fast horses under the hood.
My stock combo of an xp2500 and the 4200 hit 11.4k on 3d2k1.

Then with overclocking? Man you would be hard pressed to find a card twice the price to match it.

[NinjaZX6R]

thats it.....*busts out his credit card*

[ElectroX]

http://www.3dvelocity.com/reviews/gf4ti4200/gf4.htm

[Overclocker550]

Originally posted by ElectroX
http://www.3dvelocity.com/reviews/gf4ti4200/gf4.htm

good review, the ti4200 owns the radeon across the board and back then it was the same price too! also he was badly cpu limited. with my cpu, the ti4200 is MUCH further ahead because its a superior card over the radeon 8500.


"The two Geforce solutions seem to have a clear edge in this highly CPU intensive benchmark. All cards seem rather CPU limited at the first three resolutions but the Ti's show their high resolution dominance at 1600 x 1200. The Radeon is left behind managing a respectable fifty four frames a second but it's not enough to outpace the Ti4200."

he even pointed out he was cpu limited! I could stick a 9800 pro in there and gain very little over my ti4200 but if I stick both cards in a 3GHz a64(a year from now) the 9800 pro would be way ahead. I have not squeeze all out from my ti4200 yet, but my 8500 is maxed out and scales much less with additional cpu clocks but the ti4200 keeps going on strong!

[Robbie]

Originally posted by Vertical_Zer0
Yeah, I thought they all had the same pipelines. So has anyone made their ti4200's memory go up to ti4600 speeds here?

If I remember correctly, the 4400 did 4600 speeds alot easier than the 4200's did.
But I could be wrong.
Rob

[Pake]

My vote would be the MSI 4200ti 128mb if you are able to find it. Most clock at around 300/600 (mine is, but I've never taken the time to max out the OC, so it could be even higher).



Originally posted by NinjaZX6R
I guess this is somewhat off topic, but would an FX 5200 beat the Ti 4200?
Although people have already told you, I'll stick in some personal experience.

My friend was using a GF2 MX and he wanted a new card that didn't cost much. He decided on the 5200FX, because you'd assume it would be almost the performance of a 4200ti. Well, that's wrong. In fact, I had to remove the 5200FX and give him my old GF2 64mb card so he could play SWG at decent frame rates. He know runs games with higher FPS than he did with the 5200fx, which means 1 thing, the 5200fx is roughly the same as a GF2 MX.

[Overclocker550]

he must have gotten the 64 bit verson of the fx5200 whose bandwith was less than a ddr geforce2 but still owns a geforce2mx

[Pake]

Originally posted by Overclocker550
he must have gotten the 64 bit verson of the fx5200 whose bandwith was less than a ddr geforce2 but still owns a geforce2mx

Was a 128mb.

[NinjaZX6R]

OK, last question....

I found an FX5600 card on newegg refurb....

Would that be better than a ti4200?

-Collin-

[Vertical_Zer0]

Appearantly so. It's quite a bit better with AA/AF (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1933&p=24).

Also, it seems better without AA/AF (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1933&p=23).

Here's the whole review:http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1933&p=1

By the way, you might want to take into account that the FX5600 supports DX9 and the ti4200 is only a DX8 card.

[stratcatprowlin]

Originally posted by Vertical_Zer0
Appearantly so. It's quite a bit better with AA/AF (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1933&p=24).

Also, it seems better without AA/AF (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1933&p=23).

Here's the whole review:http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1933&p=1

By the way, you might want to take into account that the FX5600 supports DX9 and the ti4200 is only a DX8 card.

The links u gave all refer to the 5600ultra.

The regular 5600 doesnt come close to the 4200.

[Vertical_Zer0]

Oops. I wasn't sure if he was referring to an FX5600ultra or a normal, so I just automatically assumed ultra... sorry for the mistake!

[stratcatprowlin]

Not a problem, good research on the 5600u.

[NinjaZX6R]

unfortunately, I was talking about the normal 5600...

I am ordering the ti4200 from newegg now. It is the special overclocked version from abit, which runs at ti4400 speeds. I really think I would be hard pressed to find a better card for 66 bucks!

-Collin-

[stratcatprowlin]

Great choice! fantastic!

[NinjaZX6R]

IM EXCITED! Have you guys heard of this card?

It even comes with an all copper heatpipe heatsink stock!

I read the reviews and its core can clock at about 315mhz, while memory can run about 600mhz....

What a steal!

-Collin-

[Vertical_Zer0]

That's interesting; I had no idea that any mainstream vedors such as Abit sold overclocked cards. Nice deal!

[NinjaZX6R]

Yeah, it's clocked at 275/550...which is Ti4400 speeds.

Take a look at it...isn't it beautiful? :D

http://www.digital-daily.com/documents/3361/abit-siluro-gf4-ti4200.jpg

HERE (http://www.digital-daily.com/video/abit-ti4200-8x/) is a review for it.

-Collin-

[Overclocker550]

thats a sweet card but its got tsop ram, not bga

[Vertical_Zer0]

Whoa! That's a pretty hefty cooling solution for a ti4200! You should be able to do some of your own overclocking on that :)

I hope you enjoy your purchase!

[NinjaZX6R]

Thanks guys.

I did read that one of the downfall is the TSOP ram....

To be honest, I have never heard of it. Is that a brand...or a type? What is the difference between that and BGA?

-Collin-

[stratcatprowlin]

I want one now!

[NinjaZX6R]

New egg link if you are serious...

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-123-120R&depa=99

[stratcatprowlin]

Originally posted by NinjaZX6R
New egg link if you are serious...

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=14-123-120R&depa=99

I cant beleive this! TX!

[Vertical_Zer0]

Okay well all I could find out was that BGA ram can reach higher clock speeds (this means more overclocking) than TSOP. Also, BGA is appearantly square in shape while TSOP is rectangular. There also appears to be a difference in how they are attached to the actual video card that changes heat output or something like that.

[TruckyJ]

Sweet card and great buy!

All of the "Otes" cards are pretty sweet. Are you going to overclock it higher than thier approved 4400 speed clocks? I would :D .

Let us know how you like it!

[NinjaZX6R]

OF COURSE I WILL!

I will do a few before and after tests to let you all know.

Man, what a great budget card!

-Collin-

[Dogisblue]

or you could go for one of those 4800ti jobbies that were
bandied about when 8xAgp was introduced. Most of them,
if not all are 4400 clocked core, and will comfortably clock
to 4600ti speeds. If lucky, they will go beyond..

[NinjaZX6R]

i dont think i could have found a ti4800se for 60 bucks....

i already ordered mine.

-Collin-