question bout clamps

[mR|bUNgLe]

I read somewere that over tightning metal wormdrive clamps, can actualycause leaks.
How is this?
is it from cracks, or over sized tube folding?

mine are cranked pretty good but it doesnt seem to be leaking...now

How tight is to tight?

[thorilan]

the search feature is your friend

and yes they can as wurmdrive clamps can bite into soft tubing and cut through it under the actual drive

[RedViper]

Couple this with the fact that some people are saying that they're run without clamping devices and you have to wonder. ;)

[Albuquerque]

There's no reason to NOT clamp your hoses, but at the exact opposite, there's no reason to OVERclamp your hoses. Tightening your hoseclamps to 4000lbs/in^2 would seal your 1/2" silicon hose no better than about 2lb/in^2.

You need only to tighten them enough to stay put. If you have to tighten them any more to stop a leak, there is likely something else wrong either with the hose or the barb you're using.

[RedViper]

:) There's one huge reason not to clamp, the barbs you have simply may not require it. Why add complication if it isn't needed? If all the barbs in my loop were as well-designed as the ones on my res I wouldn't waste my time with nylon or screw clamps. And let's not forget, in our rush to a defacto "standard", that some hose types make adhesion to barbs much more secure by virtue of their stickiness.

[ZachM]

When I'm dealing with more or less $1K worth of computer equipment, I tend to take all precautions I can to prevent leaks. I don't think tubing clamps add enough complexity to warrant not bothering with them.

[squeakygeek]

When I'm dealing with more or less $1K worth of computer equipment, I tend to take all precautions I can to prevent leaks. I don't think tubing clamps add enough complexity to warrant not bothering with them.

Ditto. Hose barbs may not leak now, but you don't know that someone won't bump your computer... pull on a tube... whatever

[RedViper]

When I'm dealing with more or less $1K worth of computer equipment, I tend to take all precautions I can to prevent leaks. I don't think tubing clamps add enough complexity to warrant not bothering with them.

Understood, but I was in no way challenging your right to use whatever precautions you deem necessary. However, if something isn't needed it just isn't. On the contrary, I think they do add complexity, by definition. If you use the less dangerous nylon clamps you DO have to be careful in terms of placement along the barb and in the pressure you use to apply them. In spiral clamps you have all the POTENTIAL problems of nylon clamps with the added hazard of them being relatively easy to over-tighten.

AGAIN, you can use whatever you want. But if I can reduce the number of parts comprising my loop without loosing overall integrity and security, I will.

[squeakygeek]

I can reduce the number of parts comprising my loop without loosing overall integrity and security

Not by skipping hose clamps.

[Albuquerque]

se·cu·ri·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-kyr-t)
n. pl. se·cu·ri·ties

Freedom from risk or danger; safety.
Freedom from doubt, anxiety, or fear; confidence.
Something that gives or assures safety, as:
A group or department of private guards: Call building security if a visitor acts suspicious.
Measures adopted by a government to prevent espionage, sabotage, or attack.
Measures adopted, as by a business or homeowner, to prevent a crime such as burglary or assault: Security was lax at the firm's smaller plant.
Measures adopted to prevent escape: Security in the prison is very tight.
Something deposited or given as assurance of the fulfillment of an obligation; a pledge.
One who undertakes to fulfill the obligation of another; a surety.
A document indicating ownership or creditorship; a stock certificate or bond.


Emphasis mine... Hoseclamps are security, not using hoseclamps would definitely fit in the "less secure" category. All it could take is a good bump, shake, or a screw somehow backing loose and your reservoir tries to fall down and tugs against the hoses.

A clamp would keep it watertight in all scenarios. Not having a clamp, well, wouldn't...

As for complexity? A hoseclamp is no more complex than a pencil sharpener. It doesn't take a $50 torque wrench to know when you're clamping too tight, and it doesn't require a genious to figure out how to strap them to the proper point in the barb.

All my barbs are "barbed", and they all have hose clamps. I can quite literally pick up my entire watercooling system by the radiator and everything else will hang on by the hoses. This will never happen while it's running in my computer, but knowing that it has that kind of integrity to the system is quite calming to me. Especially when, as someone else mentioned, all that water is within several millimeters of the most expensive pieces in my computer.

