Magnetic interference from Eheim 1048 w/pics

[mudguts]

Just got done doing alot of modding to my case and had to relocate my pump because of the ductwork I installed. Thought I found a real cool spot to place it, even used stainless thumbscrews in back to hold it place. I was much pleased and finally close to firing it up when member Phlubb alerted me to the possibility of magnetic interference as a result of it being so close to my processor. I had thought of this briefly but shrugged it off because I have this thick block of copper over my processor! So maybe that will be safe but what about the MB? Phlubb suggested I test my pump by running it near my monitor and sure enough it has a field that's strength is directly proportional to the distance the pump is from the monitor. I used a side panel from a ATX case and placed it in between the pump/monitor and it cut down drastically on the inteference but there was still some there. I was thinking of either making a metal sheild to place between the pump and processor or just mounting it on the ceiling of my case. What does everybody think? :(

[Colin]

Wow that sure beats my case of the magnetic jitters! I had a conversation with an engineer that specializes in magnetic shielding for aerospace industry. His suggestions follow.

Build a grounded shield of 16 gage cold rolled steel to encase the pump. Leave a 1/2 to 5/8 inch gap between the pump and the shield. If this does not solve the problem a second shield of Mu metal can be placed around the steel shield. The gap should be 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch between the shields. BTW, Mu metal is very expensive, I know you don't want to but I would look into relocating the pump. My guess is the field coming our of the end is messing with your video card, not the CPU.

[mudguts]

Heres a pic of the entire case and the smaller Eheim 1046 that I used for a few months with no trouble. Notice how close it was to the motherboard...I had no troubles with this setup. For those who dont know...the 1046 is only slightly smaller than the 1048 and even uses the same mounting base.

[Ridenow]

My thought is that you will have to relocate the pump anyway. With the intake nozzle pointed down and the pump being above the resiviour it will be difficult to fill and will make the pump work hard to suck the water up. Also if you get an air bubble, there goes your flow. That pump can not pump air and in that configuration would be very suseptible to air bubbles in the line. The pump would keep going, but the water would not be moving.
Yes, that would be a cool place to mount the pump, but I am doubtful how well it works.

[mudguts]

The pump is actually below the reservoir and the lines would be hooked up the same way as in the old pic. You can just see the bottom of my reservoir on top the p/s. When I ran it that way , it bled itself through the reservoir and worked great.

[Über~PhLuBB]

I think the location of the smaller 1046 is much better than where you have (had?) the 1048 mounted. Now that you know about how far out the magnetic field eminates, you can adjust the mounting of your pump accordingly. From the first picture, it looks like you're pointing the "top" of the pump towards the monitor, If you can scoot your intake fan/radiator back a few inches, you could wedge the pump as shown below:

[Über~PhLuBB]

Or here:
(You'd need an elbow on the rear connector)

[phantom punisher]

Originally posted by PhLuBB
Or here:
(You'd need an elbow on the rear connector)
my gosh you are good with the graphics!. those pictures are great and booba fett rules!

[Über~PhLuBB]

Originally posted by phantom punisher

my gosh you are good with the graphics!. those pictures are great and booba fett rules!

Thanks, but that's not nessecarily Boba Fett's ship. =) It's just a Mandal Motors Firespray class patrol craft, which also happens to be Boba Fett's personal ship (Although heavily modified)

[Overload]

i have heard that aluminum foil might work for this

[Colin]

Aluminum won't do a thing with a magnetic field.

[Crazy Jayhawk]

This might be the best way to cut interference. Put the pump as far away from the major electronics as you can, and then fabricate some kind of metal hood to put over it (with holes for the hoses and power cord).

[Patchmaster]

I'm certainly not an expert at this, but are you sure the pump will cause problems with the motherboard? Monitors are extremely sensitive to magnetic fields, particularly at the lower refresh rates. You've got electrons flying through the air just waiting for their path to be diverted by a magnetic field. The CPU and the rest of the electronics in the computer should be much less susceptible to magentic interference. The electrons are moving only very short distances and their path of travel is rather limited. Personally, I'd be more concerned about the hard drive than the CPU. If the CPU was that sensitive to magnetic fields, those high speed cooling fans would wreak havoc. Stick one of those Delta fans in front of your monitor and see what happens.

