Tom's Hardware 'Alienware video array benchmarks leaked to the web' <

[Th0r]

Just browsing through some news sites and i seen this, what do you all think?

http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040618_201209.html

[Quattro]

Cool.
Nice find!

[bobmanfoo]

thats awesome, but its ludacris to spend $5,000 on a gaming rig.....jack move :santa:

[DayUSeX]

daaamn i might need to pick up one of those bad boys.

[9mmCensor]

77% preformance increase huh?
its not double the preformance (not perfectly effecient).
and the price is far more than double, what a good single card system will cost.

[TenementFunster]

daaamn i might need to pick up one of those bad boys.
Flaming and personal attacks are not tolerated on these forums. It's too bad, as I would have much rather given you a hearty welcome to the forums than a warning. -- macklin01

[9mmCensor]

Flaming and personal attacks are not tolerated on these forums. It's too bad, as I would have much rather given you a hearty welcome to the forums than a warning. -- macklin01

Spend less time critizing peoples use of language....

[JigPu]

Flaming and personal attacks are not tolerated on these forums. It's too bad, as I would have much rather given you a hearty welcome to the forums than a warning. -- macklin01

That came out of nowhwere.....
While his language is indeed not 100% perfect, it isn't exactly horrible either. The only problem I see with it is a lack of capitilization, which is fairly common here.

Welcome to the forum, and please DON'T flame others (for spelling or other stuff). :)
JigPu

[stan03]

how do you use two vid cards in one system? is one PCI or something?

[9mmCensor]

how do you use two vid cards in one system? is one PCI or something?
no new alienware thing that runs two highend vid cards, working together.... i guess someone was looking thru a drawer and found a Voodoo2 and said, "that would be cool to have again" and vola

[darthdana]

This cant be rocket science, looking at the PCI Express Specs, I dont see how Alienware can keep this to themselves, and thus 5000 dollars cost. Abit or Gigabyte have to be looking at this, or perhaps even a high video card vendor like BFG or whatnot. Granted the mobo wont be cheap, but 600 to 800 is better than 5000.

[9mmCensor]

Granted the mobo wont be cheap, but 600 to 800 is better than 5000.
600 - 800?

thats quite too much. if you pay 5000 for boutique prices, plus two video cards and an assortment of highendish hardware, then 5000 is a ok price

[darthdana]

600 - 800?

thats quite too much. if you pay 5000 for boutique prices, plus two video cards and an assortment of highendish hardware, then 5000 is a ok price


800+400(vid card)+400(vid card2)+400(RAM)+300 DRIVES+300MISC = 2200 for bare bones system, add 1000 for phase, thats 3200, 1800 left for beer and a copy of doom3

[kiyoshilionz]

What's this video array thing? I didn't read the whole article and I haven't heard about it, but I'm guessing it's like RAID-0 for video cards, run two of them in parallel and double the power (but performance isn't doubled due to inefficiencies or whatever).

[DayUSeX]

welcome to the forums tenantmentfunders!!!! (yeah butchered sp)
newayz,
still 77% improvement over what is currently top of the line is amazing in my POV. Still like others have said, im sure some other company will come out with an equivalent and alienware will have to lower the price some, mb then ill buy one, or most likely i will just buy the mobo. Still very very cool, i wanna buy one, sale the 6800's and pus two quadro 3000 in there and run some 60billion polygon, 4 gi, 8 million ray traced light scene in max just to see if will give me 1 frame a second

[Section8]

:burn: :burn: :burn:

[madcow235]

I love how they use JUST 3dmark, we all know that cant be optimized at all. Anyways i read they have been able to do upwards of 4 cards

[Hardin]

Voodoo 2s were fun. :burn:

[stan03]

well even if its 3d mark that has been optimized unless they only optimize after running the single card bench, the 77% difference still stands.

[Dragonprince]

77% preformance increase huh?
its not double the preformance (not perfectly effecient).
and the price is far more than double, what a good single card system will cost.

To coin a phrase, "You get what you pay for."

I wish I could afford/justify the cost myself. To me Alienware, VoodooPC and maybe FalconNW are the same as Ferrari, Porsche and Aston Martin. You simply can not match the experience buying parts yourself and slapping them together. These companies install and tweak your hardware and software, have fantastic support, and offer unsurpased service. It's the same feeling you get once you've driven a Porsche or Ferrari and you realize the only thing they have in common with a Chevy or Toyota is 4 wheels.....

