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think this is one of those slap in the face questions

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Froz

Member
Joined
May 27, 2004
If you're using 1/2" ID tubing, the ID of the barbs should also be 1/2" and you should stretch the tubing to make it fit? Currently all of my barbs are 3/8" ID, did I completely miss a point somewhere?

Also, I have some vinyl tubing from menards, is that stretchable via hot water soakage?

Ready to slap my forehead,
Froz
 
Everything is stretchable. Depending upon your blocks, the difference between 3/8" ID fittings and 1/2" ID fittings is either small (WW, MCW6000) or large (Maze 4)
 
Well, technically, you are paying a small price in performance for the restriction that the smaller barbs create. I can't say for sure since I haven't done any experiments along those lines, but I doubt it's that big of a factor.

The reason 1/2" ID lines work better than 3/8" ID lines is that the ratio between cross sectional area and perimeter is much higher. This means that proportionally less water is interacting with the surface of the tube, which means less friction for a given quantity of water. Less friction means less head loss, which means greater flow for a given pump. When the water runs into a short region with a smaller cross section, like one of your barbs, for the most part it just speeds up. Some turbulence is created as well, which leads to some head loss, but shouldn't be a deal-breaker. For waterblocks with impingement mechanisms, like an RBX or WW, a larger restriction occurs anyway farther downstream, so the smaller barb is irrelevant. For high-flow blocks, like a Maze 4, the higher flow velocity can actually improve performance by causing a thinner thermal boundary layer (for a good example of this kind of difference, see the difference in performance between a Koolance CPU300-H10 and a CPU300-H13). I'm not as certain about radiators, but I think that they are similar to impingement blocks in that they introduce a large amount of resistance already, so the barbs aren't a big deal.

That's my take on things, based on what I know of fluid dynamics. I'd be really interested if anyone has done any experiments along these lines. Another possible lead would be to look up minor losses in a fluid dynamics textbook or reference. My books are in storage now, or else I'd definitely have the figures for you.

Any other mechanical engineers out there?
 
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A-Speck said:
Well, technically, you are paying a small price in performance for the restriction that the smaller barbs create. I can't say for sure since I haven't done any experiments along those lines, but I doubt it's that big of a factor.

The reason 1/2" ID lines work better than 3/8" ID lines is that the ratio between cross sectional area and perimeter is much higher. This means that proportionally less water is interacting with the surface of the tube, which means less friction for a given quantity of water. Less friction means less head loss, which means greater flow for a given pump. When the water runs into a short region with a smaller cross section, like one of your barbs, for the most part it just speeds up. Some turbulence is created as well, which leads to some head loss, but shouldn't be a deal-breaker. For waterblocks with impingement mechanisms, like an RBX or WW, a larger restriction occurs anyway farther downstream, so the smaller barb is irrelevant. For high-flow blocks, like a Maze 4, the higher flow velocity can actually improve performance by causing a thinner thermal boundary layer (for a good example of this kind of difference, see the difference in performance between a Koolance CPU300-H10 and a CPU300-H13). I'm not as certain about radiators, but I think that they are similar to impingement blocks in that they introduce a large amount of resistance already, so the barbs aren't a big deal.

That's my take on things, based on what I know of fluid dynamics. I'd be really interested if anyone has done any experiments along these lines. Another possible lead would be to look up minor losses in a fluid dynamics textbook or reference. My books are in storage now, or else I'd definitely have the figures for you.

Any other mechanical engineers out there?

Would you say that the more 3/8" ID barbs you use the greating overall restriction you're creating? I'm going to tubing through walls in my external setup and I"m wondering if I should use barbs or seal the tubes themselves. Glad to know that I don't have to go exchange though.

On the same thought pattern, I keep seeing that you want the biggest hole for the inlet of pump, I have a hydor l30 (pos) which has a 1/2" head non-removably fixed so best I can do is go 1/2" to the res right?

Thanks,
Froz
 
You're right on, Froz. Every time you use a 3/8" ID barb in a 1/2" tubing system, you're effectively accelerating and decelerating the water as it moves through the barb. Fluids accelerate pretty well, but they're a pain to decelerate smoothly, so you usually end up with turbulence and head loss.

As for using barbs to go through your case or just sealing the tubes, I'd go with barbs, simply because they're more reliable. Engineering is full of performance comprimises in favor of reliability. Heck, the fact that we can overclock at all is evidence of that.

As for your pump, I'd definitely try to keep the restriction low going into it. Centrifugal pumps don't respond well to restriction anywhere in the loop, and putting one right next to the inlet will definitely not help your flowrate. Of course, that being said, I use an MCP600 with a 3/8" ID inlet, so I'm not exactly a saint in that area. A sacrifice of performance for convenience, I guess. Meh, I still like it better than my old L30. Much quieter, and better temps.

Rock on. :attn:
 
I was going to start a thread, but maybe this can be answered here.

In a setup like A-Speck's with the 3/8 on the intake of his pump. Supposing you have 1/2" ID tubing. Could you use a small bit of 3/8 ID, 5/8 OD tubing and then the 1/2 ID on top of that?
 
I'm not as certain about radiators, but I think that they are similar to impingement blocks in that they introduce a large amount of resistance already, so the barbs aren't a big deal.
No they don't. They produce very little restriction whatsoever (~3" H2O @ 1GPM, vs 14" [lowest] for an impingement block) The barb is likely the biggest source of restriction on a radiator with 3/8" ID barbs (verifying.)

Edit: Checked, and using 12.83mm ID tubing offers 1/5 the resistance of 7.11mm.

A submerged pump is the best way to do it, and will get you the most flow. Why would anyone want a 3/8" intake? Do you want your CPU warmer? Generally if the pump's inlet is 3/8" stock, it's outlet is 1/4", so using 1/2" would be a mistake anyway. If you've modded it to use a 3/8" barb, CHANGE IT!!!
 
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