Help with Sub Decisions

[johan851]

I've been looking at getting a sub to go with my HKB6's. They're great, but of course they can't pick up the low end a sub does. I can definitely hear the sub missing at this point. I was looking at these two:

http://www.harmankardon.com/specifications.asp?cat=SUB&ser=&prod=HKSUB%2012&sType=

http://www.etronics.com/product.asp...tid=4203&store=

Which one would you recommend and why? I'd like to stay within the $200 price range, that's a must. Also, are there any other subs in the same range that are worth looking at?

[Maxvla]

both links are to the same sub

[johan851]

Fixed. :)

One is the 12" Harmon Kardon 150w Sub, and the other is the 10" 150w Velodyne.

[nealric]

I really like the subs from audiosource (i think amazon carries them)

I have the cheaper 10in 150watt version (paid $100, $150 retail), and while its not massively powerful, its a very clean and good sub- solidly built.
Im sure the 12in, 200watt version would be perfect.

[johan851]

*BUMP*

Anyone else?

[sandman001]

I'd go with the 10" velodyne

[stratcatprowlin]

The HK might be a great sub but Velodyne is known to make great subs where as HK is not known for subs specifically.

GO with the Velodyne.

[Maxvla]

i like mine :)

[johan851]

What do you like about it Maxvla? And wouldn't a 12" driver give the HK an edge? Not voting for one or the other...just curious.

[Maxvla]

thats like saying a 3.5ghz celeron is better than a 3ghz p4 :p

the velodyne is the better sub but its more expensive.

[Azzkiller]

thats like saying a 3.5ghz celeron is better than a 3ghz p4 :p

the velodyne is the better sub but its more expensive.

How do you know the Velodyne is better unless you heard both?

IMO, unless you have heard both, you shouldnt be saying one is better than the other.

While the HK has a larger woofer, without knowing anything else about the two subwoofers, that gives it the edge. But I havent heard either so I wont comment on which is the better model. ;)

If you have heard both please disregard my comments :D

[johan851]

thats like saying a 3.5ghz celeron is better than a 3ghz p4
That makes perfect sense. :)

Any good places to buy audio equipment? Besides Ebay?

[seamadan000]

While the HK has a larger woofer, without knowing anything else about the two subwoofers, that gives it the edge. But I havent heard either so I wont comment on which is the better model.

actually, that doesn't tell you too much without knowing the xmax, casue that and the size give you the swept area and the air moved, which are pretty good indications of how it will sound. Although there are many other factors of course...

[Azzkiller]

actually, that doesn't tell you too much without knowing the xmax, casue that and the size give you the swept area and the air moved, which are pretty good indications of how it will sound. Although there are many other factors of course...

This I know ;)

However, how many commercial subwoofer manufacturers are going to publish the true one way xmax of the speaker? I would be very surprised if you could get this information from either vendor.

At any rate, the Velodyne would have to have at least 50% more linear excursion to sweep more air than the HK.

The point I was trying to make is that unless you heard both, you cant really predict output or sound quality. The only objective data that we do know is that the HK has more bore. Now the Velodyne may have more than 50 percent more stroke, but we dont know that :D

[Maxvla]

How do you know the Velodyne is better unless you heard both?

IMO, unless you have heard both, you shouldnt be saying one is better than the other.

While the HK has a larger woofer, without knowing anything else about the two subwoofers, that gives it the edge. But I havent heard either so I wont comment on which is the better model. ;)

If you have heard both please disregard my comments :D
i'm going to double blind murder you jerry :p

[CPFitz14]

Smaller subs are also a little better Sound Quality wise.


-CPFitz-

[zabomb4163]

Azzkiller. i need some of your advice

my subwoofer is getting over excursion with way less than the rated rms max. what gives?

*edit* upon using a tone generator....my sub doesnt go very low at all. its tuned for a much higher frequency than i though =/ (i'm not going to say what frequency on open forum. its too insulting)

[Maxvla]

Azzkiller. i need some of your advice

my subwoofer is getting over excursion with way less than the rated rms max. what gives?

*edit* upon using a tone generator....my sub doesnt go very low at all. its tuned for a much higher frequency than i though =/ (i'm not going to say what frequency on open forum. its too insulting)
somewhere between 79hz and 81hz

[seamadan000]

However, how many commercial subwoofer manufacturers are going to publish the true one way xmax of the speaker? I would be very surprised if you could get this information from either vendor.

ahh, but life would be good.....


the good old velo may have the extra stroke, maybe. Also, do we know how big the boxes are, cause' that can help too...

[zabomb4163]

ahh, but life would be good.....


the good old velo may have the extra stroke, maybe. Also, do we know how big the boxes are, cause' that can help too...

HK subwoofer - "20-1/2" x 16" x 13-3/4"" (H x W x D) :

[Droban]

the 12 inch sub will hit those low frequencies with much more dB. I think the bass with 12 inch subs is much more enveloping, maybe not as punchy as a 10, but I would go with a 12.