[Colin]

Take a look at the orientation of the pump. The strong magnetic field at the end of the pump is aimed directly at the output of the video card. I am not a betting man but I would lay odds on this is the problem area.

[Über~PhLuBB]

Originally posted by Patchmaster
I'm certainly not an expert at this, but are you sure the pump will cause problems with the motherboard? Monitors are extremely sensitive to magnetic fields, particularly at the lower refresh rates. You've got electrons flying through the air just waiting for their path to be diverted by a magnetic field. The CPU and the rest of the electronics in the computer should be much less susceptible to magentic interference. The electrons are moving only very short distances and their path of travel is rather limited. Personally, I'd be more concerned about the hard drive than the CPU. If the CPU was that sensitive to magnetic fields, those high speed cooling fans would wreak havoc. Stick one of those Delta fans in front of your monitor and see what happens.

Very wise. But would you want to stick a 300W subwoofer magnet right next to your CPU? Even though it might not do damage, I'd be very cautious about putting anything emitting EMI near any of my hardware, save maybe a CD Rom drive.

[Patchmaster]

But would you want to stick a 300W subwoofer magnet right next to your CPU? I said less susceptible to magnetic interference, not immune. There's all kinds of EMI bouncing around inside the case. The motors in the drives produce EMI, the motors in the fans produce EMI, the voltage converter on the network card produces EMI. I wasn't saying it was a good idea to add to the mess, just that it might not be quite the disaster everyone seems to think. I'm sure the fans sitting just inches away from my CPUs are producing more than enough EMI to distort my display if held right in front of it. But they don't seem to have any effect at all on the CPU.

Maybe I misread the pictures and the rest of this thread, but it looked to me like in the picture with the nasty monitor distortion, the Eheim pump is being held directly in front of the monitor. The rest of it seemed to be just suspicions that mounting the new pump inside the case would cause a problem. I was simply suggesting the problem may not be as bad as the monitor test would seem to indicate. There's no way to find out for sure without trying it.

Frankly, I'd be much more concerned about getting water near my CPU than I would the magnetic field from the Eheim.

[Über~PhLuBB]

Originally posted by Patchmaster
I said less susceptible to magnetic interference, not immune. There's all kinds of EMI bouncing around inside the case. The motors in the drives produce EMI, the motors in the fans produce EMI, the voltage converter on the network card produces EMI. I wasn't saying it was a good idea to add to the mess, just that it might not be quite the disaster everyone seems to think. I'm sure the fans sitting just inches away from my CPUs are producing more than enough EMI to distort my display if held right in front of it. But they don't seem to have any effect at all on the CPU.

Maybe I misread the pictures and the rest of this thread, but it looked to me like in the picture with the nasty monitor distortion, the Eheim pump is being held directly in front of the monitor. The rest of it seemed to be just suspicions that mounting the new pump inside the case would cause a problem. I was simply suggesting the problem may not be as bad as the monitor test would seem to indicate. There's no way to find out for sure without trying it.

Frankly, I'd be much more concerned about getting water near my CPU than I would the magnetic field from the Eheim.

I didn't mean what i said in a derogatory manner at all, I'm sorry.

[Patchmaster]

I didn't mean what i said in a derogatory manner at all, I'm sorry. No apology necessary. I didn't take it personally. It's all just part of the discussion. I tried to make a point, you countered, I tried to defuse your counter argument and to amplify my original point.

And I'd still be way more concerned about the water aspect of the whole thing than the magnetic field part. But that's just me. :)

[Über~PhLuBB]

Originally posted by Patchmaster
No apology necessary. I didn't take it personally. It's all just part of the discussion. I tried to make a point, you countered, I tried to defuse your counter argument and to amplify my original point.

And I'd still be way more concerned about the water aspect of the whole thing than the magnetic field part. But that's just me. :)

Whew... The last thing I want to do is anger someone before my second week of posting is up!

I see your point. And you're right, the EMI wouldn't *really* effect the CPU, as the poles of the field would be the only portions coming into "contact" with any hardware. I always thought pumps are better for pushing than for pulling anyway? Wouldn't mounting the pump way up there near the top make it pull the water up?

