Radiator/Heatercore

Well..what exactly is the difference, the gist that im getting is that heatercores [generally] perform better and take up less room.
Physically, as far as i can see heatercores are more cubed in form and have heatpipes(?) coming out of the sides.

What else? Also, any recommendations on what to go for?


Cheers

A heatercore is a little radiator. Thats it.

An evaporator is the one with heaps of passes in it. Radiators generally have one or 2.

well, most radiators for use in watercooling are generally constructed with rounded copper or aluminum tubes that run through a series of 180 degree bends. The round tubing has either copper or alumimum fins attached to it to dissipate heat. This method of construction is alright but it offers only one flow path for the coolant, limited surface area for contact between the coolant and the metal and a fairly heavy flow hit due to all of the 120 degree bends in the tubing.

on the other hand, heatercores are normally designed with a top tank and a bottom tank - between the two tanks, they have a finned core area that has a series of thin, flat channels that allows water to flow between the tanks. Dual pass cores usually have 6 or so channels for water flow to move through the core (12 or so channels in total but only 6 for flow in each direction) where single pass cores have around 12 channels for flow straight thru the core. The thin, flat channel design provides more surface area for contact between the coolant and the metal. The insides of the fins on most cores are also slit-finned to increase the surface area for contact between the metal and air. Due to their design, heatercores are more efficient than the usual rad designs and they have a lower flowrate hit.

for a better explanation of single pass vs. dual pass heatercores, check this:
http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=2961959&postcount=6

Good stuff thanks very much
Living in Belgium however all i have found so far are radiators, we just dont have the opportunity to run down to the salvage yard and grab a HC, so i have to order online.

Would, say, a 6x120mm fan radiator (push/pull config) outperform a heatercore?

envy said:

Good stuff thanks very much
Living in Belgium however all i have found so far are radiators, we just dont have the opportunity to run down to the salvage yard and grab a HC, so i have to order online.

Would, say, a 6x120mm fan radiator (push/pull config) outperform a heatercore?

Click to expand...

I'd probably say that it would... Depending on the heater-core. I'd say it would outperform any heater-core commonly found in water-cooling, but that's just a guess. Ask nikhsub, he has a 3.120 rad.

If you have any local radiator shops around, drop buy and ask if they have any old heatercores laying around they want to sell, worked well for me when I did this here at home

Raypundo said:

If you have any local radiator shops around, drop buy and ask if they have any old heatercores laying around they want to sell, worked well for me when I did this here at home

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He's in belgium... No heater's in the cars IIRC. That means no heater-cores.

envy said:

Good stuff thanks very much
Would, say, a 6x120mm fan radiator (push/pull config) outperform a heatercore?

Click to expand...

depends on the heatercore you are talking about.

would a 6x120mm radiator outperform...say, an 8x120mm heatercore?
no.



back to the world of sane heatercores.

depending on how the rad was made, the materials, the pump you are using (pushing water thru a rad that big is going to be a pain), I would think that a 6 x 120 rad could hang with most heatercores.

That thing is an abomination against god weapon. But to stay on subject I've heard good things about the 120.3 thermochill rad. Although it looks alot like a heater core to me.

They (rad/hc) are possible descriptions for the same object. A radiator is more of a description than an object... a heatercore is a form of a radiator that's intended to provide heat for an automobile's heating system. We use them because of their convenient size. An engine radiator is still a radiator... A thermochill radiator, is... well... a radiator.

It's like, if you hear someone ask, what's better, Karate or Martial Arts? =p.
What's better, Cheverolets or Automobiles...

you get my point?

What's more toxic? H20 or dihydrogen monoxide?

Cyrix_2k said:

What's more toxic? H20 or dihydrogen monoxide?

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Those are the same thing... In the examples above, one object is a subcategory of the other. It would be more like green dyed h20 vs a mysterious green liquid. I would'nt drink the second.

vonkaar said:

They (rad/hc) are possible descriptions for the same object. A radiator is more of a description than an object... a heatercore is a form of a radiator that's intended to provide heat for an automobile's heating system. We use them because of their convenient size. An engine radiator is still a radiator... A thermochill radiator, is... well... a radiator.

It's like, if you hear someone ask, what's better, Karate or Martial Arts? =p.
What's better, Cheverolets or Automobiles...

you get my point?

