Dialectic grease + Prometeia heating element?

Dielectric grease + Prometeia heating element?

Hey guys. I'm trying to beef up my insulation and I need some help.

I have a Prometeia Mach 1 and I haven't been using dielectric greese to insulate my mobo's components around the cpu socket and the back of the board, and I almost learned my lesson the expensive way...

I was running my system as always, just checking my o/c, seeing if I could go higher, ect... when I came back to my machine after being away for a few hours and found that my system had completely hard-locked. I thought it was a little odd a first, as usually my system will just reboot if I push it too far. Anyways, I went to reboot the system, and I couldn't even get my machine to POST. I tried everything I could think of, but I still couldn't get my machine to boot up.

I ended up taking my entire system apart and started testing each individual component out in my secondary rig. I had it narrowed down to being either my CPU or my motherboard. Well when I removed the Prometeia back side heating element (comes standard with Mach II units) from my motherboard, I noticed that there was this weird yellow-green residue on top of some of the components and leads that had been underneath the heating element. It looked like corrosion to me.

Anyways, I cleaned this residue off of the components with some isopropyl alchohal and made sure that everything was clean. I put my system back together, just using air cooling for now, and hit the power button. It booted up, and everything is working like new again.

So obviously it was this residue (corrosion?) on the back of my motherboard that was causing some the leads to short out and prevent my system from working properly. I want to keep this from happening again, so I read up on insulation for extreme cooling, ect, and I'm now going to cover the cpu socket and all the socket holes with dielectric grease. Now I also want to cover the back part of the board, where the heating element is placed, as that is the problem area for whatever reason.

My question is: do I still use the heating element with the dielectric grease covering the back of my board? Or do I just keep the heating element unplugged, but still mount the plastic frame to the back of the board, with the dielectric grease still covering the components?

yes use the heater, just use a thin coat of the grease. make sure its the right stuff. some dont have the effective use temp ranges as good as others so make sure its within what temps you need it.
ill post a pic of what i use.

here is what i use

Thank you very much.

so you just take some that and put it on the heating element....and not worry about it....

dont put it on the heat pad, but on the MB, i just use a very thin layer applied with a brush. ask a woman for a small brush, they always have stuff like that somehow.
i placed the back in place, traced with a marker, then measured in some for the thickness of the back plate itself, made marks so i didnt get any grease where the seal string goes. it will keep the string from sealing if it gets between the MB and the string.

Thats the same grease I use on my homemade units, works great, get mine at Napa Autoparts where you get yours from Rhino?

Zork said:

Thats the same grease I use on my homemade units, works great, get mine at Napa Autoparts where you get yours from Rhino?

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richards automotive

I don't use the heating element. I cut a neoprene gasket to fit between the backplate and the mobo, and covered the back of the mobo in dielectric grease. I also filled the socket, slug, and the area around the socket inside the mounting kit with grease. In the slug I cut another gasket to fit under the proc inside the slug. I have never had condensation issues, and don't add heat to the system with the heating element.

gouda96 said:

I don't use the heating element. I cut a neoprene gasket to fit between the backplate and the mobo, and covered the back of the mobo in dielectric grease. I also filled the socket, slug, and the area around the socket inside the mounting kit with grease. In the slug I cut another gasket to fit under the proc inside the slug. I have never had condensation issues, and don't add heat to the system with the heating element.

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ive thought of doing it like that since that would be pretty normal and is what people with chillers/pelts/cascade's use pretty often.
i tried it without the heating element and it made no difference in my temps so i just didnt mess with it.

so if it doenst hurt the temps at all i guess i will be putting mine on, as well as with dielectric grease. im putting my prommie together now =P

Just remember that air is the enemy. It doesn't make sense to seal in air and add heat when you could just keep the air out. I would go with grease and neoprene. I don't understand paying $500 for something to remove heat, but then put something into the system that adds heat.

Has anyone ever plugged in the heating element before installing it to see how much heat it actually produces? Trick, could you do that, I would be interested to know.

i dont like the idea of a heating element myself. but for people useing stock prommy and vapos it would make sense to run it as recomended.

anyhow i use the dielectric grease myself. and sad to say my modded evap takes almost a full tube the size posted above to seal it correctly.

also not all neoprene seems to be equal. the guy i bought my prommy from gave me a few peices that were cut just for this rig.they smashed and compressed over time and dont seal well now.

as a replacement ive been using $1 mouse pads lol
i slather the covered meterial side with grease and let it soak into the fibers.
but it works well so far.
if useng no heater on the backside as i do i have to insulate extremly well or i get a "cold spot" condinsation threw 1 layer of neoprene and 3/4" plexi glass backing.
i added 2 layers of 1/4" adhesive neoprene and its fine.

I had like 100 mousepads lying around that I had collected over the years, and now about 75 of them have holes in them, or have been hacked into small pieces. I have heard people having corrosion problems and condensation problems with just the heating element, so even if you did use it it would be smart to atleast put grease on the back of the socket, and probably smart to still use a neoprene gasket aswell.

gouda96 said:

I had like 100 mousepads lying around that I had collected over the years, and now about 75 of them have holes in them, or have been hacked into small pieces. I have heard people having corrosion problems and condensation problems with just the heating element, so even if you did use it it would be smart to atleast put grease on the back of the socket, and probably smart to still use a neoprene gasket aswell.

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What he said for sure!!!! I rather be safe than sorry.

that green residue smelled like burnt peanuts didnt it? hehe yah I fried a few mobos in my early years messing with extreme cooling methods.

