View Full Version : heatsink for maxi jet
tehnull
07-18-04, 03:34 PM
Would putting a heatsink on the back end of my maxi-jet where it has that epoxy looking stuff help keep it cool at all? I'll have an 80mm fan blowing on it.
Vengance_01
07-18-04, 06:14 PM
probally not, as the heat will still be dumped into the water.
greenman100
07-18-04, 06:44 PM
he hsaid heatsink, and it will make no noticeable difference in temps, as the epoxy ont he pump does not conduct well
Senater_Cache
07-18-04, 07:07 PM
try it and TELL US
IMO
tehnull
07-18-04, 07:09 PM
It's not to lower water temps it's to lower the temps of the pump as it actually gets hot enough to burn if you touch it for extended periods of time. I've heard Max-Jets tend to uhm up and die so I kinda wanna make it last until I upgrade.
Senater_Cache
07-18-04, 07:13 PM
That is a question nobody herecould possibly know the answer to as it is practically un-measurable.
You should try it and if you like the look of it (looks being the only advantage I see being gained from this) then show us a pic.
I tightly clad mine in copper sheet to shield the EMI being picked up by my video card, and that had the side benefit of cooling the pump somewhat.
I added some thermal goop under it to help conduct the heat better, and used several wraps of electrical tape to tension the copper until the JBWeld on the overlapped section dried. Quite a tight fit.
I then hammered the extra 1/4" of sheeting over on each end, to seal in copper pieces that I'd cut to fit.
It felt cooler, but I'd never measured it. It surely wasn't hot enough to burn or anything.
I can't vouch for how it may or may not have helped longevity, when the outdoor temps here rose, I switched back to using my basement heatercore...don't know how you ambient cooling guys can stand it :D
*And by the way, if you can touch your pump, and it feels hot, then it is in fact conducting heat through the epoxy and plastics, and is NOT dumping all the heat into the water. Only a submerged pump can do that...
tehnull
07-19-04, 04:19 PM
I havn't gotten around to doing it yet still trying to lap my whitewater and failing. This thing is nowhere near flat and the lowest grit sandpaper I have is 400. Ouch my poor arm :(
greenman100
07-19-04, 05:18 PM
How did this improve cooling?
Does not sound like surface area was increased
copper acts as insulation, as heat must transgfer through it as well
and the thermal conductivity of electrical tape?
I tightly clad mine in copper sheet to shield the EMI being picked up by my video card, and that had the side benefit of cooling the pump somewhat.
I added some thermal goop under it to help conduct the heat better, and used several wraps of electrical tape to tension the copper until the JBWeld on the overlapped section dried. Quite a tight fit.
I then hammered the extra 1/4" of sheeting over on each end, to seal in copper pieces that I'd cut to fit.
It felt cooler, but I'd never measured it. It surely wasn't hot enough to burn or anything.
I can't vouch for how it may or may not have helped longevity, when the outdoor temps here rose, I switched back to using my basement heatercore...don't know how you ambient cooling guys can stand it :D
*And by the way, if you can touch your pump, and it feels hot, then it is in fact conducting heat through the epoxy and plastics, and is NOT dumping all the heat into the water. Only a submerged pump can do that...
Nah, buddy.
I used electrical tape just for it's springiness. The copper wrapped around the pump with a 1/2" of overlap to spare, and a 1/4" at each end. In the 1/2" overlap area, I placed JBWeld to secure the two ends together, and the tape held it tight while the epoxy cured, and then was removed.
I used copper because it was handy, and it absorbs and releases heat to air better than other metals (as it does so well in heatsinks), it's not insulating. Admittedly the copper I used was fairly thin, but so is a WW base. I didn't need it to spread heat out, but to transfer it to the air better than the pump's plastic can.
The airflow in the case took care of the rest.
Add a little wire for grounding, and the EMI was no longer a problem either.
greenman100
07-19-04, 06:18 PM
Nah, buddy.
I used electrical tape just for it's springiness. The copper wrapped around the pump with a 1/2" of overlap to spare, and a 1/4" at each end. In the 1/2" overlap area, I placed JBWeld to secure the two ends together, and the tape held it tight while the epoxy cured, and then was removed.
I used copper because it was handy, and it absorbs and releases heat to air better than other metals (as it does so well in heatsinks), it's not insulating. Admittedly the copper I used was fairly thin, but so is a WW base. I didn't need it to spread heat out, but to transfer it to the air better than the pump's plastic can.