Click to expand...

outside of H2O cooling systems intended for computers I would entirely agree with that. Once in the land of computer H2O systems, the names usually referred to a specific design for the heat exchanger (although the distinction is starting to vanish as more companies produce rads that are based on heatercore designs). Up until recently, heatercores = heatercores where radiators = a tubed/finned creature that would suck the life from your flowrate. Most radiators were somewhat like transmission coolers or the like...those days are quickly vanishing (fortunately). The convenient size was not the primary reason I began using heatercores - the fact that they could be fit in a case nicely was a secondary bonus. I started using heatercores because they had better flowrates than the other options that were available at the time and they had fin density that made getting air thru them less of a hassle.

It's still apples and orchards...

The statement, "I'm not using a heatercore, I'm using a radiator," shouldn't be made.

vonkaar said:

It's still apples and orchards...

The statement, "I'm not using a heatercore, I'm using a radiator," shouldn't be made.

Click to expand...

well, if you want to get into a semantic argument just for the hell of it...

ra·di·a·tor - n.
1. A heating device consisting of a series of connected pipes, typically inside an upright metal structure, through which steam or hot water is circulated so as to radiate heat into the surrounding space.
2. A cooling device, as in automotive engines, through which water or other fluids circulate as a coolant.
3. Physics. A body that emits radiation.
4. A transmitting antenna.

As for heatercores, scratch the first (and most common) definition as they do not have a series of connected pipes...they have pipes leading to them but no pipes inside (trust me, I have hacked up several with a dremel just to see what was really lurking inside the core)
pipe - n.
1. A hollow cylinder or tube used to conduct a liquid, gas, or finely divided solid.

no such creatures in a heatercore...

As for the second definition of radiator, almost anything could be classified as a radiator provided that you can run water or another coolant through it and it produces any cooling effect whatsoever. hmmm...you could take piece of fresh fruit, hollow it out, tap it for some 3/8npt x 1/2 barb fittings, slap a 80mm fan on it and it would fit the second definition of radiator.

Q: do you use a rad or a heatercore to cool your loop?
--no, I'm not using a heatercore to cool my CPU -- I use a grapefruit that I hollowed out, drilled and tapped for barbed fittings and bolted an 80mm fan thereto....
Q:a grapefruit?
--well, it was a grapefruit - now it's a radiator.


moving right along...

heat·er core - n. - a water-to-air heat exchanger that provides heat to the passenger compartment airstream. Hot coolant from the engine circulates through the channels in the heater core.

hmmmm. I hope no one was silly enough to yank a radiator out of the front of their vehicle and bolt it under their dashboard...a radiator might be a heatercore then.

a strict reading of the definitions:
1. a heatercore is not a radiator as it lacks tubes (which are a prerequisite for the most commonly used defintion of radiator).
2. Under the second definition...well, I think the grapefruit covered that.
3. Third definition - holy all-encompassing definition from he11 --- I suppose my cell phone is even a radiator under that definition as it most certainly emits radiation. I doubt I will be plugging the cell phone into my cooling loop any time soon though -- that job is already being handled nicely by a hollowed-out grapefruit.
4. transmitting antenna....my heatercore had better not be sending messages to big brother. nah, my core is a '77, they only send messages to big brother if you use one that was made in 1984

hehe is this horse dead yet or should the master here take a swing or 2 at it =)

lol

This is so stupid...

Three types of heat transfer: Convection, Conduction and Radiation.

If I had a device that was DESIGNED to TRANSFER thermal energy via CONDUCTION, it could be called a CONDUCTOR.
If I have a device that was DESIGNED to TRANSFER thermal energy via RADIATION, it could be called a radiator.

Another definition of a 'radiator' (via my 1984 New American):

Radiator n. Any of various devices for cooling an internal substance by radiation.

REGARDLESS OF CONSTRUCTION. ANY device. Even if was MAGICAL. Heater cores fall in this 'class' of 'cooling device'. What's the difference between a heater core and a transmission cooler? NOW bring up construction and/or purpose. They are STILL radiators.

Having tubes does not define a 'radiator'. A radiator simply describes the process by which heat energy is transfered. If I had a device that cooled lard by radiation and it was made out of green-onions and Lincoln Logs, it could still be called a RADIATOR. A heatercore could be made out of llama hair but if it still 'cooled an internal substance by RADIATION,' it could be called a heatercore, which is also a radiator.

