Another Custom WaterBlock (Pics)

[BlueBall]

Please enjoy AND LEARN from my mods!

It gets better each page!! I promise!!

Please visit my COMPLETE CASE MOD (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=310326)link with TONS of pictures.

[BlueBall]

My previous design ....

[BlueBall]

I still need to fabricate a retaining clip that presses on the CENTER of my new block. Not alot of room left. My FOURTH design is underway already and has the potential to be half the size.

I am interested in feedback. :)

[[AK]Zip]

You have some of the weirdest waterblocks I have ever seen. 2 thumbs up to you! Looks very origional and interesting.

-Alex-

[BlueBall]

Heres a good pic from bottom up ...

[[AK]Zip]

Any pics of the inside?

[BlueBall]

I am not a plumber butt I have done tons of it. I only have 1 or two joints I would redo if I could. If I decide (after benches) that this thing rocks, I am gonna use copper roll instead.

I am thinking of making the fifth block a phase change only design. I have an small fridge compressor that needs a home in my rig :> Well... I gotta rip it outa the fridge first ;>

[JFettig]

that is a strange but cool lookin block. it appears its a cross drilled block, center inlet and 4 outlets going into 1.

yeah, it looks like holding the block down could be a problem. maybe if you made a hold down out of aluminum or something, unscrewed those plugs, put the old down on, then screwed them back on and bolted it down.

It could work pretty well.

Jon

[BlueBall]

The inside was impossible to photograph ... it reflected in a prism kinda effect. I can tell you that it is NOT a simply cross drill design. There is a turbulance area (1/2 round) directly above the core. The capped cross chambers are slighty smaller and draw the heat away (outwards) then upwards and out of the block. Then it re-unites in a chamber designed to keep uniform flow (water will take the path of least resistance).

[BlueBall]

I have the retaining hardware ... I just need to figure out how to get pessure on the center of the block ONLY. My other block with the acrylic top can be easily over/under tightened minutely.

[BlueMan]

Man, what kind of drill did it take to work the inside of that?

[ZachM]

That's a very interesting design. You should post that in the custom water block gallery if you haven't already. One question. Is that metal braided tubing in your second post? I would be afraid to let that rest on my video card!:eek: Is it coated so it doesn't conduct?

[Aphex_Tom_9]

wow, nice custom blocks! what are the insides like??

[slater3333uk]

Funky. :D

Keep up the good work, even if its not the best performer is an interesting design.

[orionnt]

I like the AMD sticker on the WB. Never seen that before, heh.

[BlueBall]

Yes ... They are braided faucet flex lines and they are coated and so is most everyhting else. I used this ... http://www.ocforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=29936

Don't judge my peformance before I have even put in in a box!

[BlueBall]

This fridge is gonna hold my resevoir and radiator (as well as my beer :cool: )

The other PC's on the picture are running as servers. One is my old XP1700 JUIHB DLT3C ... That is one kick-a$$ chip! 2.3Ghz with an SLK-800 and TWO DELTA BLOWERS ... Thank god it's all in the basement. My office is SILENT!
Silent enough that my hard drives annoy me.

I think some kind of spider-like retaining clip mounted to the 1/2 inlet at the center on pivots so it can be oriented alternately or used on newer and/or different mobo mounting holes.

[squeakygeek]

Where did you get the retaining hardware?

[VAdept]

Wow, looks awesome, kudos for design style. Hope you can work out the retaining mechanism soon so we can see some results :D

[BlueBall]

I have FINALLY mounted my new block. While I was at it I decided to mod my case too.

And since I went THAT far ... I might as well do the whole 'fridge' thing too :>

I will post some pics now and some later.


I made a CPU hold down plate with AMD carved in it but it broke when I was enlarging a drill hole. So I made another with my name on it. H A R D Y (Systems)

[BlueBall]

Here is the start of my case pics

[BlueBall]

I will DEFINATELY be modding the front bezel.

[BlueBall]

Here are the inside shots

[BlueBall]

Hint .... Paint your case with BLACK or SILVER or even white before using any 'anodizing paint' .... remember the 'anodizing' is see-thru :attn:

[Aphex_Tom_9]

noseeum!
edit- nevermind

[BlueBall]

Here's a good one .... Slide 3/8" copper INTO 1/2 inch clear tubing. It gives an illusion of 1/2" copper but has a rubber feel. And is SAFE in your case. Unlike water.

I couldn't believe it either :bday:

[BlueBall]

more pics

[BlueBall]

Unfortunately in this model they put the condensing line in the SIDE of the fridge ... my hole saw found it. I am not cooling yet .... just using it as a res.

Gotta solder the hole then recharge the R134a. (One day my PC will be INSIDE this fridge!)

[BlueBall]

I introduce to you a MSI FX5900XT (380/790) that has been highly modified like this ....

Flashed to 5950Ultra and water cooled to kick out 450/900 and rising!

[BlueBall]

BTW ... the PINK water is actually this ....

[BlueBall]

here's more info ...

[BlueBall]

I'm getting really good flow from this. And it even kinda looks pretty ... :drool:

[thegame]

btw water wetter is bad. it will gunk up on ya. and lets see a better pic of the block on the vid card that looks different.