[RedViper]

:p Geez! "And aliens might come down and shake my case upside down, so I MUST have clamps!!! And no one (in this open forum) should feel any different!!!" Guys, I use clamps, of both types. I'm just willing to entertain the idea, based on observation and engineering, that they might not be needed for a leak-free system. Hurried trips trips to dictionary.com and super-heated rhetoric won't change the way I think.

[squeakygeek]

:p Geez! "And aliens might come down and shake my case upside down, so I MUST have clamps!!! And no one (in this open forum) should feel any different!!!" Guys, I use clamps, of both types. I'm just willing to entertain the idea, based on observation and engineering, that they might not be needed for a leak-free system. Hurried trips trips to dictionary.com and super-heated rhetoric won't change the way I think.

Um yeah... a computer case falling over is such a far-fetched idea...

[greenman100]

:p Geez! "And aliens might come down and shake my case upside down, so I MUST have clamps!!! And no one (in this open forum) should feel any different!!!" Guys, I use clamps, of both types. I'm just willing to entertain the idea, based on observation and engineering, that they might not be needed for a leak-free system. Hurried trips trips to dictionary.com and super-heated rhetoric won't change the way I think.


what about Cathar running without hose clamps and then drenching his motherboard?

going to dig up the thread now

[Cathar]

what about Cathar running without hose clamps and then drenching his motherboard?

going to dig up the thread now

Mind you, I did have around 15PSI of pressure going into the block at the time.

For less highly powered systems (most everyone) that typically operate in the 2-3PSI range I do believe that one can usually get by without using clamps so long as the tubing is biting into the barb pretty well.

[RedViper]

Um yeah... a computer case falling over is such a far-fetched idea...

This is pathetic. How often do I have to say that I don't CARE what anyone else uses? For me, I'll keep an open mind. If this posture offends any of you then too bad.

Now that Cathar has said that barbs MAY not be needed, I'm waiting to see if you guys level some of your irrational attacks on him. Well?

BTW Cathar, I admire your oft-copied contributions to water-cooling. I hope I can find one of your blocks for my next refit. :thup:

[squeakygeek]

This is pathetic. How often do I have to say that I don't CARE what anyone else uses? For me, I'll keep an open mind. If this posture offends any of you then too bad.

Now that Cathar has said that barbs MAY not be needed, I'm waiting to see if you guys level some of your irrational attacks on him. Well?

BTW Cathar, I admire your oft-copied contributions to water-cooling. I hope I can find one of your blocks for my next refit. :thup:

ok, run your system without barbs and see what happens

haha

[greenman100]

For less highly powered systems (most everyone) that typically operate in the 2-3PSI range I do believe that one can usually get by without using clamps so long as the tubing is biting into the barb pretty well.


is $5 for clamps too much to insure against a fried $120 motherboard?

spend $150 to watercool, but $5 is too much to hold it all together...I have a lot of respect for you, Cathar, but I do not understand your decision to go without clamps for so long.

[RedViper]

ok, run your system without barbs and see what happens

haha

Can you read AND comprehend at the same time?

[squeakygeek]

Can you read AND comprehend at the same time?

Oh the irony :p read your post.

[Dredd]

Mind you, I did have around 15PSI of pressure going into the block at the time.

For less highly powered systems (most everyone) that typically operate in the 2-3PSI range I do believe that one can usually get by without using clamps so long as the tubing is biting into the barb pretty well.


i agree, i don't use clamps, BUT once my hose is on you can't pull it off ;)

i have to cut the hose away, so clamps will not help me

really down to the user, and what tubing you are using.

(hmm i need to sleep ;) )

[RedViper]

Oh the irony :p read your post.

To avoid any more disjointed BS why don't you just explain what you're talking about?

[ukdan]

As dredd said, type of tubing is a factor in clampless fittings imo. Tygon tubing (in my experience) is like a kids puzzle i once saw - the puzzle was a braided tube that you put 1 finger each end and when you try to pull your fingers out the tube tightens on your finger. obviously if you haven't seen this puzzle you wont know what im talking about but i find tygon has the same quality. do you see what im trying to say? lol

[Cyberwiz01]

This is pathetic. How often do I have to say that I don't CARE what anyone else uses? For me, I'll keep an open mind. If this posture offends any of you then too bad.

Now that Cathar has said that barbs MAY not be needed, I'm waiting to see if you guys level some of your irrational attacks on him. Well?

