939 dilemma -Which will you choose?

n0ob3r · May 16, 2004

Ok, I did a search and I could not find any thread that talked about the new 939 cpus that are suppose to be released this year. So, with that said I shall get to the post.

I was reading about the new AMD 64 939 entitled Newcastle that is suppose to be released very soon (May 25?). But it is sported at .13 Micron while the winchester which is going to be released a little later, is going to be on the 90 nm to compete against intel. Would you guys try to get the new Newcastle right once it hits shelves or would you wait for the Winchester? Thoughts are most welcome.

Also, if you find a thread that did contain any information on the Socket 939 please put that here. I will edit this post and add that info on this post.

============================================

This thread, which was created by hitechjb1,contains info about various A64 CPU's, chipsets, motherbaords, models, benchmark analysis, A64 technologies and terminologies, price-performance tradeoff between 754/939 platforms, potential upgrade roadmap, .... for the A64 socket 754/939/940, 512KB/1MB L2 CPU's.

hitechjb1 · May 16, 2004

This thread contains info about various A64 CPU's, chipsets, motherbaords, models, benchmark analysis, A64 technologies and terminologies, price-performance tradeoff between 754/939 platforms, potential upgrade roadmap, .... for the A64 socket 754/939/940, 512KB/1MB L2 CPU's.

Also it includes links to various CPU, chipset, motherboard reviews, ....

A64 CPUs, chipsets, motherboards

It is not exclusive for 939 though.

Captain Newbie · May 16, 2004

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to hold on until PCI-Express gets stable. Just my $5

The Coolest · May 16, 2004

Actually the s754 NewCastles are already here

n0ob3r · May 16, 2004

I am talking about the 939 version. and captain newbie, you brought up a good point and I agree with you 100%. But 939 socket AMD chips will go on Motherboards that support PCI-X. Mainly I just wanted people to express what chip is better, and how they think it is different then the other. More thoughts on the issue are welcome.

hitechjb1 · May 16, 2004

Yes, the socket 754 NewCastle is available for purchase. But the 754 NewCastle with the CG revision, model ending AX is not available on the street and internet yet, AFAIK.

hitechjb1 · May 17, 2004

n0ob3r said:
I am talking about the 939 version. and captain newbie, you brought up a good point and I agree with you 100%. Mainly I just wanted people to express what chip is better, and how they think it is different then the other. More thoughts on the issue are welcome.

Theoretically, 939 is always better in terms of performance compared to 754 due to the 2x memory bus and bandwidth. And 90 nm SOI CPU's would deliver higher performance than 130 nm SOI CPU's.

Question is at what cost if price-performance is taken into consideration.

Another question is what is the tradeoff between performance, price and target usage one would want to pay for.

hitechjb1 · May 17, 2004

Roughly speaking, based on some benchmark analysis,

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2766934#post2766934
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2762781#post2762781

If price is not consider, it is simple. Performance-wise, this is a break-down:

hitechjb1 said:
Corollary from last post:

Among the Barton, A64 754 with 512 KB/1 MB L2, A64 939 with 512/1 MB L2, running at the same frequency of CPU, FSB (e.g. 200 MHz nom), HT bus (e.g. 800 MHz nom), memory bus (e.g. 200 MHz nom)

On the average among CPU intensive programs,
A64 939 with 1 MB L2 performs
- about the same as a A64 754 with 1 MB L2
- about 10% better than a A64 939/754 with 512 KB L2
- about 13% better than a Barton.

On the average among all programs (counting CPU intensive and memory intensive programs),
A64 939 with 1 MB L2 performs
- about 10% better than a A64 939 with 512 KB L2
- about 10% better than a A64 754 with 1 MB L2
- about 21% better than a A64 754 with 512 KB L2
- about 24% better than a Barton.