[Ri0]

Man, you are one of the funkiest and creative modders around. That setup is mindboggling. What are the blots in the bottom of the cpu water block for?

[BlueBall]

Thx. .... I got most of my inspiration from this site (among others)

Those bolts are what my cpu block retainer plate push against. Not exactly what they were made for (but it is a prototype). The water flows IN the center of the CPU block then outwards then upwards ... drawing the heat AWAY from the core.

I originally wanted to design a retainer that was more like the videocard ... meaning there is NO chance of over/under tightening and damaging your CPU (chiped corners etc)

[BlueBall]

I made a Power Distribution Node (sounds cool huh?)

Thats the yellow plexi thingy ... :>

[BlueBall]

Look what I just noticed. These "Ultimate Hard Drive Coolers" have channels in the aluminum from front to back. If I notch every other one then cap the ends water will flow through the entire block. This is an awesome mod.

I wonder if anyone has ever done it? :eek:

[slater3333uk]

Funky :D

I like the case. one of those short + fat numbers ;)

[thegame]

i still want to see what ya got on the vid card man. very nice stuff ya are making tho.

[SewerBeing]

I love your setup, but I'm kinda wondering are you insane?? Yeah please, show us the graphic card some more.

[Busty St. Clair]

man u wanna water cooler every component in ur pc. heck i wouldn't be surprised if you wced your monitor and psu. i agree show us the graphics card block please.

[Aphex_Tom_9]

let's hear it for home-made watercooling!

[BlueBall]

Well ... I think I have gone OVER-THE-TOP on this one.....

I will give you my benchies after these next few pics ... :>

[BlueBall]

:thup:

[BlueBall]

BTW ... I am self-employed and ALWAYS looking for new opportunities ... ;)

[ZachM]

Is that dry ice causing the smoke? That's pretty cool. One warning though. If enough of it melts you will start replacing the oxygen in the room with C02.:eek: So watch yourself. Keep a window open.;)

[BlueBall]

That explains why my pants are on backwards ... DOH!

BTW ... frost-bite can happen within one second (for future reference)

[Contra]

on top of the video card what is the clear plastic thing? a fan?

[BlueBall]

Sorry about the video card pics ... It's real hard to get shots when installed (I'm sure you can figure out why) ....

The video card is ABSOLUTELY flush with the HSF/waterblock hybrid buy using those two layers of plexi and a strong spring between them, I am able to produce EVEN pressure without guessing. Definately a highlight worth mentioning.

[BlueBall]

OMG ... I just hit 42K in AM3 @ 453/1030 with my MSI FX5900XT.... Not bad for $150US

Btw Water Wetter smells BAD when evaporating ... yuck! .... Looks like I'm gonna switch back to straight distilled.

[toyomatt84]

DAMN, Blue. This is looking good. I'm glad to see your working on the fridge-mod. :D

Anyway, trip was good, but came to an abrupt end when my grandma passed away the day I flew home. It's been rough around house lately. I'll holla at ya' lataz.

[BlueBall]

My offer still stands Toyomatt .... will make you a KILLER waterblock (for whatever you want) at cost. Although I know you already bought a Swiftech.

I am so sorry to hear about your Grandmother ... it's NEVER easy ... Unfortunately you are at the age where it become more and more common. No wonder 'old' farts are so bitter :<

I recommend the HDD cooler mod and the PDN (Power Distribution Node) as mandatory mods. :cool:

[thorilan]

omg i got a laugh out of this one. keep up the good work

[BlueBall]

I am totally surprised that nobody has asked any technical questions ...

All that preperation and measuring seem unworthy ?!?!

[BlueBall]

Here is the video card pics by request :>

[BlueBall]

closer look

[BlueBall]

And finally ... a shot of the HSF/water hybrid that can run at 453/1030

I was able to run at 461/1100 but it would periodically show artifacts and hang during benchmarks.

[toyomatt84]

What's the plexi thing on the back for? It's cool looking. :D

[TazExtreme3]

Looks like a tensioner thingy, that's some good stuff, very nice

[BlueBall]

ok ... welll a LONG weekend has passed and I almost finished my case.

Some cool pics you'll like :>

[BlueBall]

more :beer:

[BlueBall]

I really like anodizing spray paint!! (coloured clearcoat/glazing)

It is simply amazing because you can use silver, gold, black or white and the results will be COMPLETELY different!


BTW ... the HDD cooler mod was EASY!!

[BlueBall]

Almost done... :>

[BlueBall]

Close-up while testing .... :attn:

[BlueBall]

I don't think I'll use purple in a case mod ever again. I just don't find it appealing.

What are your thoughts?

[VballCoach]

I don't think I'll use purple in a case mod ever again. I just don't find it appealing.

What are your thoughts?
not on a psu anyways....

[Turd Furguson]

I just read through this thread and don't think I seen any cooling temps posted? Care to post some or did I just overlook them. I haven't slept in 29 hours so I may be blind now partially.

[herbs97]

I like how the hard drive coolers look. What did you use to attach the ends with? Looks clean ,Silicone maybe? Keep up the good work!!

[BlueBall]

No temps to post just yet ... I am waiting for some R134a to refill the fridge. (My bad) I have not been able to run this rig "super cooled" yet ... except when I put in the dry ice :>

As for the HDD coolers ... fortunately I have lots of aluminum scraps to use ... I chose to use the bar that goes at the end of your chain-link fence to keep the links pulled tight. It is a perfect height for the coolers so I only needed to "J.B. Weld" the ends on. No leaks.