BTW Cathar, I admire your oft-copied contributions to water-cooling. I hope I can find one of your blocks for my next refit. :thup:

Just so we are all on the same page here ;)

RedViper, of course you have the right to your own opinion. But if someone strongly feels that they need the extra bit of assurance, there is nothing wrong with that. Is it NEEDED? Possibly not, but maybe under certain circumstances, it is. There is nothing wrong with either viewpoint, and there is nothing wrong with defending your own viewpoint, just keep in mind that we are all friends here, and respect is a very important part of these forums.

[greenman100]

Can you read AND comprehend at the same time?
Oh the irony :p read your post.

pwned

<edit>

This comment was not neccessary. I said it out of frustration, but it only fed a growing flamefest. I have learned from it and will work on my responses in the future.

[RedViper]

Just so we are all on the same page here ;)

First "irony" from a person who doesn't appear to understand how to use the word on context, now this. Pretty stupid dude.

[RedViper]

pwned

You can't even form a coherent sentence, much less a thought to back it up greeny. You get owned every time you type something. :)

(warning: Stop the picking now because you, and the mods, are not going to like the way I fight back. I'm not here to flame and otherwise screw with people. I left grade-school a LONG time ago.)

[RedViper]

Just so we are all on the same page here ;)

RedViper, of course you have the right to your own opinion. But if someone strongly feels that they need the extra bit of assurance, there is nothing wrong with that. Is it NEEDED? Possibly not, but maybe under certain circumstances, it is. There is nothing wrong with either viewpoint, and there is nothing wrong with defending your own viewpoint, just keep in mind that we are all friends here, and respect is a very important part of these forums.

Friends don't pick on each other. Friends share jokes and have fun, but they don't so in a mean or otherwise annoying way. Now, read these and tell me why you bothered to say any of this?




There's one huge reason not to clamp, the barbs you have simply may not require it. Why add complication if it isn't needed? If all the barbs in my loop were as well-designed as the ones on my res I wouldn't waste my time with nylon or screw clamps. And let's not forget, in our rush to a defacto "standard", that some hose types make adhesion to barbs much more secure by virtue of their stickiness.

Understood, but I was in no way challenging your right to use whatever precautions you deem necessary. However, if something isn't needed it just isn't. On the contrary, I think they do add complexity, by definition. If you use the less dangerous nylon clamps you DO have to be careful in terms of placement along the barb and in the pressure you use to apply them. In spiral clamps you have all the POTENTIAL problems of nylon clamps with the added hazard of them being relatively easy to over-tighten.

AGAIN, you can use whatever you want. But if I can reduce the number of parts comprising my loop without loosing overall integrity and security, I will.
Geez! "And aliens might come down and shake my case upside down, so I MUST have clamps!!! And no one (in this open forum) should feel any different!!!" Guys, I use clamps, of both types. I'm just willing to entertain the idea, based on observation and engineering, that they might not be needed for a leak-free system. Hurried trips to dictionary.com and super-heated rhetoric won't change the way I think.



Note, a few people, including Cathar said, the same things I did. And they weren't jumped by the forum goon squad. I was in no way rude about what I said either. Now, tell me where you get off thinking >I< need a lecture based on the quote above? Be careful if you choose to replay. Address me the same way YOU want to be addressed. And I'm assuming that that's as something more than a child. Okay?

BTW, isn't this a water-cooling forum?

[greenman100]

Stop the picking now because you, and the mods, are not going to like the way I fight back.


lol what is the meaning of this ^ :confused:

when you come in to tell people not to secure their hoses and then argue about it, potientally giving advice that will wreck hundreds of dollars of equipment, then go on to say BARBS are not neccessary, you will get "picked" on.

RedViper, YGPM

[Dredd]

l

when you come in to tell people not to secure their hoses and then argue about it, potientally giving advice that will wreck hundreds of dollars of equipment, then go on to say BARBS are not neccessary, you will get "picked" on.


not telling people, its his own view.

people have brains, if tubing falling off barbs really easy add clamps, but if you can't pull the tubing off, you don't need barb ;)

the end :beer:

back to guys question,
if its been running like that for around 3/4 weeks with no problems your ok

How tight is to tight?
if you can pull tubing off easy make it tighter, but stop when you can't pull tubing off :cool:


not really a hard question, this thread should never become this :(

[DeViL_909]

Ok guys its time to let it go. Basically it is a wise investment to use hose clamps. Many people feel that they help prevent leaks and they have very good reason and proof to believe so. The barbs are made to seal the hose and prevent leaks, so yes you could go without clamps. For a low matience/worry free system I would strongly suggest hose clamps. But again it is your money and your system. All the fighting and name calling needs to stop here and now. Opinions are welcomed, but what this post has been reduced to is not.