[madcow235]

well i hardly consider Alienware anywhere near the ferarri of computers, its maybe the Ford GT of computers, its nice but a riced out civic can beat it :). You also have to realize they dont really tweak anything like we do. We are running settings they wish for, they cant overclock they are under warranty. This little Video card thing is the one and only thing that Alienware has that we dont.

[Kenshiro]

I think Alienware has 2 reasons to charge so much.

1) The ratio of cost to performance probably goes up exponentially.

2) They are the only one who came up with that system. There is no way you can get an identical system, unless you buy from them. So, I think this will be the primary reason that they are charging so much.

Just my 2 cents..........

[d4rr3n]

In one of the benchmarks it got a 102% improvement which is more than double. How is it possible to get more than double? I would think that by adding a second card you wouldn't be able to do more than double what 1 card is capable of. Maybe it is erroneous or it uses some kind of cheat. Meh. :-/

[SpaceyWilly]

I don't agree with the ferrari/porsche analogy. You can have more fun in a porsche than you can in a tricked out Civic, maybe just because of the coolness of the car, but also because sports cars are built from the ground up to be fast and fun. A civic, on the other hand, is built to be a family sedan, and when people tweak them they become ad hoc sports cars. With computers, the only advantage of buying an alienware or other expensive prefab computer is that a) you get good customer service and b) you don't have to build anything. You don't get the coolness of a porsche and you don't get any performance increase of a self-built pc.

I think that this video card array is interesting, but I see it becoming exactly what raid is today, something that you only get if you really really want to squeeze more permance out of your computer and don't mind spending twice as much money to get that second vid card (or hard drive for raid).

[Sardaan]

When this technology makes it to the OEM folks it will be must have for serious gaming IMHO. Although I do understand that buy two four or five hundred dollar cards is going to be cost prohibitive for many people.

[Doumz]

Note also that to use the 2 vid card at full power,they use dual Xeon


So to calculate the price

Mobo
Gfx1
Gfx2
Cpu1
Cpu2

[WheaT]

Ouch.........I dont like my calculated price. :P

[Busty St. Clair]

i'm surprised they didn't go dual opteron since opterons game better. imagine the large psu's they'll need to power that. atleast 530 watt minimum.

[manny2326]

i wish i had twin GF6800 in my rig. its a nice system though but i dont think i will ever pay 5k for a computer to play games. i rather buy 30 XBOX with 30 copies of counter strike and make a lan party with all my friends J/K. but still its alot of money.

[stan03]

i'm surprised they didn't go dual opteron since opterons game better. imagine the large psu's they'll need to power that. atleast 530 watt minimum.

i think that one of the psus offered on the other destop is the pc power and cooling 510 Deluxe, im bet it will be offered for this system too

[nealric]

You simply can not match the experience buying parts yourself and slapping them together.

Yup, you can do better :D

Seriously, I can make a better tweaked computer. Better looking, Better performing, and lower cost.

The difference between cars and computers is that cars take a huge factory to make. Computers can be assembled in 30min in your bedroom.

Anyways, my real beef with the alienware thing is that it is proprietary.
Its one more strike against overclockers (along with the intel FSB lock BS). The enthusiast right now can and SHOULD have the highest performing computers. They are the ones who appreciate them. Alienware is not an enthusiast computer, it is a rich mans computer.

Example: Today I was called over to work on a neighbors computer. It "ran slow". Expecting another dell celeron job I headed over. To find... that my wealthy neighbor had a top of the line ABS compter. 3ghz p4, sata raid, 9800pro, gig of low latency ram at 2-3-3-6 (mind you this was a year old machine).

She used it for browsing and internet :rolleyes: And it was running like absolute crap from the 5,000 (not an exaggeration) spyware files that she had accumulated.

This will be the sad fate of too many of these alienware concotions.

(end rant)

I can only hope we get the option soon.

[WheaT]

I just went into the alienware site and configed a watercooled computer that is top of the line and it came out at 5500 dollars. I then went to newegg and configed basically the same system, with the wcing parts coming from dangerden and the system came out to 4100........What does that tell you?

[Kenshiro]

I just went into the alienware site and configed a watercooled computer that is top of the line and it came out at 5500 dollars. I then went to newegg and configed basically the same system, with the wcing parts coming from dangerden and the system came out to 4100........What does that tell you?