[toorude]

Very impressive, interesting to see what comes from people who think outside the box

[cornholio]

BlueBall, very impressive indeed... looks like your really having a good time at it as well (thats really whats it's all about). I have a question. I have been thinking of making hard drive water coolers for some time now. The one that you made, is it just attached to the drive? or are you using some kind of "goop" <--- (highly technical term) in between? more suface contact = more cooling. I know that Koolance has watercooled HD kits and they come with some stuff that you put on the drive (kinda thermal paste on steroids) but it looks messy, and permanent. As I have my own business (not computer related) I do have a complete machine shop at my disposal. so the actual manufacturing part won't be a problem.

[BlueBall]

I did not use any thermal compound. I think that may be 'extreme' ... but what the heck ... I'll try it :>

I will use 'regular' cheapie compound. On things that need to be more permanent I use the stuff in the pic. Not cheap. $30Cdn

The HDD mod was EASY. It has much more "cooled" surface area than any other HDD cooler I've seen. lemme know if I can help you any..

[toyomatt84]

Not looking shabby at all there blue, except for the color. I'm not too fond of racing stripes. But, this is your case after all.

[sonicdrive]

i dont give a 2 cents what everyone else says you deserve a A+ for your work and ideas thanks for reminding all of us if we use that gray thing between our ears anything can be a reality

[sonicdrive]

could you please post you harddrive pics what is the specks on the coolers and did you make them or by them ?? let us know

[VAdept]

If you could send me a PM with the cost of building one of those waterblocks I would be very interested.

[daniel_dynasty]

hey blue ball i will be willing to buy the purple stuff u got in ur case. im creating an all uv purple case and it will help a lot!

[FizzledFiend]

hey i wanna buy that ball of wire and ethernet cabling from ya..HAHa MOD ON!

[BlueBall]

Sonicdrive ... thx for the morale boost ... and as for the HDD coolers ... they are the standard "Ultimate Hard Drive Cooler" ... they come in blue anodized extruded aluminim with two small/loud fans. I am impressed how much heat is being removed from the SATA RAID0.

The heat load on my cooling system is much higher now. I am unaffected performance wise but I can definately tell I have added another heat source to the cooling system. Damn ... Where's my R134A!!!

[sonicdrive]

what is the specs on your heatsink how did it perform normal good bad can you give us the temps of a normal water cooling system along with yours ??

[BlueBall]

Lets break down the cost of my newly made waterblock.

All funds listed in CDN$ ... subtract 30-35% for US$

Copper round bar = $4
3/8" copper refrigeration coil (25') = $15
1/2" copper female-male 90 elbow (9 pcs) = $7
1/2" copper Tees (4) = $2
Brass 1/2" female threaded fittings (2) = $2
Threaded brass end plugs (4) = $3
Polypropalene NPFT hose fittings (2) = $5
Polycarbonate Plexiglass (recycled) = Free
Wing nut, springs, washers and bolts (4 ea) = $5

Looks like for a retail of $43 CDN or about $30 US and tons of skilled labour *hehehe* you can have one too!
Actually I spend CONSIDERABLY MORE than what is listed. It wouldn't surprise me if I spent $500. However, now I have a PLETHORA of supplies to do more mods. Besides ... I am a Construction Contractor by day and recycling materials can really help on a job or at home.

LONG LIVE THE POWER TOOL!

[BlueBall]

I can't do a FULL comparison just yet ... I need more data (when the fridge is running I will have enough data).
I just added two HDD coolers which will change my current temps by an unknown amount right now. There are nice little valves I installed to allow me to regulate water flow. (Water will ALWAYS take the path of LEAST resistance) Since I made a hybrid video card cooler I am able to divert all flow to the CPU if needed. Anyone who has a "Y" connector without a regulator (sorry to those who do) is simply HOPING that the water distibution is adequate.

I have been running a 'burn-in' all night and my CPU temp is 40C @ 2V (11x220)
The SATA drives have added atleast 8C to my overall temps.

I would do it ALL again ONLY SOONER if I had realized just how *quiet* and *cool* it can be in my office!

[PHILIP1193]

mate respect!!! i love them cooling block there so nice!!!

Phil

[obsolete]

Wow! Very nice & unique man. Your one of the few that can truely say, "I made my very own custom water cooling solution."

Your WB solution is a bit big for my taste, just because it would probably get in the way if I used it. Honestly at first glance, the first thought that comes to mind is I'm a bit leary about how big the heatsinks are & also if they would leak or not. I'm not trying to cut down this thread in any way. Thats just some first impressions or first glance point of views.

I'm very interested to see how this performs!! Good job blue!!

[BlueBall]

I appreciate the honesty ... I too was leery about using water again after my first disaster.
I have a smaller design in mind now. But it may not get built until I move my hardware INTO a smaller fridge. One day.

PS .. Backup your data often :>

[kenkun]

wow, very interesting/cool stuff....
I too, would also be interested in how your block performs. There seem to be a lot of bends in the design of your block. However, sometimes that doesn't matter as much as we think.
Lets see some performance numbers :)

[herbs97]

Hey blueball lookin sweet! By the way, what size tubing are you using I/D for the hard drive's & CPU.