[RedViper]

lol what is the meaning of this ^ :confused:

when you come in to tell people not to secure their hoses and then argue about it, potientally giving advice that will wreck hundreds of dollars of equipment, then go on to say BARBS are not neccessary, you will get "picked" on.

RedViper, YGPM

I didn't tell you not to do ANYTHING, dude. Prove where I did, RIGHT NOW or we're going to take this to the mods. I don't want to wade through the CRAP people like you generate just to share what I know and learn. I said PICKED AT, son. You don't have the stature to PICK ON me. Now, AGAIN, PROVE I told you what to use, NOW. And keep your PMs, you started this in the open, now let's finish it in the open.



AGAIN, you can use whatever you want. But if >I< can reduce the number of parts comprising >my< loop without loosing overall integrity and security, >I<
will.



Too slow. You were both dead wrong and selective in your "anger." The problem is you weren't man (?) enough to admit it. You embarassed yourself and thought you could take it out on me. Next time stay on topic, if you can, and keep the personal stuff to yourself, greenman100.

[greenman100]

lol, they're hose clamps, relax.

[David]

The bickering stops now. Period. Before I get a mod to come in here and nuke the thread. There is no need for it. Whether you use clamps or not is personal preference and there is no need to start a flamewar over it.

Petty arguments do not further discussion.

Now lets all relax. Please.

[RedViper]

lol, they're hose clamps, relax.

They weren't "just hose clamps" a moment ago. If fact, I was The Devil, telling anyone who would listen not to use "hose clamps" just so they would destroy their machines. There was no "lol" then. You >lied< about what I said, and then couldn't be bothered to even go back and look through this STUPID thread to prove anything you accused me of saying.



lol what is the meaning of this ^

when you come in to tell people not to secure their hoses and then argue about it, potientally giving advice that will wreck hundreds of dollars of equipment, then go on to say BARBS are not neccessary, you will get "picked" on.

RedViper, YGPM



No nervous giggling and acting strange. PROVE where I said any such thing or shut up and leave me alone. You STARTED this, because either you can't read all that well or you just like BS.

To the people trying to referee: If this guy lied about something you said would it be "okay?"

[RedViper]

The bickering stops now. Period. Before I get a mod to come in here and nuke the thread. There is no need for it. Whether you use clamps or not is personal preference and there is no need to start a flamewar over it.

Petty arguments do not further discussion.

Now lets all relax. Please.

This may be petty for YOU, but I think that's because these guys didn't try to act like Einstein's and Hero's at your expense. Do what you have to, but I'm not going to pretend like this sort of juvenile crap is okay. It isn't.

[David]

Ok, second time I will say this. If you have a problem with something someone has said, take it up in PM. Do not throw accusations around and start arguments in a thread because this thread is being derailed with bickering.

The best post in this thread yet was this:

RedViper, of course you have the right to your own opinion. But if someone strongly feels that they need the extra bit of assurance, there is nothing wrong with that. Is it NEEDED? Possibly not, but maybe under certain circumstances, it is. There is nothing wrong with either viewpoint, and there is nothing wrong with defending your own viewpoint, just keep in mind that we are all friends here, and respect is a very important part of these forums.


Now, please. RedViper calm down. We don't need this in the forums. If you have a problem deal with it in PM. If you still have a problem, Pm a mod. Although I intend to make sure a mod is here to deal with this thread soon.

EDIT:

This may be petty for YOU, but I think that's because these guys didn't try to act like Einstein's and Hero's at your expense. Do what you have to, but I'm not going to pretend like this sort of juvenile crap is okay. It isn't.


YGPM.

EDIT AGAIN:
There is no single person at fault here, the silly comments are really out of place, as is the angry response.

[SpeeDj]

This is your last warning, enough with the flaming, I will give you a nice three day vacation if I am greeted by another reported post authored by you. Are we clear ?

Do it again regardless of how stupid you may find their response and you will be the one getting the vacation, this behaviour is not tolerated.