The heatpads produce small amounts of heat, just enough to make sure the rear side of the mobo doesnt get to the condensating point, it has absolutely nothing to do with adding higher in case temps, nor does it take from the CPUs temps, otherwise we'd be cooling the pins as well if it did matter. It basically is a safety measure, but a safety measure that is used by ALL vapor cooling companies, my mach I and mach II units have a shallow "shell" that applies to the back of the mobo with a heatpad inside it, while my vapo LS uses a metal plate, then a heatpad, and neoprene foam, making a saftey "sandwhich", while on vapo LS winCC allows you to manually turn up or down the heatpads, there is no difference in temps when there at the highest or lowest setting.


Ive got pictures here somewhere on how to properly install all the mach I and mach II elements, I remember I helped Rhino through this a while back, or maybe it was rhinos friend I cant remember, but basically on your new mobo just put a thin layer of non conductive acid free silicon over the exact spots that you now see that are green and corroded and smell like burnt peanuts..

I have seen several mobos get fried due to condensation when only using the heating element, so it isn't nearly as effective as neoprene and grease. Even if the heat from the element is added to the back of the mobo it will still affect your proc's temps (this difference might be incredibly small. That is why many people will insulate much past the mounting unit, you want to insulate anything that is cold. This is not to prevent corrosion or condensation, but rather insulating in the cold. Many people will cover their entire mobo front and back with seal string or armaflex to reduce temps. Thinking that the core of the cpu and the pins are some how completely independent of one another doesn't make much sense.

How to install the heating element is not in question, but whether or not to use it, and I don't think you should and if you do dielectric grease and neoprene should still be added because it doesn't do it's job perfectly.

Like I said before, when installed CORRECTLY, there should be no condensation what so ever. I have never met or seen anyone apply seal string over their entire front and back of the motherboard, and that would defeat the purpose of buying a vaporcooling unit, since adding seal string and/or insulating the entire front and back would trap the transistors and capacitors heat, making the board prone to more overheating.

Corrosion is only caused when air gets inside the sealed area, then condensation forms e.t.c , so if the area is sealed properly, there is not corrosion.

As for the Core and CPU, I never said they were completely independant, just that the CPU pins, do not make or break stability when overclocking whatsoever, otherwise youd see people trying methods to cool the backside of the mobo. The point is to cool the IHS, which in turn will cool the core, which the IHS covers. ALthough Im not saying that having the pins run hot is a good thing either, but the heatplates do not add that much heat.

I think Nventiv and Asetek, BOTH use them in their end products for a reason, as well as my company, we always install them, and Ive sold more than 150 vaporcooled systems mach I & II and Vapochills XE and LS, in just the first quarter or this year, and not one has ever come back for condensation problems, which wasnt tampered with by the customer.

I used to think the exact same way as Gouda, until someone wise asked me....

"who do you think knows which is better, to use or not to use the heatplate, YOU, or the research and development of both Nventiv and Asetek?"

I still disagreed with the guy, and a week after I took off my heatplate, I fried my mobo... Id rather be safe than sorry...

Can you detail EXACTLY how your company installs the prometeia. My prometeia just ate my ic7-g. I followed the instructions on Tom's exactly.

EDIT: I was using the heating pad. I wasn't using anything not recommended by nventiv, that means no grease. I can't imagine that stuff is easy to clean up.

Double Edit:

My poor motherboard

Toms? as in Tomshardware guide? I read that site the directions are a little non specific to certain areas. Whats horrible though is that the Nventiv manual is even worse lol.

The silicon is not that hard to clean up with some isopropyl alcohol and q-tips, Ive removed all traces of it before *except* whats in the CPU pin holes. Basically the key method is to stick the non conductive, non acidic silicon inside the center of the CPU pins area, in the pinholes and spread it in the pin holes with your clean finger, slap the CPU in with the thermal paste already applied, add a ring of seal string on the cooling element base, put the cooling element onto the CPU and tighten the allen bolts on each side till very tight, then stick seal string on top of each bolt and as well as around the base of the cooling element and hose, I marked the blue areas where extra seal string should be applied, yellow areas where silicon should be applied, however I did not get a picture with the backside of the mobo where the silicon should be applied inside the heating element...the red areas I marked is where I put electrical tape to cover the screws just as a minor safety measure:

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/exempt-siliconhere.jpg

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/exempt-hereaswell.jpg

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/exempt-applyhereaswell.jpg

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/exempt-applyhere.jpg

On the heatplate on the back of the mobo, make sure to add a nice large clump where the wire for the molex connector comes out (the red wire), because you tend to move it around to plug it in and adjust it when closing the side panel on your case, and sometimes a small pocket can form allowing tiny amounts of air into the cell.

And as Ive said before, make sure that the silicon does not come into contact with any area where it directly touches the seal string, as it counteracts against the sealing properties of the seal string, also seal string cannot stick on any surface where silicon is at, so apply it in a semi cautious method, I use a artists rubber tipped fine paint brush on my personal setups and my employees use the same on customer setups. If you think there is a location where there could be a slight vulnerability for air to seep in, it doesnt hurt to add some more seal string, I just do my best to not cover up capacitors or transistors near the CPU, I know this is a little difficult as there are so many in the general area, but you can do it on all motherboards, and it allows the capacitors and transistors to breath a little. Any other questions lemme know, hope this helps some...