[cornholio]

Thanks Blueball for the tip on the RTV... I will keep you posted on development.. since machining is no obstacle for me I'm looking for as much contact with the best conductive materials onto the hottest parts of the HDD. It's amazing how much box heat is generated from the HDD's and I think a well designed solution would be a welcome addition for everyone.
Feel free to convey any thoughts/concerns.
thanks again, and keep up the GREAT work.

PS
you really made me LOL when you mentioned thermal compound might be "too extreme" :D I never thought you would use that term.....

[daniel_dynasty]

hey blue any reponse to my post a few up from here?

[BlueBall]

sry Daniel Dynasty ... I have no warez for sale YET.

Watch my posts ... :drool:

[daniel_dynasty]

warez wtf u smokin lol. jus playin.

[BlueBall]

Herbs97 ... The ID of the tubing to the HDD cooler / Mosfet / Video Card is 3/8" ... while the CPU and everything after my valved "Y" is 1/2" ID

[BlueBall]

I still have to make a chipset cooler. Wonder what I'll think of for that? LOL

Not alot of room left .... it's gonna be small!

[UndyingClocker]

Im also cheapo on money but i am only 15 dont have much skills in making a wb...but im gonna try and make a watercooling kit for jus need a pump some hose and a nice res, and a radiator.

[JFettig]

you guys might want to watch it or youll be gone before you know it, read the rules.

[BlueBall]

you guys might want to watch it or youll be gone before you know it, read the rules.

Please enlighten us ... :temper:

[Busty St. Clair]

dude ur blocks are really well planned. like how u can turn off flow to ur gpu block. nice work.

[frodoski]

you guys might want to watch it or youll be gone before you know it, read the rules.

I think he may be referring to the dreaded (shhh!)...warez you mentioned! That is a verboten subject in these forums and by the rules will not be tolerated in any manner shape or form.

sry Daniel Dynasty ... I have no warez for sale YET.

Watch my posts ... :drool:

[squeakygeek]

I think he may be referring to the dreaded (shhh!)...warez you mentioned! That is a verboten subject in these forums and by the rules will not be tolerated in any manner shape or form.

Given the context, by warez I don't think he meant pirated software.

[BlueBall]

I am not here to sell/trade hardware or software. I didn't mean to imply it either. I'm here to inspire the young minds of tomorrow. Much like I was when I first saw the Tsunami case.

[herbs97]

I think he's talking about post#90! By the way have you tried a Cpu block out of 3/8 copper fittings yet? It will be smaller in size. Just wondering what the difference in temps would be. Mod on.

[TazExtreme3]

To straighten this up

daniel_dynasty wrote
hey blue ball i will be willing to buy the purple stuff u got in ur case. im creating an all uv purple case and it will help a lot!

And Blueball wrote in response
sry Daniel Dynasty ... I have no warez for sale YET.

Watch my posts ...
By warez, I think he means hardware?!!!!

[Phrenetical]

Would you guys just forget this warez crap

Hows the chipset cooling going man, i wanna see what crazy design you come up with, im assuming your not just using the fan that was on the NB.

[BlueBall]

Hows the chipset cooling going man, i wanna see what crazy design you come up with, im assuming your not just using the fan that was on the NB.

At this moment the NB fan is stock. It is next on my list. I'm gonna have to keep it small ... and it will be fueled by the 3/8" supply. I have an idea but I need to play with it some more ... :>

[herbs97]

Maybe you could notch the blue looking plexi thats holding down your cpu WB to give you more room.

[BlueBall]

By the way have you tried a Cpu block out of 3/8 copper fittings yet? It will be smaller in size. Just wondering what the difference in temps would be. Mod on.

Take a look back at the FIRST or second post ... my 3/8" block is there. Unique block it is... but after having troubles mounting it flush with the core and being that it's base is only slightly bigger than the core and smaller than the open space beneath the chip and inside the socket I am nevous about using it ... If I tighten it too much it could CRUSH my core into the mobo. (This was brought to my attention by a forum member (I forget who.. but thx)

I never had a problem with it during it's 6 month use. The temps were VERY close to what I have now. Unfortunately the comparison would be flawed due to the fact I have added alot of heat to this cooling system. I can say I hit 2.4Ghz stable ... I can hit 2.52Ghz stable with dry ice added to the resevoir. I plan to push this to the MAX when I fix the fridge.

[BlueBall]

Maybe you could notch the blue looking plexi thats holding down your cpu WB to give you more room.

Good idea ... but I already had to do that for the P/S .. lol

I'd rather not change that part ... it has my name on it :>

I think it's gonna be "U" shaped and approx 2" long horizontally but I'd still like to have a small fan attached somewhere incase I need to divert the coolant to the CPU for extreme clocking.

Just a thought .... I have considered changing my "Y" valve to sprinkler system regulated "Y" valve. This way I could program the "Y" to divert flow based on operating temps. Just a thought.

[herbs97]

Are you talking about a timer switch? I'm also in the construction trade, Just online paying some suppliers & switching from there to here.

[BlueBall]

Timer removed of course. The motor and it's limits will already be set so I should only have to apply power to open the valve. Whether or not the valves can open half-way however is another matter.