In conclusion:

lol.
you are missing the point. in almost an specific field, terminology develops whereby certain terms come to mean certain things to those in the field (i.e. common usage in the field). That is how words come to have different definitions (which are usually somewhat related but also a bit different).

In the area of watercooling - common usage of radiator refers to (or at least it used to refer to) heat exchangers like transmission coolers or the old be-cooling or DD cubes that had a small tube that made a massive number of 180 degree bends through out a series of fins to cool the water. Almost every radiator used in water cooling was like that for some time. Hence, the word radiator became used to describe a heat exchanger with those characteristics. Later, some companies took transmission cooler-like heat exchangers and slapped metal covers over them, added mounting methods and paint and called these creatures radiators as well. still, they had a single tube (mostly copper ones) that made a single path through a series of fins -- this time, it was just more pleasing to the eye.

then, we got to the point to where someone decided to plug in a heatercore from some type of vehicle and it worked damn well...more and more watercooling enthusiasts followed and before long, most were using them.
What were they again? Heater cores from cars or trucks - no one was going into AutoZone, walking to the front desk and asking for a radiator to bolt into their cases - they were asking for heater cores because that is how that particular device was known in the world of watercooling (and the auto world for that matter) -- contrast that with the single path/finned devices that everyone already referred to as radiators. Obviously, labeling one as a radiator and one as a heater core may not have been entirely correct under the definition provided in Websters (esp. if you use the common meaning in a particular field like physics) Still, that is how they were labeled and that is how we have come to distinguish between the 2 types of heat exchangers.

Characteristics commonly associated with heater cores in water cooling:
1. Low cost, high performance
2. Multiple flow paths with lower flow resistance
3. A nice way to mod out your own heat exchanger from a variety of shapes and sizes that were available at almost any auto parts store.

The definition of heater core in water cooling would be something that encompasses the above where the definition of radiator would likely one that refers to a device with a single tube running thru a series of fins/single flow path.

As far as apples and orchards go, using definitions from outside the particular area you are dealing with is likely just that. One quick return to a previously used definition makes this point clear:

tube - (toob, tyoob) - n.
1a. A hollow cylinder, especially one that conveys a fluid or functions as a passage.
1b. An organic structure having the shape or function of a tube; a duct: a bronchial tube.
2. A small flexible cylindrical container sealed at one end and having a screw cap at the other, for pigments, toothpaste, or other paste-like substances.
3. Music. The cylindrical part of a wind instrument.
4. Electronics. a. An electron tube. b. A vacuum tube.
5. Botany. The lower, cylindrical part of a gamopetalous corolla or a gamosepalous calyx.

the definition of a tube depends heavily upon the field in which the word is being used the same applies to heater cores and radiators.

As far as heater cores are concerned, the definition refers to a particular part from a auto's climate control system that has now been adapted for use in a cooling loop. does it radiate? most definitely. However, if you call it a radiator, I suspect that most in the land of water cooling will respond with "nope, that is a heater core" - because that is the accepted usage in the particular field.

anyone object to an official adoption of heatercore to mean heatercore and radiator to mean the single path heat exchangers? Fair warning: if you object to it, you are going to have an uphill battle all the way because those are already the commonly accepted meanings in computer watercooling.

Wow... you are really splitting hairs here.

A heater core is a radiator, by definition. If a particular field, demographic or cult wants to call it a flimflangol, go for it. By 'popular' definition in the engineering, scientific and mystical sense, any device regardless of construction that transfers thermal energy of an internal volume by way of radiation is a radiator. Construction doesn't matter. You can draw differences based on whatever criteria you want. It doesn't change the simple fact that a heatercore IN OUR FIELD is used to transfer thermal energy by radiation. That makes it a radiator.

For convenience, keep on calling all other radiators a radiator and a heater core a heater core. If we discover new and improved 'forms' of radiators, you can keep splitting the 'sub' categories down into infinity. Oil-bath coolers are the new pink! Everyone use them, they are sooo effecient! It's still a radiator. For convenience, call it an oil-bath core, call a heater core a heater core, and everything else is a radiator. Technically speaking, they all fall within the category of 'radiators' by definition. Cool by radiation, congrats, you are radiator.