[JoeC]

I've used the EHEIM 1046 for over a year located close to my front-mounted radiator without a hitch. I was concerned about the magnetic field and its potential impact on my hard drive, so I tried this:

Get a floppy with some data on it and move it around the pump. Maybe leave it in various places for a couple of days. The see if there is any corruption.

If not, I doubt the pump is emitting enough EMI to do any harm. If you locate the floppy about 1 inch from the pump, I doubt you would see anything.

My experience, of course, is with the 1046 - the 1048 may emit more EMI.

[mudguts]

Originally posted by Patchmaster
I'm certainly not an expert at this, but are you sure the pump will cause problems with the motherboard? Monitors are extremely sensitive to magnetic fields, particularly at the lower refresh rates. You've got electrons flying through the air just waiting for their path to be diverted by a magnetic field. The CPU and the rest of the electronics in the computer should be much less susceptible to magentic interference. The electrons are moving only very short distances and their path of travel is rather limited. Personally, I'd be more concerned about the hard drive than the CPU. If the CPU was that sensitive to magnetic fields, those high speed cooling fans would wreak havoc. Stick one of those Delta fans in front of your monitor and see what happens.

Patch has a good point here. In the monitor the electrons are streaming from the guns inside a vacuum. Magnetism is whats used to direct these particles to the correct spot on the screen. Electrons flowing through a circuit have only two ways to go and I believe the pressure (voltage) pushing the electrons will be stronger than the magnetic influence of the pump. Therefore in the interest of laying this whole thing to rest, I am gonna run it and see what happens. I will post my results when Im done. Thanks everybody for posting. :)

[Crazy Jayhawk]

Also, consider this. If I remember right, magnetic field strength drops by the inverse square of the distance. Move something twice as far from the magnetic field source and the field strength will only be 1/4 of what it was before. Even without a metal shield, if you put the pump far away from anything you think might be vulnerable to EMI, you shouldn't have any problems.

[Silversinksam]

http://www.tech-etch.com/shieldingmaterials.html

Perhaps one of these or something similiar could work:



http://www.schneider.co.il/products/images/topas.jpg

http://www.schneider.co.il/products/packag5.shtml

[GERRY136]

i too read that the monitor was the hardware being affected by the magnetic field. i have a 500gph Little Giant submergible pond pump and had it sitting in a small bin right next to my case and had major flicker on my monitor. so i moved the entire case and and bin (temp reservoir) away from the monitor. as i did this the pump and reservoir stayed exactly the same distance from the case. go figure.




great thread btw

[GERRY136]

cant edit for some reason...


anyway, duh, the flickering stopped after moving case and pump a little over 18 inches away. doesnt make sense to me but im a creaton when it comes to electrical kinda stuff.

[Fjeld]

Originally posted by mudguts
Heres a pic of the entire case and the smaller Eheim 1046 that I used for a few months with no trouble. Notice how close it was to the motherboard...I had no troubles with this setup. For those who dont know...the 1046 is only slightly smaller than the 1048 and even uses the same mounting base.


This may do the trick as well! MaxiJet1200. No magnetic influence anywhere :)

[mudguts]

Hey Fjeld.....so that maxijet is of the "direct drive" style?

[Bender]

Yes the maxi jet is a mag drive pump. There is only one moving part, the impeller magnet assembly. My Maxi-Jet 1200 is extremely quiet and most importantly it was $16. I am getting slight magnetic interfearence but only because my res is temporaraly sitting outside my case next to the monitor.

[nebben]

So, I don't have any pics yet..duh..

I don't know why I wasn't thinking of this earlier. My Eheim 1250 is heavy, and I never thought that maybe it was the magnets that make it so. My case is a regular mid-tower size, and I'll be mounting the pump vertically on the inside of the rear of the case (right below the power supply, hoses sticking towards the front of the case and towards the bottom). I am going to be hooking this thing up in the next day or two, but...how many of you have put stuff so tightly in a case before ? Everything is inside the case here: only a fan is outside of the case to draw air through the radiator in the top of the case.

-ben

[JoJoMoJo]

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