[herbs97]

Yeah what little i know about the sprinkler valve, I think their either open (full) or closed. the heads adjust the flow. So i think there maybe another mod in your future.

[matttheniceguy]

Wow, that is some impressive work.

I like the giant pipes on the WB, looks like such a beast.

You might have some trouble if you are planning to use nothing but that fridge to cool the water. With all the components you are watercooling, you are probably dumping something like 200-300 watts of heat into your water. I'm not sure if a fridge that size can handle that much load. Maby I'm totaly wrong and it will work fine, but if the fridge can't keep the water below ambient, you may need a radiator after the heat load and before the fridge.

[BlueBall]

I used to use a rad out of my old van. I am hoping the freezer cools the water down some before it hits the fridge resevoir. If not I will need to put a rad just before the fridge as you mentioned.

[BlueBall]

Does anyone know why the 'Water Wetter' has turned BLUE?

It was a bright shade of pink before.

Simply wierd!

[-=Mr_B=-]

a reaction with the dry ice?
No clue really, but why worry, looks neat.
Sickest yuckiest blue i seen in a while...
Really like the water block aswell.

B!

[BlueBall]

If it is a reaction it is delayed. The dry ice was a week or so ago. hmmm

:-/

[MoreGooder]

It's blue cuz its colder now!

j/k

Great job on this highly elaborate mod. I'll following the rest of this thread.

[BlueBall]

Perhaps the color is temperature related?!?!
I have just added several quarts (about a gallon) of cool distilled water to the warm resevoir (I have always used distilled) and the color has not changed.

I cannot explain this. The only thing I can think of is that the Water Wetter has had a chemical reaction with the stock blue anodized 'Ultimate Hard Drive Coolers' in my recent mod.

[Radical]

Looks really awesome. Really nice job.

[Moto7451]

I've done a little research on Water Wetter. Water Wetter is reportedly made up of dissolved Aerosol (I'm 100% sure its different from the propellant) or sodium dioctyl sulfosuccinate (probably 5% concentration).

From: Carl xxxxxx <xxxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol.
Date: May 1993
X-Sequence: 5376

>Fisher Scientific sells Aerosol. You can get it in solid form (100
>%) for $27 for 500g, (75% aqueous) $19.35 for 500ml, (10% clear, laboratory
>Aerosol) $54.25 for 4Liters.'

93/94 catalog prices are $33.40, $23.95, and $65.60, respectively. Phone #
is 1-800-766-7000. Aerosol is really the sodium salt of dioctyl
sulfosuccinate, a common surfactant. Aldrich Chemical has 99% pure
material for about the same price and 96% pure material for $23 for 1000 g.

>It's funny how redline also uses the term water wetter. I picked up
>the redline liquid water wetter (no lube or anticorrosives). I has
>the same odor as the 10% Aerosol. Except the redline has a weaker smell.
>My guess is that the redline is something like a 2 to 5 % solution
>(when starting from the 10% Aerosol).

>Anybody have any other ideas on how to figure out the concentration
>of the redline? Maybe weight?
>
>Rob
>gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil

Is the Redline sold as a solid or (I assume) a liquid solution? One way to
get an idea of total solids would be to take a known volume (100 to 200 ml)
and evaporate it to dryness in a pre-weighed beaker, if you have access to
a balance which can handle a few hundred grams at +/- .1 gram or so. How
expensive is the Redline WaterWetter?

Sodium dioctyl sulfosuccinate can be harmful if breathed in, consumed, or set on fire (when in solid form). Its chemical makeup is C20H37NaO7S.

Read more here (http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/DI/dioctyl_sulfosuccinate_sodium.html). Do not breath any of the evaporated water wetter! Google also showed it being used as an insecticide but I did not read up on that.

As for the blue water wetter I believe we're seeing a reaction occurring where your copper water blocks are being dissolved. The copper metal, which is made of pure copper atoms, is loosing copper atoms & forming a blue cupprus containing solution (cuprous is a type of copper ion [Cu 2+]). Copper Sulfate is an example of a compound containing cupprus. It is a blue chemical that is used to introduce reactions because when mixed with another chemical (already forgot my first day of chem class) is produces a yellow solid (solid Sulfur). Sulfur & Oxygen are both -2 when they bond with a metal so I believe your water blocks are slowly being turned into Copper Oxide for some reason even though they have chemicals to prevent that. Perhaps there is something in the hard drive coolers or tubing that reacted with the dry ice. I'm not sure what they're using to prevent oxidation (the mechanism probably at work here) but maybe its bonded with the Carbon (carbon is an easy bonder as it will bond with anything so long as it can make four bonds) from the dry ice (CO2). One person said his pump cracked when using it. See post 8 (http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=331416)

my recommendation is that you change your liquid to something different or at least remove the current solution & put a new batch of water wetter in, sealed so that you aren't inhaling it. You should test to see if my hypothesis is correct about the dry ice starting the problem if you have spare time. I don't have the money or the resources to do so. Should be interesting to see.

