On northbridge watercooling (and why you shouldn't do it)

[LtBlue14]

I really feel like ranting, but I'll try to keep this short and to the point.

After killing my THIRD motherboard by chipping the northbridge core *oh so slightly* with the danger den Z-chipset block, and after talking with friends who have all had the same thing happen to them, i just need to say it is NOT worth replacing motherboards just to try to get extra cooling on a piece of hardware where the need for extra cooling is dubious anyway.

Danger Den's new mounting system for the newer Intel chipsets (including 845PE, 848, 865, 875) is, true to its name, fraught with danger. The old hole-in-the-mobo system was much less dangerous, as you could screw on the block slowly, putting even pressure on all sides. Trying to catch two hooks onto the little rings at the same time, and with springs as stiff as the ones Danger Den supplies, is suicide. I even cut down the springs a bit with the mobo I received today, so that the pressure would not be as great. It matters not.

I don't know whether to blame this on Intel's new chipset mounting system (hooks instead of holes?? :mad: ) or on Danger Den's implementation of this mounting system, but I can say that I am finished with northbridge watercooling, and I would not encourage others to try it, unless other companies have safer mounting methods.

Speaking of which, can anyone link me to a northbridge block with a GOOD mounting system using the hooks that Intel motherboards now provide? I want to try to clue Danger Den in, so other people aren't killing their boards when they're trying to have a little fun with their hobby.

[Korndog]

sorry to hear that, i never had a problem with cooling my NB yet.. but then again, i have the holes instead of the spring.
i used to have an intel mobo, and i know how annoying those hooks are.
I thought dangerden had improved the hooks and were willing to ship it out to people with older NB blocks?

[[AK]Zip]

I am running a SwiftTech NB waterblock and I got it on there with no problems at all. Very happy with the mounting and everything. Look into that.

-Alex-

[thorilan]

you would think that designers would read this and go " hey maybe we should keep holes instead and give them on die diode support and the other little nicities arnt dificult to implement. a few minor inovations go a long way

[pelikan]

I've never had a need to cool a NB. There is so little heat coming from there compared to a cpu.

[Diggrr]

I've cooled my Northbridges from the beginning. But I've always had holes to use.
Sorry 'bout your luck, man. I don't know what I'd do if I opened up a new mobo and it had those stinking hooks...there's alot of stuff that NewEgg will only replace with duplicate items...Probably donate it to my wife's machine, and continue hunting.
It seams they either let the block pop off, come unsoldered off the board, or allow rocking that chips your core.

What a drag that saving 5 cents in production can lead to such misfortune. :rolleyes:

[EwoutvB]

Guys I made my own custom mounting for the 875/865 chipset, for the PolarFLO Chipset block:


http://www.lcmod.com/~ewout_vb/tn_water_craze%20046.jpg (http://www.lcmod.com/~ewout_vb/water_craze%20046.jpg)

http://www.lcmod.com/~ewout_vb/tn_water_craze%20048.jpg (http://www.lcmod.com/~ewout_vb/water_craze%20048.jpg)

http://www.gruntville.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6766&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30


Seems to work good, haven't installed my WCing yet, I'll let you guys know later if you want.

[lemon]

Before this, I was thinking to install a water block to my NB, but I read your post, it make me think twice.. :eh?: sorry about your mobos..

[EwoutvB]

Look at the post above, this custom set up should work flawless.

[weapon]

I've cooled my Northbridges from the beginning. But I've always had holes to use.
Sorry 'bout your luck, man. I don't know what I'd do if I opened up a new mobo and it had those stinking hooks...there's alot of stuff that NewEgg will only replace with duplicate items...Probably donate it to my wife's machine, and continue hunting.
It seams they either let the block pop off, come unsoldered off the board, or allow rocking that chips your core.

What a drag that saving 5 cents in production can lead to such misfortune. :rolleyes:

yeah - cooling the n.bridge is a must if you are gonna kick the voltage up a notch (well, six notches would be more accurate). Anyway, thin shims made out of nonconductive material might be able to solve this problem - at least they could keep the n.bridge block stable enough (in side to side and/or top to bottom movement if necessary) to mount teh block to the damn board.

down with the hook!!!

I have used additional n.bridge cooling on my systems for eons - the latest has a custom H2O block + 80w pelt that keeps it subzero - my FSB OC went up when I added the "excessive" cooling. ;) I do not recall additional cooling on the n.bridge ever having a negative performance hit.

