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hitechjb1 said:For price performance NEW build system, an A64 754 + Nforce3 250 GB is becoming a better choice than Nfoce2 + mobile Barton, as of May 04. This is the reasoning.
These links shows some benchmark analysis of a A64 FX-53, A64 3200+, A64 3000+, a Barton and some P4's.
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2762781#post2762781
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2766934#post2766934
Roughly speaking, when clocking to the same frequencies of CPU, FSB, HT, memory, IMO
the top line FX-53 (which 939 would resemble) is better than a barton by about 24-32% (average over a range of progarms, should look at the detailed breakdown as listed in the links).
An A64 754 with 1 MB L2 would be close to the FX-53 except for memory bandwidth and memory intensive programs. For memory intensive applications, the 939/940 would have an edge on performance over the 754 (with same L2 size and running same frequencies) ranging from 20-80%, as seen from those benchmarks.
An A64 754 with 512 KB L2 would be 2-10% worse than an A64 754 w/ 1 MB L2.
....
A 754 512 KB L2 A64 + 250 GB motherboard can be had around $100 more compared to a Nforce2 + mobile Barton when builiding a NEW system with the A64 technologies + 15-25% average gain over a Barton (at same frequencies).
A 754 1 MB L2 A64 + 250 GB motherboard can be had around $150 more compared to a Nforce2 + mobile Barton when builiding a NEW system with the A64 technologies + 20-30% average gain over a Barton (at same frequencies).
....
As of May 04, here assuming limiting the choice to 754 (939 not out yet):
There have been reviews of some 754 motherboards with Nforce3 250 GB (with GB), hope should be on the street very soon.
The MSI K8N Neo is one that has received good reviews and it has x5 multiplier for the HT bus.
Other good motherboards may be coming soon, if can wait a little bit more.
I think for good price performance,
- e.g.
a 754 3000+ 512 KB L2 with CG rev, NewCastle core (OPN AX) with x10 multiplier,
a 754 mobile 3000+ 1 MB L2, with CG rev, ClawHammer core (OPN AR) with x9 multiplier
- a 754 motherboard w/ 250 GB with 5X HT setting, such as one above or better ones
- SLK-948 (or wait for the heat pipe version)
- 2 x 512 MB memory (DDR500 or overclock equivalent to run 250 MHz+ ASYNC)
(IMO, this combo is coming to a point that it is considered a better choice than a Nforce2 w/ mobile Barton for a NEW build, even considering price).
There are also 754 mobile, 754 mobile DTR, 754 desktop 3200+ 1 MB L2 version, with x10 multiplier.
Target setup:
CPU x9, target to 2.25 - 2.7 GHz
Memory at 250 - 300 MHz, ASYNC, effective BW = 3800 - 4560 MB/s
HT at x3, at least 750 - 900 MHz w/ DDR
....
hitechjb1 said:So I think
- mobile A64 754 3000+ 1 MB L2, with x9 multiplier (or 3200+ if price down)
- 250 GB or K8T800 pro motherboard
- 2x512 MB DDR500 or overclock equivalent
- SLK-948 or heat pipe
is the way to do at this time (May 04) for around $600.
Originally posted by hitechjb1
Typical Overclocking System
Price performance system
- A64 754 1 MB L2 ClawHammer, CPU revsion CG
(as price moves down, move to higher PR with small price differential)
- 3000+ with x9 multiplier (for air/water cooling)
- 3200+ with x10 multiplier (for water/extreme cooling)
- 1.5V desktop, 1.5V mobile DTR, 1.4V mobile CPU
- 250 GB or K8T800 pro motherboard
- 2x512 MB DDR500 or overclock equivalent
- SLK-948 or heat pipe
- As of May 04, cost around USD 600.
Target setup:
BIOS FSB setting: 250 - 300 MHz (FSB is a setting, not physically per se)
CPU 1 MB L2 ClawHammer CG revision
- x9, target to 2.25 - 2.7 GHz
- x10, target to 2.5 - 3 GHz
Memory at 250 - 300 MHz, ASYNC, effective BW = 3800 - 4560 MB/s
HT at x3, at least 750 - 900 MHz w/ DDR, or x4 from 1000 and up
Originally posted by hitechjb1
On performance difference
The numbers on performance made here are based on two benchmark results and analysis of some A64 FX, A64 754 ClawHammer (1MB L2), A64 754 NewCastle (512KB L2), Barton, P4's, ...
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2762781#post2762781
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2766934#post2766934
For 939 with 1 MB L2, when available, it would perform similar to a 940 FX/Opteron, running at the same frequenies.
For 939, if used with unbuffered memory module, can be slightly faster than a 940 due to less memory overhead.
Both of 939/940 dual channel have 80% more effective memory bandwidth than the 754, hence they are always better in performance, especially for memory intensive programs, up to 20-80% higher performance.
From a few gaming benchmarks, a A64 FX/939 at 2.4 GHz performs 12-20% better than an A64 754 with 1MB L2 at 2.0 GHz, and 15-29% better than an A64 754 with 512 L2 at 2.0 GHz (memory bus, HT bus same frequencies). Not clear if 754 CPU's were clocked to same speed, what would the performance difference be, as the performance difference can be attributed to both memory bandwidth and CPU raw power, but these numbers put an upper bound on gaming performance of 939 over 754.
If not counting memory intensive programs, the advantage of 939/FX to 754 is only few % (say 5%) on the average.
Running at the same frequencies of CPU, memory (and bandwidth), HT, the performance difference between a 512 KB L2 and a 1 MB L2 would average around 5%, between 2-10%+ depending on the application.
Given that, I'd say $580.00 is QUITE reasonable for FX-51 performance, given that the few online stores that still carry the Socket 940 FX-51 are asking $730.00ea. Remember...AMD can only survive with high 939 prices for a little while following its release, and then soon after it will be forced to compete with Intel pricing. This holds true EVEN if the initial supply of 939s is weak.Gautam said:Its perfectly logical, in fact. The 3400+ is priced at $400. The 3500+ needs to be priced above this, while also considering that's its basically equivalent in performance to an FX51, which was priced in the mid-700's. The 3800+ can be looked at as equivalent to an FX53. These prices, I'm guessing, will drop by about $100 within a month's time. The 3100+ and 3300+ will hopefully appear as well, although 939 may not be an affordable platform for a while.