Also please note that a reaction can be very delayed. If I knew the whole reaction I could probably figure out the time it takes (but boy do I hate equilibrium & kinetics!!!! :D)

[Moto7451]

It may have also stripped the blue of of your anodized HD coolers but I don't know what they're using for that & how you'd remove anodizing (chemically) short of a reverse electroplating. I'm sure it can be done but I believe my theory is pretty close unless someone has actually done this before in a lab & can say otherwise.

[BlueBall]

GREAT POST Moto7451 ... I think I just earned another IQ point because I understand exactly what you described.

The very next time my system is down, for an upgrade or mod, I will swab my CPU block ... and if I deem worthy I will cut an end off one of my HDD coolers and see if the blue is faded or gone.
I wonder if it is more like electrostatic painting and less like anodizing. It seems like a semi-transparent finish. If so, then a mild alkalyne solvent would dissolve the finish.

I am dissapointed to find out that Water Wetter is harmful if inhaled. I am looking at the bottle now and it has no warning symbols ... it does say to drink a glass of water or milk if swallowed.

[tsulas]

It's not pure is it?

[BlueBall]

I removed the Water Wetter and I am now using distilled.

[lclark2074]

Good job very deferent

[Moto7451]

It's not pure is it?

It couldn't be pure since the chemical at work is a solid ;-). You may want to try running a sealed alchohol system like fighter jets use. 90% pure stuff would work well but if you have a leak in your system & it starts diffusing into the air it'll displace the oxygen in the room & give you quite the dizzy spell. Also you'd need a condenser for when it evaporates inside the sealed system. Also I don't think it was much of a concideration to let people know the water wetter is toxic if breathed in since its usually in a sealed radiator system or so I'd guess.

You have some cool stuff. Keep up the good work.

[lilneel12]

if you find out how you made your water blue, i want to know

thanks

[ogboot]

i may have a dumb question, where did you get the plastic elbows with quick connect fittings. i need a plastic elbow with quick connect fittings and swiftechs cost too much, i looked around on home depot asite and such

[Mark620]

Lets see here, you have the following ingredients:

systematic name is sulfobutanedioic acid 1,4-bis-(2-ethylhexyl) ester sodium salt. - C20H37NaO7S
Carbon Dioxide - CO2 (from the air and dry ice)
Oxygen - O2 (from the air)
Aluminum - Al
Aluminum Oxides - Al2O3
Copper - Cu
Nitrogen - N (from the air)

Plenty of raw materials for chemical reactions however the blue is an indicator of copper content...Or it could be Zinc oxide. Are you sure the HD collers are aluminum? Could they be Zinc? BTW if the blue is from the copper it is toxic. If it is a copper compound it is an agricultural poison.

[greenman100]

Wow, that is some impressive work.

I like the giant pipes on the WB, looks like such a beast.

You might have some trouble if you are planning to use nothing but that fridge to cool the water. With all the components you are watercooling, you are probably dumping something like 200-300 watts of heat into your water. I'm not sure if a fridge that size can handle that much load. Maby I'm totaly wrong and it will work fine, but if the fridge can't keep the water below ambient, you may need a radiator after the heat load and before the fridge.


to clarify, it does no matter where the rad is in the loop

temps are the same +-1C everywhere in a loop, given decent flow.

[Cyrix_2k]

to clarify, it does no matter where the rad is in the loop

temps are the same +-1C everywhere in a loop, given decent flow.
In this case it does matter. He's adding a LOT of heat into the water and if the water heats to above ambient temps, then a rad before the fridge WILL help temps, while a rad AFTER the fridge would greatly hurt temps...

[squeakygeek]

In this case it does matter. He's adding a LOT of heat into the water and if the water heats to above ambient temps, then a rad before the fridge WILL help temps, while a rad AFTER the fridge would greatly hurt temps...

If you're so confident, then let's see some math.

[greenman100]

If you're so confident, then let's see some math.


we will educate the people of this forum tag-team style

[greenman100]

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=282956&highlight=rad+placement

[BlueBall]

I would have to agree with Cyrix_2k ... here is a link where I added a rad and fan.

I wanted a moderator to join the threads but I was ignored. http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=310326 <-- If you havn't seen this link yet it may explain alot.

My fridge temps (passive still till I get the dang thing fixed) went down at full load by atleast 10C !! So I have decided to keep the rad on the return loop before the fridge. The idea is to expell the heat before my fridge needs to work EXTRA hard to cool it.

How can I tell the difference between Zinc and Aluminum after anodization. I had to 'notch' the ends and it appeared to be aluminum. I assumed the unit was electrically anodized but after seeing the chemical reaction, it may be only anodized looking paint. Much like I used throughout my case mod.


i may have a dumb question, where did you get the plastic elbows with quick connect fittings. i need a plastic elbow with quick connect fittings and swiftechs cost too much, i looked around on home depot asite and such
ogboot ... I found those NPF (Neoprene) fittings made by WATTS* at Home Depot. Goto the brass fittings/underground lawn sprinkler section. The fittings come in 3 thread sizes and 3 tube sizes. Tees, unions and adapters are there as well.

[Cyrix_2k]

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=282956&highlight=rad+placement
That doesn't address a water-chilled setup...

[squeakygeek]

That doesn't address a water-chilled setup...

No, but it is related to temperature drop across a radiator, but I'm not sure why greenman linked to it, because there is no math in it. Here is some math:

How about we inject a little bit of science into the equation eh?