[cypher_138]

I was water cooling mine but crunched the NB on a re-mount.:(
I decided to leave that out of the loop and have the same OC with a 40mm fan attatched to the stock HS.
The DD Z-Chip is still in my drawer to this day.;)

[Myhre]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents here. I've recently moved to watercooling my NB, and just as quickly moved away from it after chipping the core. I was using the Swiftech NB waterblock, and let me just say, I have no idea what these design people are thinking about when they came up with the two hook system, for a board that has the four mounting loops. I have since moved back to air cooling my NB while staying with a Swiftech product called the MCX159. I love it, it comes with the standard four hook retention mech that is directly compatable with the board. The only problem I noticed(and only noticed because I'm anal about stuff like this) was that one of the hangars that clips to the board was slightly pushing up against a capacitor on the left side of my asus p4p800/p4c800-e dlx board(s). I remedied this easily by bending out one arm and bending in the opposing arm on the opposite side of the block. Giving ample clearance for the capacitor and arm now. And let me just say that my NB stays just as cool as when I had it inline in my watercooling setup.

[sbud]

I once had a Swifty MCW20 on my NB till it ripped out both hooks (one right after another). An MCX159 sits there now, same O/C, and without the headache.

[Myhre]

I once had a Swifty MCW20 on my NB till it ripped out both hooks (one right after another). An MCX159 sits there now, same O/C, less headache.

Heh, the exact same thing happend to another board of mine. It was a board I got right after the incident with the first one(the core being broken) I hadn't given up on the Swifty MCW20 just yet, since I had the notion that it might have been an error on my part. Well about a week later, after I had reinstalled the swifty waterblock on my NB on my Brand New P4P800 Deluxe board, I noticed my MB temps rising drastically. I looked inside the case and low and behold my poor little block was hanging precariously by the hose it was connected into the loop with. :bang head That was confirmation enough for me to finally move away from the dream that is WC NB. I've since taken the MCW20 apart, in hopes that I can find something useful for that ginormous piece of copper that they call a baseplate. Too bad POGS went out of style in the 90's :D

[weapon]

the only way the hooks will be changed is if the board manufacturers and Intel know how much everyone hates the bastages. send some " I hate the damn hooks" email to your favorite board maker today. :)

[fallguy]

Never had a problem with mine.. with Swiftech and Aqua-Computer blocks.

The NF3 250 chipset gets VERY hot, and I think it will help having it watercooled. Which is why I did mine. :)

[rhino56]

my NB gets quite hot when im overclocking over 4 ghz and running it hard

[Silent Buddha]

Good thing my Socket A mobo has the holes.
*breathes sigh of relief*

[LtBlue14]

EwoutvB: that looks like a good setup, i might run down to the hardware store and buy some of those hooks, and see how they work.

Also, bumping up the voltage on the northbridge, or just running a very high FSB could definitely be helped by watercooling. Just be careful you don't crack the core ^_^

[lemon]

Can you guys post some pic of your fubared NB? just curious how it looks like

[Myhre]

Can you guys post some pic of your fubared NB? just curious how it looks like

I never took any pics of it and that board is long gone now :(

[LtBlue14]

Pic 1:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~clc9s/PICT0021.JPG
Pic 2:
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~clc9s/PICT0023.JPG
My third mobo is still in the comp awaiting the arrival of my fourth, so I can only get ya 2 pics. Basically you can see where one corner on each chip has been broken away. Not much to look at, but there you go.

EDIT: in case you can't see, it's the bottom corner in the 1st pic, and the bottom right corner in the 2nd.

[lemon]

I can see it.. OMG only slighly crack can cause the mobo dead... :eh?: i'm still thinking whether I should cool the NB with water or not.. :confused:

[lemon]

I was wondering, if it possible, if I apply a thin layer of epoxy adhesive on top of the NB chip so that epoxy adhesive can act as a hard shell for the NB chip that it will protect it.

[daniel_dynasty]

can you mount a slk hs onto it instead?

[Silent Buddha]

can you mount a slk hs onto it instead?

Good luck in making it fit without obstructing the cpu hsf or wb. Yeah...I don't think it's possible given the nb's usual proximity to the cpu socket.

[EwoutvB]

Guys here is my custom mounting if you were interested in seeing it installed, I'll probably have a guide online soon on how to make it.

http://www.lcmod.com/~ewout_vb/polarflo_nb.jpg

[MoreGooder]

EwoutvB,

That mounting adaption is very clever, well implemented and deserves lots of attention from manufacturers like DD and Swifty.

[EwoutvB]

Actualy I sent some pictures to polarflo, the guy is looking into it, hopefully they can retail a similiar system.

Thanks, it really works like a charm :)

[Etacovda]

Its amazing and frustrating that manufacturers dont come up with methods like this more often - its mind boggling, actually.

[Thornbrand]

I feel for ya LtBlue...I've had the same problem.