One has to fill in price to get the whole picture for price-performance.

n0ob3r · May 17, 2004

Wow, hitechjb1, that is a great post! I guess in the months to come and the different people that get to review the chip, we will hopefully see what the performace vs. price has to offer. For me personally, I am going to go with the 90 nm. I have been waiting for AMD to finally switch and finally it happened!

nocturnal714 · May 17, 2004

as always hitech is on point

OC Detective · May 17, 2004

I thought what defined a Newcastle was the OPN code ending in AX? If that is not the case then what distingishes them (part from the obvious that the cache is not disabled but non existent 512KB v 1MB)

HawainPanda · May 17, 2004

dang...i wonder if 90nm comes out...how much more the athlon 64 can oc...they oc pretty well with the nc

hitechjb1 · May 17, 2004

OC Detective said:
I thought what defined a Newcastle was the OPN code ending in AX? If that is not the case then what distingishes them (part from the obvious that the cache is not disabled but non existent 512KB v 1MB)

Newegg listed their A64 754 with 512 KB L2 with OPN ending in AP as NewCastle core.

If newegg is correct, then NewCastle core can have OPN ending in AP, and also AX.

AP is also used for referring to rev C0 and AX for rev CG.

If looking at CPUID string CPUID string 8000_0001h EAX[31:0],
for AP, CPUID string 8000_0001h EAX[31:0] = F48h
for AR, CPUID string 8000_0001h EAX[31:0] = F4Ah
for AX, CPUID string 8000_0001h EAX[31:0] = FC0h

AP can be either 512 KB or 1 MB L2
AR can be either 512 KB or 1 MB L2

PS: Maybe newegg calls ClawHammer 1 MB cutdown as NewCastle.

OC Detective · May 17, 2004

I think Newegg has it wrong then - they are clawhammers - quite a few sites have them marked incorrectly and assume that all 512KB A64's are Newcastle's when this is not the case. (newcastle's are all FC0h)

hitechjb1 · May 17, 2004

Are both the 754 512 KB L2 CPU and the 939 1 MB L2 CPU based on the SAME NewCastle core?

If so, ...

1. Since 754 NewCastle is out, does that mean 939 NewCastle debut is imminent.

2. Is 754 NewCastle = 939 NewCastle with 1/2 dual channel disabled?

If so, potential chance to enable the half dual channel by some means, hard/soft mod, bios mod, .... (analogous to the famous 9500 np to 9700 mod).

OC Detective · May 17, 2004

A newcastle is a core with only 512KB to start with (rather than 1MB half disabled) - all Newcastles will be like this AFAIK. I cant see how a 1MB A64 can be a Newcastle in this case - unless there is also something else different about the cores? As for 939's I guess they will come out at launch as Newcastles (if 512KB) so dont see the possibility of enabling the rest of the cache as it doesnt exist - damn I am confused now! I would expect all 939 A64's to be 512KB so as to differentiate from the FX range - although with AMD who knows!

hitechjb1 · May 17, 2004

OC Detective said:
A newcastle is a core with only 512KB to start with (rather than 1MB half disabled) - all Newcastles will be like this AFAIK. I cant see how a 1MB A64 can be a Newcastle in this case - unless there is also something else different about the cores? As for 939's I guess they will come out at launch as Newcastles (if 512KB) so dont see the possibility of enabling the rest of the cache as it doesnt exist - damn I am confused now! I would expect all 939 A64's to be 512KB so as to differentiate from the FX range - although with AMD who knows!

Not talking about enable L2 cache, but memory channel.

939 can be either 512 KB or 1 MB L2.

939 512 KB is a NewCastle
754 512 KB is a NewCastle

If the two NewCastle's are based on the same core, then ...

So the NewCastle core can implement both single and dual channel, hence the potential single to dual channel mod.

OC Detective · May 17, 2004

I know we are expecting the 939 A64's to be both 512 and 1MB just as we are expecting them to be dual channel but until they are actually released by AMD - nobody knows for sure! lol

OC-Master · May 17, 2004

Um, maybe I've heard wrong but isnt the Socket 939 CPUs supposed to be using 1000MHz HyperTransport bus'es and DDR500 memory to go along with them.

I read this up on a news group the other week and people were saying that at first, only DDR400 would be supported officially but later on, AMD would actually support the DDR500 standard.

OC-Master

xtrmeocr · May 17, 2004

i'l be going with whatever is out when pci-express finnaly comes out.

939 dilemma -Which will you choose?

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