The airflow in the case took care of the rest.
Add a little wire for grounding, and the EMI was no longer a problem either.
LOL
jaydee got moderated for telling a senior member (you?) that you were wrong
I willl refrain
Been wrong before, be wrong again ;)
I'm not under any protection that I know of, so feel free.
Where was jaydee's post?..didn't see it.
greenman100
07-19-04, 06:46 PM
Been wrong before, be wrong again ;)
I'm not under any protection that I know of, so feel free.
Where was jaydee's post?..didn't see it.
9 months ago, he told you brass and alu will react, and showed pictures
you see, copper cannot possibly help, so it is insulating.
pump---> air
pump--->TIM---->copper---->air
it is not increasing the surface area for heat transfer
would a hotplate get any colder if you threw a piece of copper on top of it? no.
I see your point, and you may well be right. I have no temp monitoring gear..I only have the feel of it to go by, and that (as I've said before) is as accurate as Abit's temp sensors.
The point of the copper, as I'd said, was to stop the EMI. It gave the side benefit of "seeming" cooler.
As for jaydee, he was right. I'd had no idea they would react to each other like copper would have, and was proven wrong, which is fine by me. Helps me help others.
I'd forgotten all about that thread, but not the lesson. :beer:
tehnull
07-20-04, 07:06 PM
Greenman are you saying that if I epoxy a heatsink to the epoxy backing on my pump that it won't lower the temperature of the pump at all and if so what proof do you have to back this up?
greenman100
07-21-04, 02:25 PM
heatsink != copper sheet
copper sheet wrapped tightly does not increase surface area
heatsink does
Senater_Cache
07-21-04, 03:30 PM
Greenman are you saying that if I epoxy a heatsink to the epoxy backing on my pump that it won't lower the temperature of the pump at all and if so what proof do you have to back this up?
Are you kidding??
Do you really expect a heatsink attached WITH epoxy TO epoxy, to do anything than alter the appearance of the pump?
Who told you epoxy was any kind of TIM ?
Honestly, Greenman needs to show you no proof whatsoever as this is a discussion not even worth having.
epoxy + epoxy = thick layer of epoxy (plastic).I see no thermal interface properties there buddy.
Maybe I am wrong but I have never heard of epoxy transfering heat well.
back on topic... to cool your pump's housing submerge it or have a fan blow at it.
SenC.
tehnull
07-21-04, 04:21 PM
So you're saying that epoxy doesn't conduct heat?
Graystar
07-21-04, 04:36 PM
So you're saying that epoxy doesn't conduct heat?
Epoxy, with its W/cm-K of .002, and even thermally conductive epoxy, with its W/cm-K of .008, are considered thermal insulators, not thermal conductors.
http://www.mininglife.com/Miner/general/thermalconductivity.htm
Senater_Cache
07-21-04, 04:45 PM
So you're saying that epoxy doesn't conduct heat?
no I am not.
Epoxy conducts heat as does almost anything.
What I am saying is that I dont think that the epoxy will conduct enough heat for the heatsink to help in cooling your pump. Two layers of epoxy will work even less likely.
As I said earlier in the thread, Just try it and tell us.
My bet is that the experiment will yield results that you will not be able to measure without any sensitive equipment.
Adding a heatsink to an area that is not considered a cooling neccessity even by the manufacturer of the product (who will have to deal with warranties), is pointless.
That Miniscule gain of heat transfer into the air you are modding to gain, will IMO not help your pump's lifetime whatsoever. I think that it will actually shorten it (not by much), as you are further insulating and robbing the pump of any airflow it may have at the heatsource, via added layers of epoxy and metal.
To protect your pump from heat-issues either submerge it or have the fan blow directly at it.
SenC.
tehnull
07-21-04, 04:46 PM
# Epoxy .002
# Thermally conductive epoxy .008
# Glass .008
# Heat sink compound (metal oxide loaded grease) .004
greenman100
07-21-04, 04:59 PM
# Epoxy .002
# Thermally conductive epoxy .008
# Glass .008
# Heat sink compound (metal oxide loaded grease) .004
1 inch of .002w/cmk epoxy vs. .01mm of .008 epoxy is not comparable
if you had an inch of AS5 between your core and heatsink, your temps would suck, too
point is, heatsink will help temps
not enough to notice
Honestly, Greenman needs to show you no proof whatsoever as this is a discussion not even worth having.
:thup:
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