Tells me that the extra $1400 Alienware charges goes towards the cost to hire the people to build that system, guarantee that the system will run at overclock speed without crashing, provide customer service, and still provide warranty.

Getting items from newegg.com: Build the system myself (always an enjoyable experience), not sure how far my system can o/c, have to troubleshoot the comp if it crashes or breaks down, and void warranty on my some of the components because I overclock it.

[madcow235]

Alienware cant overclock. its locked on the comps so it doesnt even matter. And an Alienware isnt going to touch a good designed comp

[Busty St. Clair]

um kenshiro alienware doesn't oc anything. although u might be able to oc the xeons through jumpers since they're multiplyer unlocked.

[tjr1973]

Don't know if anyone has posted this already but someone was asking how this video array works. I was watching a program on G4/Tech TV and they showed how it works. Basically one video card projects/runs the top half of the monitor and the the other card runs the bottom. To me this explains how it can be more than double the speed also. That'd be like cutting your resolution in half as well as being assisted by another video card. They showed the system running just half the screen on a bunch of games.

[Kenshiro]

OIC.... I'm always under the impression that Alienware's system came overclocked... "where the heck did I get that idea?"

If their system is not overclock, I'm just curious why do they want to run liquid cool? For looks, or for noise???

[nealric]

So they can say its watercooled of course :D

And they are right, alienware does NOT oc. (although it is possible to find high end oems that do)

[WheaT]

This company does oc. www.go-l.com Their mach systems have vapo chill cases and are clocked high.

Ken, dont get me wrong, if I was going to buy a desktop system already built by someone it would prob be either from dell or alienware, however the extra cost in price is just insane that if anyone that has the knowledge to build their own computer and opted instead to purchase one of those doesnt have thier head on straight. Except of course if they have technology that isnt available to the rest of the market.

WheaT

[SysCrusher]

Here's a pic I found of it. Kind of like the old voodoo.

http://mediaviewer.ign.com/ignMediaPage.jsp?media_id=2137647&article_id=515363&channel_id=192&page_title=E3+2004%3A+Alienware+Video+Array+and+X2&adtag=network%3Dign%26size%3D468x60%26channel%3Dge ar%26site%3Dgear_hub%26channel%3Dhardware%26type%3 Dpartner

[mrgreenjeans]

That PCI express board sure looks tiny. But, back on subject, today's advancement is tomorrow's run of the mill. back in the day, who would've thought dual harddrives would be "necessary" to run a computer. I carried my office rig into the local service center (never do that again, his method of repair is "gotta wipe the harddrive") and he told me I couldn't boot off a RAID array, :attn: and....how did dual processors work? And why? Why, cause I can! :cool:
So in a year or two we'll all be here trying to figure out how to get a ATI and nVidia to run in tandem so we can get the benefits of both worlds!

[Kenshiro]

[QUOTE=mrgreenjeans]But, back on subject, today's advancement is tomorrow's run of the mill. back in the day, who would've thought dual harddrives would be "necessary" to run a computer.

:attn: and....how did dual processors work? And why? Why, cause I can! :cool:
QUOTE]


You know something, I never even thought about that. You are right. We already have systems that runs on dual processors and dual harddrives. Why should we be so surprise about dual vid card???

Interesting... very interesting........

I think alienware should sell their dual vid card mobo seperately at a reasonable price. Alienware can dominate the mobo industry this way.

[Busty St. Clair]

they could but then people have no reason to buy their comps. example some people say that apple should make and sell mac osx for x86. many people say they should but if they did what the hell is the point of buying a mac.

[mrgreenjeans]

I doubt they will be able to keeep the technology proprietary for very long. Some one will have to manufacture the mobos after all. The article I read referred to special bus that allowed the video signal to be split for processing then reunited for display.

[Busty St. Clair]

of course they can't keep it proprietary for ever. just we have to wait for another chipset to comeout with dual pci x since intel only gave rights to alienware to use it. i think some server mobos for opterons have dual pci x.

[wannaoc]

Ok so you get a 77% increase in performance but the score was still extremely low. With that system overclocking will be nill except for some software stuff so that score won't get much better. Why spend 5k on a system when for under 1k you can get 2 or 3 times that score and overall system performance. It's just another chance for alienware to take advantage of the suckers.