J :mad:

[Malpine Walis]

Yah guys, how about stepping back from this thread for a moment of silent reflection. You are arguing about hose clamps. FFS, why? Is it actually all that important?

[tehnull]

LoL it's obviously quite important :-P

[sandman001]

It's important, but Calm down will you.

Yelling gets much less accomplished than talking. If it doesn't leak while you leak test (which you should do), then you're most likely ok. IF you really want to be sure, put some hose clamps on it. If your friend doesn't use hose clamps and it leaks, it isn't your loss.

Be like your computer and cool off. :)

[Silversinksam]

This may be petty for YOU, but I think that's because these guys didn't try to act like Einstein's and Hero's at your expense. Do what you have to, but I'm not going to pretend like this sort of juvenile crap is okay. It isn't.

I warned you yesterday in another thread about Rule #1 (http://www.ocforums.com/announcement.php?f=66) as did SpeedyDJ and a slew of seniors and members in this thread.

Enjoy your 3 day vacation. :-/

[DeViL_909]

Thanks for stepping in guys, it was getting a little crazzy in here. Would you all mind cleaning this thread up and deleting all the unneeded post? Could be important for some people and they should not have to go through all this mess to find the good stuff. Thanks again.

-JS

[Malpine Walis]

Well, I cannot speak for the mods but there is some mileage to be gained from leaving these alone once in a while. They serve as reminders of what not to do...

[enlightend]

What if the fans on the radiator suddenly fail, causing the circulating water to heat up...

and when the water starts to get hot, the seemlingly tight tubing attached to the hose barbs might slip off.

So even if you think that it's a tight fit and will never come off, there's always an uncertainty.

BTW, it is possible to purchase smooth worm gears, and constant torque worm gears. Both minimize the risk of cutting through your tubing.

There's every reason to use clamps and NO reason not to (unless ur Cathar :D ).

[greenman100]

Well, I cannot speak for the mods but there is some mileage to be gained from leaving these alone once in a while. They serve as reminders of what not to do...


I agree, I learned a lot from it, and there's a comment I would like to take back, but there is no point in editing it because it was quoted later on.

[David]

I agree, I learned a lot from it, and there's a comment I would like to take back, but there is no point in editing it because it was quoted later on.

It might be a good idea to edit it with an apology anyway. Even though it was quoted, it shows that you have taken back the comment.

Thanks
David

[Etacovda]

I wouldnt ever run my system without hoseclamps. When i leak test my waterblocks, I put them up to a garden hose, and block off the outlet of the block... When i remove the hose, it sounds like a car tire deflating. The tubing doesnt have to come off to cause a leak - if you put sideways torque on the hosing, without it sliding up the barb at all, it leaks... with a hose clamp, i can swing the block around by the hose and it wont leak.

Short answer - w/o clamps, youre risking leaks, whether the tubing comes off or not...

[Albuquerque]

Hey, that's exactly what I was saying way earlier on in the thread. There are any number of TONS of things that could possibly go wrong in a WC scenario. I was initially talking about bumps or loose screws or whatever else, someone mentioned overheating and I hadn't even thought of that...

There are WAY too many reasons to use hoseclamps, and basically NO reason I can think of to NOT use hoseclamps. Let's go over the pro's and cons:

Pros of using hoseclamps in your WC system:
They're cheap at $0.59 per pair at my local Lowes for the metal ones, and even cheaper for the plastic zip-tie ones
They're easy and very quick to install
Once installed, you're protected against anything to do with that hose coming lose from the barb
They never need adjustment

Cons of using hoseclamps in your WC system
If you have no common sense and tighten them to a zillion pound-feet, you can potentially damage the hose
If you have no common sense and tighten them on the very top of the barb, they can crimp the hose
You could have used that $4 for a Big Mac meal instead of hose clamps


I think the list of Pro's far outweighs the list of Con's, but that's my opinion and I'm allowed :)

[mribnik]

I guess I'll chime in...

My first watercooling rig hasn't been built yet, but I DID buy clamps. Why? No reason not to.

[wfarid]

hmm, now that i read all that i think i have to respond.

EVERYONE is right...







now end this thread...

[mR|bUNgLe]

damn Im sorry all I wanted to know was how tight is to tight
wow didnt mean to start fires here
but at least I got the answer I was looking for :)

[greenman100]

It might be a good idea to edit it with an apology anyway. Even though it was quoted, it shows that you have taken back the comment.

Thanks
David


Done