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=293898

I ended up soldering my hook back in, but have yet to test my motherboard. When I examined the factory solder joints on the PCB I noticed that they were of sub-standard quality (I have an Asus board, and that suprised me...). Each joint appeared to have either not gotten hot enough, or to have cooled too quickly. In my judgement (no expert here), these solder joints should have been "touched up" by hand for this type of design, and not just passed through the regular manufacturing process; those hooks bear a significant load.

I'm wondering if that wasn't just the Intel reference design and that's what manufacturers ran with, but I'm certain they're aware of the problem. A search for "paper clip" on the Abit forums shows how common the problem is, and other searches revealed more.

I don't blame Swiftech for the block design, it's a solid block and I'm quite impressed with it. Though I'd still like to have seen four mounting points, I'm not sure that would even help. IMHO it's the poor Intel retention design that is mostly at fault, and not any waterblock manufacturere's design (though I strongly agree that they could all be improved). I've even seen incidences of the stock heatsinks just coming off (on multiple brands of boards.)

After soldering my hook back in, I still didn't trust the weight of the waterblock and tubing on the clips. I ended up lapping the stock aluminum heatsink, adding a dab of Ceramique, and re-attaching it. Even if it doesn't perform better than the waterblock would have, at least I can rest easy.

I'm with you Bro...it just ain't worth it with the Intel hook/clip set-up. It's cool to see other people pull it off, but I just couldn't make my set up work with a waterblock. I had been considering Swiftech's MCX159 as well, but I'm gonna give the lapped stock heatsink a shot first.

EwoutvB, that is indeed a clever and very practicle design...the best I've seen.

[corrosion231]

I really feel like ranting, but I'll try to keep this short and to the point.

After killing my THIRD motherboard by chipping the northbridge core *oh so slightly* with the danger den Z-chipset block, and after talking with friends who have all had the same thing happen to them, i just need to say it is NOT worth replacing motherboards just to try to get extra cooling on a piece of hardware where the need for extra cooling is dubious anyway.

Danger Den's new mounting system for the newer Intel chipsets (including 845PE, 848, 865, 875) is, true to its name, fraught with danger. The old hole-in-the-mobo system was much less dangerous, as you could screw on the block slowly, putting even pressure on all sides. Trying to catch two hooks onto the little rings at the same time, and with springs as stiff as the ones Danger Den supplies, is suicide. I even cut down the springs a bit with the mobo I received today, so that the pressure would not be as great. It matters not.

I don't know whether to blame this on Intel's new chipset mounting system (hooks instead of holes?? :mad: ) or on Danger Den's implementation of this mounting system, but I can say that I am finished with northbridge watercooling, and I would not encourage others to try it, unless other companies have safer mounting methods.

Speaking of which, can anyone link me to a northbridge block with a GOOD mounting system using the hooks that Intel motherboards now provide? I want to try to clue Danger Den in, so other people aren't killing their boards when they're trying to have a little fun with their hobby.


SO YOU SOLD ME THE DAMN BLOCK INSTEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111 :mad: j/k I have plans for the chip ruining *******.

[pauldenton]

Speaking of which, can anyone link me to a northbridge block with a GOOD mounting system using the hooks that Intel motherboards now provide? I want to try to clue Danger Den in, so other people aren't killing their boards when they're trying to have a little fun with their hobby.

hmm - given that performance isn't really an issue for a NB block, why not just use thermal tape......

[LtBlue14]

SO YOU SOLD ME THE DAMN BLOCK INSTEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111 j/k I have plans for the chip ruining *******.
yeah bro, i hope it goes well for you. i sold it for so cheap because of the problems i've had with it recently, though i ran it just fine for at least a year with motherboards with HOLES. if you have a board with hooks but can emulate the mounting system done by EwoutvB, i'm sure you can get it working just fine. i was too frustrated to stick with it though.

hmm - given that performance isn't really an issue for a NB block, why not just use thermal tape......
that defeats the purpose of the block :D

oh and EwoutvB, that really is a fantastic mounting system. before i sold my block i was looking at building one myself, but could only find screw pieces with the ring on the bottom (for screwing into a wall/boards), i never found a bolt with the ring at the end so i could fit a nut on the end of it. ah well. i also sent Danger Den an email about this, and they never responded. so much for that :rolleyes:
they've always had great customer service in the past

[corrosion231]

Ive got the ic-7 :( But meh Ill make it work. It looks like he used a large part of acrylic and used better hooks. I will try that, since I have a backup 875p board that works fine other than the pci slots not working :rolleyes: Im going to run my setup on that for a few days to test my mods im doing to it.

[anvil82]

Drill your own holes :D

Hmm, a northbridge shim may be a better idea, do such things exist?

[corrosion231]

I was thinking the same thing, I have a dead duron Im going to try the rubber pads on my test mobo with those them im going to try a shim as well. Ive got some adonized aluminum I'm going to try with it.

[lapino]

the pics for the custom mount seem offline. any way to put them here?