[TheGreySpectre]

i suppose you could spend LOTs of money a significantly improved system and then spend another 5k everytime you need an upgrade

or...

if you want to spend that much money buy a really nice AMD64 or opteron system with 2 yes 2 phase change coolers stick 1 the cpu 1 on the gpu have fun overclocking than buy a the newest lastest greastest video card every time it comes out

me I think I will jsut stick with my 9800 PRO as it suits me just fine

[TheGreySpectre]

This company does oc. www.go-l.com Their mach systems have vapo chill cases and are clocked high.

Ken, dont get me wrong, if I was going to buy a desktop system already built by someone it would prob be either from dell or alienware, however the extra cost in price is just insane that if anyone that has the knowledge to build their own computer and opted instead to purchase one of those doesnt have thier head on straight. Except of course if they have technology that isnt available to the rest of the market.

WheaT

Why not Falcon-NW cheaper excellent customer service rating and if you look most of the time whenever a semi large company needs to have a system to show off there new hardware they get Falcon Northwest to do it


Sorry for the double post

[Kenshiro]

Same here, I will also still stick to my 9800pro.

$400 - $600 for the X800 or the 6800 is just too much for my blood. The cost of the vid card will suck me dry............

[Hardin]

Ok so you get a 77% increase in performance but the score was still extremely low. With that system overclocking will be nill except for some software stuff so that score won't get much better. Why spend 5k on a system when for under 1k you can get 2 or 3 times that score and overall system performance. It's just another chance for alienware to take advantage of the suckers.
THe 3Dmark scores were low because it was at max details and 1600 X 1200. It was not the default benchmark.

[jtjuska]

I think what would be a great use for that dual x16 mobo is some custom RAID cards. Imagine the harddrive bandwidth. hahahahahahahah

[SysCrusher]

Here's another link for you guys. I know it's from Tom's *cough* but it's a look into what is coming up next. Looks like Nvidia is in the game too. I wouldn't be surprised if ATI follows suit.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040628/index.html

[mrgreenjeans]

Man are we getting pricey or what? Lemme see. Two 6800 ultras or x800xt's, take you pick, 2 @ $499, plus a PCIexpress dual 16x slot mobo, $450+ based on Asus's P5 series deluxe retailing currently @ $350, plus the cost of the connector, say $25, $1473 plus tax equals $1576.00. And you'd better be thinking about a new monitor for all that eye candy, whew! That's almost more than I've got in my whole rig currently.
But wouldn't it be sweet?
Oops, I almost forgot to add in the power supply to juice the dual molex's on the ultra's! :santa2:
It will take Santa to afford that puppy!

[Busty St. Clair]

i don't think that ati cards will be able to be run in array in the x*** series. nvidia designed their 6**** cards with array in mind on the gpu and with the transport links. just my 2 cents.

[mrgreenjeans]

True. I'm bad.
But they'll get in the game one way or the other.

[djs488]

wow did u guys check out the monitors at that go-l.com. not only does the technology look impressive, its quite a large monitor. and i hope it would be with a tag of 18 grand. i mean, thats 4x $4,250 monitors, so that technology better be REAL good.

[SysCrusher]

Won't PCIexpress encompass all add on cards in the future? IF so I don't see it being a biggy for ATI then. Probably nothing but a driver change. Then again I'm no electronic engineer.

[autoMATTic]

well i hardly consider Alienware anywhere near the ferarri of computers, its maybe the Ford GT of computers, its nice but a riced out civic can beat it :). You also have to realize they dont really tweak anything like we do. We are running settings they wish for, they cant overclock they are under warranty. This little Video card thing is the one and only thing that Alienware has that we dont.

LMAO, I dont think you have a clue as to what you just said in your analogy. Do you know which car the Ford GT is. It's the one that costs over 100,000, 500+hp, and runs neck and neck with a Dodge Viper. You obviously must be thinking of a Mustang GT and for a Civic to beat that it has to be really "riced out".

[autoMATTic]

The difference between cars and computers is that cars take a huge factory to make. Computers can be assembled in 30min in your bedroom.


Right.

[radium]

Welcome to the forums Doumz and Sardaan!

I'm looking forward to the dual graphic cards leaking out into the public. 2X 6800 Pro's :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Busty St. Clair]

um for ati to be in the video card array market they need the capabilities on the gpu. u can't just take a random card and make an array. u have to have a card with the transport links built in.