Let's assume we have a Danner Mag 3, being a 35W pump. In actuality the pump will draw a low less power, but let's run with 35W.

Let's assume that the pump dumps all 35W of its power as heat into the water as the water flows through the pump.

Water has a thermal capacity of 4186 J/kg°C. Water has a density of 1.00

Let's assume that the flow rates through the system is 2GPM, or 7.5LPM, which is fairly reasonable given that pump and a moderate-high restriction block, or two low-moderate restriction blocks, and a low-restriction radiator.

Per second, 7.5/60 = 0.125l, or 0.125kg of water flows through the pump, for a total thermal capacity of 4186 * 0.125 = ~523W/°C

Keeping that the pump dumps 35W of heat into the water, then the water will rise by 35/523 = 0.067°C as it flows through the pump.

So the difference between having the radiator before/after the pump is just 0.067°C

So there's the mathematical/physics way to disprove the misconception.
http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=2384737&postcount=13

Let's say that in this situation, the cpu gives off 105 watts. This way, we can just multiply the 35 watts X 4 to get the total heatload, and multiply the resulting temperature differential of .067C X 4

This results in a 0.268C increase across all heatloads, meaning a 0.268C drop across the radiator in equillibrium. It's all about equillibrium, not about in-line temperature differentials. Do you see how this relates to the scenario in this thread? If not, let me explain furthur. There are two possibilities. One is that you will achieve sub-ambient temps, the other is that you won't.

Let's say with the radiator, the chiller is able to achieve below ambient water temperatures. Even just 1C below ambient. The water leaves the chiller, and across the heatloads it gains 1/4C. Now, when it gets to the radiator, it's still 3/4C below ambient, so the radiator hurts you by warming the water. Obviously, the lower the coolant temp below ambient, the more the radiator will hurt you.

The other possibility is that you won't achieve sub-ambient temps, which would defeat the purpose of the chiller in the first place.

Anyone out there still think it's reasonable to use a radiator to "help out" a chiller? I think I pretty well dis-proved it, but what do you guys think?

[Moto7451]

Lets see here, you have the following ingredients:

systematic name is sulfobutanedioic acid 1,4-bis-(2-ethylhexyl) ester sodium salt. - C20H37NaO7S
Carbon Dioxide - CO2 (from the air and dry ice)
Oxygen - O2 (from the air)
Aluminum - Al
Aluminum Oxides - Al2O3
Copper - Cu
Nitrogen - N (from the air)

Plenty of raw materials for chemical reactions however the blue is an indicator of copper content...Or it could be Zinc oxide. Are you sure the HD collers are aluminum? Could they be Zinc? BTW if the blue is from the copper it is toxic. If it is a copper compound it is an agricultural poison.

Very true Mark. It could be either Copper ion or Zinc oxide. We'll just need to find out for sure what the coolers are.

To test it take a piece of aluminum & try to scratch the HD coolers. If you can scratch the piece of aluminum with the cooler as well as scratch the cooler with the aluminum you probably have aluminum hard drive coolers. If you scratch one but not the other then you have something else more than likely (if I remember right Zinc is softer than Aluminum).

[BlueBall]

I assume it is alluminum by the texture and and ease at which it was alterered for the mod.


About the rad situation .... I would agree that IF i can achieve below ambient temps the rad will need to be after the heatload so I cool heated water vs heat cooled water. Say that three time fast.

[ogboot]

oh yeah thanks blue ball, headed to home depot now :P

[greenman100]

No, but it is related to temperature drop across a radiator, but I'm not sure why greenman linked to it, because there is no math in it. Here is some math:

Because it was the first thing I found before I had to leave for work.



Anyone out there still think it's reasonable to use a radiator to "help out" a chiller? I think I pretty well dis-proved it, but what do you guys think?

A rad will help a chiller, but only if the loop at equlibrium is above ambient, as the rad can still bring temps to ambient.

However, it is impossible ot cool the water before the chiller, as it is in a loop....thus placement does not matter.

[matttheniceguy]

He isn't just cooling his cpu, he is cooling his cpu, videocard and hard drives. I don't know exactly what the thermal output of all this is, but I would guess it to be somewhere north of 300 watts.

Your quite right that if the water coming out of the computer is below ambient, the radiator is compleatly pointless. My point was more that if the fridge can't handle all that heat then the water wont be below abmient and the rad will lower temps. Putting the rad after the heat load instead of before it will ensure that the water passes through the rad when it is at it's highest temperature. The temperarture difference through the loop may be less than a degree, but it will still work better with the hottest water going through the rad.

[greenman100]

The temperarture difference through the loop may be less than a degree, but it will still work better with the hottest water going through the rad.

:thup: less that 1C different to be exact

[squeakygeek]

He isn't just cooling his cpu, he is cooling his cpu, videocard and hard drives. I don't know exactly what the thermal output of all this is, but I would guess it to be somewhere north of 300 watts.

Your quite right that if the water coming out of the computer is below ambient, the radiator is compleatly pointless. My point was more that if the fridge can't handle all that heat then the water wont be below abmient and the rad will lower temps. Putting the rad after the heat load instead of before it will ensure that the water passes through the rad when it is at it's highest temperature. The temperarture difference through the loop may be less than a degree, but it will still work better with the hottest water going through the rad.