[johan851]

The 10" Velodyne is $200, while the 12" Velodyne is $250 at etronics. Would the 12" be a better buy?

[seamadan000]

Also, how big is the room that this will be in? A smaller room will generally encance the low frequncies.

[johan851]

We're talking bedroom/dormroom size here. Nothing real big...hmm. Maybe 14'x14' or a little bigger? Not a living room or home theatre.

[seamadan000]

Then, in all honesty, I would just go with the cheaper one. In a room like that you are not going to need a huge or super powered sub to get high enough spl, and the room gain will help with the lower bass as well, especially if you can corner load the sub. If you are really into high quality music, then the velodyne would (probably and only speculatively on my part) provide a bit better sound for that. But for HT and gaming and rocking the HK will be more than enough. :) IMHO of course, but I think you would love both.

[Azzkiller]

Smaller subs are also a little better Sound Quality wise.


-CPFitz-

the 12 inch sub will hit those low frequencies with much more dB. I think the bass with 12 inch subs is much more enveloping, maybe not as punchy as a 10, but I would go with a 12.

Until you get to frequencies where the wavelength is close to the diameter of the diaphram, or the diaphram becomes non-pistonic, you wont have any advantages with a smaller diaphram. Both of these problems wont occur until well over 200hz, which is above the range which the subwoofer will be playing.

[Azzkiller]

Azzkiller. i need some of your advice

my subwoofer is getting over excursion with way less than the rated rms max. what gives?

*edit* upon using a tone generator....my sub doesnt go very low at all. its tuned for a much higher frequency than i though =/ (i'm not going to say what frequency on open forum. its too insulting)

Are you sure its over excuring? You have a W3 right? Try plugging the port and see how it sounds.

[stratcatprowlin]

SPeaking from experience, I can tell you that HK sounds like crap. Yes, it was properly tuned with an SPL meter.. and yes.. it still felt like crap. The amp is not powerful enough to drive that woofer and ug... stay away from it.

Seriously, the subwoofer from the klipsch promedia 5.1 sounds better than the HK.

Instead of just adding your negative opinion,why dont you recommend
something that you consider not to be "crap".?
I read your other posts and they seem to have the same tone as this one.
If you continue posting flamebait you wont last long here.

[DaFonz]

Again, I was stating my opinion. Anyways, recommendations for a cheap sub - see if you can find a D-box david 303 around (I don't know what stores are in your area). It'll run you less than $200 and is highly regarded as a good entry level sub.

here's why I don't like the HK:

It feels underpowered. Even when tuned to the right level, you can hear port noises as if the HK can't handle the creation of the bass. This was especially evident in the LOTR when the troll ran into the castle and he exploded. Other test scenes included the log scene in FD2 and the knock on the fish tank in Finding Nemo.

In music, it simply did not blend into my bookshelves at the time. I played with different crossovers and they did not help much. I played with different placements in my room, but the sub stilled sounded very directional... I couldn't figure it out.

I bought the sub because it was on clearance (800->$299) back when I didn't know much about audio equipment... thought it was a good deal, but should have done my research first.

[stratcatprowlin]

Excuse me? Could you please explain to me exactly what kind of tone I am speaking with? Do you seriously think that I am trying to start a flame war? There are much better ways to do it.

Your tone is that of a young annoying know it all and there are two members in this thread that own HK subs and Like them very much.You calling them "crap" is asking for flames.

[Azzkiller]

Excuse me? Could you please explain to me exactly what kind of tone I am speaking with? Do you seriously think that I am trying to start a flame war? There are much better ways to do it.

Again, I was stating my opinion. Anyways, recommendations for a cheap sub - see if you can find a D-box david 303 around (I don't know what stores are in your area). It'll run you less than $200 and is highly regarded as a good entry level sub.

here's why I don't like the HK:

It feels underpowered. Even when tuned to the right level, you can hear port noises as if the HK can't handle the creation of the bass. This was especially evident in the LOTR when the troll ran into the castle and he exploded. Other test scenes included the log scene in FD2 and the knock on the fish tank in Finding Nemo.

In music, it simply did not blend into my bookshelves at the time. I played with different crossovers and they did not help much. I played with different placements in my room, but the sub stilled sounded very directional... I couldn't figure it out.

I bought the sub because it was on clearance (800->$299) back when I didn't know much about audio equipment... thought it was a good deal, but should have done my research first.

Edit: If you really have a problem with me, PM me.

You've called Bose crap, HK crap, and Velodyne overpriced. This is your first day of posting on OC. Don't you think that may look just a LITTLE bit like a troll? Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but do you really need to make yours so negative? It's fine to say you don't like something, but do you need to call it crap?

Wouldnt you get a bit mad if I called m-audio crap?

[DaFonz]

Wouldnt you get a bit mad if I called m-audio crap?

No I wouldn't actually. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

However, point taken, I'll edit my posts. Truce?