Like greenman said, a radiator will only help a chiller if the equillibrium temp is above ambient, but if this is the situation, then a chiller is pointless.

[BlueBall]

You all forgot (or missed) that I am cooling the mosfet chips too.
I agree there is alot of heat being discharged from my system. I actually thought it might get too cold and start condensating on my block and lines when I chill it. (Thats why I used that silicone coating)

If this happens alot then I will have no choice but to MOVE the ENTIRE rig inside the fridge where ambient is lower.

Once again .... I still wait for the HVAC guy.

[greenman100]

If this happens alot then I will have no choice but to MOVE the ENTIRE rig inside the fridge where ambient is lower.


Actually, your other choice is to fill your CPU socket with dielectric grease, insulate the backside of the mobo with neoprene, and read Then post) in the extreme cooling section to get anything I missed

[Moto7451]

I don't think a fridge will help lower your ambient for very long. The heat of the system will probably raise the heat in the air to a level which the fridge can't compensate & you could end up with a warmer environment.

[lclark2074]

Actually, your other choice is to fill your CPU socket with dielectric grease, insulate the backside of the mobo with neoprene, and read Then post) in the extreme cooling section to get anything I missed
the amount insulation you nead is realated to amount of temp drop. back side insulaton may not be neasery?
rember you doint want to insulate and bring parts of motherboard to hi eather this may burn caps and mofsets.

[BlueBall]

As it is right now (fridge unplugged) .. the water is at ambient (or very close)

That rad had brought temps down alot!! What I found was when the system was doing burn-ins or load tests over long periods (overnight) the water temps steadily increased until eventually (usually after Sisoft burn-in) I run FarCry. Maybe 30 minutes or so into it I place my hand on one of the HDD coolers only to find it VERY warm. I open the fridge and there is condensation everywhere. This is approx the point at which I crank the GPU fan and reduce CPU voltages from 2.2V down to 1.9V and lower the FSB by 5 or 10.
Since I run Corsair LL modules I can run at 2-3-2-11 when I lower the FSB 10Mhz to 215mhz

I am going to try a molex mod I saw a couple days ago ... It has a capacitor between the 12V and GND which smoothes the voltage spike during initial spin up. I'll put the link here when I find it.

[Shadowcat]

That thing is awesome... Don't think I have ever seen work like it.. very nicely done!

[BlueBall]

Please visit the new case mod thread I started a while ago. The two threads should have been merged ages ago. Now I fear it's out of control :beer:


Project: OverMOD by Blueball click here (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=310326)

[lclark2074]

what is your RH around there there shuld not be condasition with a 1c drop below ambint

[matttheniceguy]

here's a little chart showing temperature down the left, RH along the top, and Dew Points for either condition:

Air Temp
ºC % Relative Humidity

100 95 90 85 80 75 70 65 60 55 50 45 40 35 30 25 20 15 10
43 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 35 34 32 31 29 27 24 22 18 16 11 5
41 41 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 29 28 27 24 22 19 17 13 8 3
38 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 30 29 27 26 24 22 19 17 14 11 7 0
35 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 27 26 24 23 21 19 17 15 12 9 4 0
32 32 31 31 29 28 27 26 24 23 22 20 18 17 15 12 9 6 2 0
29 29 28 27 27 26 24 23 22 21 19 18 16 14 12 10 7 3 0
27 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 19 18 17 15 13 12 10 7 4 2 0
24 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 14 13 11 9 7 5 2 0
21 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 10 8 7 4 3 0
18 18 17 17 16 15 14 13 12 10 9 7 6 4 2 0
16 16 14 14 13 12 11 10 9 7 6 5 3 2 0
13 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 4 3 2 1 0
10 10 9 8 7 7 6 4 3 2 1 0
7 7 6 6 4 4 3 2 1 0
4 4 4 3 2 1 0
2 2 1 0
0 0

just remember that when it rains the relative humidity is 100 (might not be in your house though), so if you are even slightly below ambient you will get condensation.

[9mmCensor]

That is a crazy block.

And the dry ice pic... were quite sweet.


great work.

[BlueBall]

That is a crazy block.

And the dry ice pic... were quite sweet.


great work.


Thanks alot!! ... I've been too busy to MOD lately but keep an eye on THIS LINK (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=310326) for updated mods
:beer:

[threeme2189]

man that is niiiice!!!
cool pink looking water thingy!
and that is a PHAT block (cool word)

[alinosa]

when i had water wetter in my loop i always got nauseous whenever i smelled it! got rubbing alcohol and highlighter-juice in it now plus my waterlines match the slots on my lanparty mobo.

[BlueBall]

when i had water wetter in my loop i always got nauseous whenever i smelled it! got rubbing alcohol and highlighter-juice in it now plus my waterlines match the slots on my lanparty mobo.

There is food coloring that will do exactly the same thing.

I recommend using some Dexron automotive anti-freeze if you want red/pink color. Or the standard green will do. Both have anti-corrosion and lubrication quailties.

Water Wetter + Dry Ice = Water Wetter vapour = Vomit :eek:

[BlueBall]

Custom GPU waterblock (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=310326&page=1&pp=50) *Updated Thread*

[thegreek]

lookin very good

[eatmyshorts7569]

nicly don.